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DDOSing In Scape


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You can connect to someone else network via the worldwide web, in a way not dissimilar to how proxies work you don't have to be in range or plugged in.

 

Duh. That's what everyone saying you're wrong has been saying, but your argument is so convoluted and broken nobody knows exactly what you're saying. This also has nothing to do with "how proxies work" (once again demonstrating you're talking out your [wagon]).

 

 

 

Equally a method of getting your IP, all be it unlikely for any serious DDOS attacker, could be to infect your system with something that reports back to them. Unlikely cause it beats around the houses, but never the less possible. This can also be diverted by a firewall.

 

Does your firewall block port 80 (along with the roughly 64000 others)? Do you strictly define what can and can not pass for legitimate traffic? Do you know that said virus/trojan isn't capable of hiding information inside what looks to be legitimate traffic? Your entire argument is flawed because you clearly don't understand what a firewall is actually for or what it does.

 

 

 

My entire firewall point was a tiny passing issue as a general basis of advice to at least attempt to avoid some the basic ways people grab you're IP (whihc incidentally encompass a few obscure ones). It's been blown out of all proportion by people sticking other things into it to try and say I was wrong, when I wasn't. And now by people having to return to a dead issue with blatant flame baiting and further basing it off things I haven't said and by implying I made some huge point about firewall will save all.

 

And once again, this is the entire problem. A firewall does not even attempt to "avoid the basic way people grab you're IP". It physically can't do this while maintaining communication with the outside world. If you want a firewall installed while still being able to do anything at all online it has to reveal your IP address.

 

 

 

Hopefully this "argument" will die out now, but as a finisher I'd just like to return to what my original point was, but with some extended wording since people are so insistent that it can't be "kept simple"

 

 

 

For those out there concerned about getting this kind of attack who aren't so tech savvy:

 

It won't die because you're intent on spreading misinformation. A firewall doesn't stop IP discovery. It doesn't stop a DDOS attack. It doesn't help people that already don't understand how the topic at hand actually works. You continuing to repeat your misguided and wrong information doesn't make it correct and DEFINITELY doesn't help those that truly don't understand what this topic is actually about.

 

 

 

1) Make sure your network is protected, usually via a firewall built into you're router or modem. This does block out some simple, though some what obscure ways people could get your ip. Doesn't do a huge amount as using the net puts your ip out there, but even so worth having regardless to save you from keyloggers and such-like.

 

Again, none of the above help a DDOS, you know, the thing the topic started out talking about until you started spreading BS. The only thing a firewall really helps as far as RS players are concerned is dropping inbound port scans looking for vulnerable machines. It doesn't hide IPs, it doesn't stop a virus from phoning home, it doesn't magically make you secure after you install it.

 

 

 

2) Try to avoid chat servers and forums with/run by people you do not trust. Every chat service and forum very obviously monitors your ip, though this info is usually restricted to moderators on non-main stream sites moderators can easily be collecting ips for DDOS attacks.

 

For the 50th time, you don't know what you're talking about. Using known sites does not protect you. The signature in my post? Loaded off my server. My avatar? Same thing. I now have the IP of everyone viewing this thread in my server logs. And here you thought Tip.It was safe. The same goes for "trusted" chat systems. Tip.It's IRC server hides IP addresses by default. It's still possible for non-staff to get an IP out of people with some simple social engineering if you know how (and yes I do know, I run the place).

 

 

 

3) Be careful with links you're clicking. Non-mainstream RS sites strangers link to can easily be embedded with keyloggers or ip harvesting coding. Keep to tip.it, runeHQ etc and you can dodge most of this kind of attack.

 

So can links posted on trusted sites. Why do you think we have the Keylogger support forum in Tech and Computers? Links get posted, people click them before a mod is notified, game over. Another useless piece of "advice".

 

 

 

4) If someone is planning to attack you there is very little you can do other than contact your ISP to get a new ip address. There isn't really any effective way of blocking such attacks

 

 

 

5) No matter how careful you are its still extremely easy for people to get your ip as its public as soon as you use the internet.

 

Hey! Something correct! It only took 4 pages and multiple other people already saying this though...

 

 

 

Better?

 

Nope. Still spewing the same wrong explanations.

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You can connect to someone else network via the worldwide web, in a way not dissimilar to how proxies work you don't have to be in range or plugged in.

 

Duh. That's what everyone saying you're wrong has been saying, but your argument is so convoluted and broken nobody knows exactly what you're saying. This also has nothing to do with "how proxies work" (once again demonstrating you're talking out your [wagon]).

