The 'Fine then, you fix it!' PVP thread.

[Kietaro1]

Well with all the negativity surrounding the PvP updates how would you guys (and girls) make PvP into a liable activity that would allow for the least amount of people being unhappy? I mean we all complain about all the changes and the effects that it has on the game/economy/welfare of the players so why not try to put together an idea that would make it the best PvP out there.

 

 

 

I will provide my idea but it was written when the No items kept on death came into effect and before +1 worlds so keep that in mind. Please provide your ideas and let us discuss what makes PvP worth doing, would allow for profits, and keeps things balanced.

 

[hide=]The majority of Runescape players have been affected by recent PVP changes. Whether they are riding the wave of 76k-ing or sticking to their guns regarding the spirit of the game, they are part of what is happening in the current economic problem that I feel we are a part of. Some would argue that the economy will catch up and correct itself. Others argue that the players playing legitimately are being hurt by the new influx of coins. Still others (myself included) continue on, affected very little by everything that has happened as they tend to be self sufficient. So with all of these game styles and attitudes toward game play what realistic steps can Jagex take to stop the creation of gold pieces via 'tricking' while keeping the PvP crowd happy?

 

 

 

Currently the PvP system is step up to randomly generate drops for the person dealing the most damage to a target. This can include some of the inventory items of the dying player but more often than not will result in little to nothing of value. That is of course unless the player has potential that they can accumulate for doing pretty much anything (or nothing) while on a PvP server. With higher potential, the player has a much better chance of getting something of worth, including the statues that many players think are the cause of the recent [bleep]e in the overall economy. Other rewards take the form of brawler gloves which are PvP specific that offer up to 4 times the amount of experience normally gained, PvP specific armor that degrades after about an hour of use, and corrupted dragon armor that offers Free To Play players the opportunity to use member's items for a short time. Ironically enough however, most PvP-ers care only about the amount of gold that they can earn while killing other players. PvP has always revolved around getting the drops of the other player thus making it a profitable venture. The potential loss of PvP in the past kept players from constantly trying to reap the potential gains of killing other players for their items. With the new system we see many players 'hugging' or using low leveled items to reduce damage so as to get free potential. This cuts out the majority of the risk and increases the gains that most PvP-ers can earn thus making PvP-ing incredibly profitable for most that participate. The current system seems to even promote this mentality by rewarding those that use this method with incredible amounts of gold... for quite literally, nothing. This, to many, is a problem that needs to be remedied. I agree.

 

 

 

There are many remedies that players throw out while discussing how the PvP system can be changed in order to facilitate the RTW problem and keeping PvP enjoyable. Solutions need to make PvP fun, rewarding, and challenging all the while not allowing players to 'give' in game wealth to other players.

 

 

 

A solution that I feel would offer all of these things would be to do away with players losing items on death against other players. Essentially the player would die and retain all of their items, leaving the victor with some type of collectable reward that they could use to purchase PvP rewards. This would make PvP more like a mini-game and entice new players to fight others. This would give current PvPers the freedom to kill all that they wanted, new PvPers the ability to learn the ropes, and people like me, who are apathetic towards the whole PvP scene a reason to participate. This would not create any obsessive new wealth like the statues currently do, nor would we see a massive loss of items to death.

 

 

 

Since the victor would no longer gain the items of the downed player, there would have to be some way of tracking their death total. Currently there are two PvP high scores that could be retained but as another added incentive, players would be able to pick up tokens that they would use for the true rewards of PvP. These tokens could take the form of anything from points similar to Barbarian Assault that are not 'physically' owned by the player to 'ears' dropped by the player's fallen foes. In the same fashion as the current system, the players would be judged on the kill to determine if a token was earned and PvP targets would offer an increased number of tokens. As a potential way to take advantage of the system would no doubtably result in players dying to their friends for the tokens, some/each of the reward items would need tokens from both random PvP-ing and targets via Bounty Hunter worlds. This would make the rewards more difficult to achieve, take the value out of 'hugging', and make PvP much more engaging. Each random kill on a PvP world would result in a lower number of tokens, rogue kills would offer slightly more, and target kills would offer the most giving more of an incentive for players to participate in legitimate PvP but would not take the fun out of fighting your friends to determine who the better fighter is.

