Skillcapes - Advantageous or Disadvantageous?

[quelmotz]

I assume everyone knows about skillcapes - the capes that show your dedication and hard work in a skill. You can get a skillcape when you reach level 99, or roughly 13 million experience points (XP), in a certain skill.

 

 

 

This thread is about the advantages and disadvantages of skillcapes.

 

 

 

Advantages of skillcapes

 

Skillcapes have many advantages, and one of the most significant is spurring people on to strive for them. The respect of possessing a skillcape and the euphoria of achieving the ultimate goal, level 99 in a skill (though it is arguable that 200M xp, the current max xp, is the real ultimate goal) are some of the things that drive players on, spurring them to dedicate hours chopping trees, making fires, cooking food, mining, etc. This results in Jagex earning money from players who subscribe to membership to get a skillcape or to gain access to an easier way to train skills to level 99.

 

 

 

Of course, many other advantages also exist, mostly minor, but I will not go into them in detail due to time constraints.

 

 

 

Disadvantages of skillcapes

 

On the surface, skillcapes seem to have no negative effects on RuneScape at all, other that the occasional person showing off his skillcape emote and irritating people. But how often do you see a braggart boasting about a certain level 99? Rarely.

 

 

 

The main disadvantage of skillcapes, in my opinion, is the way they devalue items. What I mean is the huge volume of players trying to get a level 99 in "secondary industry" or "processing" skills, such as smithing, crafting and cooking, just to name a few, resulting in the raw materials obtained through mining, woodcutting, fishing, and other "primary industry" skills, i.e. skills where the players obtain raw materials directly from the RuneScape world.

 

 

 

To illustrate with an example, look at the prices of food, raw and cooked. This is easily done with the Grand Exchange or price check.

 

 

 

On 19 June 2009, the prices for raw and cooked food.

 

 

 

Raw Pike: 55 gp

 

Cooked Pike: 43 gp

 

Difference: 12 gp

 

 

 

Raw Salmon: 68 gp

 

Cooked Salmon: 52 gp

 

Difference: 16 gp

 

 

 

Raw Tuna: 101 gp

 

Cooked Tuna: 80 gp

 

Difference: 21 gp

 

 

 

Raw lobster: 299 gp

 

Cooked lobster: 250 gp

 

Difference: 49 gp

 

 

 

Raw Swordfish: 499 gp

 

Cooked Swordfish: 461 gp

 

Difference: 38 gp

 

 

 

As you can see, the prices of raw food is always higher than the prices of cooked food, sometimes by a large margin, as shown in the example of swordfish and lobster.

 

 

 

This doesn't make any sense, and it devalues the skill of cooking (or any other processing nskill) itself. There is simply no point in training cooking and cooking foods, as you will be losing money by putting more effort into a skill.

 

 

 

So, debate and express your opinions whether you think skillcapes are advantageous or disadvantageous. There is no right or wrong answer, like any other debate. In my personal opinion, skillcapes are disadvantageous as they ruin skills. Skillcapes are supposed to be a sign of respect, but what is there to respect if skillcapes devalue the skill they are supposed to represent?

 

 

 

As usual, follow all forum rules, do not flame or spam, etc.

 

 

 

Players who believe skillcapes are advantageous

 

1. MrDespair

 

2. Klankaos

 

3. Inuashakent

 

4. pantim

 

5.

 

 

 

Players who believe skillcapes are disadvantageous

 

1. Quelmotz

 

2. Archimage_a (forum mod)

 

3. Est0rrath

 

4.

 

5.

 

 

 

Half-half.

 

1. Dark_Aura

 

2. tyluke

 

3.

 

4.

 

5.

 

 

 

Good posts by forum-ers

 

 

 

Archimage_a

 

I have to appeal to the older members for this, but does anyone remember Zezima? That name that was on the lips of every level 10 and over newbie from what seems like the start of RS2...The person everyone aspired to be, the top of the Hiscores table...THE person. How many of you now can say you know who is on the hi-scores table?

 

We have blotted out the stars in order to see more of them! The level 99s now number thickly, and because of that we are irritated by them, how many times do you see a skill cape and just think 'Noob...', just out of envy or annoyance that they are doing their emote again. Back when I started playing people knew who was the best, Tip It even had interviews with the top few, Varrock Library teemed with people writing stories about their exploits...They were our heroes and we thought the world of them...

 

Now who do we look up to? If anyone? We are in this game for ourselves, we are going to beat everyone who stands in our way and damn everyone who is higher than us, they only got there by being ruthless so we must do it even more! Like some destructive tornado of DOOM skill capes suck honest players into a cycle of buying and selling, into puring skills to get a cape, which then hangs in contempt because we are sick of being asked to do the ruddy emote!

 

We have a sense of power, we feel arrogant and empty. We want to show off but actually everyone has been there and done that now...We are normal by excelling...

 

Some could argue that this is innevitable, that more people would have got 99 everything and soon there would be so many that the battles for the top spot would lose their appeal... But here is something DIRECTLY responsible for thousands of people leveling like crazy, not for profit but for pride.

[MrDespair]

for instance, smithing:

 

more high lv. smithers results in more easier to get high lv. equipment, as supply increases the cost decreases and it benifits players

 

 

 

the difference of the price of the fool is the cost of getting the cooking xp, you know that it is easy to train cooking by just cooking fish, if you earn more money and fast xp in a short period of time, ppl will get 99 cooking much more easier, this is just to balance it.

 

 

 

its still an achievement to get 99, you not only pay money, you also spent time on that skill.

[klankaos]

I don't believe skillcapes are disadvantageous at all.

