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200M in all Skills

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If you use a set team, every person will be using up their horn at a different rate than other people (unless you always start with everyone who is empty). If one person for any reason needs to go, or if one person fills their horn before the rest, then the rest of the team is [bleep]ed. They have to either sit around waiting for a replacement, or they stop their session and go back to training. The latter would be the best decision.

 

Name one person who is using this strategy you're advocating (filling a horn when a team is available, agiling until it's empty, and then doing another skill until a team is ready again). Name one person who is using this over a lengthy period of time and is also averaging better than 72k Xp/hr from the moment they stop skilling to the moment they empty their horn at the course.

The bolded part is really where you are going wrong. When your horn is empty and you don't have a team, it doesn't disallow you to do anything OTHER than agility, and agility is only one of the 25 skills in runescape. As said, with one full fill per week, you could do agility in 3 years, and managing to get 5 people together for 4 hours a week is VERY easy, particularly for the best players of the game.

 

As also said, agility is a very unpopular skill, and none of the active top 15 has actively trained agility yet, but when they will, it's highly likely they will use horn(or effigies, as i will).

 

Also, BA is much simpler than many would think. You basically only need 2 decent people and the other 3 can afk, still managing full fill in 4,5 hours.

 

1) The method I expressed works just as well for anybody who doesn't want to spend any time doing other skills as well as for people who do. It allows for more adaptability overall than your method.

 

2) I'm not talking about just the top 15. I'm talking about everybody in RuneScape. As far as I can tell, not one player actually does BA and Agility regularly in combo. There are lots of people claiming that it works better than just pure Agility, but I have yet to see any proof of anybody successfully doing it.


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xpx says "As also said, agility is a very unpopular skill, and none of the active top 15 has actively trained agility yet, but when they will, it's highly likely they will use horn(or effigies, as i will)."

 

 

Doesn't SUOMI have 200m agility?


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If you use a set team, every person will be using up their horn at a different rate than other people (unless you always start with everyone who is empty). If one person for any reason needs to go, or if one person fills their horn before the rest, then the rest of the team is [bleep]ed. They have to either sit around waiting for a replacement, or they stop their session and go back to training. The latter would be the best decision.

 

Name one person who is using this strategy you're advocating (filling a horn when a team is available, agiling until it's empty, and then doing another skill until a team is ready again). Name one person who is using this over a lengthy period of time and is also averaging better than 72k Xp/hr from the moment they stop skilling to the moment they empty their horn at the course.

The bolded part is really where you are going wrong. When your horn is empty and you don't have a team, it doesn't disallow you to do anything OTHER than agility, and agility is only one of the 25 skills in runescape. As said, with one full fill per week, you could do agility in 3 years, and managing to get 5 people together for 4 hours a week is VERY easy, particularly for the best players of the game.

 

As also said, agility is a very unpopular skill, and none of the active top 15 has actively trained agility yet, but when they will, it's highly likely they will use horn(or effigies, as i will).

 

Also, BA is much simpler than many would think. You basically only need 2 decent people and the other 3 can afk, still managing full fill in 4,5 hours.

 

1) The method I expressed works just as well for anybody who doesn't want to spend any time doing other skills as well as for people who do. It allows for more adaptability overall than your method.

 

2) I'm not talking about just the top 15. I'm talking about everybody in RuneScape. As far as I can tell, not one player actually does BA and Agility regularly in combo. There are lots of people claiming that it works better than just pure Agility, but I have yet to see any proof of anybody successfully doing it.

1) How does doing no other skills allow more adaptability? You are stuck doing 2 things.

2) People successfully did it for 90-99 agility. Successfully doesn't have to mean for 500mil agility xp. I think if doing it for 7mil xp and get 90k/hr that is enough evidnece that it can be done for longer periods and get 73k/hr

 

I would agree with rawrsicles that is is like cave crawlers which are actually worth the extra cost.

Oh and btw "Jerseyman32" is getting (perhaps got by this stage) 99 slayer on cave crawlers.

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xpx says "As also said, agility is a very unpopular skill, and none of the active top 15 has actively trained agility yet, but when they will, it's highly likely they will use horn(or effigies, as i will)."

 

 

Doesn't SUOMI have 200m agility?

 

Yup.


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xpx says "As also said, agility is a very unpopular skill, and none of the active top 15 has actively trained agility yet, but when they will, it's highly likely they will use horn(or effigies, as i will)."

