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Makilio

200M in all Skills

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You sound very cocky here

 

I'm sorry if it came across that way. Feel free to tell me if there is another way to measure it - I was simply saying what I could see as a viable option for determining the 'best' player. My reasoning is that while one's personality may be great, the nicest person every could play RuneScape and if they were inefficient, they simply would not be the best RuneScape player. What other ways to measure are there, save efficiency or total xp?

 

Well I judge by the amount of effort required for all of their stats, not just by Xp. I valuate both the Xp rate they took for various skills, their skill in getting a high rate in said method, and how afk said method was. How much they could nolife is also another plus. Another important factor is how much time overall was required for their total stats. Someone with 200m Rc from ZMI and 200m Agility from Barb and 200m Mining from LRC superheating (200m Mage and 200m Smith) would be better than pretty much every player under 2b Overall Xp, in my opinion, and even better than some of those over it.

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Suomi didn't have to spend any(much) time to make the gp. Anyone else would still be making the gp now.

 

Seriously.. the GP involved is probably the smallest part. He would've done it without donations if no one had chosen to fund him. But people want to help. The shear amount of time and dedication involved not to mention his skill with maintaining high levels of efficiency for hours on end is the reason that he's come so far.

I'm not saying anything about that. It's the fact the statement 'great'. A 'great' scaper wouldn't need donations. That's all I'm saying.

 

That's a rather interesting statement to make, considering how the word "great" can mean so many different things. A Great "scaper" could mean most efficient, nicest, most skilled, richest, fastest, first to X goal, etc etc etc. Don't make your claims of what is/isn't great and then refuse to define and defend what you mean by "great". That's just stupid.

 

A "great" scaper is one who achieves 200m in all skills before anyone else, being the only person in the world to have done so (be definition).

 

See what I did there? Now prove me wrong, or counter define. Defending a term you refuse to define is what we call a "moving target". Since you haven't yet told us what you mean by "great", at any time, to save your argument, you can counter my argument by saying "that's not what I meant I meant X instead." It doesn't work like that. At this point you have to both defeat my definition and establish your own, or else your entire statement loses absolutely all validity. Logic. Use it.

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[hide=Drops]Araxxor Eye x1 Leg pieces x2
GWD: 5000 Addy bar Steam B Staff x3 Z Spear x6 Sara. Hilt x2 Bandos Hilt x2 (LS, Solo)SS x6 (1 LS)
Tormented Demons: Shard x6 Slice x5 Claws x9 Limbs x3
DKS: Archer x21 Warrior x31 Berserker x30 Axe x51[/hide]

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Playing within the spirit of the game might also constitute how good a scaper is.

I've already explained what constitutes the best player

You sound very cocky here

 

That's not an argument. It's what I call the "shut up now" reply. Like "you mad bro" when you say something in a video game. There is no good way to answer it, because the other person will just reply "lol mad" again. You refuse to argue the issue and just try and mock the other person.

 

"'Logic!' said the Professor half to himself. 'Why don't they teach logic at these schools?"


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[hide=Drops]Araxxor Eye x1 Leg pieces x2
GWD: 5000 Addy bar Steam B Staff x3 Z Spear x6 Sara. Hilt x2 Bandos Hilt x2 (LS, Solo)SS x6 (1 LS)
Tormented Demons: Shard x6 Slice x5 Claws x9 Limbs x3
DKS: Archer x21 Warrior x31 Berserker x30 Axe x51[/hide]

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You sound very cocky here

 

I'm sorry if it came across that way. Feel free to tell me if there is another way to measure it - I was simply saying what I could see as a viable option for determining the 'best' player. My reasoning is that while one's personality may be great, the nicest person every could play RuneScape and if they were inefficient, they simply would not be the best RuneScape player. What other ways to measure are there, save efficiency or total xp?

 

You can measure the "best" scaper by whatever definition you choose, and thus, this is a pointless argument. I could say that, in my opinion, Castle Wars is the best scaper because he was the first to achieve a trimmed completionist cape. Also, efficiency (at least as I understand it) is only a measure of how effectively you achieve your goals. So, a person who was the nicest ever would be very efficient, if being the nicest player was his/her goal.

