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Chasing Perfection: Jagex's Quest for a PvP Utopia


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#21
RSBDavid
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My personal thoughts are that you can only recieve as much as the opponent is risking.


If you get the same,RWT. If less,thats less reward for an already high risk.



Also that the person you kill cannot of been on your friends list in the past 48 hours. (This may end DM's, but as you have stated, not everyone can be satisfied.)


Clan chats could be a loophole.




So could any other outside form of communication... Forums, messenger services, voice chats, etc.

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#22
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My personal thoughts are that you can only recieve as much as the opponent is risking.


If you get the same,RWT. If less,thats less reward for an already high risk.




But that's exactly the point. In the old wilderness, very few people actually profited from pking. Why should that be the case now? As I said, you need to get as close to the past as you can. Making a system where everyone wins is not the answer. Trying to please everyone is not the answer.



Some people will lose a lot of money pking. That's something you can't change without breaking the system.

#23
Runeman231
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I read this thinking it was probably another annoying anti-Jagex rant, and I'd like to appologize for that. I REALLY enjyoed reading this and agree with it 100%. Something needs to be done or this game is going to go to [cabbage].

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#24
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My personal thoughts are that you can only recieve as much as the opponent is risking.


If you get the same,RWT. If less,thats less reward for an already high risk.




But that's exactly the point. In the old wilderness, very few people actually profited from pking. Why should that be the case now? As I said, you need to get as close to the past as you can. Making a system where everyone wins is not the answer. Trying to please everyone is not the answer.



Some people will lose a lot of money pking. That's something you can't change without breaking the system.


I don't understand.

Lets say your average joe melee with full rune, protected whip,nizzy helm,climbers,ect, kills me wereing the same thing.On my death pile will be another rune set and left over food & potions,which is joe melee's profit.



If you telling me they shouldn't receive MORE than their risk,then I wholeheartedly agree. But a PKer should never get too much less imo.
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#25
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I don't understand.

Lets say your average joe melee with full rune, protected whip,nizzy helm,climbers,ect, kills me wereing the same thing.On my death pile will be another rune set and left over food & potions,which is joe melee's profit.



If you telling me they shouldn't receive MORE than their risk,then I wholeheartedly agree. But a PKer should never get too much less imo.




What he's saying is: having the winner gain almost as much as the opponent lost would leave to much open space for RWT. If that happened, then we have 2 years of anti-RWT updates for nothing and back to square one.



Like, if Joe Melee died and lost around 200k worth of items, and Bob Hybrid gets 150k loot out of that..



RWT Seller #1 could easily die with 200k, and Gold Buyer #1 could get 150k loot out of that.

Basically the drops would have to be 50% or less, or RWT could take advantage of it.



Were at a point now where we realize, PvP is either going to be like it is now, where players can farm it for GP, or a system were the majority of players break even or lose money and only the best of the best turn out rich. There's not really any grey area in between.
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#26
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They should just end the whole amg we must stop rwt attitude tbh

Most RWTers(from before) bot with accounts and then trade them off, in which case jagex can add a restriction allowing people to pvp only after x amount of days of playing, and considering how Jagex glorifies their new bot-detecting methods, it wouldn't be as much of a problem as it was in the past.

I'm not saying switch back to old wilderness, but at least switch to something like the old BH where lvl 3 botters can't sell their 43543543643634 macro'd yew logs as easily.

Sure, some RWTers can get away with it, but I think some getting away is better than almost everyone profiting from some system that can land you millions with ease. Hell, with the new +1 worlds, almost everyone is a 1-itemer, I got bored once, took out my d claws for fun, got a target (which as I said, are mostly 1-itemers, yes I'm one of them :[ ), and got 660k at 0 ep

And before anyone goes "It's not fair to players who play fairly and don't RWT", keep in mind accounts are easily RWT'able

#27
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I think, since the new pvp system is so mini-game esque, the new artifacts that are dropped should be exchanged for a type of non tradeable pvp currency, like castlewars tickets or void points. These could be spent on xp or non tradeable weapons and armor, heck Jagex could make brawlers purchaseable with bounty credit along with the special pvp weapons/armor. It would stop the rampant inflation and pvp goers could still get item drops.
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#28
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I think, since the new pvp system is so mini-game esque, the new artifacts that are dropped should be exchanged for a type of non tradeable pvp currency, like castlewars tickets or void points. These could be spent on xp or non tradeable weapons and armor, heck Jagex could make brawlers purchaseable with bounty credit along with the special pvp weapons/armor. It would stop the rampant inflation and pvp goers could still get item drops.




The problem is that the RS economy is so intertwined with pking just because skilling produces items that should be consumed and disappear with PVP. Monster killing and quests use up some items but the bulk of items are used up whie pvping. While there was limited PVP the economy for player produced goods crashed.



If PVP loot stayed only on PVP worlds, the complaints would swing the other way about the economy everyone would complain that prices were too low, and no one would sell anything that they produce they'd start hoarding if the prices crashed.