 

 

 

You say they've devalued 'finished' products such as cooked fish. However, I don't believe that's true. If memory serves me correctly, when I played back in '06 - well before skillcapes came out - raw food was still worth more than cooked food in P2P worlds. Why? Because people still wanted 99 in a skill, even if there was no fancy cape to get out of it. It's still worth bragging rights to them, so they went for it. Maybe there weren't as many of them - but you can just as easily attribute the price drop to the number of people that are currently playing RS as compared to the number back then, as well as the way the PvP updates worked out - cooked fish simply aren't as valuable any more, because nobody needs them for PKing.

 

 

 

Also, you're only looking at one side of it. What about the people who fish fifteen million lobsters to get 99 fishing? Aren't they flooding the market with their product, too? Why don't we complain about the way raw fish prices have dropped since skillcapes came out due to more people getting them? Because they haven't. Simple as that. People aren't just using more raw products - people are producing more too. It works the same way on either side of the equation.

 

 

 

Also, how do they devalue the skill they are supposed to represent? I don't understand that at all. If anything they add more value to a 99 skill, since it is now recognizable more easily. Before, 99 was only useful for the pride and bragging rights and the stuff you could do with it. Any skill that had no use at 99 was useless except for highscores XP and telling people all about it - and you seem like a total jerk if you just walk around going 'I have 99 fm lol'. Now, people can wear the cape and get the respect that much easier. The skillcapes add value to a 99 skill, not devalue it.

 

 

 

I'm really glad to see someone in DC with a legitimate, well-thought-out OP who seems well interested in defending it.

[Inuashakent]

You can gain 300k xp/hour from Cooking, and you expect to gain profit? I doubt this is because of skillcapes... I think the ease of the Grand exchange had a huge impact on this too.

 

 

 

Raws were worth more than cooked before skillcapes.

[archimage_a]

Couldn't help seeing you statistics for cooking...Shall we consider smithing also?

 

 

 

Iron ore- 100

 

Iron bar- 239

 

Iron Dagger- 23

 

Iron Plate- 373

 

 

 

2 Ore = 1 Bar so there is a profit to be made from SMELTING

 

1 Bar = 1 Dagger so there is a loss from SMITHING

 

5 Bars = 1 Platebody so there is a loss from SMITHING

 

 

 

Runite ore- 13,900

 

Coal- 181

 

Runite bar- 15,500

 

Rune Dagger- 4,660

 

Rune Plate- 44,500

 

 

 

1 Ore + 8 Coal = 1 Bar so there is a profit to be made from SMELTING

 

1 Bar = 1 Dagger so there is a loss from SMITHING

 

5 Bars = 1 Platebody so there is a loss from SMITHING

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Even to the amature economist the writing is on the wall, items that have been processed into an easier to use material are more expensive than items that need work and items that cannot be processed further.

 

 

 

Back to Cooking

 

Raw Shark- 1,013

 

Cooked Shark- 1,014

 

 

 

There is a gain of 1 GP because Sharks cannot be, reasonably, used to train cooking, you are more likely to waste masses of money.

 

 

 

Butter- 382

 

Potato- 76

 

Baked Potato- 182

 

Cooked Tuna- 80

 

Cooked Sweetcorn- 90

 

Tuna and Corn Potato- 1,425

 

 

 

If we round up to the nearest hundred:

 

400+200+100+100 = 800, there is almost a 100% (1425/734 = 1.94, so 94%) profit to be made, and if you cook the potatos yourself there is an even greater profit to be made.

 

Meaning that a Baked Potato has a higher selling price than an uncooked one...seeming to go against your theory:

 

the prices of raw food is always higher than the prices of cooked food

 

 

 

Therefore the logical explaination is that people are willing to pay for the easiest way of getting what they want...and what people want is XP...So while a market still exists for produced goods the focus is on the half finished.

 

 

 

While this can be attributed to Skill Capes I think it is more likely to be caused by the lack of any real threats in Runescape... The Armour and Weapons are so good that you only need food when fighting in a new quest....Some of the older quests can be completed without using food at all, quests that were designed to be expensive!

 

 

 

Additionally your theory is flawed in that fishing and mining are fast ways to get a skill cape...So surely the price would be lower for these industries as well... (Wood cutting / Fletching I can understand)

 

 

 

 

 

This is not to say that I disagree with the statement that Skill Capes are disadvantageous, but instead the method by which you state that they are disadvantagous.

 

When I first heard of Skill Capes I was playing a game called Civ IV, specifically a Mod known as Next War, and each time you discover a new technology you get an accompanying quote, and two of them stuck with me (Both on shielding), in relation to skill capes:

 

 

 

'We have traded the wind on our faces for a dubious security'

 

and

 

'I very much dislike these new shields of yours- they block out the stars and give one a dangerous sense of invulnerability'

 

 

 

The first one, first.

 

We have traded the enjoyment and fun of training for a petty reward that is only self-serving...A skill cape serves no useful purpose, in cooking it stops you burning sharks, or you could use gauntlets.

 

I remember when I caught the Skill-Cape fever, rather than leveling gracefully and equally as I had been up till that point, I dropped everything to fish Monkfish. Within two weeks I had got so sick of RS that I gave up for around 8 months. My account, all the effort I had put into it, would have been for nought(fortunately I am back, again)...

 

I was willing to trade the enjoyment of Runescape, the reason why I played the game, for a dubious promise of Fufillment at the end of the rainbow.

 

 

 

The second one.

 

I have to appeal to the older members for this, but does anyone remember Zezima? That name that was on the lips of every level 10 and over newbie from what seems like the start of RS2...The person everyone aspired to be, the top of the Hiscores table...THE person. How many of you now can say you know who is on the hi-scores table?