 

 

 

Another way to manipulate the system would be to combat NPCs opting to do so on PvP worlds so as to not lose items on death. On PvP worlds where this could really be taken advantage of, players would still lose items on death to monsters. This would include if the monster dealt the most damage, i.e. a GWD boss monster doing damage to a player, then part of the team pilling the player to save him from losing items. A player would still get gravestones when killed by NPC monsters but if the final blow was done by a player, the killing player would still receive tokens. Though GWD was given as an example, boss hunting should be done away with on PvP servers. All other skills could still be trained as usual. Potential would still exist and only serve as a way for players to get increased tokens or brawlers from kills. This potential, along with gambling in the reward shop, would serve as the only ways to get brawler gloves. Without potential, brawler gloves would not be a possible drop making skilling on PvP still beneficial for those willing to take the risk.

 

 

 

 

 

Rewards:

 

Item Tab

 

Gamble: Gambling would result in a random reward from many of the potential rewards from PvP-ing. No PvP armor. If player receives brawlers, the player receives a random pair. Includes current drops such as armor pieces, bows/arrows, foods, potions, etc.

 

PvP armor sets: Any piece of the current PvP armor.

 

PvP skills:

 

Combat Tokens: Used during combat with other players. Offers the player the ability to perform one time use actions during combat. Much like special attacks. Similar to teleport tablets. Adds a much needed change to current PvP combat. (see below).

 

Armor care: Allows the player to use the PvP armor for increased times. Carries over to Barrows and FoG rewards. 3 levels of effectiveness.

 

Teleports to PvP intensive areas

 

 

 

Consumable Tab

 

Potions

 

Food

 

Arrows

 

etc.

 

 

 

The way that the consumable tab would work is that it would tie into the GE, giving the players the option to sell any of the available items from players using their tokens as payment. The selling player would get medium price for the items and there would be a setting when selling to accept PvP trades. This would drain tokens from the market, give skillers a benefit from PvP, and offer PvPers the chance to do more of what they do best, and make PvP affect more of the game in a positive way.

 

 

 

 

 

Combat Tokens

 

 

 

Combat tokens are tablets that would allow players in PvP combat a more varied combat situation. These tabs would be one time use and require that the player buy them from PvP rewards. For combat tokens the effect is guaranteed making the tabs very useful in combat. Tokens lost in battle fall to the ground and can be picked up by the other player. The special bar affects how many tokens can be used as each uses portions of the special attack when used.

 

 

 

These tokens are 'class' specific as determined by the 'combat bonuses' of the armor worn by the player. A player wearing full rune for instance will only be able to use melee tokens, while a player using mage robes would be able to use mage tokens. This would require that a new stat be added to weapons and armor giving them a 'combat bonus'. Each piece of 'class' specific armor would give a combat bonus of 1 on PvP worlds.

 

 

 

Currently players can have 11 slots for equipment. For a player to be considered one class or another they will need at least 7 combat bonuses for that specific fighting style. A mage, for instance, might equip an Ancient staff(+1 mage), ahrims top, bottom, hood (+3 mage), infinity boots (+1 mage), infinity gloves(+1 mage), and a mage's book(+1). This would give the player the mage class for token use. The player could use the additional spaces for whatever armor they wished to use.

 

 

 

Melee

 

Rage - Increases Strength and Attack by 15% for one attack, lowers defense by 5, guarantees at least half of max hit.

 

Frenzy - Reduces Attack 5% but causes next 4 attacks to hit at double speed.

 

Battle Haste - Potions and Food require less time to consume but are only 80% as effective.

 

Rally - With a shield equipped, melee fighters take their combat turn to boost their combat stats.

 

Combat tortoise - Increases defense 20% when player has less than 25% health.