 

In relation to this thread though, being about players reaching 200m xp in all skills, you probably would need to define "best" by gameplay hours remaining to 200m in all skills. However, you could put as many restrictions on that as you want to in your definition of "best", from no exploiting glitches (which I believe is a given), to no accepting donations, to doing the whole thing DIY style. Depending on how you restrict it, SUOMI may or may not be the best scaper.

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I don't see the logic in bashing the people who ask for donations to fund their goals.

 

It'd be different if he was FORCING people to donate money somehow, but that's obviously not the case here.

 

The problem here is that people see a guy with almost 5B XP, and they're unimpressed because he was smart about achieving it. Accepting donations doesn't mean his achievements are meaningless; it means he's smarter than the people too stubborn to maximize their time and efficiency.


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if carlos slim (richest human on the world) would spend 95% of his money (69 billion dollars -5%) on squeel of fortune spins. WOULD HE HAVE 200M ALL SKILLS?!?!?!?!??! and how rich would he be on rs? (just in general if he ever gunna play it or not)?

 

or he can buy Jagex for 1/100th the cost and wipe everyones stats for the hell of it

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if carlos slim (richest human on the world) would spend 95% of his money (69 billion dollars -5%) on squeel of fortune spins. WOULD HE HAVE 200M ALL SKILLS?!?!?!?!??! and how rich would he be on rs? (just in general if he ever gunna play it or not)?

 

or he can buy Jagex for 1/100th the cost and wipe everyones stats for the hell of it

 

Gamed


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The problem is that most skills involve some buyable aspect these days.

 

You've got the obvious: Herblore, Prayer, Crafting, Cooking, Fletching, Construction, Summoning, Farming that are typically viewed as 'buyables'.

 

Then you've also got the cost of Slayer, in cannonballs, scrolls, chaotic repairs, prayer pots. That comes to well over 1b over the course of 200m. (Assuming you make ovls for herb and that cost is counted in herb not slay)

 

Suomi's C2 method of woodcutting also involved him paying 5m/hr was it? That makes WC what, 20 gp/xp? Even if people were willing to do it out of the goodness of their heart, your average player couldn't have people clearing dgs and finding skill plots. If people did it for free, a lot of it comes down to Suomi being #1, which is a result of the donations. I'm not sure what the cost of superheat mining is, but over the course of 200m xp you're going to be spending around 500m on nats.

 

Then there's fishing and agility, Suomi did barb fishing and agility at barb. But fishing is faster to do with the C2 clearing method too, so the actual fastest way of training turns fishing into a buyable too. I have no idea if Suomi used a horn or not, but paying front page BA players to fill your horn takes agility from 65k/hr or w/e it is now to 80k+ on average. (That includes time spent filling the horn.) So when it comes down to it, the most efficient way of training to 200m makes almost every skill expensive to train. Hell, paying for 4s1l dungeoneering is the fastest, if not most fun, way of doing dg.

 

Only Thieving, Hunter, Dungeoneering, (if you don't leech) and Runecrafting don't have significant costs.

 

So if you discount buyables, Suomi would barely be touching 1b total xp right now. Making the gp for 200m all without buying a dice rank or getting lucky in the DA is almost as large a component as training the skills themselves. I remember reading in Zarfot's merchanting guide that at the height of his flipping, he averaged 50m/day. That's when he had the huge amounts of capital needed to invest effectively.

 

Discarding the buyable aspect is basically impossible.

 

Okay, that's just stupid lmfao. He did not use any money to increase his Fishing, Agility, or Mining gains except for bait for Fishing and pouches for Fish/Mine, which is all negligible and made up from banking anyways. He did not do BA.

 

Something I don't think you guys are understanding is that for the past few years, Suomi has had the 2nd most hours/year put into RS out of every player in the game. If you've stalked Runetracker enough, this should be obvious. On top of that, though, he is also one of the biggest players in refusing to waste time/Xp on RS, meaning no standing around or partying or even ranking up people in your friends chat. He's always been super picky about all that. He has by far surpassed every player in RS and imo is the first person to hold rank 1 that I truly believed deserves it. I've long criticized many of the buyable noobs who held #1 that simply got cheap Xp without having put in as much work as some lower ranks (like Suomi at the time).

