Handcannon and other failed range updates

[howbadisbad]

Are you even able to come up with any real arguments at all? You might also want to read what you just wrote, because your reply contains more than the occaisional typo, code faillure, and you actually contradict yourself within two sentences. =D> It would be nice if you could point them out because I don't see them Maybe you'd like to read the post before replying.

 

 

 

Mhm.. Here's your 2:

 

 

 

"crossbows fail" Where did this come from? I see it not. Only you making up things.

 

"Good things: rune c'bow"

 

 

 

Try karils again, maybe form a third opinion there... #-o

 

 

 

[/common sense]

 

 

 

Comments in quote.

 

 

[hide=Range Ammy]Highests range attack in the game by 5 so it should be awesome right?

 

too bad the only use for it is safespotting, and its not even worth it for that since its price is so unstable. WTF? when did i say things should be overpowered?? See underlined. Suggesting it's weakness makes it fail. Taking away the weakness would make it overpowered. I also see that you said you now suddenly don't think of it as a fail? The little reminder on basic economics still stands.The fury has no weaknesses, does that make it overpowered?Fury pretty good attack/defence stats, but lacks the usefulness of a glory. Glory though inferior in stats has teleports, like many rings and teleports. Compare the prices and most would choose for a glory anyway.[/hide]

 

[hide=Javalins]Not much to say here other than they suck! :D No they suck. Ah yes, wonderful argument right there!That is the argument froob. They are just more terrible than everything else (in short, they suck)Your agurment here:

 

 

 

They suck - That's not an argument! Calling me noob again because you lack manners, decency and objectivity?

 

My argument: Read back in the first post. It wasn't that you're poor (proving another of your "arguments" false.[/hide]

 

[hide=Darts]Knives with less power and more expensive :wall:Oh my god! They're expensive? Maybe that has something to do with people wanting it and a small (in comparison) offer in said items? Again, basic economics... And there's a fletching skill too you know. #-o

 

 

 

They fail because of the price? That argument is a fail, the item is not. :shame: No the item is a fail. Another great, perfectly reasonable argument! You fail at providing those so badly that it's a wonder you even bother trying to contradict me without any facts. And yours is so great "LOLZ UR JUST 2 P00r!Your arguments:

 

The item is a fail.

 

The item is expensive.

 

 

 

My arguments:

 

The item doesn't fail as they're much like knives, fast and hit fair. Provide proof for the item's failing?

 

The item isn't that expensive.THEY ARE OUTPREFORMED IN EVERY WAY BY KNIVES, THAT MAKES THEM FAIL[/color][/hide]

 

[hide=Longbows]lol fail. #-o They have greater range and can shoot over larger obstacles. They are slower yes, but still have their purpose. Nuff said. When you next use a longbow to train, or anything for that matter, tell me So you have to use them for training if they're not to fail? How perfectly shallow to think that. People use them for long range Pking, and switch to other weapons for close range.You don't use a longbow for pking, just alching maybe ;)You never Pked before the introduction of the newest ranged weapons, have you? And yes, people use them.They don't[/hide]

 

[hide=Thrownaxes]Rune axe is useful for waterbirth and that is all?Again, what's wrong with the large range of choice in weapons? You can use them for more than just waterbirth, so I don't see the problem. They suck is the problem. Another one of your most impressive arguments I see. My earlier point still stands. Prove it wrong and you might not be a waste of space. :shame: Your argument is i'm poor....I see how that is your argument to everything.

 

Your arguments:

 

Only serves 1 purpose.

 

They suck. (not an argument, but a statement which requires proof that you don't provide)

 

 

 

My arguments:

 

They can be used for more than that.

 

"They suck" isn't an argument.

 

You're not forced to use them, there's nothing wrong with having the choice to use them.They suck is an argument. If the item is Slow, inaccurate, weak, and outpreformed in every way then it sucks. Get it now?[/hide]

 

[hide=Crystal bow]Is beat in every possible way by the rune crossbow with an unholy book. (not to mention the degrading)First of all, the Crystal bow was there long before the rune c'bow was even introduced! It still has its purpose and I think you just hate it because you're poor. :shame: it has no purpose if it is outpreformed in everyway by cheaper alternatives? Lies underlined.How is it a lie, Rune crossbow is cheaper, more powerful, and more accurate. How it is a lie?

 

1. "it has no purpose" - REALLY? I believe several other people have already proven that wrong.

 

2. "it is outperformed in everyway (1 word?) by cheaper alternatives" - REALLY? You named one. Start the list buddy![/hide]Accuracy. DPS. Cheapness

 

[hide=Karils]Before the December 2007 Wilderness updates, many Karil's rangers would go to the Wilderness Agility Course and lower the Agility of the target, making them unable to escape. Some rangers in PvP worlds still use this tactic. Many rangers have asked for the set effect to be changed. Nevertheless, it is considered to have little to no use in most other situations.Oh no! Armour with purpose, how extremely outrageous! :wall: duh? Barrows effects are suposed to have a purpose, whereas Karil's has none. You said:"Only useful for magic defence" - now you say: "It has no purpose"

 

 

 

Contradicting yourself much lately?I said the set effect nub

 

 

 

Crossbow: Decent at best, but expensive and not good unless you want to whittle down a players health in pvp Again, you hate it because you're poor? Crossbows aren't expensive at all.When did i ever mention it being to expensive? Learn to read.Apparently you're a hypocrite too. I underlined where you said it was expensive. Learn to read your own words! No comments here eh?Karils crossbow isn't a crossbow? it's like it's own class

 

 

 

Armour: Only use for karils is magic defence, anything else is total and complete waste of cash I get it! You're too freaking poor. :wall: You have no place in this thread. Really? Why's that? Please do provide me with actual facts instead of made-up lies. :shame: Because your entire argument is saying i'm too poor and i don't have to use the weapon if it sucksStill haven't learned reading eh?[/hide]

 

[hide=Hand Cannon]Made me Rofl

 

 

 

also it has a chance to break when you fire it, and the shots are 2k each Again you're ranting about your apparent poverty! Did it ever occur to you that people may just think it an awesome weapon? People that aren't poor noobs like you apparently are? So it's jealousy that drives you then... You're not forced to use any of the weapons you don't like..I don't.Still no real argument why the cannon would fail than. Well done! =D> The point is not "dont use it if it sucks" it's "most range weapons suck so fix it." The point is most range weapons suck, you say, yet you cannot elaborate on WHY the cannon sucks other than your not liking it, apparently. Still waiting for a real argument here.[/hide]

 

I did, Its called speed, DPS, accuracy, and not blowing up in your face.