 

Guthixian Balance - Divides sum of hp among both combatants + special regenerates at half speed 100% Spec Drain

 

Zammorak's Rage - Stores damage done by opponent for 3 rounds of combat and returns 100% to attacker 100% Spec Drain

 

Saradomin's Peace - Cancels all actions of combat for 3 rounds for both players 100% Spec Drain

 

Stun - Stuns opponent for 2 rounds of combat, opponent can still eat/heal

 

Concentration - Increases Attack and Defense 10% for duration, reduces Strength 10%

 

 

 

Range - Attack Tokens require arrows

 

Robin's Speed - Increases speed of equipped bow, lowers accuracy

 

Robin's Luck - Increases Defense by 10 for 3 hits, Increase damage done by 10 (minimum of 10) for one attack,

 

Snipe - Increase range of equipped bow to maximum + guaranteed hit + damage done reduced by 5 (minimum of 5)

 

Aim Arm - If successful, reduce Attack by 15% on next hit

 

Aim Leg - Reduce opponent's run energy by 20% + running decreases twice as fast + toggles run off

 

Aim Chest - removes potion effects

 

Push - knocks opponent back 2 squares + free attack

 

Shove - knocks opponent back 4 squares + free attack

 

Pummel - knocks opponent back 4 squares + free attack + 2 second stun

 

Dodge - gives player chance to negate damage done for one attack

 

 

 

Mage - Attack Tokens require runes

 

Boosted Teleport Block - increases chance to teleblock players

 

*Food Fountain - Damage done is negated by consuming random food in inventory, lasts one hit regardless of damage done. 70% Special drain

 

*Food Stream - Damage done is negated by consuming random food in inventory, lasts until food is gone. 80 % Special drain

 

Generic Magic Attack 1 - Makes next attack have 100% accuracy 20% Special Drain

 

Generic Magic Attack 2 - Makes next attack have 100% accuracy + chance to poison 30% Special Drain

 

Generic Magic Attack 3 - Makes next attack have 100% accuracy + chance to bind 40% Special Drain

 

Ranger's Bane - For 3 rounds of combat, opponent using ranged suffers 65% accuracy loss. 35% Special Drain

 

Sudden Reversal - If next melee attack would land, the damage is done to the enemy instead. 50% Special Drain

 

Life Drain - Drain opponent's life at a 1:1 ratio for damage done (similar to Guthan's affect) 20% Special Drain

 

Special Drain - Drain opponent's special meter by 10%, special meter replenished by 7% 10% Special Drain

 

 

 

All - Can be used by all combat types

 

Disarm - disarms the opponent's weapon until they reequip it. 25% Special Drain

 

*Minor Heal - Uses food in inventory to heal max of 10 damage, does not interrupt attacks 60% Special Drain

 

*Major Heal - Uses food in inventory to heal max of 20 damage, does not interrupt attacks 80% Special Drain

 

Item: Potion - Uses choice of potion in inventory, does not interrupt attacks 50% Special Drain

 

 

 

 

 

Combat Bonus Table - All armor, gear, and weapons give + 1 to their respective bonus unless otherwise specified.[/hide]

 

 

 

Eh that is bare bones but I think you get the idea.

[viralaether]

:o

 

lots of words, good words i like it.

 

 

 

my own ideas;

 

 

 

 

 

1) same as current pvp but you cannot receive more then your opponent loses

 

2) take out pvp :thumbsup:

 

3) traditional pvp (old wildy style) BUT

 

-----(a) opponents names would be somehow replaced so you don't know who you are attacking

 

-----(B) not moving/eating/attacking for X amount of time you would be teled to another spot in same lvl wildy (this way you cant ----- say "meet up at fortress ill be the one with the snelm")

[Agent1777]

As some1 said in another thread, your drops worth can not be over how much your opponent was risking.

[ilovecuttingyews]

One of the first PVP topics that have actually had half decent suggestions. I have only skimmed over it but it looks pretty interesting.

 

 

 

I dont PVP much but I think this could get me interested in it.

