200M in all Skills

[Jebrim]

Jebrim - You'd only like an update like that so you can finally be #1 Agil. Just get over yourself and realize no matter how much Agil exp you get, no one will care. Yes you've spent far more hours than anyone else doing Agil. Does that make you the best Agilitizer? No, it doesn't. Romeo got 200m first, he will always be first on the hiscores. 1 billion Agil exp won't change the fact that he got it before you.

 

Also this whole Best Rser debate has been the most interesting thing happen in this thread for a long time.

 

Actually I have no intent on ever competing for #1 on the hiscores and even if I did, I probably wouldn't win. I'd like the update because it'd be good for competition to be revitalized in all skills again, as the current system is terrible and I have always thought so. The update would provide nothing positive towards my own status within Agility and likely would have the opposite effect tbh, bringing in more competition that could eventually pass 1b Xp on a single account.

[SnuGGzZ]

Also this whole Best Rser debate has been the most interesting thing happen in this thread for a long time.

 

Agreed Lol

[Fallstar]

I can't even read this discussion because I cringe every time someone uses "efficiency" incorrectly. It should really only be used with a percentage. There are other cases, but some form of the word "producivity" is always better in those cases.

 

Carry on.

I don't really see the problem. People use efficiency as a layman's term when talking about RS, but you could just as easily define a ratio if you wanted to. Your progress towards goal X in time t/Maximum possible progress towards goal X in time t. That's what I would think of if I were to define efficiency in RS.

 

If someone achieved 200m mining through iron ore, and another did it at LRC, the iron ore guy's achievement isn't greater than the LRC guy. They both achieved the exact same thing, only one of them did it faster. For sure the iron ore guy has to work longer, but that doesn't make his achievement any greater.

 

Lol? Arbitrarily Jagex-given Xp rates are completely irrelevant. At the most, they're only a tool to help measure the real thing, the work actually done. If you pretend Xp did not exist and then looked at the history of the actual gameplay for a player, you'd get a far better way of judging a player's achievements. Tbh this shouldn't even be something I have to argue about, as it's obvious and is the de facto standard accepted by most people I know. The harder something is to achieve, the more people respect it.

 

What you're saying is like saying Gertjaars and Zarfot were equal because they both had 2b Overall Xp or that Blocks is better than Lover Romeo because he has more Overall Xp than him.

 

What I'm saying is nothing like equating Zarfot and Gertjaars actually. I used the example where in the same skill, training using a slower method doesn't make your achievement worth more than someone who uses a faster method. Training two completely different skills is obviously entirely different to that. 200m slay for example, is worth more than say 200m agility or fishing in my eyes, as it has the slowest maximum xp rate.

 

What I am saying, is that if you don't use the maximum xp rate for a skill, that's your decision. It doesn't make your end result worth any more.

[Jebrim]

Then why does a slower skill end up worth more? It's the exact same thing in terms of work. You can't claim that 2 people doing the same amount of work are weighted differently because one of those skills has a faster Xp rate possible. Regardless of whether faster methods exist, they still put in that work and you can't just magically make it go away lol.

 

Regardless of what skill a player is doing or what specific Xp rate they're getting, a person grinding 12 hours a day for 12 months straight on a non-afkable doing a good pace using that content has achieved something greater than someone grinding 6 hours a day for 5 months straight on a semi-afkable at a mostly poor pace for that method. The former has achieved something greater than the latter in ALL cases. Other information is not needed to make a judgement. You, on the other hand, want to use this method for different skills only and not for the same skill, which is completely absurd. They still put in the larger amount of work regardless and you don't want to give them any credit for it, which is a complete insult.

[Fallstar]

Regardless of what skill a player is doing or what specific Xp rate they're getting, a person grinding 12 hours a day for 12 months straight on a non-afkable doing a good pace using that content has achieved something greater than someone grinding 6 hours a day for 5 months straight on a semi-afkable at a mostly poor pace for that method.

 

I fully agree with this bit.