 

Good things:

 

 

 

Rune crossbow- always the best way to train, Good hits and accurate. Oh, so next to the "I'm-too-poor-for-this-so-it-sucks" ranged is good? That's just.. bleep. -.- Stop trolling. You mean stop pointing out where your logic fails? Might I remind you you said crossbows fail? How most interesting how you don't even seem to agree with yourself.Never said that, I said dragon bolts (e) are a fail in pvp due to antifire pots. Never said crossbows fail? Scroll up buddy!

 

 

 

That'd be in the karils hidden bit. I'll help make that clearer for you. =D> Karils crossbow is not in the same class as a crossbow, and i can elaborate if you want me too. but i'll leave it at the face it has no characteristics of a crossbow.

 

 

 

Chins- Best way to train :DI'm missing your comment about how im too poor. You try and make it seem that's the reason I think the items don't fail. That's incorrect. It is the reason I think that you believe the items fail. Therefore it doesn't matter at all how poor you are with regard to whether or not the items fail. It merely proves you're not objective and thus your arguments "this sucks" is invalid.If the item is more expensive but outpreformed it is a valid argument.

 

 

 

Range could be so much more, but Jagex fails to produce an even mediocre update for range. Well why don't you suggest something then, if you're so unhappy without providing any real arguments. :shame: i Would but you might come in and start yelling about how everyone is too poor. Based on your lack of arguments your poverty appears the only reason you believe the items are a fail. I look at things objectively, not at prices in that matter. Shame on you for assuming I would.Hmmm i'm just too poor is used everywhere.... :-# Your being too poor was your argument here, not mine. Besides, that does not give you an excuse not to come with actual suggestiong rather than claiming everything sucks.Lol I have never called you poor, so why are you saying its my argument? As for suggesting, buff range damage and accuracy? ill add more later

 

 

 

No comments about shortbows yet..

 

 

 

Still, my conclusion is that you're just ranting about being too poor. noob gtfo. Ah yes, when you can't win the argument due to lack of intellect you'll be calling the other a noob. How very mature indeed. Interesting too, that you left out the shortbow still.because your entire argument is calling everyone poor. Is it now? You should take your own advice and "Learn to read!"lol fail. I have never called you poor yet you keep saying that it is my argument.

 

 

 

Such a great Argument! Sure beats yours. It's actually based on fact.Because you know how much money I have? no. Based on your calling everything and anything too expensive. Your arguments are based on no factual analysis whatsoever.Thanks for calling me poor for the umpteenth time. the factual analysis wouldn't be needed if you knew what you were taking about when you said "javelins hit pretty good" -> I lol'd irl

 

 

 

The point is "WHY DO MOST RANGE WEAPONS SUCK?" And I'm merely arguing with that because I disagree, and you cannot provide any real arguments WHY these items "suck" :shame: Weapon damage, cost, speed, and accuracy might play a part as mentioned in some above arguments Mhm? I don't see a clear presentation of weapon damage, cost, speed and accuracy per weapon to compare them, do you?Maybe if you used range more often you wouldn't need numbers.

 

 

 

 

 

I guess range ammy has its uses so i'll take that off the list. but everything else needs buffs or some kind of improvement.

[Dirkmetal]

Are you even able to come up with any real arguments at all? You might also want to read what you just wrote, because your reply contains more than the occaisional typo, code faillure, and you actually contradict yourself within two sentences. =D> It would be nice if you could point them out because I don't see them Maybe you'd like to read the post before replying.

 

 

 

Mhm.. Here's your 2:

 

 

 

"crossbows fail" Where did this come from? I see it not. Only you making up things.

 

"Good things: rune c'bow"

 

 

 

Try karils again, maybe form a third opinion there... #-o

 

 

 

[/common sense]

 

 

 

Comments in quote.

 

 

[hide=Range Ammy]Highests range attack in the game by 5 so it should be awesome right?

 

too bad the only use for it is safespotting, and its not even worth it for that since its price is so unstable. WTF? when did i say things should be overpowered?? See underlined. Suggesting it's weakness makes it fail. Taking away the weakness would make it overpowered. I also see that you said you now suddenly don't think of it as a fail? The little reminder on basic economics still stands.The fury has no weaknesses, does that make it overpowered?Fury pretty good attack/defence stats, but lacks the usefulness of a glory. Glory though inferior in stats has teleports, like many rings and teleports. Compare the prices and most would choose for a glory anyway.[/hide]

 

[hide=Javalins]Not much to say here other than they suck! :D No they suck. Ah yes, wonderful argument right there!That is the argument froob. They are just more terrible than everything else (in short, they suck)Your agurment here:

 

 

 

They suck - That's not an argument! Calling me noob again because you lack manners, decency and objectivity?

 

My argument: Read back in the first post. It wasn't that you're poor (proving another of your "arguments" false.[/hide]

 

[hide=Darts]Knives with less power and more expensive :wall:Oh my god! They're expensive? Maybe that has something to do with people wanting it and a small (in comparison) offer in said items? Again, basic economics... And there's a fletching skill too you know. #-o

 

 

 

They fail because of the price? That argument is a fail, the item is not. :shame: No the item is a fail. Another great, perfectly reasonable argument! You fail at providing those so badly that it's a wonder you even bother trying to contradict me without any facts. And yours is so great "LOLZ UR JUST 2 P00r!Your arguments:

 

The item is a fail.

