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Never Underestimate the value of the cent


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#21
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Give it a few years and the cent won't even exist anymore.
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#22
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so in retrospec Unless they post a sign stating that you can only pay in certain ways its fair game? :?:




No, that law simply means that they have to acknowledge that pennies are legal tender whether or not they accept them.



Since it is a private business, they can choose to accept payment in whatever form they want, posting a sign is not required. Something analogous would be a high end restaurant with a dress code, they don't need a sign that says formal attire required but they can refuse to serve someone who comes in wearing jeans and a tank top.



I think the main point to that law is a. you have to acknowledge that a penny=1/100 dollars and b. money can be used for any debt.



edit--there may be an exception if the store policy is something very odd; for instance if the store only accepted nickels and 5 dollar bills it may have to post a sign.
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#23
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edit--there may be an exception if the store policy is something very odd; for instance if the store only accepted nickels and 5 dollar bills it may have to post a sign.


Does such a store exist? :?



That video was much less awesome then it should have been. That lady had no control over his car being towed. If he had been giving the person who towed his car a hard time, it would be amazing. He was just being a complete jerk, because he's too stupid to know where to park.
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#24
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Should've took them, then said she counted them and there was only 7999.

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#25
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Should've took them, then said she counted them and there was only 7999.




That's what i was thinking all this time couldnt they sue or something if they did all of this and it was less then the amount of stated.



+



its not like they counted all them of them they assumed (my guess) that she trusted it was that amunt to get rid of this whole big hassle so they might have gotten ripped

#26
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Things like this happened many times in my town, over parking violations. The police station bought a change counting machine, and now no one bothers with pennies. :mrgreen:

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#27
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First off, that video's hilarious.



Second, don't places of business have the right to refuse service to people who are being [bleep]s or something?




Under normal circumstances, yes. You can refuse anyone service if you want (not on a basis of race, gender, religion ect...). However this is entirely different, since they had his car.


It's not the woman's job to count pennies. If he wants his car back then he can walk home and roll them up or come up with some bills then come back.




Why not? If I paid her in bills, she'd have to count them AND add them, seeing as I live in America, where there aren't any $88 bills. If your car is towed, it's your duty to come up with the fee, and she is being paid to handle whatever paperwork is entailed AND ensure the payment is the appropriate amount. That's EXACTLY her job, in fact, it's what she's being paid for.



Admittedly, it's a damn lot harder to count 8,800 pennies than add up four twenties, a five, two ones and four quarters, but the quantity is more or less irrelevant.



Under normal circumstances, yes, a business can create policy that dictates what forms of payment are acceptable, and what forms are not. However, this is when dealing with customers, more or less. Evidently the police who enforced this are going completely off what the boy said (possible), or they are aware of the situation better than we are, particularly about any restrictions on how you're allowed to handle such transactions.



As far as whether he had the right to do it... he sure did, in my opinion. If the police were correct in siding with him, and the law truly did require her to accept the pennies, then it was well within his rights to demand she accept them.



However, it's also not very nice. She's not the one who called in for the car to be towed. She's not the one who actually towed the vehicle. Most importantly, she's not the one who parked it illegally. Her only part in this is being behind the counter, hired to file the paperwork and collect and value payment.



Should've took them, then said she counted them and there was only 7999.




That's what i was thinking all this time couldnt they sue or something if they did all of this and it was less then the amount of stated.



+



its not like they counted all them of them they assumed (my guess) that she trusted it was that amunt to get rid of this whole big hassle so they might have gotten ripped




I walk into the supermarket and buy a cart full of groceries. The total is $46.83. I hand the clerk three ten-dollar bills, two five-dollar bills, five one-dollar bills, three quarters, a nickel, and three pennies. Do they sue me? No, they inform me I'm short a dollar, I acknowledge my mistake, and pull another dollar out of my wallet and hand it over, after checking to make sure I really did make the mistake.



So if she had said it was 8,799 cents (assuming you meant this, because the payment was $88 and not $80), either he could fish out another penny from his pocket and hand it over with a quick apology, or recount it all in front of her. In either case, it means it's taking up even more of her time... so no, it would've been a bad idea, really.

#28
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First off, that video's hilarious.



Second, don't places of business have the right to refuse service to people who are being [bleep]s or something?




Under normal circumstances, yes. You can refuse anyone service if you want (not on a basis of race, gender, religion ect...). However this is entirely different, since they had his car.


It's not the woman's job to count pennies. If he wants his car back then he can walk home and roll them up or come up with some bills then come back.