 

However, we are going to have to agree to disagree when it comes to different methods within the same skill. If you want to do a skill by a slower method because you enjoy it, or because you want to prolong the skill, that's fine and understandable. However, doing something by a slower method because you expect your final achievement to be more worthy of respect is ludicrous. Suomi and Jake both have 200m wc. Suomi's method was significantly faster. But at the end of the day, what have they both achieved? 200m wc.

 

You talk about putting 'work' in. If doing a skill is 'work' to you, why would you prolong it? I'm not going to give someone kudos because they spent longer than necessary doing something they don't enjoy.

 

Just to clarify something: If someone trained a skill where the maximum xp rate was different, then that could be more worthy of respect in my opinion. For example, those who slayed before Smoking Kills, or did RC before Runespan, their xp achievements are worth more in my eyes than someone who trained those skills using current methods (and gained an equal amount of xp). But that's because they were still using the fastest possible method available to them at the time. If someone chose to do Slayer now without skipping tasks, that wouldn't be worth more in my eyes than someone who does.

[Platinum_Myr]

I agree with Fallstar. I put value in being able to manage your time wisely, via choosing better methods. However, it depends on what methods were available to you at the time.

[Low Levelled]

Off topic sort of, but I have been wondering. How do the "top players" have enough time to play as much as they do? Like do they have jobs? Do they go to school? How do they support themselves, especially the ones that claim to play 12 hrs almost everyday?

[Hedgehog]

grhjudfio

 

You can make natures runes to 200m rc and be very productive with it. Like never miss a tick or anything.

 

But you're not being allocatively efficient. You're not producing what you should be producing.

 

So the most efficient player would use all their resources (time) effectively and on something that matters (relatively).

[Jebrim]

Regardless of what skill a player is doing or what specific Xp rate they're getting, a person grinding 12 hours a day for 12 months straight on a non-afkable doing a good pace using that content has achieved something greater than someone grinding 6 hours a day for 5 months straight on a semi-afkable at a mostly poor pace for that method.

 

I fully agree with this bit.

 

However, we are going to have to agree to disagree when it comes to different methods within the same skill. If you want to do a skill by a slower method because you enjoy it, or because you want to prolong the skill, that's fine and understandable. However, doing something by a slower method because you expect your final achievement to be more worthy of respect is ludicrous. Suomi and Jake both have 200m wc. Suomi's method was significantly faster. But at the end of the day, what have they both achieved? 200m wc.

 

You talk about putting 'work' in. If doing a skill is 'work' to you, why would you prolong it? I'm not going to give someone kudos because they spent longer than necessary doing something they don't enjoy.

 

Just to clarify something: If someone trained a skill where the maximum xp rate was different, then that could be more worthy of respect in my opinion. For example, those who slayed before Smoking Kills, or did RC before Runespan, their xp achievements are worth more in my eyes than someone who trained those skills using current methods (and gained an equal amount of xp). But that's because they were still using the fastest possible method available to them at the time. If someone chose to do Slayer now without skipping tasks, that wouldn't be worth more in my eyes than someone who does.

 

I'm curious why people made such a big deal over Villandra doing 99 Slayer through just cannoning then if it had nothing do with slower methods. Why do people care about level 3's, if it has nothing to do with slower methods? What about pure F2p's? Pure DIY accounts like Metalmaniac9? The 99 Agility I did from just obstacles at Brimhaven? You may think they're equivalent to normal training methods, but a lot of people think otherwise and make a big deal about it. I'm not talking about which is smarter, just which is more impressive.

 

RS is a game of achievements and going for a lot of Xp is just one way of achieving something. It isn't the only way. I'm going to respect someone who put in a lot more work than someone who didn't put in as much work. How much Xp each player has is irrelevant and is only used as a tool towards figuring out the work. I always convert people's Xp to time and look at how much concentration was needed for the method when I judge people's stats. I've been doing this for hundreds, if not thousands, of people for the past few years.