 

 

Doesn't SUOMI have 200m agility?

Suomi got 200m agility 03/10, horn was released 19/01/10.

 

Care to point out where i'm going wrong.

 

Jebrim, there are LOADS of people who have got 99 with horn. The fact that agility is a VERY unpopular skill and extremely few plan on tens of million experience over 99 is in no way proof that this doesn't work. I guess we'll see when someone in the top 15 starts training agility(which they should actually do with effigies, as that is even more efficient, but w/e).


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First to 3766 Port Score on 20. March, 2014.

First to 4664 Port Score on 2. March, 2015.

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If you use a set team, every person will be using up their horn at a different rate than other people (unless you always start with everyone who is empty). If one person for any reason needs to go, or if one person fills their horn before the rest, then the rest of the team is [bleep]ed. They have to either sit around waiting for a replacement, or they stop their session and go back to training. The latter would be the best decision.

 

Name one person who is using this strategy you're advocating (filling a horn when a team is available, agiling until it's empty, and then doing another skill until a team is ready again). Name one person who is using this over a lengthy period of time and is also averaging better than 72k Xp/hr from the moment they stop skilling to the moment they empty their horn at the course.

The bolded part is really where you are going wrong. When your horn is empty and you don't have a team, it doesn't disallow you to do anything OTHER than agility, and agility is only one of the 25 skills in runescape. As said, with one full fill per week, you could do agility in 3 years, and managing to get 5 people together for 4 hours a week is VERY easy, particularly for the best players of the game.

 

As also said, agility is a very unpopular skill, and none of the active top 15 has actively trained agility yet, but when they will, it's highly likely they will use horn(or effigies, as i will).

 

Also, BA is much simpler than many would think. You basically only need 2 decent people and the other 3 can afk, still managing full fill in 4,5 hours.

 

1) The method I expressed works just as well for anybody who doesn't want to spend any time doing other skills as well as for people who do. It allows for more adaptability overall than your method.

 

2) I'm not talking about just the top 15. I'm talking about everybody in RuneScape. As far as I can tell, not one player actually does BA and Agility regularly in combo. There are lots of people claiming that it works better than just pure Agility, but I have yet to see any proof of anybody successfully doing it.

1) How does doing no other skills allow more adaptability? You are stuck doing 2 things.

2) People successfully did it for 90-99 agility. Successfully doesn't have to mean for 500mil agility xp. I think if doing it for 7mil xp and get 90k/hr that is enough evidnece that it can be done for longer periods and get 73k/hr

 

I would agree with rawrsicles that is is like cave crawlers which are actually worth the extra cost.

Oh and btw "Jerseyman32" is getting (perhaps got by this stage) 99 slayer on cave crawlers.

 

Please reread what I said in 1. I stated that it works for both those that do just agil and those who don't do just agil. The adaptability allows one to choose to do just agility if they wished without being inefficient at all. The method I explained also allows for adaptability when something comes up that disrupts the BA session. Filling the horn from empty to full straight every time won't work in the long run.

 

Concerning those who've "done 90k Xp/hr" from 90-99, I haven't seen any proof of that either. I'd love to see a video sped up 20-50x or so showing the end of a skilling session through to traveling to BA, setting everything up, doing the waves, then all of the agility, and finishing with an empty horn.

 

Don't even compare this to cave crawlers, as that requires a ton of cash and is the main reason most people don't do it.


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As far as I've seen, there are tons of people who train agility exclusively with the horn. Typically, they're just going for 99 agility, not 200m.

 

The horn can be filled fast enough to make it at least equal to regular training, and you only need a good healer and defender really.

 

I agree with xpx that this is best if you're not training agility all the time. You just go to BA whenever you can get a team together. Doesn't matter if you totally fill it up. Afterward, go do agility until horn is empty. When it's empty then you can go do something else.

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xpx says "As also said, agility is a very unpopular skill, and none of the active top 15 has actively trained agility yet, but when they will, it's highly likely they will use horn(or effigies, as i will)."

 

 

Doesn't SUOMI have 200m agility?

Suomi got 200m agility 03/10, horn was released 19/01/10.

 

Care to point out where i'm going wrong.

 

Jebrim, there are LOADS of people who have got 99 with horn. The fact that agility is a VERY unpopular skill and extremely few plan on tens of million experience over 99 is in no way proof that this doesn't work. I guess we'll see when someone in the top 15 starts training agility(which they should actually do with effigies, as that is even more efficient, but w/e).