 

We have blotted out the stars in order to see more of them! The level 99s now number thickly, and because of that we are irritated by them, how many times do you see a skill cape and just think 'Noob...', just out of envy or annoyance that they are doing their emote again. Back when I started playing people knew who was the best, Tip It even had interviews with the top few, Varrock Library teemed with people writing stories about their exploits...They were our heroes and we thought the world of them...

 

Now who do we look up to? If anyone? We are in this game for ourselves, we are going to beat everyone who stands in our way and damn everyone who is higher than us, they only got there by being ruthless so we must do it even more! Like some destructive tornado of DOOM skill capes suck honest players into a cycle of buying and selling, into puring skills to get a cape, which then hangs in contempt because we are sick of being asked to do the ruddy emote!

 

We have a sense of power, we feel arrogant and empty. We want to show off but actually everyone has been there and done that now...We are normal by excelling...

 

Some could argue that this is innevitable, that more people would have got 99 everything and soon there would be so many that the battles for the top spot would lose their appeal... But here is something DIRECTLY responsible for thousands of people leveling like crazy, not for profit but for pride.

 

 

 

 

 

To summerise:

 

Archimage A things skill capes are disadvantagous because they have destroyed the hierachy of the game which inspired people to become better than they were though team work and hard graft. That inspired friendly competition.

[Owned_Nex]

Your example of food prices "not making sense" is incorrect. It is not because of skillcapes.

 

 

 

If you want to train a skill fast, you must buy the materials. If you could MAKe money AND level fast, why wouldn't you?

 

 

 

Thats why raw prices are lower. Nothing to do with skillcape.

[quelmotz]

Your example of food prices "not making sense" is incorrect. It is not because of skillcapes.

 

 

 

If you want to train a skill fast, you must buy the materials. If you could MAKe money AND level fast, why wouldn't you?

 

 

 

Thats why raw prices are lower. Nothing to do with skillcape.

 

 

 

WHY would you want to train a skill FAST in the first place? That's my point. Skillcapes "force" people to train everything fast.

 

 

 

I assume you think Skillcapes are advantageous?

 

 

 

Couldn't help seeing you statistics for cooking...Shall we consider smithing also?

 

 

 

Iron ore- 100

 

Iron bar- 239

 

Iron Dagger- 23

 

Iron Plate- 373

 

 

 

2 Ore = 1 Bar so there is a profit to be made from SMELTING

 

1 Bar = 1 Dagger so there is a loss from SMITHING

 

5 Bars = 1 Platebody so there is a loss from SMITHING

 

 

 

Runite ore- 13,900

 

Coal- 181

 

Runite bar- 15,500

 

Rune Dagger- 4,660

 

Rune Plate- 44,500

 

 

 

1 Ore + 8 Coal = 1 Bar so there is a profit to be made from SMELTING

 

1 Bar = 1 Dagger so there is a loss from SMITHING

 

5 Bars = 1 Platebody so there is a loss from SMITHING

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Even to the amature economist the writing is on the wall, items that have been processed into an easier to use material are more expensive than items that need work and items that cannot be processed further.

 

 

 

Back to Cooking

 

Raw Shark- 1,013

 

Cooked Shark- 1,014

 

 

 

There is a gain of 1 GP because Sharks cannot be, reasonably, used to train cooking, you are more likely to waste masses of money.

 

 

 

Butter- 382

 

Potato- 76

 

Baked Potato- 182

 

Cooked Tuna- 80

 

Cooked Sweetcorn- 90

 

Tuna and Corn Potato- 1,425

 

 

 

If we round up to the nearest hundred:

 

400+200+100+100 = 800, there is almost a 100% (1425/734 = 1.94, so 94%) profit to be made, and if you cook the potatos yourself there is an even greater profit to be made.

 

Meaning that a Baked Potato has a higher selling price than an uncooked one...seeming to go against your theory:

 

the prices of raw food is always higher than the prices of cooked food

 

 

 

Therefore the logical explaination is that people are willing to pay for the easiest way of getting what they want...and what people want is XP...So while a market still exists for produced goods the focus is on the half finished.

 

 

 

While this can be attributed to Skill Capes I think it is more likely to be caused by the lack of any real threats in Runescape... The Armour and Weapons are so good that you only need food when fighting in a new quest....Some of the older quests can be completed without using food at all, quests that were designed to be expensive!

 

 

 

Additionally your theory is flawed in that fishing and mining are fast ways to get a skill cape...So surely the price would be lower for these industries as well... (Wood cutting / Fletching I can understand)

 

 

 

 

 

This is not to say that I disagree with the statement that Skill Capes are disadvantageous, but instead the method by which you state that they are disadvantagous.

 

When I first heard of Skill Capes I was playing a game called Civ IV, specifically a Mod known as Next War, and each time you discover a new technology you get an accompanying quote, and two of them stuck with me (Both on shielding), in relation to skill capes:

 

 

 

'We have traded the wind on our faces for a dubious security'

 

and

 

'I very much dislike these new shields of yours- they block out the stars and give one a dangerous sense of invulnerability'

 

 

 

The first one, first.

 

We have traded the enjoyment and fun of training for a petty reward that is only self-serving...A skill cape serves no useful purpose, in cooking it stops you burning sharks, or you could use gauntlets.

 

I remember when I caught the Skill-Cape fever, rather than leveling gracefully and equally as I had been up till that point, I dropped everything to fish Monkfish. Within two weeks I had got so sick of RS that I gave up for around 8 months. My account, all the effort I had put into it, would have been for nought(fortunately I am back, again)...

 

I was willing to trade the enjoyment of Runescape, the reason why I played the game, for a dubious promise of Fufillment at the end of the rainbow.

 

 

 

The second one.