 

The item is expensive.

 

 

 

My arguments:

 

The item doesn't fail as they're much like knives, fast and hit fair. Provide proof for the item's failing?

 

The item isn't that expensive.THEY ARE OUTPREFORMED IN EVERY WAY BY KNIVES, THAT MAKES THEM FAIL[/color][/hide]

 

[hide=Longbows]lol fail. #-o They have greater range and can shoot over larger obstacles. They are slower yes, but still have their purpose. Nuff said. When you next use a longbow to train, or anything for that matter, tell me So you have to use them for training if they're not to fail? How perfectly shallow to think that. People use them for long range Pking, and switch to other weapons for close range.You don't use a longbow for pking, just alching maybe ;)You never Pked before the introduction of the newest ranged weapons, have you? And yes, people use them.They don't[/hide]

 

[hide=Thrownaxes]Rune axe is useful for waterbirth and that is all?Again, what's wrong with the large range of choice in weapons? You can use them for more than just waterbirth, so I don't see the problem. They suck is the problem. Another one of your most impressive arguments I see. My earlier point still stands. Prove it wrong and you might not be a waste of space. :shame: Your argument is i'm poor....I see how that is your argument to everything.

 

Your arguments:

 

Only serves 1 purpose.

 

They suck. (not an argument, but a statement which requires proof that you don't provide)

 

 

 

My arguments:

 

They can be used for more than that.

 

"They suck" isn't an argument.

 

You're not forced to use them, there's nothing wrong with having the choice to use them.They suck is an argument. If the item is Slow, inaccurate, weak, and outpreformed in every way then it sucks. Get it now?[/hide]

 

[hide=Crystal bow]Is beat in every possible way by the rune crossbow with an unholy book. (not to mention the degrading)First of all, the Crystal bow was there long before the rune c'bow was even introduced! It still has its purpose and I think you just hate it because you're poor. :shame: it has no purpose if it is outpreformed in everyway by cheaper alternatives? Lies underlined.How is it a lie, Rune crossbow is cheaper, more powerful, and more accurate. How it is a lie?

 

1. "it has no purpose" - REALLY? I believe several other people have already proven that wrong.

 

2. "it is outperformed in everyway (1 word?) by cheaper alternatives" - REALLY? You named one. Start the list buddy![/hide]Accuracy. DPS. Cheapness

 

[hide=Karils]Before the December 2007 Wilderness updates, many Karil's rangers would go to the Wilderness Agility Course and lower the Agility of the target, making them unable to escape. Some rangers in PvP worlds still use this tactic. Many rangers have asked for the set effect to be changed. Nevertheless, it is considered to have little to no use in most other situations.Oh no! Armour with purpose, how extremely outrageous! :wall: duh? Barrows effects are suposed to have a purpose, whereas Karil's has none. You said:"Only useful for magic defence" - now you say: "It has no purpose"

 

 

 

Contradicting yourself much lately?I said the set effect nub

 

 

 

Crossbow: Decent at best, but expensive and not good unless you want to whittle down a players health in pvp Again, you hate it because you're poor? Crossbows aren't expensive at all.When did i ever mention it being to expensive? Learn to read.Apparently you're a hypocrite too. I underlined where you said it was expensive. Learn to read your own words! No comments here eh?Karils crossbow isn't a crossbow? it's like it's own class

 

 

 

Armour: Only use for karils is magic defence, anything else is total and complete waste of cash I get it! You're too freaking poor. :wall: You have no place in this thread. Really? Why's that? Please do provide me with actual facts instead of made-up lies. :shame: Because your entire argument is saying i'm too poor and i don't have to use the weapon if it sucksStill haven't learned reading eh?[/hide]

 

[hide=Hand Cannon]Made me Rofl

 

 

 

also it has a chance to break when you fire it, and the shots are 2k each Again you're ranting about your apparent poverty! Did it ever occur to you that people may just think it an awesome weapon? People that aren't poor noobs like you apparently are? So it's jealousy that drives you then... You're not forced to use any of the weapons you don't like..I don't.Still no real argument why the cannon would fail than. Well done! =D> The point is not "dont use it if it sucks" it's "most range weapons suck so fix it." The point is most range weapons suck, you say, yet you cannot elaborate on WHY the cannon sucks other than your not liking it, apparently. Still waiting for a real argument here.[/hide]

 

I did, Its called speed, DPS, accuracy, and not blowing up in your face.

 

Good things:

 

 

 

Rune crossbow- always the best way to train, Good hits and accurate. Oh, so next to the "I'm-too-poor-for-this-so-it-sucks" ranged is good? That's just.. bleep. -.- Stop trolling. You mean stop pointing out where your logic fails? Might I remind you you said crossbows fail? How most interesting how you don't even seem to agree with yourself.Never said that, I said dragon bolts (e) are a fail in pvp due to antifire pots. Never said crossbows fail? Scroll up buddy!

 

 

 

That'd be in the karils hidden bit. I'll help make that clearer for you. =D> Karils crossbow is not in the same class as a crossbow, and i can elaborate if you want me too. but i'll leave it at the face it has no characteristics of a crossbow.

 

 

 

Chins- Best way to train :DI'm missing your comment about how im too poor. You try and make it seem that's the reason I think the items don't fail. That's incorrect. It is the reason I think that you believe the items fail. Therefore it doesn't matter at all how poor you are with regard to whether or not the items fail. It merely proves you're not objective and thus your arguments "this sucks" is invalid.If the item is more expensive but outpreformed it is a valid argument.