 

I know he didn't use money for those skills, but it was inefficient for him not to do so. Efficiently training those skills turns them into buyables, which was the point of my post. (That you cannot simply disregard the buyable aspect.)


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You guys are really annoying me. IT'S ABOUT THE AMOUNT OF WORK/EFFORT A PLAYER HAS PUT IN THAT DETERMINES THEIR VALUE. It has nothing to do with being the first to all 200m's or the person with the most Xp or any of that. RS is about grind and if an achievement of Xp is gotten that required both more time and more attention than another same or less amount Xp is achieved by someone else that required less effort/time, then the former is worth more. You cannot judge a player just by how much Xp they have or even if they're just using the efficient methods. You have to look deeper.

 

If someone else did 5b Xp without donations using mostly the same methods as Suomi, then yes, Suomi's donations would play a devaluing role when compared relative to this other player. But as things are now, there is nobody that is quite competitive to Suomi. Suomi has done so much non-afk training with so much focus with so much nolifing at such a consistent pace and in such an immense amount that there's really just nobody out there to compare him to. Most other top players look like a joke in comparison.

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This makes me wonder if people are going to eventually start being intentionally inefficient in an attempt to 1-up each other to show off how much grinding they can tolerate.

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I would agree with muggi that accepting donations is just a smart move from SUOMI, allowing him to be more efficient. Okay, it's less impressive than merching or whatever for your money, but it's certainly more efficient and reliable.

 

Not to mention the time and dedication that he put into the game. I myself am pretty impressed (not that I'd want to do it myself though) by how he can continuously train any skill at maximum xp rate.

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This makes me wonder if people are going to eventually start being intentionally inefficient in an attempt to 1-up each other to show off how much grinding they can tolerate.

 

Some people actually do that for certain 200m's. Most people won't though, or even have to, because they could just be efficient and get more Xp in the process, for the same level of work. My point was to look at the underlying effort invested, not just some Xp number.


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Agilitizing my way to 1,000,000,000xp!
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Suomi has 7k hours lead to make 20-30b he spent on his buyables

 

thats 4m gp/h so even if he didn't take donations he would have enough time to make the money

 

he is the greatest


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Mamiću odlazi!

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Here's a test for you all.

 

Which is more impressive?

- 170m RC Xp at ZMI

- 200m RC Xp at Runespan (100% afk or wizard hunting, doesn't matter)

 

What about if you added in someone who did Runespan while they were on and botted while they were off (school, sleep, etc.)? Say 50m RC Xp legit and 150m botted. This is even more efficient than the prior two, since less work and time is invested.

 

If you were to rank these based on efficiency, it'd be something like this:

Runespan botter

Runespan legit

ZMI legit

 

If you were to rank them based on total RC Xp, it'd be the following:

Runespan legit - (tied) - Runespan botter

ZMI legit

 

If you were to rank them based on the amount of effort required, though, you'd get very different results:

ZMI legit

Runespan legit

Runespan botter

 

Which of these most closely represents your original answer on which is more impressive?

 

 

RuneScape skilling is about obtaining achievements. You're going to feel more pride in an achievement that was harder to obtain than one that was easy and required little work. You're going to get more respect for the harder achievement as well. It's about the challenge.

 

When I am looking at applications for my clan and listening to interviews, I'm looking for things where people want to put in a lot of effort. If someone applies with just 50m Wcing Xp gained from ivy, I'm not going to accept them. Achievements require work and I need to be at least moderately impressed before I'd let someone in.


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Agilitizing my way to 1,000,000,000xp!
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That depends-- did they do ZMI before or after Runespan was released? Because if they did ZMI after Runespan was released, just to make it harder for themselves, that's not impressive-- that's stupid.