 

I have to appeal to the older members for this, but does anyone remember Zezima? That name that was on the lips of every level 10 and over newbie from what seems like the start of RS2...The person everyone aspired to be, the top of the Hiscores table...THE person. How many of you now can say you know who is on the hi-scores table?

 

We have blotted out the stars in order to see more of them! The level 99s now number thickly, and because of that we are irritated by them, how many times do you see a skill cape and just think 'Noob...', just out of envy or annoyance that they are doing their emote again. Back when I started playing people knew who was the best, Tip It even had interviews with the top few, Varrock Library teemed with people writing stories about their exploits...They were our heroes and we thought the world of them...

 

Now who do we look up to? If anyone? We are in this game for ourselves, we are going to beat everyone who stands in our way and damn everyone who is higher than us, they only got there by being ruthless so we must do it even more! Like some destructive tornado of DOOM skill capes suck honest players into a cycle of buying and selling, into puring skills to get a cape, which then hangs in contempt because we are sick of being asked to do the ruddy emote!

 

We have a sense of power, we feel arrogant and empty. We want to show off but actually everyone has been there and done that now...We are normal by excelling...

 

Some could argue that this is innevitable, that more people would have got 99 everything and soon there would be so many that the battles for the top spot would lose their appeal... But here is something DIRECTLY responsible for thousands of people leveling like crazy, not for profit but for pride.

 

 

 

 

 

To summerise:

 

Archimage A things skill capes are disadvantagous because they have destroyed the hierachy of the game which inspired people to become better than they were though team work and hard graft. That inspired friendly competition.

 

 

 

Well said =D>

 

 

 

Mind if I borrow your "the second one" part for the OP?

 

 

 

Thanks in advance.

 

 

 

You can gain 300k xp/hour from Cooking, and you expect to gain profit? I doubt this is because of skillcapes... I think the ease of the Grand exchange had a huge impact on this too.

 

 

 

Raws were worth more than cooked before skillcapes.

 

 

 

The first point. Players want to gain FAST xp (300xp/hour in your example) in a skill so they can get a level 99. The GE definitely has an impact on this, but I doubt that impact is any more than its impacts on our everyday goings in RuneScape.

 

 

 

I'm sorry, I'm quite a new player and have never played RuneScape before the time of skillcapes, so I was not aware of that. But I'm still sure that skillcapes increased the gap in prices of raw and cooked food.

 

 

 

You say they've devalued 'finished' products such as cooked fish. However, I don't believe that's true. If memory serves me correctly, when I played back in '06 - well before skillcapes came out - raw food was still worth more than cooked food in P2P worlds. Why? Because people still wanted 99 in a skill, even if there was no fancy cape to get out of it. It's still worth bragging rights to them, so they went for it. Maybe there weren't as many of them - but you can just as easily attribute the price drop to the number of people that are currently playing RS as compared to the number back then, as well as the way the PvP updates worked out - cooked fish simply aren't as valuable any more, because nobody needs them for PKing.

 

 

 

True, but skillcapes INCREASE the gap between prices of raw and cooked food, because now people have something to flaunt their level 99s, more of them go for it.

 

 

 

Also, you're only looking at one side of it. What about the people who fish fifteen million lobsters to get 99 fishing? Aren't they flooding the market with their product, too? Why don't we complain about the way raw fish prices have dropped since skillcapes came out due to more people getting them? Because they haven't. Simple as that. People aren't just using more raw products - people are producing more too. It works the same way on either side of the equation.

 

 

 

But the problem also lies in skillcapes. People want a skillcape, and they don't care what kind of skillcape. Cooking skillcape is much easier, so many people go for it, compared to fishing skillcape. Thus, there is still a gap in the number of fish/raw materials coming in compared to the number of people cooking the fish/raw materials.

 

 

 

Also, how do they devalue the skill they are supposed to represent? I don't understand that at all. If anything they add more value to a 99 skill, since it is now recognizable more easily. Before, 99 was only useful for the pride and bragging rights and the stuff you could do with it. Any skill that had no use at 99 was useless except for highscores XP and telling people all about it - and you seem like a total jerk if you just walk around going 'I have 99 fm lol'. Now, people can wear the cape and get the respect that much easier. The skillcapes add value to a 99 skill, not devalue it.

 

 

 

Yes, but along the way to the 99, most players use the quick method to get XP, once again increasing the gap between the raw and cooked foods.

 

 

 

Though you make a good point there, mind if I add that to the advantages of skillcapes in the OP?

 

 

 

I'm really glad to see someone in DC with a legitimate, well-thought-out OP who seems well interested in defending it.

 

 

 

Thanks :thumbsup:

[MrDespair]

WHY would you want to train a skill FAST in the first place? That's my point. Skillcapes "force" people to train everything fast.

 

so you think that getting higher lvs are bad?

 

 

 

The first point. Players want to gain FAST xp (300xp/hour in your example) in a skill so they can get a level 99. The GE definitely has an impact on this, but I doubt that impact is any more than its impacts on our everyday goings in RuneScape.

 

 

 

I'm sorry, I'm quite a new player and have never played RuneScape before the time of skillcapes, so I was not aware of that. But I'm still sure that skillcapes increased the gap in prices of raw and cooked food.

 

Firstly, the gap in prices of raw lobbies and cooked ones is always about 50gp.

 

 

 

Secondly, think another way round, more ppl are going to train cooking because they want to get the skillcape, the demand of fish increases, thus the price of raws increases, it attracts players that want to make cash to fish, this promotes the production of raws, because you will gain xp while you are fishing, we can say that mor ppl cooking causes more people to fish, and helps the growth the population of skillful fishers, this benifits the whole community in RS.