Why not? If I paid her in bills, she'd have to count them AND add them, seeing as I live in America, where there aren't any $88 bills. If your car is towed, it's your duty to come up with the fee, and she is being paid to handle whatever paperwork is entailed AND ensure the payment is the appropriate amount. That's EXACTLY her job, in fact, it's what she's being paid for.


This is what I was thinking.



Yes, the quantity does seem a bit crazy but do you think she would have accepted it if he paid in something like... 88 $1 coins?
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#29
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First off, that video's hilarious.



Second, don't places of business have the right to refuse service to people who are being [bleep]s or something?




Under normal circumstances, yes. You can refuse anyone service if you want (not on a basis of race, gender, religion ect...). However this is entirely different, since they had his car.


It's not the woman's job to count pennies. If he wants his car back then he can walk home and roll them up or come up with some bills then come back.




Why not? If I paid her in bills, she'd have to count them AND add them, seeing as I live in America, where there aren't any $88 bills. If your car is towed, it's your duty to come up with the fee, and she is being paid to handle whatever paperwork is entailed AND ensure the payment is the appropriate amount. That's EXACTLY her job, in fact, it's what she's being paid for.


This is what I was thinking.



Yes, the quantity does seem a bit crazy but do you think she would have accepted it if he paid in something like... 88 $1 coins?


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and legally she doesn't have to accept it unless it's rolled. gorram. lol weed.

#30
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edit--there may be an exception if the store policy is something very odd; for instance if the store only accepted nickels and 5 dollar bills it may have to post a sign.


Does such a store exist? :?



That video was much less awesome then it should have been. That lady had no control over his car being towed. If he had been giving the person who towed his car a hard time, it would be amazing. He was just being a complete jerk, because he's too stupid to know where to park.




You know what they say about misery...



He himself is probably not very happy, seeing as he was essentially fined $88 for a foolish error, not to mention, forced to walk home. At this point, he just wants to share the grief.



Not exactly honorable behavior, but unfortunately, it's well within his rights, the way he did it. I thought the video was quite entertaining, if only for the fact that the problem could've been entirely averted by her doing her job, then reporting it to a manager. Instead, she dragged it on for an hour and involved SEVEN policemen (wait a moment, why exactly do you need SEVEN policemen to simply tell someone legally they have to accept the pennies? Ah, I digress), which is quite ridiculous.



It sounds ridiculous, but think about it. You're at a fancy restaurant, and have a seizure. In the process, you destroy several wineglasses and plates, and scatter bits and pieces of them on the table, chairs, and floor, as they rush you out. Someone has to clean that up, you know. The unfortunate (or should I say, fortunate, as they actually HAVE a job in today's economic state) employees responsible for cleaning get to bite the bullet, and clean up the disaster.



In a case like this, where it's intentional grief-causing mischief, I'd say she would've been far better off taking the payment, counting out the 8,800 pennies, sending the kid on his way without giving him the satisfaction of his Youtube fame, then call to the management. Explain what happened, and make sure it doesn't happen again. Getting seven (why?) policemen involved and wasting an hour seems quite futile to me.



And the law does NOT say anything about not having to accept coins before they're rolled. An individual business might have such a policy, but this place evidently doesn't. And remember, the restrictions on their policy may be MUCH stricter as they are essentially taking someone's property for various reasons. In theory, this is a job for government entities, but it's contracted out to towing businesses. That means towing businesses have to deal with quite a bit of federal bureaucracy, and I doubt any of us know what sort of regulations are in place.



Either the cops do know, and they were right in that the money does NOT have to be rolled, or even SEVEN cops were not aware of such a law.



On that, I have a slightly irrelevant story to mention.



There was once a business that paid its employees bonuses in silver dollars. Silver coins are traded far above face value, as you hopefully all know. However, the business filed tax information based on face value, which really irked the IRS. $500 worth of silver coins is a lot more than $500. More like $10,000, which is an awful lot of lost tax revenue. This case became a huge issue, went to court several times.



What does this have to do with this case? Well, eventually, it was settled, and the business was forced to report the coins at their actual value. However, the business was NOT penalized additionally, on grounds that the law gets too complicated, with contradictions, interpretations, invalidation, and exceptions. Even well-educated tax lawyers were not in agreement on how taxes should be filed, and many were unaware of some lesser known laws. This is relevant because federal laws are like that: mired in red tape. If out of seven officers of the law, not one knew of a requirement for coins to be rolled, then I would not jump to conclusions. There could easily be regulations on towing business we are not aware of.



And DeathDrow, in America, we DO have Dollar-coins (asides from the silver ones). I'm pretty sure the poster meant coins, not bills.