 

You CAN access other peoples networks via the web and not just by plugging in. The methods involved in doing this are not dissimilar to those used in a proxy, but not idnetical.

 

 

 

Equally a method of getting your IP, all be it unlikely for any serious DDOS attacker, could be to infect your system with something that reports back to them. Unlikely cause it beats around the houses, but never the less possible. This can also be diverted by a firewall.

 

Does your firewall block port 80 (along with the roughly 64000 others)? Do you strictly define what can and can not pass for legitimate traffic? Do you know that said virus/trojan isn't capable of hiding information inside what looks to be legitimate traffic? Your entire argument is flawed because you clearly don't understand what a firewall is actually for or what it does.

 

 

 

I NEVER said it hides your ip or anything else. I said it stops people being able to READ your ip BECAUSE they are directly on your network. This is perfectly valid

 

 

 

My entire firewall point was a tiny passing issue as a general basis of advice to at least attempt to avoid some the basic ways people grab you're IP (whihc incidentally encompass a few obscure ones). It's been blown out of all proportion by people sticking other things into it to try and say I was wrong, when I wasn't. And now by people having to return to a dead issue with blatant flame baiting and further basing it off things I haven't said and by implying I made some huge point about firewall will save all.

 

And once again, this is the entire problem. A firewall does not even attempt to "avoid the basic way people grab you're IP". It physically can't do this while maintaining communication with the outside world. If you want a firewall installed while still being able to do anything at all online it has to reveal your IP address.

 

 

 

Again I NEVER said anything about hiding your ip.

 

 

 

Hopefully this "argument" will die out now, but as a finisher I'd just like to return to what my original point was, but with some extended wording since people are so insistent that it can't be "kept simple"

 

 

 

For those out there concerned about getting this kind of attack who aren't so tech savvy:

 

It won't die because you're intent on spreading misinformation. A firewall doesn't stop IP discovery. It doesn't stop a DDOS attack. It doesn't help people that already don't understand how the topic at hand actually works. You continuing to repeat your misguided and wrong information doesn't make it correct and DEFINITELY doesn't help those that truly don't understand what this topic is actually about.

 

 

 

Once again I NEVER claimed this to be true.

 

 

 

1) Make sure your network is protected, usually via a firewall built into you're router or modem. This does block out some simple, though some what obscure ways people could get your ip. Doesn't do a huge amount as using the net puts your ip out there, but even so worth having regardless to save you from keyloggers and such-like.

 

Again, none of the above help a DDOS, you know, the thing the topic started out talking about until you started spreading BS. The only thing a firewall really helps as far as RS players are concerned is dropping inbound port scans looking for vulnerable machines. It doesn't hide IPs, it doesn't stop a virus from phoning home, it doesn't magically make you secure after you install it.

 

 

 

I NEVER said it hides ips. It DOES however stop people getting directly onto your network whihc blocks ONE way of reading you ip. I didnt say it helps prevent a DDOS attack.

 

 

 

2) Try to avoid chat servers and forums with/run by people you do not trust. Every chat service and forum very obviously monitors your ip, though this info is usually restricted to moderators on non-main stream sites moderators can easily be collecting ips for DDOS attacks.

 

For the 50th time, you don't know what you're talking about. Using known sites does not protect you. The signature in my post? Loaded off my server. My avatar? Same thing. I now have the IP of everyone viewing this thread in my server logs. And here you thought Tip.It was safe. The same goes for "trusted" chat systems. Tip.It's IRC server hides IP addresses by default. It's still possible for non-staff to get an IP out of people with some simple social engineering if you know how (and yes I do know, I run the place).

 

 

 

I NEVER said it makes you 100% secure. I NEVER said no-one can get your ip off it.

 

It's perfectly valid that you are MORE likely to get you're ip taken for thing such as a DDOS attack on obscure sites made for the sole purpose. So using only mainstream sites can help to an extent.

 

 

 

3) Be careful with links you're clicking. Non-mainstream RS sites strangers link to can easily be embedded with keyloggers or ip harvesting coding. Keep to tip.it, runeHQ etc and you can dodge most of this kind of attack.

 

So can links posted on trusted sites. Why do you think we have the Keylogger support forum in Tech and Computers? Links get posted, people click them before a mod is notified, game over. Another useless piece of "advice".

 

 

 

You're comment refers to clicking links to non-trusted sites whihc goes totally agaisnt what I was advising. This can help.