 

 

 

Range could be so much more, but Jagex fails to produce an even mediocre update for range. Well why don't you suggest something then, if you're so unhappy without providing any real arguments. :shame: i Would but you might come in and start yelling about how everyone is too poor. Based on your lack of arguments your poverty appears the only reason you believe the items are a fail. I look at things objectively, not at prices in that matter. Shame on you for assuming I would.Hmmm i'm just too poor is used everywhere.... :-# Your being too poor was your argument here, not mine. Besides, that does not give you an excuse not to come with actual suggestiong rather than claiming everything sucks.Lol I have never called you poor, so why are you saying its my argument? As for suggesting, buff range damage and accuracy? ill add more later

 

 

 

No comments about shortbows yet..

 

 

 

Still, my conclusion is that you're just ranting about being too poor. noob gtfo. Ah yes, when you can't win the argument due to lack of intellect you'll be calling the other a noob. How very mature indeed. Interesting too, that you left out the shortbow still.because your entire argument is calling everyone poor. Is it now? You should take your own advice and "Learn to read!"lol fail. I have never called you poor yet you keep saying that it is my argument.

 

 

 

Such a great Argument! Sure beats yours. It's actually based on fact.Because you know how much money I have? no. Based on your calling everything and anything too expensive. Your arguments are based on no factual analysis whatsoever.Thanks for calling me poor for the umpteenth time. the factual analysis wouldn't be needed if you knew what you were taking about when you said "javelins hit pretty good" -> I lol'd irl

 

 

 

The point is "WHY DO MOST RANGE WEAPONS SUCK?" And I'm merely arguing with that because I disagree, and you cannot provide any real arguments WHY these items "suck" :shame: Weapon damage, cost, speed, and accuracy might play a part as mentioned in some above arguments Mhm? I don't see a clear presentation of weapon damage, cost, speed and accuracy per weapon to compare them, do you?Maybe if you used range more often you wouldn't need numbers.

 

 

 

 

 

I guess range ammy has its uses so i'll take that off the list. but everything else needs buffs or some kind of improvement.

 

 

 

This argument has become a real mishmash of colored text, and is becoming harder and harder to understand. I don't know who is replying to who any more! Clean it up!

[fenrir321]

Dear Guthix, the colored walls of text are both annoying and hard to read -.- .

 

 

 

Just to clear up how price factors into pvp and pve:

 

 

 

Pve- higher cost lowers the threshold of profit. In other words, the most cost efficient setup will be used the most, obviously. I am stating this obvious fact because crossbows are mainly used for pve with broad bolts. If you look at the best pvpers, they will be using the triple combo: Ice barrage + shadow barrage + karil's crossbow/obby rings. Not a rune crossbow. Which brings me to my next point:

 

 

 

Pvp- cost is negligible. Yes, I said it. The cost reflects the power of the weapon, not determines the power of the weapon. In fact, cost only dictates the frequency of the weapon (generally). The cost-frequency relation is based on the average 'scaper's amount of cash. The standard melee weapon is the whip. It's relatively cheap and very quick. Next up is the saradomin sword. More expensive, a little bit rarer, and slightly more powerful with the ko potential and +3 str with aggressive. Rarer still is the BGS. It's about 3x more expensive, and much rarer than the whip or ss but more powerful. Rarer still is the ASG with its tremendous cost. And at the top is the elysian shield. Most powerful shield in the game and arguably the rarest seen.

 

What does this have to do with the rant?

 

The cannon will be used in pvp as a possible ko combo with ice barrage. It won't be used often because of the price and risk of explosion, but the people who will use it will have a great advantage.

 

 

 

While the cannon may not be useful in grinding and pve, its burst potential is great and therefore makes it viable for pvp.

 

 

 

edit: you might want to put the range numbers up, btw. With your logic, you're stating that "I know what I'm talking about, I'm not proving it to you with math since anybody who matters should know it already. Therefore, take my word for it" <- even though you're never supposed to do that in an argument.

[Draconic]

if your wearing mystic or other mage armour your not gona hit good with dbow anyways because everyone wears void when dbowing.

 

 

 

I mean if your target is...

 

 

 

Anyways, having a some fail content does not equate to being underpowered. Range is very powerful at the moment. Just search "range pking" on Youtube... There are plenty of things in all three classes that are only good for one thing (Zam Spear, Sara Sword, most dragon weapons, etc.) and things that are simply not used by anyone with a grasp on efficiency.

[Jaffy1]

EDIT: For Dirkmetal:

 

-howbasisbad: white, black, dark green.

 

-Me: Red, green, blue.

 

 

 

 

 

Are you even able to come up with any real arguments at all? You might also want to read what you just wrote, because your reply contains more than the occaisional typo, code faillure, and you actually contradict yourself within two sentences. =D> It would be nice if you could point them out because I don't see them Maybe you'd like to read the post before replying.

 

 

 

Mhm.. Here's your 2:

 

 

 

"crossbows fail" Where did this come from? I see it not. Only you making up things.

 

"Good things: rune c'bow"

 

 

 

Try karils again, maybe form a third opinion there...

 

 

 

[/common sense]

 

 

 

Comments in quote.

 

 

[hide=Range Ammy]Highests range attack in the game by 5 so it should be awesome right?

 

too bad the only use for it is safespotting, and its not even worth it for that since its price is so unstable. WTF? when did i say things should be overpowered?? See underlined. Suggesting it's weakness makes it fail. Taking away the weakness would make it overpowered. I also see that you said you now suddenly don't think of it as a fail? The little reminder on basic economics still stands.The fury has no weaknesses, does that make it overpowered?Fury got pretty good attack/defence stats, but lacks the usefulness of a glory. Glory though inferior in stats has teleports, like many rings and teleports. Compare the prices and most would choose for a glory anyway.][/hide]

 

[hide=Javalins]Not much to say here other than they suck! :D No they suck. Ah yes, wonderful argument right there!That is the argument froob. They are just more terrible than everything else (in short, they suck) Have you never been tought proper argumentation? "They suck" is the statement, not the argument you cabbage. :| Your agurment here:

 

 

 

They suck - That's not an argument! Calling me noob again because you lack manners, decency and objectivity?