 

Didn't say you were wrong, i was merely looking for the reason you said no one in the top 15 had trained agility yet. You answered me, thanks ;-)


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As far as I've seen, there are tons of people who train agility exclusively with the horn. Typically, they're just going for 99 agility, not 200m.

 

This is Jebrim's point, everyone. Of course it is technically possible. I have done 91-'99' Agility with the horn as well, managing exp rates of over 100k. After doing that, however, I feel that if you did this for dozens of millions of experience, it would get extremely annoying. You people are underestimating the human factor; you have to deal with other people to get your team together. What if someone lags out in the middle? Who are you going to get to come to wave 7? You'll have to restart and find another teammate. This happens all the time! Go try it for 20M exp and then come back with a 95k+/hr rate. It's not the case of technical possibility, but of combining the needs of five people. Go try it for extended periods of training, and you will see that it isn't as easy as it looks on paper. The same element comes up in Dung, but because it's a "skill"(it being comparable to a mini-game like BA in many ways proves again that it's a mini-game and not a skill), many people are available. Even though the same 90% of the Dung players may be idiots just as well as 90% of the BA players are idiots, there is a far greater number of able players left than at BA. That's all I have to say. Go try it.

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Well I average over 72k/h when actually playing agility and filling horn, but that's not all I do. I understand where you're coming from Jebrim. If agility is your sole focus or you train one skill at a time, and you also play long days, horn filling is not really going to work. You don't need pro BA teammates, but you need fairly competent ones, and to set up that many teams is a staggering challenge. Perhaps an IRC channel for horn filling would be useful to set up.

 

But keep in mind that most of the post-50m agility exp was done before penance horns were released (2010). I think it's fair to say that, even if there aren't any players that have trained a huge amount of exp with the horn right now, there will be when the top players turn to the skill.


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Some people are clearly overestimating the human element- if people do it for purely selfish reasons and it works for one minigame(dungeoneering), it will also work for BA, not to mention, BA is much easier than dungeoneering(where people do 2-4 hour rows) as only 2 people need to be focused, basically.

 

Btw, for charging the horn, you don't want to do full waves, rather only 1-5 or 1-6 and reset. Nothing lost if someone leaves early(and it's not too hard to have a backup). Getting people for BA really isn't as hard as many say it is, particularly if you are organized.


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First to 3766 Port Score on 20. March, 2014.

First to 4664 Port Score on 2. March, 2015.

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Nobody is doing it now, though. Name me somebody who is actually working towards raising their agil past 99 and is doing it steadily over time.

 

By the way, it would be completely inefficient to use just anybody. Pro team or no team.

 

It also might work if you have a group that does a couple hours every day, but this is using my adaptable idea instead of doing from empty to full. In practice, if it's better to do agility with the horn, it's more efficient to prevent your horn from becoming empty.


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Nobody is doing it now, though. Name me somebody who is actually working towards raising their agil past 99 and is doing it steadily over time.

 

By the way, it would be completely inefficient to use just anybody. Pro team or no team.

 

It also might work if you have a group that does a couple hours every day, but this is using my adaptable idea instead of doing from empty to full. In practice, if it's better to do agility with the horn, it's more efficient to prevent your horn from becoming empty.

Nobody is likely doing it as they see agility as a rubbish skill and are waiting or it to be nerfed further(just like suomi got killed somewhat by the horn update). Effigies might also be better than horn, too.

 

Pro teams are not necessary. You need a good healer and defender, but apart from that, for waves 1-5/6, the two attackers and collector can be halfwits and not slow the team down.

 

I don't think it's realistic to build your life around the lives of others, and really, that is in no way necessary.


First to 99 Farming on 27. September, 2005.

First to 3766 Port Score on 20. March, 2014.

First to 4664 Port Score on 2. March, 2015.

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Some people are clearly overestimating the human element- if people do it for purely selfish reasons and it works for one minigame(dungeoneering), it will also work for BA, not to mention, BA is much easier than dungeoneering(where people do 2-4 hour rows) as only 2 people need to be focused, basically.

 

Btw, for charging the horn, you don't want to do full waves, rather only 1-5 or 1-6 and reset. Nothing lost if someone leaves early(and it's not too hard to have a backup). Getting people for BA really isn't as hard as many say it is, particularly if you are organized.