 

 

 

Have you posted this to the RSOF's Suggestions? Because I am sure Jagex reads that forum and this is writen well enough to seriously catch their attention.

[Kietaro1]

One of the first PVP topics that have actually had half decent suggestions. I have only skimmed over it but it looks pretty interesting.

 

 

 

I dont PVP much but I think this could get me interested in it.

 

 

 

Have you posted this to the RSOF's Suggestions? Because I am sure Jagex reads that forum and this is writen well enough to seriously catch their attention.

 

Perhaps I will but I was looking more of a way to perfect PvP. With the amount of discussion regarding how badly Jagex is 'fixing' the current system, I thought that we might be able to provide a way to make the best PvP there could be. Once we develop the ins and outs of what we would want, I could rehash it and post in on the RSOF. I think that is the best bet that we have for getting exactly what we want. There are after all many veteran players here with great insights. I am positive that their ideas would make a perfect or Utopian PvP.

[motocrossbri]

and that is why i love you bestfriend

[Kietaro1]

and that is why i love you bestfriend

 

Explain?

[999134]

people would just go around dieing in really expensive armour to their friends for free points if your idea was put into place :?

[Laura]

As some1 said in another thread, your drops worth can not be over how much your opponent was risking.

You can only have that if you kill PvP or bring back RWT. Having a small chance (because if it was large it would open the door to RWT) at what your opponent was risking would kill PvP.

[Death123141]

As some1 said in another thread, your drops worth can not be over how much your opponent was risking.

You can only have that if you kill PvP or bring back RWT. Having a small chance (because if it was large it would open the door to RWT) at what your opponent was risking would kill PvP.

 

I think they should just implement it but with a limit to stop people(if any one still does)75k.

[Master_Smither]

That is a very nice idea you have there, however it's very complex and when Jagex trys to make things very complex they tend to fail. Simplicity is the thing that will fix Pvp.

[Laura]

As some1 said in another thread, your drops worth can not be over how much your opponent was risking.

You can only have that if you kill PvP or bring back RWT. Having a small chance (because if it was large it would open the door to RWT) at what your opponent was risking would kill PvP.

 

I think they should just implement it but with a limit to stop people(if any one still does)75k.

I'm not sure I understand.

[Death123141]

As some1 said in another thread, your drops worth can not be over how much your opponent was risking.

You can only have that if you kill PvP or bring back RWT. Having a small chance (because if it was large it would open the door to RWT) at what your opponent was risking would kill PvP.

 

I think they should just implement it but with a limit to stop people(if any one still does)75k.

I'm not sure I understand.

 

Like if your opponent dies with 100m you shouldn't be able to get 100m it should be capped with a zaros and the random junk you get with it but you shouldn't be able to get a zaros if you opponent only risks the minimum of 75k.

[Kenneh]

Pre 12-10-07

[jonni]

Pre 12-10-07

 

qft

 

one can dream, can't they?

[toast647]

There's only one +1 P2P world, it's constantly packed with people. I went PKing yesterday and I got PJed 5 times in one fight. It's ridiculous. They should probably also fix it, so you actually have to press protect item too. :roll:

[Kietaro1]

people would just go around dieing in really expensive armour to their friends for free points if your idea was put into place :?

 

Right, but with the system that I have developed, so?

 

 

 

The reward system would be set up for a need of kills that could be anyone (friends included) and other kills that would be randomly selected from bounty hunter. Obviously the friend kills would require less effort and therefore require more kills while Bounty hunter type kills would be more random and require more effort and need less tokens for the rewards. This would, in my opinion make hugging completely useless.

 

 

 

A system for detected whether a kill would be worthy of tokens would also need to be put into place. This would make kills take more time and require that the player actually try during fights so that people could not just try to kill the same person over and over with no armor on.

[Kietaro1]

Pre 12-10-07

 

qft

 

one can dream, can't they?

 

Not really because Jagex is pretty open with the fact that this will not happen. Some good news for you guys is that RSC will one day rise from the ashes and allow for your classic PvP (which in my opinion was the best). This however in no way helps the current conversation unless you can provide a way that would allow for pre-12-10-07 gameplay to be implemented behind the rules Jagex has in place.