 

You do the same, but you just want to be stubborn and not be consistent in your position throughout. Instead you want to come up with some arbitrary exception, probably just for the purpose of not wanting to admit you were wrong, which few people are ever able to do in an argument.

[Bobbo]

It is fun to play games and discuss/debate the best tactics, and it is entertaining to cheer on your favourite players as they progress, but to waste so much time and effort arguing about something as meaningless and arbitrary as who is the best at Runescape is truly pathetic.

 

Seriously, it is a great game with a ton of variety. There have been many players that have accomplished many things, and I am sure most of them had fun while doing it. Why not just acknowledge that, celebrate their achievements, and work towards what you enjoy in the game? Nobody gives a shit what your "judgement" of a player's value is. Honestly, nobody does. You can not elevate yourself by judging and tearing down other players.

 

Lover Romeo #1 <3

[Jebrim]

This isn't even about me tbh lmao. I respect Lover Romeo's achievements and believe he's done a lot better than the vast majority of maxed players. But he's nothing compared to Suomi.

[Fallstar]

I'm curious why people made such a big deal over Villandra doing 99 Slayer through just cannoning then if it had nothing do with slower methods. Why do people care about level 3's, if it has nothing to do with slower methods? What about pure F2p's? Pure DIY accounts like Metalmaniac9? The 99 Agility I did from just obstacles at Brimhaven? You may think they're equivalent to normal training methods, but a lot of people think otherwise and make a big deal about it. I'm not talking about which is smarter, just which is more impressive.

 

RS is a game of achievements and going for a lot of Xp is just one way of achieving something. It isn't the only way. I'm going to respect someone who put in a lot more work than someone who didn't put in as much work. How much Xp each player has is irrelevant and is only used as a tool towards figuring out the work. I always convert people's Xp to time and look at how much concentration was needed for the method when I judge people's stats. I've been doing this for hundreds, if not thousands, of people for the past few years.

 

You do the same, but you just want to be stubborn and not be consistent in your position throughout. Instead you want to come up with some arbitrary exception, probably just for the purpose of not wanting to admit you were wrong, which few people are ever able to do in an argument.

 

I'm sure some people do care about those types of accounts, but I don't. I'm not saying that people shouldn't care about those things, just that personally it makes no difference to me if you're level 3 with 99 slayer or level 138 with 99 slayer or anywhere in between. You still have 99 slayer.

 

It's not a case of being right or wrong either; it's a matter of opinion. It's my opinion that using a slower method doesn't make the end goal any more respectable. It's your opinion that it does. That's all there is to it. Also, where exactly have I been inconsistent in my position?

[Thai_tong]

Then why does a slower skill end up worth more? It's the exact same thing in terms of work. You can't claim that 2 people doing the same amount of work are weighted differently because one of those skills has a faster Xp rate possible. Regardless of whether faster methods exist, they still put in that work and you can't just magically make it go away lol.

If someone doesnt enjoy a skill as much as another player and they both completed it in the same time does that mean that the player who doesnt enjoy it put in more "work"? I wouldnt call someone a better rs'er if they hated what they did and still completed it. Up til now you have defined work as both time and attention so why would enjoyment not count as affecting the "work"?

[Jebrim]

I mentioned earlier that it may marginally make it more impressive, since it was more challenging for that person. That of course is debatable. I'm not exactly sure where I stand on that.

[muggiwhplar]

I think it basically boils down to:

 

If someone sets a goal and accomplishes it in an unnecessarily difficult fashion (i.e. 99 slayer @ using cannon only), then do you:

1. Respect them for completing such a challenge

2. Question their thought process for creating such a challenge for themselves in the first place

 

Jebrim and most of the "elite" players seem to lean towards #1, always.

I lean towards #1 as well if the reason why they made the challenge unnecessarily difficult was because it'd be more fun

I lean towards #2 if they considered it "work" and didn't enjoy it.

[Gemeos2]

Reduced the Runecrafting XP rate of my calculator due to the recent Runespan nerf.