 

My argument: Read back in the first post. It wasn't that you're poor (proving another of your "arguments" false.[/hide]

 

[hide=Darts]Knives with less power and more expensive :wall:Oh my god! They're expensive? Maybe that has something to do with people wanting it and a small (in comparison) offer in said items? Again, basic economics... And there's a fletching skill too you know.

 

 

 

They fail because of the price? That argument is a fail, the item is not. :shame: No the item is a fail. Another great, perfectly reasonable argument! You fail at providing those so badly that it's a wonder you even bother trying to contradict me without any facts. And yours is so great "LOLZ UR JUST 2 P00r!Your arguments:

 

The item is a fail.

 

The item is expensive.

 

 

 

My arguments:

 

The item doesn't fail as they're much like knives, fast and hit fair. Provide proof for the item's failing?

 

The item isn't that expensive.THEY ARE OUTPREFORMED IN EVERY WAY BY KNIVES, THAT MAKES THEM FAIL No they're not. Why not compare knives and darts against, let's say.. dragons? You know mighty little of the ranged weapons for someone that got the skill 99.[/hide]

 

[hide=Longbows]lol fail. #-o They have greater range and can shoot over larger obstacles. They are slower yes, but still have their purpose. Nuff said. When you next use a longbow to train, or anything for that matter, tell me So you have to use them for training if they're not to fail? How perfectly shallow to think that. People use them for long range Pking, and switch to other weapons for close range.You don't use a longbow for pking, just alching maybe ;)You never Pked before the introduction of the newest ranged weapons, have you? And yes, people use them.They don't Another one of your wonderful factual arguments I see. People do use them, I know people that have for years in pvp. Go ahead and provide me with any proof for a change.[/hide]

 

[hide=Thrownaxes]Rune axe is useful for waterbirth and that is all?Again, what's wrong with the large range of choice in weapons? You can use them for more than just waterbirth, so I don't see the problem. They suck is the problem. Another one of your most impressive arguments I see. My earlier point still stands. Prove it wrong and you might not be a waste of space. :shame: Your argument is i'm poor....I see how that is your argument to everything. Wrong. Can you read? Your main argument is that things are expensive and you use your thesis as an argument (fail). If everything is expensive to you, you must be feeling this way due lack in wealth, obviously.

 

Your arguments:

 

Only serves 1 purpose.

 

They suck. (not an argument, but a statement which requires proof that you don't provide)

 

 

 

My arguments:

 

They can be used for more than that.

 

"They suck" isn't an argument.

 

You're not forced to use them, there's nothing wrong with having the choice to use them.They suck is an argument. If the item is Slow, inaccurate, weak, and outpreformed in every way then it sucks. Get it now? "They suck is not an argument, it's your thesis. Perhaps you should learn proper English. [/hide]

 

[hide=Crystal bow]Is beat in every possible way by the rune crossbow with an unholy book. (not to mention the degrading)First of all, the Crystal bow was there long before the rune c'bow was even introduced! It still has its purpose and I think you just hate it because you're poor. :shame: it has no purpose if it is outpreformed in everyway by cheaper alternatives? Lies underlined.How is it a lie, Rune crossbow is cheaper, more powerful, and more accurate. How it is a lie?

 

1. "it has no purpose" - REALLY? I believe several other people have already proven that wrong.

 

2. "it is outperformed in everyway (1 word?) by cheaper alternatives" - REALLY? You named one. Start the list buddy![/hide]Accuracy. DPS. Cheapness Did you understand the question? Start the list of cheaper, and better, alternatives then! Random non-factual rambling doesn't qualify.

 

[hide=Karils]Before the December 2007 Wilderness updates, many Karil's rangers would go to the Wilderness Agility Course and lower the Agility of the target, making them unable to escape. Some rangers in PvP worlds still use this tactic. Many rangers have asked for the set effect to be changed. Nevertheless, it is considered to have little to no use in most other situations.Oh no! Armour with purpose, how extremely outrageous! :wall: duh? Barrows effects are suposed to have a purpose, whereas Karil's has none. You said:"Only useful for magic defence" - now you say: "It has no purpose"

 

 

 

Contradicting yourself much lately?I said the set effect nubAgain with the "nub". Nothing better to say, do you? You said "in effect" did you? I'd like to see you prove that.

 

 

 

Crossbow: Decent at best, but expensive and not good unless you want to whittle down a players health in pvp Again, you hate it because you're poor? Crossbows aren't expensive at all.When did i ever mention it being to expensive? Learn to read.Apparently you're a hypocrite too. I underlined where you said it was expensive. Learn to read your own words!

 

 

 

Armour: Only use for karils is magic defence, anything else is total and complete waste of cash I get it! You're too freaking poor. :wall: You have no place in this thread. Really? Why's that? Please do provide me with actual facts instead of made-up lies. :shame: Because your entire argument is saying i'm too poor and i don't have to use the weapon if it sucksStill haven't learned reading eh?[/hide]

 

[hide=Hand Cannon]Made me Rofl

 

 

 

also it has a chance to break when you fire it, and the shots are 2k each Again you're ranting about your apparent poverty! Did it ever occur to you that people may just think it an awesome weapon? People that aren't poor noobs like you apparently are? So it's jealousy that drives you then... You're not forced to use any of the weapons you don't like..I don't.Still no real argument why the cannon would fail than. Well done! =D> The point is not "dont use it if it sucks" it's "most range weapons suck so fix it." The point is most range weapons suck, you say, yet you cannot elaborate on WHY the cannon sucks other than your not liking it, apparently. Still waiting for a real argument here.[/hide]

 

I did, Its called speed, DPS, accuracy, and not blowing up in your face.Your wanting it overpowered doesn't mean it sucks. Look at other people's reply regarding that. Besides, the cannon has some of the highest hits, so obviously it has to be slow and less accurate in order for it not to be overpowered!