 

 

 

4) If someone is planning to attack you there is very little you can do other than contact your ISP to get a new ip address. There isn't really any effective way of blocking such attacks

 

 

 

5) No matter how careful you are its still extremely easy for people to get your ip as its public as soon as you use the internet.

 

Hey! Something correct! It only took 4 pages and multiple other people already saying this though...

 

 

 

This is what I've been saying all along you complete [wagon].

 

 

 

My points I posted are ways to HELP avoid them getting you're ip, they in no way claim to be flawless and I acknowledge this early on. Just because something isn't flawless doesn't make it wrong.

 

 

 

Better?

 

Nope. Still spewing the same wrong explanations.

 

 

 

Apart from I'm not spewing the wrong info. All my info is perfectly correct unless you are a complete idiot and infer that I said things are flawless.

 

 

 

They ARE flawed and they WILL NOT 100% stop people getting your ip as this is impossible, but they CAN and DO help avoid some ways people can grab your ip.

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You CAN access other peoples networks via the web and not just by plugging in. The methods involved in doing this are not dissimilar to those used in a proxy, but not idnetical.

 

Did I say you can't access other networks via the web? No, I didn't. I'm referring to your repeated posts about firewalls and "direct" connections being posted in a thread about DDOS attacks, which are always distributed, remotely executed attacks. This is why everyone is calling you an idiot. Once again, this has nothing to do with proxies. Why you brought that up is beyond me.

 

 

 

I NEVER said it hides your ip or anything else. I said it stops people being able to READ your ip BECAUSE they are directly on your network. This is perfectly valid

 

Hiding and "stops people being able to read your ip" are the same thing. If it's unreadable, it's hidden by definition. I then have to ask how you can "stop people being able to read your ip" when they're directly on your network like you just said. A firewall doesn't do this, if they're "on your network", they're past said firewall. :lol:

 

 

 

Again I NEVER said anything about hiding your ip.

 

See the above definition.

 

 

 

I NEVER said it hides ips. It DOES however stop people getting directly onto your network whihc blocks ONE way of reading you ip. I didnt say it helps prevent a DDOS attack.

 

I'm getting tired of repeating this. You do not need access to the network behind the firewall to get an IP address. Any residential installation will have a modem of some kind which is then connected to the firewall (assuming it is a hardware installation). The IP address is assigned to the modem, which just so happens to be outside the firewalled network and thereby revealing the IP address of the modem. You could argue there's a firewall in front of the modem, but that just as easily negates the entire argument because there will be yet another IP address in front of the firewall routing traffic to it which is just as good as anything behind it.

 

 

 

I NEVER said it makes you 100% secure. I NEVER said no-one can get your ip off it.

 

It's perfectly valid that you are MORE likely to get you're ip taken for thing such as a DDOS attack on obscure sites made for the sole purpose. So using only mainstream sites can help to an extent.

 

Yes, backpeddle on your own advice after I prove you're no more safe here than anywhere else. If someone wants to harvest IPs of Tip.It users to attack it's going to happen. You go ahead and keep telling yourself I can't do anything with the IPs my server logs contain if it makes you feel warm and fuzzy.

 

 

 

You're comment refers to clicking links to non-trusted sites whihc goes totally agaisnt what I was advising. This can help.

 

I suggest you acquaint yourself with the purposes of the Keylogger forum. It was implemented with the purpose of dissecting keyloggers posted ON TIP.IT with the intention of helping users remove any infection they gained by clicking the links before a mod removed them. Good try though.

 

 

 

This is what I've been saying all along you complete [wagon].

 

Sweet, I have 4 wheels now. :lol:

 

 

 

My points I posted are ways to HELP avoid them getting you're ip, they in no way claim to be flawless and I acknowledge this early on. Just because something isn't flawless doesn't make it wrong.

 

Um, yes it does make it wrong. Flawed information is wrong information. Arguing that "2+2=5" is both a flawed argument and wrong for anyone that isn't working on an advanced math degree. Add this to the fact that ABSOLUTELY NOTHING YOU POSTED HELPS AVOID IP DISCLOSURE and you have the foundation for someone's ego getting destroyed.

 

 

 

They ARE flawed and they WILL NOT 100% stop people getting your ip as this is impossible

 

Thank you for negating everything you claimed about added protection above.

 

 

 

, but they CAN and DO help avoid some ways people can grab your ip.

 

Maybe I spoke too soon. Same crap, new wrapper. I think we need a lock.