 

I don't agree with your first point because it doesn't work that way in the practical and long-term world. Furthermore, there has never been any proof that doing only the first waves is better, only people claiming things without any evidence whatsoever. From personal experience I found doing full waves(perhaps without the queen) is the fastest way.

 

But I shall shut up now because this is going nowhere. :-P

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Pro teams are required if your interest is to maximise the amount of Xp/hr you received... There's no point in sacrificing an hour or more each time around if you don't need to. Also, not everybody thinks Agility is a [cabbage]ty skill. I run a clan full of people who enjoy training Agility past 99. I've found that most people who hate Agility hate it because they're looking at it the wrong way. Until you reach that trance point, it's really hard to understand. Also, completely irrelevant of my previous arguments, I personally do feel that one would be far less bored doing 200m Agility if they didn't have to take a break from it all the time. Destroying the rhythm of grinding is actually what typically causes people to log out or quit the goal to begin with. The best way I can say to describe this is that it's relaxing and people enjoy relaxing. This is based not only on my personal experiences, but also on the experiences of the hundreds of people I've trained Agility with. You don't set a 200m agil goal (or even 100m) unless you actually enjoy the relaxing portion of grinding. Disrupting that will only end up in worse gains overall and likely the quitting of the goal if you're using xpx's method.


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Just because cave crawlers and agility don't have the common incentive for people not to do the method doesn't mean they can't be used for an accurate comparison. The only thing I see is that no one has done or has any proof, well this discussion I think originally started when Jebrim didn't agree that agility with BA horn is faster. Well I think it has been proven to be faster, if it's possible to do BA waves in approximately 4 hours than that should speak for itself. As for the "setting up and walking there than training agility" (not quoted exactly). The setting up is taking out your BA gear which takes a minute max lol, than games necklace to BA where you have your clan waiting because you have set this up before hand (I know this seems to ideal but I'm just trying to put into perspective how little time it takes). Also about training agility afterwards, the point was it could be trained at any time and when your horn is empty and/or there is a good BA team available then to repeat and rinse lol.

 

I'm sure someone will do it one day, until than let the math speak for itself. Just because some people can't do it, doesn't mean it's not possible. Also we were not talking about practical methods, more along the line of ideal hence efficiency discussions.


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Pro teams are required if your interest is to maximise the amount of Xp/hr you received...

I think the argument is to get over 72k not to maximise. You yourself said over 72k

 

Also, not everybody thinks Agility is a [cabbage]ty skill. I run a clan full of people who enjoy training Agility past 99.

A full clan isn't a massive amount of people. Get over 1000 people and see if anyone would do this. Because that's what we are talking about, you say it will *never* be done, a clan of idk 300 people is not a huge amount. And BTW if I underestimated the size of your clan that is still irrelevent as there still needs to be a huge amount.

 

Destroying the rhythm of grinding is actually what typically causes people to log out or quit the goal to begin with.

What he is saying is that kingduffy will fail because he swaps skills.

 

I hope you realise that gaining 20m agility doesn't even have to be their goal for them to achieve 73k. If they do 1 full horn of agility then woodcut for 2 months and come back to agility they still have not harmed the above 72k figure. If you remember from before in this thread you need to fill a horn in 9 hours to get more than 72k, if 4 hours is an acceptable time with a pro team then if you have people lag out halfway through wave 7 it is still exceedingly easy to fill it in a spare 5 hours. The 4 other players can teleport to castle wars and cut ivy while they wait for the team mate to return. If you're in a clan doing an event every 2 weeks then it may take 20 months to fill the horn enough times for 20mil xp but they get there in the end.

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I believe that everybody has the potential to enjoy Agility. I have helped tons of people learn to enjoy it. The biggest problem is that people look at the grinding the wrong way. Even if you guys are right about BA being better mathematically, it doesn't necessarily mean it's possible. None of the top Agility people I just asked in my clan right now actually said they'd enjoy doing Agility with BA. Without anybody actually completing Agility long-term with the BA horn, I get the impression that there must be a psychological limitation preventing it from being done. Furthermore, as I showed earlier, it is possible to do Agility consistently with the BA horn and not be required to wait by doing another skill. Going from there, it would be easily feasible to see people doing Agility with BA. It's just not happening though. There are lots of people who enjoy doing Agility long-term, but NONE that like doing it with BA. That should say something.