Right now even though there is inflation it's still possible to buy items because another player may decide to fish or woodcut because the profits are good. If prices fell again who would supply the goods needed?



RS needs pvp, but the generous drops are unbalancing the game. Like the OP said though, how much longer will the tweaks to pvp continue? It's endless, there will never be a perfect system. Even pre-trade restriction wildy wasn't perfect, but it worked well overall and everyone was used to it flaws and all and there was balance between pkers and skillers.

#29
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there will never be a pvp utopia, mainly because everyone has a different vision of it. mine is no rules or "honour" and no 26king, and good drops for those who fight well, but that wouldnt be ideal for others because of their pking preferences, and as such there can not be a pvp "utopia"

I'm gonna be walking down an alley in varrock, and walka is going to walk up to me in a trench coat and say "psst.. hey man, wanna buy some sara brew"

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#30
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inb4tl;dr



Good post, though, I agree with everything you said. Arrogance is a HUGE issue with not just the PvP updates but MOST updates. Countless times in the past has Jagex taken ideas from players and warped them to fit their own agendas, just because they couldn't bear to create something that wasn't of their own ingenuity. With the bug that cost one poor guy 350m, Jagex apologized and then had the gall to say "I gave you an apology, and that doesn't happen very often."



Imo, the best solution to the PvP update is to keep the auto-skull, but remove the "no protect item" thing on all worlds, and make it where you cannot attack another player (retaliations are an exception) unless you are risking 75k aside from your most expensive item (aka the one you would protect). This would enable one-iteming, but one itemers would not be "mosquitoes" but instead easy prey. If they wanted to one-item, they'd have to risk 75k and therefore they'd quickly bankrupt themselves by dying so easily. The biggest issue with one-itemers in the past has been that they waste your supplies, but when you kill them you get nothing and they lose nothing. This would fix that.


the idea of not being able to attack unless risking 75k is awesome for fixing the 1 itemers but i doubt many people would be happy.
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#31
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there will never be a pvp utopia, mainly because everyone has a different vision of it. mine is no rules or "honour" and no 26king, and good drops for those who fight well, but that wouldnt be ideal for others because of their pking preferences, and as such there can not be a pvp "utopia"




Exactly. And that is what Jagex is trying to do. They continuously update PvP attempting to make it better, but they always end up doing something wrong. I may sound like another anti-Jagex ranter there, but that's not Jagex's fault for messing up their updates. They can't help it. When they try to please everyone, it's inevitable that they will mess up. So what needs to happen is Jagex understand what we DO need and what we DON'T need. Part of doing so will be making people unhappy, but it's necessary for a real fix to be achieved.

#32
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+1



Other than I'm a firm beleiver of, you get what your oponent drops. Meh, rsclassic was a good era.





Also, I think jagex listened to too many people WHO DON'T PK but wanted to chip in on there mouth full. -.-







Ahh dear, back when the pirate hut in deep wildy was good training, an exciting too. <3: (I loved rs back in 01-03)

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#33
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Nice read (better then some of the Tip.it articles tbh).



I think the best option would be to go back to the drawing board.



Like you said simplicity was the key, back in those days you could PK someone and know you got a fair share of what they where holding.
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#34
Zaaps1
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Also, I think jagex listened to too many people WHO DON'T PK but wanted to chip in on there mouth full. -.-




Yes, that's another major problem. Jagex is taking the advice of people who don't necessarily care about the system.

#35
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Well, if you want a utopia, how about this?



It is around 10% of people who pvp, right? Yet a good third of the topics now are about pvp. And this 10% of players, and by trying to appease them, has effectively screwed the other 90% just trying to play the game.



Get rid of pvp and tell the kids to go play WoW.



Problem solved. :geek:
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#36
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They around 10% of people pvp, right? Yet a good third of the topics now are about pvp.


Source? :geek:
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#37
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They around 10% of people pvp, right? Yet a good third of the topics now are about pvp.


Source? :geek:




I don't remember, but it's been widely accepted that the average number of players who regularly PVP is around 10%.
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#38
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They around 10% of people pvp, right? Yet a good third of the topics now are about pvp.


Source? :geek:




I don't remember, but it's been widely accepted that the average number of players who regularly PVP is around 10%.

Widely accepted by the players that dont pvp? ;) TBH I find that non pvpers and pvpers tend to be on other sides of the world if you catch my drift.
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#39
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My personal thoughts are that you can only recieve as much as the opponent is risking.


If you get the same,RWT. If less,thats less reward for an already high risk.



my response


Also that the person you kill cannot of been on your friends list in the past 48 hours. (This may end DM's, but as you have stated, not everyone can be satisfied.)


Clan chats could be a loophole.



my response


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#40
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Fine, whatever. Point is, the amount of people regularly PVPing is a slim majority compared to the amount of regular players, and they're damn PVPing is screwing up stuff for the rest of us.



So just scratch the whole thing, have RS carve out a niche as a non-pvp game, and let the PVPers move on to WoW or Guild Wars.
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