 

 

 

Thirdly, as the trading acitivity is more frequent, it promotes the economy in RS.

[Owned_Nex]

Your example of food prices "not making sense" is incorrect. It is not because of skillcapes.

 

 

 

If you want to train a skill fast, you must buy the materials. If you could MAKe money AND level fast, why wouldn't you?

 

 

 

Thats why raw prices are lower. Nothing to do with skillcape.

 

 

 

WHY would you want to train a skill FAST in the first place? That's my point. Skillcapes "force" people to train everything fast.

 

 

 

Umm.

 

 

 

Would you rather get say...99 Str in 1 month or 5 months? Or 99 Cooking a 1 week verses 1 month? IF there were no skillcapes, I don't think that means you will not care and spend much more time.

[archimage_a]

Course you may use my arguements.

 

 

 

Would you rather get say...99 Str in 1 month or 5 months? Or 99 Cooking a 1 week verses 1 month? IF there were no skillcapes, I don't think that means you will not care and spend much more time.

 

 

 

I would rather enjoy the game and WHEN there were no skillcapes people did not get 99 strength in 1 month...Hence skill capes do, in some way, cause rampant leveling.

 

 

 

 

 

Now, people can wear the cape and get the respect that much easier. The skillcapes add value to a 99 skill, not devalue it.

 

 

 

Sorry, I must have missed the memo because when I see someone in a skill cape I don't think 'Wow that person must have been playing a really long time and must be really good' I think, and it is prejudice of me I know, 'Damn new money noob.'

 

 

 

You respected the high levels because they were mainly decent enough people who helped you out(not all of them, but most of them. It would be like saying all low levels begged...just not true).

 

Then skill capes and fast leveling came out, which very quickly created a new middle class. This middle class didn't understand how the world worked and so could be scammed, so Jagex improved the anti-scamming system.

 

Meaning that now people who didn't know how the world worked, were no longer were subject to being picked off by too good to be true offers. Hence they were all out for themselves, praying on the naivity of new users and the generosity of old users. Like any parasite they grew out of all proportion and so now we are left with people not working together, people not talking and people who block everyone that says hi....

 

 

 

more ppl are going to train cooking because they want to get the skillcape, the demand of fish increases, thus the price of raws increases, it attracts players that want to make cash to fish, this promotes the production of raws, because you will gain xp while you are fishing, we can say that mor ppl cooking causes more people to fish, and helps the growth the population of skillful fishers, this benifits the whole community in RS.

 

 

 

Lets say that 10,000 people played the game:

 

And that a cooker can cook at 3 times the rate that the fisher can fish, and the attacker can eat fish (to heal) at 1/15 the speed that the fisher can fish.

 

 

 

In this senario, if only these career paths were avalible:

 

612 would need to be fishers

 

204 would need to be cookers

 

9180 would need to be attackers.

 

 

 

So in order for the price to grow, less than 10% are actually producers, while 90% are consumers. This is not an accurate break down.

 

 

 

Purely from experiance I would say that the split was more 20% 30% 50% (Fishers, cooker, attackers). Approximately 1999 fishers, 3332 cookers and 4998 attackers.

 

Meaning that:

 

The supply of fish is 1999

 

The demand of fish is 9996

 

The supply of cooked fish is 1999

 

The demand for cooked fish is 333

 

 

 

Under-supply for raws and over-supply for cooked....Leading to a divergance of price.

 

QED.

[MrDespair]

 

Lets say that 10,000 people played the game:

 

And that a cooker can cook at 3 times the rate that the fisher can fish, and the attacker can eat fish (to heal) at 1/15 the speed that the fisher can fish.

 

 

 

In this senario, if only these career paths were avalible:

 

612 would need to be fishers

 

204 would need to be cookers

 

9180 would need to be attackers.

 

 

 

So in order for the price to grow, less than 10% are actually producers, while 90% are consumers. This is not an accurate break down.

 

 

 

Purely from experiance I would say that the split was more 20% 30% 50% (Fishers, cooker, attackers). Approximately 1999 fishers, 3332 cookers and 4998 attackers.

 

Meaning that:

 

The supply of fish is 1999

 

The demand of fish is 9996

 

The supply of cooked fish is 1999

 

The demand for cooked fish is 333

 

 

 

Under-supply for raws and over-supply for cooked....Leading to a divergance of price.

 

QED.

 

i don't agree with you.

 

 

 

you are assuming the players are doing just only a skill. In fact, quite a lot of players do both fishing and cooking and even combat. Also, if look check the GE "top 100 most traded items" page, you will discover that more people purchase cooked ones than the raw ones. Indeed there is an under-supply of raws, the demand of cooked ones are high too, this leads the difference between the price of raws and cooked to be at around 50 for a long time. So your figures and point are incorrect.

[quelmotz]

Quote:

 

Would you rather get say...99 Str in 1 month or 5 months? Or 99 Cooking a 1 week verses 1 month? IF there were no skillcapes, I don't think that means you will not care and spend much more time.

 

 

 

 

 

I would rather enjoy the game and WHEN there were no skillcapes people did not get 99 strength in 1 month...Hence skill capes do, in some way, cause rampant leveling.

 

 

 

This was what I was trying to say.

 

 

 

 

Lets say that 10,000 people played the game:

 

And that a cooker can cook at 3 times the rate that the fisher can fish, and the attacker can eat fish (to heal) at 1/15 the speed that the fisher can fish.

 

 

 

In this senario, if only these career paths were avalible:

 

612 would need to be fishers

 

204 would need to be cookers

 

9180 would need to be attackers.

 

 

 

So in order for the price to grow, less than 10% are actually producers, while 90% are consumers. This is not an accurate break down.