 

Good things:

 

 

 

Rune crossbow- always the best way to train, Good hits and accurate. Oh, so next to the "I'm-too-poor-for-this-so-it-sucks" ranged is good? That's just.. bleep. -.- Stop trolling. You mean stop pointing out where your logic fails? Might I remind you you said crossbows fail? How most interesting how you don't even seem to agree with yourself.Never said that, I said dragon bolts (e) are a fail in pvp due to antifire pots. Never said crossbows fail? Scroll up buddy!

 

 

 

That'd be in the karils hidden bit. I'll help make that clearer for you. =D> Karils crossbow is not in the same class as a crossbow, and i can elaborate if you want me too. but i'll leave it at the face it has no characteristics of a crossbow.And as the only good thing is the rune c'bow, of course all other crossbows, including karils suck?

 

 

 

Chins- Best way to train :DI'm missing your comment about how im too poor. You try and make it seem that's the reason I think the items don't fail. That's incorrect. It is the reason I think that you believe the items fail. Therefore it doesn't matter at all how poor you are with regard to whether or not the items fail. It merely proves you're not objective and thus your arguments "this sucks" is invalid.If the item is more expensive but outpreformed it is a valid argument. Trimmed armour must suck in your eyes too, or any given "fancy" weapon or armour, holiday item or rare. Besides, you still did not provide any evidence.

 

 

 

Range could be so much more, but Jagex fails to produce an even mediocre update for range. Well why don't you suggest something then, if you're so unhappy without providing any real arguments. :shame: i Would but you might come in and start yelling about how everyone is too poor. Based on your lack of arguments your poverty appears the only reason you believe the items are a fail. I look at things objectively, not at prices in that matter. Shame on you for assuming I would.Hmmm i'm just too poor is used everywhere.... :-# Your being too poor was your argument here, not mine. Besides, that does not give you an excuse not to come with actual suggestiong rather than claiming everything sucks.Lol I have never called you poor, so why are you saying its my argument? As for suggesting, buff range damage and accuracy? Read your own words my friend, and you might not ramble in ignorance regarding them.

 

 

 

You said, in response to my daring you to come up with suggestions:

 

"i would but you might come in and start yelling about how everyone is too poor"

 

 

 

That is non-sense because:

 

1. You're the only one I've called poor as lack in wealth seems your main argument for why things suck.

 

2. It's a lame-[wagon] excuse for calling everything a fail without coming up with any decent ideas of your own.

 

3. I have no possible reason to be calling you poor without facts to base it on.

 

4. Had you come up with decent suggestions, I would consider them objectively.

 

 

 

No comments about shortbows yet..

 

 

 

Still, my conclusion is that you're just ranting about being too poor. noob gtfo. Ah yes, when you can't win the argument due to lack of intellect you'll be calling the other a noob. How very mature indeed. Interesting too, that you left out the shortbow still.because your entire argument is calling everyone poor. Is it now? You should take your own advice and "Learn to read!"lol fail. I have never called you poor yet you keep saying that it is my argument. You still can't read properly, can you?

 

 

 

Such a great Argument! Sure beats yours. It's actually based on fact.Because you know how much money I have? no. Based on your calling everything and anything too expensive. Your arguments are based on no factual analysis whatsoever.Thanks for calling me poor for the umpteenth time. the factual analysis wouldn't be needed if you knew what you were taking about when you said "javelins hit pretty good" -> I lol'd irl Change the meaning of my words, will you? I said "for a noob weapon"

 

Still issues with reading skills?

 

 

 

The point is "WHY DO MOST RANGE WEAPONS SUCK?" And I'm merely arguing with that because I disagree, and you cannot provide any real arguments WHY these items "suck" :shame: Weapon damage, cost, speed, and accuracy might play a part as mentioned in some above arguments Mhm? I don't see a clear presentation of weapon damage, cost, speed and accuracy per weapon to compare them, do you?Maybe if you used range more often you wouldn't need numbers. Utterly irrelevant.

 

 

 

Your statement is the things suck.

 

Your "argument" is non-factual.

 

You have no data or evidence to support your statement.

 

 

 

I pointed that out, so I must be a noob, obviously, stating the obvious as I am.

 

If you decide on claiming things suck, why not provide us, ignorant noobs, with any evidence or real argument then?

 

 

 

 

 

I guess range ammy has its uses so i'll take that off the list. but everything else needs buffs or some kind of improvement.

[JoeDaStudd]

Crystal bow is still pretty damn good for boss hunting.

 

 

 

I love using it at DK's its longer ranged, takes 1 slot, I don't have to worry about ammo and I don't need to wear a set cape which means more prayer bonus and longer trips.

 

WAITWUTPRAYERBOOKS?

 

 

 

 

 

Recharging works out cheaper then the amount of diamond (e) bolts you'd lose due to breaks and them dropping on the floor (picking them up is lost time and inventory space in comparison).

 

the extra accuracy, damage, and prayer bonus might help

 

With rune c'bow its harder to stand away from the other players without getting into rex or supreme range. This means you can't turn off magic prayer when someone else is taking the hits as often. Hence you using more prayer. Add to this the lack of an extra space for the shield when you switch to melee you lose a prayer or super restore potion.

 

 

 

And like one of the above posters stated its 5 vs 4 on the weapon speed as well.

 

 

 

EDIT just bothered reading more into your first post and a few things made me lol.

 

 

 

Rune crossbow- always the best way to train, Good hits and accurate

 

For training is one of there worse weapons. When your training you want a monster with low defense and high hp with a fast weapon.