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I NEVER said it hides your ip or anything else. I said it stops people being able to READ your ip BECAUSE they are directly on your network. This is perfectly valid

 

Hiding and "stops people being able to read your ip" are the same thing. If it's unreadable, it's hidden by definition. I then have to ask how you can "stop people being able to read your ip" when they're directly on your network like you just said. A firewall doesn't do this, if they're "on your network", they're past said firewall. :lol:

 

 

 

You're reading things out of context to try and make an argument. Aren't you clever.

 

 

 

I said if they ARE on your network they can read your ip.

 

Firewall stops them getting on your network.

 

Therefore they cannot read you ip in this particular manner.

 

 

 

I NEVER said it hides ips. It DOES however stop people getting directly onto your network whihc blocks ONE way of reading you ip. I didnt say it helps prevent a DDOS attack.

 

I'm getting tired of repeating this. You do not need access to the network behind the firewall to get an IP address. Any residential installation will have a modem of some kind which is then connected to the firewall (assuming it is a hardware installation). The IP address is assigned to the modem, which just so happens to be outside the firewalled network and thereby revealing the IP address of the modem. You could argue there's a firewall in front of the modem, but that just as easily negates the entire argument because there will be yet another IP address in front of the firewall routing traffic to it which is just as good as anything behind it.

 

 

 

I never said you need to get past the firewall. I said the firewall stops them being able to connect directly to your network and thus read your ip that way.

 

 

 

I NEVER said it makes you 100% secure. I NEVER said no-one can get your ip off it.

 

It's perfectly valid that you are MORE likely to get you're ip taken for thing such as a DDOS attack on obscure sites made for the sole purpose. So using only mainstream sites can help to an extent.

 

Yes, backpeddle on your own advice after I prove you're no more safe here than anywhere else. If someone wants to harvest IPs of Tip.It users to attack it's going to happen. You go ahead and keep telling yourself I can't do anything with the IPs my server logs contain if it makes you feel warm and fuzzy.

 

I'm not back peddling. I never said it was 100% secure. You inferred I did and tired to use it agaisnt me.

 

I only ever said it CAN HELP.

 

 

 

You're comment refers to clicking links to non-trusted sites whihc goes totally agaisnt what I was advising. This can help.

 

I suggest you acquaint yourself with the purposes of the Keylogger forum. It was implemented with the purpose or dissecting keyloggers posted ON TIP.IT with the intention of helping users remove any infection they gained by clicking the links before a mod removed them. Good try though.

 

Totally irrelevant to my point.

 

My point was only clicking trusted links again CAN HELP you keep safer.

 

Your response was clicking an untrusted link off a trusted site, this clearly is the opposite of the advice and therefore not relevant.

 

De constructing keylogger equally has NOTHING to do with the advice.

 

 

 

My points I posted are ways to HELP avoid them getting you're ip, they in no way claim to be flawless and I acknowledge this early on. Just because something isn't flawless doesn't make it wrong.

 

Um, yes it does make it wrong. Flawed information is wrong information. Arguing that "2+2=5" is both a flawed argument and wrong for anyone that isn't working on an advanced math degree. Add this to the fact that ABSOLUTELY NOTHING YOU POSTED HELPS AVOID IP DISCLOSURE and you have the foundation for someone's ego getting destroyed.

 

 

 

I never claimed what I posted avoid ip disclosure.

 

I said they can help you to avoid the wrong sort of people getting your ip.

 

As already covered they aren't flawless, but they can help.

 

 

 

They ARE flawed and they WILL NOT 100% stop people getting your ip as this is impossible

 

Thank you for negating everything you claimed about added protection above.

 

I haven't negated anything as I only said they CAN HELP. Not that they produce a 100% safety.

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I'm locking this as it's just turning into a massive, pointless argument when there's facts out there that support one side and nothing to support the other.

 

 

 

For someone to communicate with you over the web at all they have to know your IP, WAN IP, whatever you want to call it. Think of it as snail mail, if someone mails you something you need their address to mail something back, this works the same way with packets. There's no way to conceal an IP entirely, and there never will be.

 

 

 

Even hiding behind a proxy, for this to work, the proxy has to know your IP address, as Cruiser stated above with his firewall on one side of the router scenario.

 

 

 

I said if they ARE on your network they can read your ip.

 

Firewall stops they getting on your network.

 

Therefore they cannot read you ip in the same straight forward way.

 

 

 

They don't need to be on your network to read the IP, if they can attempt a connection (and thus be rejected by the firewall) then they already HAVE your IP to even get to the firewall.

 

 

 

Your IP is logged with every post you make at Tip.It, it's logged on every site you visit, it's logged when you connect to MSN, it's logged when you connect to an IRC server... I don't think I need to continue, topic locked.

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