 

 

 

Purely from experiance I would say that the split was more 20% 30% 50% (Fishers, cooker, attackers). Approximately 1999 fishers, 3332 cookers and 4998 attackers.

 

Meaning that:

 

The supply of fish is 1999

 

The demand of fish is 9996

 

The supply of cooked fish is 1999

 

The demand for cooked fish is 333

 

 

 

Under-supply for raws and over-supply for cooked....Leading to a divergance of price.

 

QED.

 

i don't agree with you.

 

 

 

you are assuming the players are doing just only a skill. In fact, quite a lot of players do both fishing and cooking and even combat. Also, if look check the GE "top 100 most traded items" page, you will discover that more people purchase cooked ones than the raw ones. Indeed there is an under-supply of raws, the demand of cooked ones are high too, this leads the difference between the price of raws and cooked to be at around 50 for a long time. So your figures and point are incorrect.

 

 

 

Firstly, he is right in assuming that. You can't be cooking+fishing+combat-ing at the same time, right? So at a point in time, say 10,000 players are participating in these three activities (not at once, though). So regardless of how it changes, there would still be 10,000 players participating in these activities (assuming no one stops).

 

 

 

Secondly, I seriously doubt ALL cooked food are bought more than raw food. Only foods that many pkers bring along with them will be bought more than the raw food. (e.g. lobsters, sharks, etc)

 

Don't trust me on this, but I think lobsters/sharks are bad for training cooking but good "Pk foods". So they are mainly used to make money if I'm not wrong, so that does not relate much to skillcapes.

[MrDespair]

Firstly, he is right in assuming that. You can't be cooking+fishing+combat-ing at the same time, right? So at a point in time, say 10,000 players are participating in these three activities (not at once, though). So regardless of how it changes, there would still be 10,000 players participating in these activities (assuming no one stops).

 

 

 

Secondly, I seriously doubt ALL cooked food are bought more than raw food. Only foods that many pkers bring along with them will be bought more than the raw food. (e.g. lobsters, sharks, etc)

 

Don't trust me on this, but I think lobsters/sharks are bad for training cooking but good "Pk foods". So they are mainly used to make money if I'm not wrong, so that does not relate much to skillcapes.

 

ok, you mentioned cooked food can be used to make more money, which means more food can make more money, if there are more players making food for that skillcape, other players can use the food to generate money, the cooker can get the xp and cape, the buyer can earn money from those food, i can't see anything wrong from that.

[Tim]

For me its both. I've been doing 99 defence for years, and well before skill capes. For me its a motivation to keep on pushing. However to the extreamly rich players out there its more like a collecter item, so they buy out the materials and get it, not realising many players do the same and in the end can screw over players who enjoy the skill compaired to players who want just the cape.

 

 

 

Example, Player A wants 99 Herblore, hes been doing it for years and is at level 80, leaves for a year and returns. All the prices are 2x more, profit = none and its become just a cape to the rich. Player A quits his goal.

[archimage_a]

you are assuming the players are doing just only a skill. In fact, quite a lot of players do both fishing and cooking and even combat. Also, if look check the GE "top 100 most traded items" page, you will discover that more people purchase cooked ones than the raw ones. Indeed there is an under-supply of raws, the demand of cooked ones are high too, this leads the difference between the price of raws and cooked to be at around 50 for a long time. So your figures and point are incorrect.

 

 

 

I am assuming cumulative values...

 

and as to the Ge most trade items:

 

 

 

The last 30 days worth of trades and the median trades per day.

 

In blue are the items which trade more cooked and in red are the items which trade more raw.

 

 

 

 

Raw lobster

 

12.4m

 

199.5m

 

 

 

Lobster

 

11.1m

 

189.7m

 

 

 

Raw tuna

 

10.2m

 

174.6m

 

 

 

Raw trout

 

10.1m

 

168.6m

 

 

 

Monkfish

 

7.2m

 

135.2m

 

 

 

Tuna

 

6.5m

 

121.2m

 

 

 

Shark

 

6.1m

 

117.1m

 

 

 

Raw monkfish

 

6.4m

 

110.9m

 

 

 

Raw shark

 

5.3m

 

102.8m

 

 

 

Swordfish

 

4.8m

 

90.9m

 

 

 

Raw salmon

 

4.7m

 

80.2m

 

 

 

Raw swordfish

 

4.1m

 

76.8m

 

 

 

Salmon

 

3.5m

 

68.0m

 

 

 

Trout

 

3.1m

 

53.9m

 

 

 

Raw shrimps

 

1.5m

 

27.4m

 

 

 

 

To summerise, with exception of Monkfish, Sharks and Swordfish more raw material is brought. The overall totals are as follows:

 

54.7 Raw per day

 

940.8 Raw per month

 

42.3 Cooked per day

 

776.3 Cooked per month

 

 

 

 

 

So over 12 Million more raw items flood into the market every(normal) day than do cooked items.

 

Over 160 million more raw items flooded into the market in the last month, than did cooked items.

 

(all figures only take into account the 100 top items, not EVERY item.)

 

Trout alone trades 114 million more raw than it does cooked.

 

 

 

 

 

So the figures support my arguement that more raw fish is traded than cooked fish, therefore more raw fish is required and produced than the amount cooked and sold.

 

Hence, either everyone is now cooking their own food, a sharp departure from what I know to be true, or people are buying less food than is being sold...proving my arguement.

 

 

 

 

 

ok, you mentioned cooked food can be used to make more money, which means more food can make more money, if there are more players making food for that skillcape, other players can use the food to generate money, the cooker can get the xp and cape, the buyer can earn money from those food, i can't see anything wrong from that.

 

 

 

The point we are trying to make is that there are not enough people buying food. So selling more does not equal making more money.