 

Rune crossbow is slow for power training when compared to knives or ..... darts. Yes I said darts.

 

At lower levels shortbows are better then cbows for training.

 

 

 

Rune crossbow- always the best way to train, Good hits and accurate

 

 

 

Chins- Best way to train :D

 

 

 

So which is the best way to train rune crossbow or chins? The best denotes its the definitive weapon for training.

 

 

 

The hand cannon can hit double 56 with the special if you set it to rapid (since they almost merge into one animation).

 

 

 

Javalins

 

Not much to say here other than they suck! :D

 

 

 

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but isn't Morgans javelin one of the best PvP items?

[Gin_and_Tonic]

The last thing Runescape needs is another range updaste... Void/d bow hits massively and is basically a one-hit ko on most cases... Rune c'bow with bolts are ridiculously powerful too... The worst thing is, they're also so cheap aswell. No like claws/godswords... For pking this is anyway. As for PvM they are incredibly powerful too.

[Dirkmetal]

Aww, I was hoping that the forum switch over would remove the color puke mess of posts here. :(

[T. Skill]

To be honest.. The Crystal Bow still is to this day one of my favorite Ranged weapons.

[Lt_Surge]

 

Javalins

 

Not much to say here other than they suck! :D

 

 

 

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but isn't Morgans javelin one of the best PvP items?

I'm pretty sure that he is only referring to bronze through rune javelins, or he's never heard of Morrigan's javelins or seen them used. The only use I've ever found for any of those was snagging metal dragons with rune ones.

 

You guys are being awfully picky about the wording of the OP's sentences, though. Even I can understand what he is saying, so I'm sure you all can.

[Cheefoo]

Melee has: Dragon Dagger, Zamorakian Spear, Armadyl Godsword, Bandos Godsword, Abyssal Whip, Dharok's Greataxe, Dragon Scimitar, Dragon Longsword, Dragon Claws, Zamorak Godsword, Dragonfire Shield, Vesta's Longsword, Saradomin Sword, Vesta's Spear, Statius' Warhammer, Granite Maul, Dragon Mace, Granite Mace, Verac's Flail, Saradomin Godsword, and probably about 12 more in the upcoming month, weapons that are viable for pking.

 

Range has: Dark Bow, Crystal Bow, Runite Crossbow, Zanik's Crossbow, Morrigan's Javelins, Morrigan's Thrownaxes, Handcannon, Dragon Arrows, Dragonstone Bolts, Magic Shortbow, Onyx Bolts, Rune Arrows, Rune Throwing Knives, Dragon Darts, hell, even Red Chinchompas, and probably about 7 more in the upcoming month, weapons that are viable for pking.

 

Magic has: Ice Barrage, Miasmic barrage, and probably about -1 more in the upcoming month, means of dealing damage that are semi-viable for pking.

 

Who should be whining?

[Aneron]

The last thing Runescape needs is another range updaste... Void/d bow hits massively and is basically a one-hit ko on most cases... Rune c'bow with bolts are ridiculously powerful too... The worst thing is, they're also so cheap aswell. No like claws/godswords... For pking this is anyway. As for PvM they are incredibly powerful too.

 

I'd much rather incur a one time 35M expense than have to use ammo so expensive it's literally impossible to profit from PKing.

 

Melee has: Dragon Dagger, Zamorakian Spear, Armadyl Godsword, Bandos Godsword, Abyssal Whip, Dharok's Greataxe, Dragon Scimitar, Dragon Longsword, Dragon Claws, Zamorak Godsword, Dragonfire Shield, Vesta's Longsword, Saradomin Sword, Vesta's Spear, Statius' Warhammer, Granite Maul, Dragon Mace, Granite Mace, Verac's Flail, Saradomin Godsword, and probably about 12 more in the upcoming month, weapons that are viable for pking.

 

Range has: Dark Bow, Crystal Bow, Runite Crossbow, Zanik's Crossbow, Morrigan's Javelins, Morrigan's Thrownaxes, Handcannon, Dragon Arrows, Dragonstone Bolts, Magic Shortbow, Onyx Bolts, Rune Arrows, Rune Throwing Knives, Dragon Darts, hell, even Red Chinchompas, and probably about 7 more in the upcoming month, weapons that are viable for pking.

 

Magic has: Ice Barrage, Miasmic barrage, and probably about -1 more in the upcoming month, means of dealing damage that are semi-viable for pking.

 

Who should be whining?

 

This is because magic attacks with spells instead of weapons, and obviously magic will always want to use the best spell lol. I could argue that magic also has shadow blitz, shadow barrage, smoke barrage, smoke blitz, ice blitz, blood barrage, blood blitz, claws of guthix, saradomin strike, flames of zamorak, fire wave, et cetera. Don't forget you can also use those spells with different staffs! So many combinations! :roll:

 

But in reality there are uses for a large number of those spells for spell stacking, which in light of the recent update is now much more powerful.

 

I think that melee obviously dominates the combat triangle in terms of power and cost efficiency, but jagex is doing well to bring the other areas up to par with it. In terms of power anyways.

[RayOxide]

Melee has: Dragon Dagger, Zamorakian Spear, Armadyl Godsword, Bandos Godsword, Abyssal Whip, Dharok's Greataxe, Dragon Scimitar, Dragon Longsword, Dragon Claws, Zamorak Godsword, Dragonfire Shield, Vesta's Longsword, Saradomin Sword, Vesta's Spear, Statius' Warhammer, Granite Maul, Dragon Mace, Granite Mace, Verac's Flail, Saradomin Godsword, and probably about 12 more in the upcoming month, weapons that are viable for pking.