[Kietaro1]

As some1 said in another thread, your drops worth can not be over how much your opponent was risking.

You can only have that if you kill PvP or bring back RWT. Having a small chance (because if it was large it would open the door to RWT) at what your opponent was risking would kill PvP.

 

I think they should just implement it but with a limit to stop people(if any one still does)75k.

I'm not sure I understand.

 

Like if your opponent dies with 100m you shouldn't be able to get 100m it should be capped with a zaros and the random junk you get with it but you shouldn't be able to get a zaros if you opponent only risks the minimum of 75k.

 

I think that this is a great idea that would fix the current PvP system that we have. My question is, is the PvP system that we have any good? How would we make it better?

[Kietaro1]

That is a very nice idea you have there, however it's very complex and when Jagex trys to make things very complex they tend to fail. Simplicity is the thing that will fix Pvp.

 

Actually I thought of that when coming up with the idea and opted out of alot of my more extravagant ideas. That being said, the following is how this idea would be made simply.

 

 

 

But then my idea was not to be the focus of this thread. Can you support your idea of simplicity with some ideas that would make PvP worthwhile and balanced?

 

 

 

[hide=Simplicity]Code Concepts:

 

 

 

Redo the Safe Clan Wars code to incorperate the entire world map and the wilderness accordingly. This would allow for fighting and deaths of all players everywhere with the exception of level restrictions in place as they currently are. The basic idea is combat without loss to the fallen and without immediate gain to the victor.

 

 

 

I am sure that the system used currently to determine the worht of a kill is great and maybe I will touch on some of the code concepts there but this is how I would do that code.

 

 

 

:combat starts:

 

Worthy = int Worth

 

Player 1 current hp = int Hp1 'the following information would be stored at the start of the fight then compared at the end of the fight to see if it has worth

 

Player 2 current hp = int Hp2 'everytime new combat would start, the values would be reset and destroy the worth of many PJ-er's efforts

 

Player 1 heal = int Heal1

 

Player 2 heal = int Heal2

 

Player 1 combat level = int combatlvl_P1

 

Player 2 combat level = int combatlvl_P2

 

Total Combat Rounds = int C_Rounds

 

Player 1 potion use = bool pot_P1

 

Player 2 potion use = bool pot_P2

 

Player 1 prayer use = bool pray_P1

 

Player 2 prayer use = bool pray_P2

 

Player 1 combat tab use= bool C_Tab_P1

 

Player 2 combat tab use = bool C_Tab_P2

 

 

 

:Epic Battle of good versus evil rages for hours, destroying towns, country sides, and all sailing skill data, leaving one player the victor:

 

'use of food to heal would be capped by total Hp so if player is at 90 hitpoints and eats a shark, the heal interger would only store the amount healed and not the full 20

 

 

 

The following example is written from the perspective of Player 1 winning the fight. So 'victor' could be replaced with P1 in the real code.

 

 

 

(P1)victor_damage = Heal2 + Hp2

 

(P2)loser_damage = Heal1 + Hp1 - current health

 

 

 

If combatlvl_[victor] < combatlvl_[loser]: then: Worth = Worth++

 

'adds a value of 1 to the current value of worth.

 

If combatlvl_[victor] = combatlvl_[loser]: then: Worth = Worth++

 

If [loser]_damage > .25([victor]_damage): then: Worth = Worth++

 

If C_Rounds > 5: then: Worth = Worth ++

 

If C_Rounds > 50:then: Worth = Worth - 5

 

'check can be increased if a reasonable combat can take more than 50 rounds

 

If players switched 'classes' then: Worth = Worth++

 

 

 

'following code for combat checks

 

If pot_P1 = true or pot_P2 = true then: combat_checks = combat_checks ++

 

'noncombat potions do not count

 

If pray_P1 = true or pray_P2 = true then: combat_checks = combat_checks ++

 