[MrDespair]

 

The point we are trying to make is that there are not enough people buying food. So selling more does not equal making more money.

 

This happened before skillcapes were introduced, skillcapes didn't increase the price difference, it promotes the stock turn rate as more people want to buy raws and cook them for the skillcape, this benifits the whole community as there are more skillful players, so you think that it is bad if there are more pro. players?

[quelmotz]

you are assuming the players are doing just only a skill. In fact, quite a lot of players do both fishing and cooking and even combat. Also, if look check the GE "top 100 most traded items" page, you will discover that more people purchase cooked ones than the raw ones. Indeed there is an under-supply of raws, the demand of cooked ones are high too, this leads the difference between the price of raws and cooked to be at around 50 for a long time. So your figures and point are incorrect.

 

 

 

I am assuming cumulative values...

 

and as to the Ge most trade items:

 

 

 

The last 30 days worth of trades and the median trades per day.

 

In blue are the items which trade more cooked and in red are the items which trade more raw.

 

 

 

 

Raw lobster

 

12.4m

 

199.5m

 

 

 

Lobster

 

11.1m

 

189.7m

 

 

 

Raw tuna

 

10.2m

 

174.6m

 

 

 

Raw trout

 

10.1m

 

168.6m

 

 

 

Monkfish

 

7.2m

 

135.2m

 

 

 

Tuna

 

6.5m

 

121.2m

 

 

 

Shark

 

6.1m

 

117.1m

 

 

 

Raw monkfish

 

6.4m

 

110.9m

 

 

 

Raw shark

 

5.3m

 

102.8m

 

 

 

Swordfish

 

4.8m

 

90.9m

 

 

 

Raw salmon

 

4.7m

 

80.2m

 

 

 

Raw swordfish

 

4.1m

 

76.8m

 

 

 

Salmon

 

3.5m

 

68.0m

 

 

 

Trout

 

3.1m

 

53.9m

 

 

 

Raw shrimps

 

1.5m

 

27.4m

 

 

 

 

To summerise, with exception of Monkfish, Sharks and Swordfish more raw material is brought. The overall totals are as follows:

 

54.7 Raw per day

 

940.8 Raw per month

 

42.3 Cooked per day

 

776.3 Cooked per month

 

 

 

 

 

So over 12 Million more raw items flood into the market every(normal) day than do cooked items.

 

Over 160 million more raw items flooded into the market in the last month, than did cooked items.

 

(all figures only take into account the 100 top items, not EVERY item.)

 

Trout alone trades 114 million more raw than it does cooked.

 

 

 

 

 

So the figures support my arguement that more raw fish is traded than cooked fish, therefore more raw fish is required and produced than the amount cooked and sold.

 

Hence, either everyone is now cooking their own food, a sharp departure from what I know to be true, or people are buying less food than is being sold...proving my arguement.

 

 

 

 

 

ok, you mentioned cooked food can be used to make more money, which means more food can make more money, if there are more players making food for that skillcape, other players can use the food to generate money, the cooker can get the xp and cape, the buyer can earn money from those food, i can't see anything wrong from that.

 

 

 

The point we are trying to make is that there are not enough people buying food. So selling more does not equal making more money.

 

 

 

Ouch...can you change the colours please...my eyes hurt.

 

 

 

True...so now the argument is about the fishing skillcape spurring fish-ers to fish more? :?

[Sir_Kurity]

I think its disadvantageous for a variety of reasons.

 

 

 

Almost no processing skills are profitable anymore, even slightly, and are all just gigantic ways to waste your money.

 

 

 

As i see it, it gives us some fancy looking capes, while rendering half the skills useless in making money. And sure, the capes are great, but i just hate how it works.

[archimage_a]

Edit: I think we are in a pretty bad way when selling unfired bowls and pie dishes(at level 7 crafting) is more profitable than selling cooked Tuna (at level 30 cooking.)

 

End Edit

 

 

 

 

 

I think its disadvantageous for a variety of reasons.

 

 

 

Almost no processing skills are profitable anymore, even slightly, and are all just gigantic ways to waste your money.

 

 

 

As i see it, it gives us some fancy looking capes, while rendering half the skills useless in making money. And sure, the capes are great, but i just hate how it works.

 

 

 

Got it in one.

 

 

 

 

The point we are trying to make is that there are not enough people buying food. So selling more does not equal making more money.

 

This happened before skillcapes were introduced, skillcapes didn't increase the price difference, it promotes the stock turn rate as more people want to buy raws and cook them for the skillcape, this benifits the whole community as there are more skillful players, so you think that it is bad if there are more pro. players?

 

 

 

In a word....Yes.

 

Now your opinions are EXTREMELY capitalist. 'Well if they can't benefit from it then it must be their own fault because, look, I can benefit.' (As Gaskell would say, satirically, 'Who would wear cotton that could afford linen?')

 

I on the other hand am EXTREMELY communist. 'Hey look, there is oppression, lets do something about it.' (As Dom Heldar Camara would say 'When I give food to the poor they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food they call me a communist.')

 

 

 

However both Capitalism and Communism REQUIRE people to know their place. Neither system can work if no one works...(QED), and capitalism fails abysmally on this note and (As I communist I have great pleasure saying this) while it looks good on paper it doesn't work in the real world-

 

As the varouis panics, depressions and recessions have shown. There has been at least one every 5 years since 1860. Only by firmly digging our finger nails into the wardrobe that is Capitalism do we stop the Rag and Bone man carting it off to the heap.-

 

There HAS to be a certain number of people doing certain things or else inflation happens, and prices drop, leading to more goods being produced, leading to prices dropping further, leading to more goods.