 

I think the biggest fault when people look at Agility is that they dislike the grinding. It's psychologically impossible to do 100m or 200m Agility while hating the grinding. One would quit the goal long before they got close. Therefore the only way to reach it is if one came to enjoy the grinding. If one enjoys the grinding, then they will hate having that grinding be disrupted. BA requires far too much attention and is so not-grindy that anyone doing 200m Agility would literally choose NOT to use it, even knowing that it may give more Xp/hr and even if they enjoy the minigame. This will ultimately culminate in people getting more Xp/day because they'll decide to stay online for longer because they enjoy Agility that much. This may sound dubious, but this is how it works in practice, not in theory where you guys tend to overlook many of the human factors or just presume certain decisions without actually having experienced it fully yourself.

 

tl;dr version:

People who do long-term Agility enjoy the relaxing that is grinding and do not wish to be disturbed by other activities. This is not just me.


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Nobody is going to get 200m Agility gradually over time over the course of 3-5 years while taking a break as often as you guys are claiming they should. It just doesn't work like that. You do big chunks or you don't do it at all. You embrace the grinding or you don't succeed. Until you learn to enjoy the grinding, you will NEVER get 200m Agility. I've been heavily involved in the Agility community for years and have experienced many people aim for post-99 Xp. I know what works and what doesn't. People would willingly choose to not do BA because they'd rather just sit back and relax instead.

 

Until you've completed your own 100m+ Xp in a slow and non-afkable skill, you really can't understand.


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Some people like being efficient. For example I can afk monkfish, but it just feels wrong :S (except when I need strange rocks). So yeah, agility with a horn appeals to some people, just like straight-up grinding does to others. I wouldn't say that's very much an argument in what is best/fastest/most efficient to get 200m in all skills though.


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Another problem that has been loosely touched on is that to do it this way agility would have to be treated like farming - as something to do regularly from an early point as breaks in training other stats. you would want to spend most of your time in a chat for forming ba teams and be prepared to ditch what you are doing at fairly short notice to come and do BA whenever a really good team turned up.

 

This would mean doing it gradually over a long period of time which in turn would mean that you would expect the top players to have started doing it by now if they were planning to. Which they haven't.

 

If they left it too late they would find that they wouldnt be able to go off and do other stats by the end as there wouldnt be other stats for them to go off and do. Plus most top players seem to like to stick to one activity at a time before moving on to another.

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By the way I've found something that actually is wrong with the spreadsheet :P

 

If someone has an effigy pair blocked then there will be a -ve number of lamps used for the second skill. This means that the player will generate effigy lamps from nowhere, which are then used on the next skill that isnt maxed.

 

For example S U O M I generates 1375.8 lamps from having mine/smith blocked, which he then dumps on firemaking, saving him 66m fm xp. Telmomarques generates 2341 effigy lamps in this way, saving 56m farm and prayer xp.

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No one cares, no one at all. I will be getting the most xp in June in a month and I don't really care about xp.

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By the way I've found something that actually is wrong with the spreadsheet :P

 

If someone has an effigy pair blocked then there will be a -ve number of lamps used for the second skill. This means that the player will generate effigy lamps from nowhere, which are then used on the next skill that isnt maxed.

 

For example S U O M I generates 1375.8 lamps from having mine/smith blocked, which he then dumps on firemaking, saving him 66m fm xp. Telmomarques generates 2341 effigy lamps in this way, saving 56m farm and prayer xp.

Thankyou for pointing that out, I think it's fixed now.

 

Telmo seems to have stopped before 200m. He's probably saving space for effigies :P Or maybe he wants to pass drumgun's title in 1 day instead of staying equal with him for months.

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By the way I've found something that actually is wrong with the spreadsheet :P

 

If someone has an effigy pair blocked then there will be a -ve number of lamps used for the second skill. This means that the player will generate effigy lamps from nowhere, which are then used on the next skill that isnt maxed.

 

For example S U O M I generates 1375.8 lamps from having mine/smith blocked, which he then dumps on firemaking, saving him 66m fm xp. Telmomarques generates 2341 effigy lamps in this way, saving 56m farm and prayer xp.

Thankyou for pointing that out, I think it's fixed now.

 

Telmo seems to have stopped before 200m. He's probably saving space for effigies :P Or maybe he wants to pass drumgun's title in 1 day instead of staying equal with him for months.

 

I think he stopped because he wants to have a party, judging by his videos he has held quite a lot of 200m partys. And a party takes a little planning ofcourse


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