#31
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Sorry for the double post, but this just reaffirms my point. A quick Google search of "Paying in Pennies" brought up a personal website/blog of a man who, frustrated with the sluggishness of government facilities, decides to pay for his car tag in pennies.



The blog itself is quite dull, it mostly goes over what he did to get the pennies and send them and such. However,



So, I'm paying my tags in pennies again this year, but with a new twist? I'm mailing them! Since I have the forms and know the amount, I see no reason to stand in line and argue about whether or not they will accept my pennies. Since I have been paying for things with pennies for years, I have checked with several lawyers and they have all advised me that the government must accept them. To refuse them would undermine the trust and faith in the U.S. dollar and would ultimately lead to economic depression and collapse.




I don't know how accurate this is, but it sure makes sense: the government, state or federal, has to accept any form of their own currency for their services, because ultimately, the value of your currency exists only because the government says so: it's fiat currency.



Towing businesses are licensed to act as agents of the law, to some degree. It makes perfect sense that some of the regulations of government facilities would be passed to them as well. I'm no lawyer (yet), and I have never studied this branch of law, but it's reasonable to assume that the policemen called to the scene were correct.



And seven policemen? Okay, okay, I'll shut up about that now... although it still doesn't make sense.

#32
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edit--there may be an exception if the store policy is something very odd; for instance if the store only accepted nickels and 5 dollar bills it may have to post a sign.


Does such a store exist? :?



That video was much less awesome then it should have been. That lady had no control over his car being towed. If he had been giving the person who towed his car a hard time, it would be amazing. He was just being a complete jerk, because he's too stupid to know where to park.




Probably not, I was speaking purely hypothetically. (there might be something like a hot dog stand that only takes bills though)
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#33
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First off, that video's hilarious.



Second, don't places of business have the right to refuse service to people who are being [bleep]s or something?




Under normal circumstances, yes. You can refuse anyone service if you want (not on a basis of race, gender, religion ect...). However this is entirely different, since they had his car.


It's not the woman's job to count pennies. If he wants his car back then he can walk home and roll them up or come up with some bills then come back.




Why not? If I paid her in bills, she'd have to count them AND add them, seeing as I live in America, where there aren't any $88 bills. If your car is towed, it's your duty to come up with the fee, and she is being paid to handle whatever paperwork is entailed AND ensure the payment is the appropriate amount. That's EXACTLY her job, in fact, it's what she's being paid for.


This is what I was thinking.



Yes, the quantity does seem a bit crazy but do you think she would have accepted it if he paid in something like... 88 $1 coins?


bills*


Nice attempt to correct him on something that he wasn't even wrong about. Just so you know, there are actually a few different $1 coins.



Anyways, if I were the lady I would have just trusted him and taken them to a coin counting machine later. I would rather save hours doing that even if they gave me a few dollars short of the amount due.
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#34
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First off, that video's hilarious.



Second, don't places of business have the right to refuse service to people who are being [bleep]s or something?




Under normal circumstances, yes. You can refuse anyone service if you want (not on a basis of race, gender, religion ect...). However this is entirely different, since they had his car.


It's not the woman's job to count pennies. If he wants his car back then he can walk home and roll them up or come up with some bills then come back.




Why not? If I paid her in bills, she'd have to count them AND add them, seeing as I live in America, where there aren't any $88 bills. If your car is towed, it's your duty to come up with the fee, and she is being paid to handle whatever paperwork is entailed AND ensure the payment is the appropriate amount. That's EXACTLY her job, in fact, it's what she's being paid for.


This is what I was thinking.



Yes, the quantity does seem a bit crazy but do you think she would have accepted it if he paid in something like... 88 $1 coins?


bills*


Nice attempt to correct him on something that he wasn't even wrong about. Just so you know, there are actually a few different $1 coins.



Anyways, if I were the lady I would have just trusted him and taken them to a coin counting machine later. I would rather save hours doing that even if they gave me a few dollars short of the amount due.


oh I know there are coins, I live in canada, we have loonies. I was just saying it's bills, because it's in the U.S.

#35
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It's legal tender. She can't refuse it. Just like the video said, it's a federal crime to refuse legal tender.




No it's not. It's the same thing when places won't accept $50 or $100 dollar bills. Places can accept whatever money they want.


Exactly. I think if it qualifies as "unnecessary" then they don't have to accept it. For example, at my work, we will accept a $50 bill for purchases over $30. Anything less is causing us to give out an unnecessary amount of change.