 

It also depends on what the person's goals are. I would like to hope that everyone's primary objective in RS is to have fun, or else I'd be interested in hearing their rationalization for wasting literally thousands of hours of their lives doing something they don't enjoy. In other words, if they hate Runespan but have fun doing ZMI, then more power to them. Fun aside, if their goal is to get 200M XP, I don't know who in their right mind would choose ZMI over Runespan.

 

Botting's irrelevant since it's against the rules. Not to mention the fact that if you get caught, it'd be less efficient since there would be action taken against your account.

 

The problem with your subjective "test" is: you seem to value a person's masochistic capacity over everything else.

 

So my question to you is: if two people both get 200M in a skill via the exact same method, but one person enjoys every hour of it, while the other hates every hour, which person impresses you more? Or are they both the same to you?


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That depends-- did they do ZMI before or after Runespan was released? Because if they did ZMI after Runespan was released, just to make it harder for themselves, that's not impressive-- that's stupid.

 

It also depends on what the person's goals are. I would like to hope that everyone's primary objective in RS is to have fun, or else I'd be interested in hearing their rationalization for wasting literally thousands of hours of their lives doing something they don't enjoy. In other words, if they hate Runespan but have fun doing ZMI, then more power to them. Fun aside, if their goal is to get 200M XP, I don't know who in their right mind would choose ZMI over Runespan.

 

Botting's irrelevant since it's against the rules. Not to mention the fact that if you get caught, it'd be less efficient since there would be action taken against your account.

 

The problem with your subjective "test" is: you seem to value a person's masochistic capacity over everything else.

 

So my question to you is: if two people both get 200M in a skill via the exact same method, but one person enjoys every hour of it, while the other hates every hour, which person impresses you more? Or are they both the same to you?

 

If I had money, which I really don't, I'd pay good money to sponsor someone to do 200m RC at ZMI today.

 

To answer your question, they're the same or possibly even the person who hated it might marginally be more impressive (they were able to have the self-discipline to achieve something that was particularly tough for them). You focus too much on the fun/not fun aspect imo. Top skillers care about their achievements, but many also choose to take the lazy way out and have fun doing non-RS things while they get Xp on RS. Overcoming big challenges is what is impressive, not how much fun someone is able to have doing something. Having fun might be a good ideal, but it's not equivalent with being more impressive.

 

Your botting comment worries me. I get the impression that you would bot if it wasn't against the rules. If so, I think you really miss the point of skilling.


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Agilitizing my way to 1,000,000,000xp!
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I would bot without hesitation under the following two conditions:

-botting wasn't against the rules

-the activity I was botting made me unhappy

 

I'd rather work smarter than work harder. I don't care about impressing people, and I value my self-respect over the respect of others. If you're doing something you don't enjoy just to impress others, you're really just rationalizing your own unhappiness.


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Players don't necessarily have to be super inefficient to play this game or have impressive stats. If you're efficient and are overcoming real challenges at the same time, then you're going also going to eventually get a lot of Xp as well (e.g. Suomi). Having a lot of Xp alone does not qualify or disqualify you as a good player. Having more than another does not necessarily make you better or worse. There are underlying things to look at. Drw is a far better player than Blocks for example.


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Agilitizing my way to 1,000,000,000xp!
Follow my progress on my Youtube channel: http://www.youtube.com/The1Jebrim

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That's why it's important for people to specifically define their opinion of what a good player is, before they try to argue it... like Stonewall said earlier.


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I play RS to have fun. I'm pretty sure that's the same reason why everybody (including you) started playing RS in the first place.

 

I train my skills so I can unlock more fun things to do or make my favorite activities more entertaining (for example, getting 80 hunter for stealing creation).

 

I don't have any pride in my RS achievements-- not these days, at least. This is simply because RS is not a big deal to me and I don't take it seriously. There's a reason why I don't wear skillcapes or take screenshots of my "achievements": because those things are unimportant to me. Having fun is what matters. If I'm not having fun on RS, I'll log off and go work on some real-life goals that I enjoy-- that's what's important to me.


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Training past 99 must seem inconceivable to you then.

I guess if you view XP as merely a means to an end, then there's no real point training past level 99.


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In real life MMO you don't get 99 smithing by making endless bronze daggers.

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