'noncombat prayers do not count - includes Protect Item

 

If C_Tab_P1 = true or C_Tab_P2 = true then: combat_checks = combat_checks ++

 

 

 

'I am sure that once the mechanics of the combat tabs were worked out, there would be some that would affect Worth

 

 

 

If pot_[victor] = yes: then: combat_checks = combat_checks ++

 

If pray_[victor] = yes: then: combat_checks = combat_checks ++

 

If C_Tab_[victor] = yes: then: combat_checks = combat_checks ++

 

 

 

If victor_damage < [loser] total hp: then: combat checks = combat_checks - 1

 

If victor_damage > [loser] total hp: then: combat_checks = combat_checks ++

 

If combatlvl[victor] > combatlvl[loser]: then: combat_checks = combat_checks - 1

 

If combatlvl[victor] < combatlvl[loser]: then: combat_checks = combat_checks ++

 

 

 

If combat_checks > 3: then: Worth = Worth ++

 

If combat_checks > 7: then: Worth = Worth ++

 

If combat_checks = 11: then: Worth = Worth ++

 

 

 

If rogue_kill = true: then: Worth = Worth + 3

 

If bounty_target = true: then: Worth = Worth + 5

 

 

 

'all the above would serve to give a value to worth that would decide if the victor would get a token for the kill.

 

'12 total possible points

 

If Worth = 12: then: Tokens = Tokens ++

 

If Worth > 8: Then: Tokens = Tokens ++

 

If Worth > 5: Then: Tokens = Tokens ++

 

 

 

If Tokens = 1: then: DROP Token1

 

If Tokens = 2: then: DROP Token2

 

If Tokens = 3: then: DROP Token3

 

 

 

'Each level of tokens would be needed for different rewards within the PvP shops

 

 

 

Of course the final code would not be revealed but this would give an idea of how simple the checks for worth would be in my opinion. Each fight would be independant of every other fight and only affect the current one. This would take away the desire to PJ as it would offer them very little in regards to rewards as the checks would be heavily slanted against them. The system of potential that we currently have would only serve to give the chance of getting a set of brawler gloves. It would be rehidden and not be nearly as important as it is now.

 

 

 

Otherwise the combat formulas would remain the same, no changes at all. The only difference would be the tallies being made during the fight and the checks during the determination of the drop.

 

 

 

Combat Tabs would be the exact same as special move usage and therefor not need much in the area of code for usuage. It would be something along the lines of the following:

 

 

 

Player clicks tablet in inventory

 

Special bar reduced by tablet usage

 

Animation plays (exactly like specials except each would have their own taking 1 round of combat)

 

Effects are determined via normal combat means though some would take some additional programing

 

The total rounds of combat interger defined above as C_Rounds would serve as a way of controlling the effects of the tabs though this would be complex.

 

 

 

Other than the combat tab outcomes, this programing would be very simple and should not take too much time to perfect. Heck I could do it given the ins and outs of how combat works in Runescape and as you can see above I only know the basics of programing.

 

 

 

Bottom line, it should not be too complicated to write, I even did the hard part myself.][/hide]

[n64jive]

What language is that? Pseudo-Basic-Java++? Just joking. A massive row of If-statements = much lag tho. Wouldn't exactly call it efficient(if it had to run all those checks constantly it's execution time would be terrible)

[Kietaro1]

I think that you are focusing on the wrong part of the message I was trying to put across. I am a bad programmer, I admit that but I could write the checks very easily so I am sure that Jagex could do it better. A program like that one would run very quickly though. It is less than 50 lines of code and very easy to execute as there are no loops at all. Just runs straight through.

 

 

 

But anyway, the code concepts would not be that difficult.

[muggiwhplar]

 

 

 

:thumbup:

[Calzo]

Remove pvp worlds along with the generated drops.

 

 

 

Bring back the old bh but limit the worlds and make it so god armours are not allowed to be brought into the craters.

[stonewall337]

and that is why i love you bestfriend

 

 

 

 

 

Moto has lost like 11 Fire Capes Pking.