 

Here's the time calculator update again, sorry for any inconvenience:

 

# . Name - Hours - Cost - % done

1 . S u o m i - 1,154 - 420,291,755 - 94.0 %

2 . Jake - 7,789 - 9,887,006,428 - 59.7 %

3 . Elvis - 9,015 - 3,925,292,491 - 53.4 %

4 . Drumgun - 9,277 - 13,688,583,342 - 52.0 %

5 . Da broman1 - 9,810 - 16,881,507,906 - 49.3 %

6 . Elias - 9,859 - 2,779,650,306 - 49.0 %

7 . Dragonseance - 10,442 - 16,968,172,893 - 46.0 %

8 . Myrspixels - 10,497 - 1,370,391,898 - 45.7 %

9 . Kingduffy - 10,534 - 14,234,448,580 - 45.5 %

10 . Nico Robin - 11,011 - 21,542,059,585 - 43.1 %

11 . Robbie - 11,349 - 15,539,700,905 - 41.3 %

12 . Klonki - #REF! - #REF! - #VALUE! %

13 . Pope712 - 11,487 - 15,092,679,284 - 40.6 %

14 . Roger Al - 11,775 - 21,106,171,047 - 39.1 %

15 . Telmomarques - 11,804 - 6,433,817,007 - 39.0 %

16 . Conesz - 12,058 - 22,582,511,461 - 37.7 %

17 . Kngkyle - 12,073 - 8,657,924,249 - 37.6 %

18 . Almostlost - 12,379 - 1,947,835,294 - 36.0 %

19 . Paulrat3 - 12,565 - 11,582,135,287 - 35.0 %

20 . Cynder76 - 12,756 - 19,797,065,862 - 34.0 %

21 . Hehasnoidea - 13,548 - 9,500,025,238 - 29.9 %

22 . Carcass - 13,844 - 22,457,223,069 - 28.4 %

23 . Clamp15 - 13,876 - 19,139,789,621 - 28.3 %

24 . Paperbag - 14,136 - 2,907,345,105 - 26.9 %

 

 

Da broman1 passed Elias.

Myrspixels passed Kingduffy.

 

You can see the minutely updated version of this post here: https://docs.google....dXlwVlhFa1ZoQ3c

I can add somebody to the list if requested. That player must be going to 200m and need less hours than Paperbag.

[Thorgmir]

Gemeos, for sake of reference, can you also include in your time calc posts a theoretical player with all skills just barely 99? It would help put things into perspective by allowing us to approximate what percent of the way each of these players is to all 200M.

[Gemeos2]

Gemeos, for sake of reference, can you also include in your time calc posts a theoretical player with all skills just barely 99? It would help put things into perspective by allowing us to approximate what percent of the way each of these players is to all 200M.

 

A player with 13m base would need:

Time 18,079

Cost 24,958,248,684

 

 

A player with 13m base and 120 Dungeoneering would need:

Time 17,811

Cost 24,958,248,684

 

 

A player with 0 XP would need:

Time 19,340

Cost 26,698,168,313

 

 

Added Conesz to the list due to request.

Added the % completed to the list due to request.

 

Going to edit my previous post as soon as my spreadsheet fully loads.

[tintin113]

Is that 0xp calc taking into account the lower xp rates? Because I think it would take a lot longer than that to get from 0-max!

[Jebrim]

It'd take a little longer, but it isn't really a significant amount of extra time (relative to all 200m's). By level 80 most skills are near the used Xp rate and no skill really takes that long to get to 80.

[Gemeos2]

Errr.... Do you guys prefer with or without underline?

[Coconut Bodywash]

Errr.... Do you guys prefer with or without underline?

Without!

[Gemeos2]

It'd take a little longer, but it isn't really a significant amount of extra time (relative to all 200m's). By level 80 most skills are near the used Xp rate and no skill really takes that long to get to 80.

 

This ^

It would only work pretty bad if you asked me time calc for people that just want max total level.

[Thorgmir]

Thanks, Gemeos, that's very helpful.

[SythenRs]

Does the time calc allow for money making time too? If so whats the standard rate for a max char to make money?