 

RS doesn't work quiet like that because if the price gets too low you can just move on to a different skill until that one picks up again.

 

However RS is NOT based on money, at least not since Skill Capes, it is based on XP. Thus a skill is still 'profitable' regardless of if you actually make money out of it.

 

 

 

I think that is what we are really debating 'Has XP superceeded GP?'

 

We all know that Smithing and Cooking and the other processing skills are NOT profitable, and yet people still level them up.

 

We have entered a new economic system without even knowing it.

 

 

 

I dub it Experiancism.

 

 

 

The issue with Experiancism is that it will triumph, so completely, over Capitalism, that eventually money will have to be abandoned because it is worthless. Thus leading to Communism because everyone will be working to better themselves and the community, rather than to line their pockets...

 

 

 

So I suppose I should rescind my earlier critisim of the system, clearly it is so destructive to Capitalism that it cannot be allowed to stop, and so the debate becomes 'Do we prefer XP-based economy or GP-based economy?'

 

 

 

Now if only we could introduce Experiancism into the real world, maybe then we would get somewhere... :twisted:

 

 

 

(Half jokingly and half serouis, I do think that a new system has been introduced that is superceeding the old one, it is strange though how the Vanguards of the old system have jumped ship immediately and the opposition of the old system are now at it's defence.)

[tyluke]

Here is my simple logic :

 

 

 

Skill capes Do neither good nor harm. I respect the merit of it, but i'd rather see it earned over time

 

 

 

 

 

1. In regards to the difference in price between raw and cooked goods here my thoughts.

 

If a good has more potential uses, directions or benefits it will cost more. Lets consider raw monkfish

 

 

 

Player 1 could

 

Catches Monkfish, than trade

 

Cooks monkfish, than trade

 

Eats monkfish, than trade

 

 

 

Than

 

 

 

Player 2

 

Cooks Monkfish, than trade

 

Eats Monkfish, than trade

 

 

 

Than

 

 

 

Player 3

 

Eats Monkfish, than trade

 

 

 

That explains why Ores cost more compared to bars (excluding steel) and even more compared to the finished goods.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

2. the potential for the product deteoriates as its benefits (xp provided) decrease. so i think it makes logical sense that MOST cooked goods cost less than the materials to prepare them. Now skill capes although they do cause a surges and dumping in raw and unfinished goods, (gold bars:evil:) the sharp demand feeds the raw resource market (for ores) who will inturn make other purchases so the circle though stretched is maintained.

 

 

 

 

 

3. The reason why shark, monkfish, and swordfish traded more cooked fish than raw (over that period of time) is because swordfish is one of the top F2P healing foods and likewise for monkfish and shark in P2P. the reason why those items trade for more is simply demand, but because there is such a large supply of cooked foods the prices for cooked fish are lower.

 

 

 

4. Shark, Monkfish and Swordfish are the most probable foods for pking, quests and stuff. they are also top notch xp resources for fishing and cooking. so the price of these raw goods is inflated by the demand for the xp and practicality

 

 

 

5. Skillcapes do 'encourage' players to skill faster than regularly, but because of the GE I don't think the encouragement is that significant. If i wanted to level a skill i would stock up on the materials and train it, not do it bit by bit. the arguement of skillcapes encouraging players I AGREE goes both ways. but no one should use it as a 'sweeping generalization' or 'slipperly slope'

 

 

 

6. IT MAKES PERFECT SENSE WHY FINISHED GOODS COST LESS, finshed goods do not deteoriate or crumble (excluding barrows etc) A Steel Plate Body costs alot more than five steel bars because

 

A. Steel Plates don't disapear, crumble, or go away when you die

 

B. Since Steel Plates don't need to be replaced; there is much less demand, resulting in toxic dumping and oversupply of arms and armor.

 

 

 

 

 

Thats all for now :

[Sir_Kurity]

No it makes no sense, because you SHOULD be paying for the labour cost, at least in the real world..

[tyluke]

No it makes no sense, because you SHOULD be paying for the labour cost, at least in the real world..

 

 

 

 

 

Very true realisticly and for some items you can argue that is true, but we cannot assume (not saying you were) that what is or should be, in the real, is or should be for Runescape. :D

[Sir_Kurity]

I never said it is.

 

 

 

As its stands now there is no labour cost cause labour consists of walking 5 steps to an anvil.

 

 

 

As well as hideous oversupply.

[quelmotz]

I never said it is.

 

 

 

As its stands now there is no labour cost cause labour consists of walking 5 steps to an anvil.

 

 

 

As well as hideous oversupply.

 

 

 

Exactly :

[Salvette]

The problem does not lie in the skillcapes, but rather in the skillcape mentality. If you like a skill, if that skill is needed to fuel one of your other skills, then it's a good idea to train it. If it's easy to get it to 99, don't train it just because of that. You'll end up with a cape nobody respects and you'll be messing up the economy.

 

 

 

Actually, the problem might lie in the sheer number of players with high levels. If there were only a hundred people with the level needed to cook sharks, cooked sharks would be very valuable. In order for one to exist, it would have to be cooked by one of these master cooks, and they wouldn't all spend their whole lives playing RS and cooking those sharks. In the current situation, they're worth almost the same price cooked as raw.

 

 

 

The same thing applies to Fletching. Think about it. You need a pretty high level to get magic logs, and they're hard to obtain in large numbers. To make those into bows, you need a very high Fletching level. With those requirements met, you can make the most powerful shortbow in the game. What do you get for doing that, with all your high levels? A bow that's worth less than the logs needed to make it, and that's not even counting the string. The bow should be ten times that price, but there are so many people with high Fletching levels that the bows are almost worthless. When your weapon is worth less than your food, something's wrong.