And at the video; I guess he's entitled to pay in all pennies, but very unnecessary and he's just trying to be funny.

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#36
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oh I know there are coins, I live in canada, we have loonies. I was just saying it's bills, because it's in the U.S.


But the U.S has 1$ coins.....

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oh I know there are coins, I live in canada, we have loonies. I was just saying it's bills, because it's in the U.S.


But the U.S has 1$ coins.....

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Well I know they have coins, but I don't think those are in circulation anymore. anyways, I was being a [bleep] and correcting someone pointlessly, [bleep] off now.

#38
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It's legal tender. She can't refuse it. Just like the video said, it's a federal crime to refuse legal tender.




No it's not. It's the same thing when places won't accept $50 or $100 dollar bills. Places can accept whatever money they want.


Exactly. I think if it qualifies as "unnecessary" then they don't have to accept it. For example, at my work, we will accept a $50 bill for purchases over $30. Anything less is causing us to give out an unnecessary amount of change.



And at the video; I guess he's entitled to pay in all pennies, but very unnecessary and he's just trying to be funny.




If a store has a policy to accept cash then they have to accept every denomination unless both parties agreed to a contract specifying otherwise. This could be verbal, a sign on the door, a note on the menu or a poster on the wall.



Paying with 8,800 pennies is perfectly legal. They do not have to be rolled. It is a FEDERAL crime to refuse legal tender unless otherwise contracted. So long as every one of those 8,800 penies met the requirements by law, she had no choice.



I've done this with many a parking fine and debt collection agency here in Aus and a NZ airport. With 5c coins, not pennies, but the thought behind it is the same. Do it right before closing time if you can :thumbup:

#39
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It's legal tender. She can't refuse it. Just like the video said, it's a federal crime to refuse legal tender.




No it's not. It's the same thing when places won't accept $50 or $100 dollar bills. Places can accept whatever money they want.


Exactly. I think if it qualifies as "unnecessary" then they don't have to accept it. For example, at my work, we will accept a $50 bill for purchases over $30. Anything less is causing us to give out an unnecessary amount of change.



And at the video; I guess he's entitled to pay in all pennies, but very unnecessary and he's just trying to be funny.




If a store has a policy to accept cash then they have to accept every denomination unless both parties agreed to a contract specifying otherwise. This could be verbal, a sign on the door, a note on the menu or a poster on the wall.



Paying with 8,800 pennies is perfectly legal. They do not have to be rolled. It is a FEDERAL crime to refuse legal tender unless otherwise contracted. So long as every one of those 8,800 penies met the requirements by law, she had no choice.



I've done this with many a parking fine and debt collection agency here in Aus and a NZ airport. With 5c coins, not pennies, but the thought behind it is the same. Do it right before closing time if you can :thumbup:


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Folks, even back in the 1970's, your BANK would not accept volumes of pennies from a business unless it was rolled. If you didn't roll it, you had to PAY the bank a FEE for them to count it (or possibly use a counting machine.) And this was even if you had an ACCOUNT there!



Just like ... oh wait ... just like the counting machines that are now available in some grocery stores!! :o



The purpose of the law about "legal tender" has to do with the fact that if people don't "believe" in our paper money and coinage, the system will fall apart. And the reason it requires belief is because the money isn't backed by gold, nor by silver, but by "the full faith and credit" of the US Government, lol.



This does NOT obligate businesses to take amounts they do not wish to take. Decades ago your local convenience store would not accept anything over $20 because kept no more than that in change in the register to try to discourage robberies. (Turned out that by the early 1980's there were idiots willing to kill just for that $17 in change, but who knew?)



Recognising money as legal tender does not obligate you to take it. It's good money, we just ain't takin' it. Now the clerk took an attitude right off, but from the sound of it I'm guessing that this guy had been there before.



I know of NO police station that would send out an officer or officers in order to settle something like this. No matter how quiet the town is, lol. And they definitely are not within their scope of business to "rule" on a point of law they are unfamiliar with. It's one thing to cite someone for drunk and disorderly under statute xx.y.aa - but citing federal law is something else.



After seeing the number of guys there, and the video camera, I'm betting the cops wanted to tell them to just get a life instead of pulling pranks like this, but were afraid of what might be done with the tape.



Ultimately, the woman didn't take the money because he was RIGHT - she took it because her boss decided it would be bad PR and could affect their contract with the city to tow cars. Since the video tape shows the address, their business will probably be negatively impacted anyway.



I also note that although they didn't show her face, these people taped her voice without her permission, which I'm pretty sure is a violation of federal law. Oh, the irony!! :lol:
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