 

Range has: Dark Bow, Crystal Bow, Runite Crossbow, Zanik's Crossbow, Morrigan's Javelins, Morrigan's Thrownaxes, Handcannon, Dragon Arrows, Dragonstone Bolts, Magic Shortbow, Onyx Bolts, Rune Arrows, Rune Throwing Knives, Dragon Darts, hell, even Red Chinchompas, and probably about 7 more in the upcoming month, weapons that are viable for pking.

 

Magic has: Ice Barrage, Miasmic barrage, and probably about -1 more in the upcoming month, means of dealing damage that are semi-viable for pking.

 

Who should be whining?

 

Well Chee, mage shouldnt because they have a 10% bonus from staves now, not to mention all the spells most mages use in PvP actually work.

Ice barrage? Freezes, almost every time.

Blood barrage? Heals yourself pretty often.

 

Just those 2 examples prove that Mage is more trustworthy for effects than range or melee.

[Cheefoo]

Melee has: Dragon Dagger, Zamorakian Spear, Armadyl Godsword, Bandos Godsword, Abyssal Whip, Dharok's Greataxe, Dragon Scimitar, Dragon Longsword, Dragon Claws, Zamorak Godsword, Dragonfire Shield, Vesta's Longsword, Saradomin Sword, Vesta's Spear, Statius' Warhammer, Granite Maul, Dragon Mace, Granite Mace, Verac's Flail, Saradomin Godsword, and probably about 12 more in the upcoming month, weapons that are viable for pking.

 

Range has: Dark Bow, Crystal Bow, Runite Crossbow, Zanik's Crossbow, Morrigan's Javelins, Morrigan's Thrownaxes, Handcannon, Dragon Arrows, Dragonstone Bolts, Magic Shortbow, Onyx Bolts, Rune Arrows, Rune Throwing Knives, Dragon Darts, hell, even Red Chinchompas, and probably about 7 more in the upcoming month, weapons that are viable for pking.

 

Magic has: Ice Barrage, Miasmic barrage, and probably about -1 more in the upcoming month, means of dealing damage that are semi-viable for pking.

 

Who should be whining?

 

Well Chee, mage shouldnt because they have a 10% bonus from staves now, not to mention all the spells most mages use in PvP actually work.

Ice barrage? Freezes, almost every time.

Blood barrage? Heals yourself pretty often.

 

Just those 2 examples prove that Mage is more trustworthy for effects than range or melee.

 

I was just saying that magic has only a few ways of dealing damage, and range and melee have many various ways to kill things. This isn't an issue about balance, but variation. If it wasn't, everyone would just say "use a rune crossbow, dark bow, or magic shorbow" and it would be [/thread] time. Magic barely gets any updates, and when range gets many powerful updates, people complain that they aren't good enough.

 

Sadly, they are good enough. There is no need to complain, and it is better than nothing, which is what magic has recently been getting.

 

P.S. Everyone who sees a mage just puts on dragonhide or Karil's, and ice barrage does not freeze every time, or even remotely often.

[RayOxide]

The problem about 'variation' is that it's rarely used in Range or Melee either.

 

Melee is like a whip for normal damage and then #GS/SS/DDS/DC for specs (mains)

Range is like .. a rune cbow with broad bolts for training, dragon or diamond (e) bolts for PKing and a dbow for specs.

 

Sure they have more options but what ones of those are actually used?

 

As for freezing, the few times I have used Ice burst, I have frozen about 70-80% of the FIRST shots I used. Now i dont know about the mechanics but its pointless to spam any ice spell as they dont work properly.

And the numerous times I have been ice bursted/barraged even in dhide, I have been frozen, alot of times. Probably about 8/10 times.

And note my defence and magic arent frowned upon.

[howbadisbad]

Where the hell did the rest of the posts go >.>

[RayOxide]

Where the hell did the rest of the posts go >.>

 

Dont you read IMPORTANT notices...

That have IMPORTANT in capitals?!

[howbadisbad]

Where the hell did the rest of the posts go >.>

no

[Youmu]

I don't get it. You're complaining because the released items suck? You don't have to use them you know. <_<

 

If you want to talk F2P melee, well here they are, howbadisbad style:

 

The Bad:

[hide=Daggers]Fail.[/hide]

[hide=Shortswords]Crap.[/hide]

[hide=Maces]Only useful for prayer, and even then it's negligible.[/hide]

[hide=Warhammers]Lol.[/hide]

[hide=Battleaxes]Ever since 2H, it's obsolete.[/hide]

 

The Good:

Scimitars: Best weapon in F2P, nuff said.

Longswords: Slower than scim but more powerful and accurate, and it has an awesome stab.

2H: Awesome KO weapon.

 

Btw, since you are talking about P2P ranged, you should add shortbows to that list. "Ever since rune crossbows, magic shortbows are useless." :rolleyes:

[howbadisbad]

I don't get it. You're complaining because the released items suck? You don't have to use them you know. <_<

 

If you want to talk F2P melee, well here they are, howbadisbad style:

 

The Bad:

[hide=Daggers]Fail.[/hide]

[hide=Shortswords]Crap.[/hide]

[hide=Maces]Only useful for prayer, and even then it's negligible.[/hide]

[hide=Warhammers]Lol.[/hide]

[hide=Battleaxes]Ever since 2H, it's obsolete.[/hide]

 

The Good:

Scimitars: Best weapon in F2P, nuff said.

Longswords: Slower than scim but more powerful and accurate, and it has an awesome stab.

2H: Awesome KO weapon.

 

Btw, since you are talking about P2P ranged, you should add shortbows to that list. "Ever since rune crossbows, magic shortbows are useless." :rolleyes:

 

Shortbows are on that list

 

And i will not tell you that your arguments are obsolete and stupid because jaffy is a nub and should not need large explanations for most things on my list like javelins since they are self-explainatory.

 

I aggre with your rant about f2p, but f2p is just a demo of the real game tbh. It's free so you can't expect it to be more balanced than p2p. (even tho it prbably is.) <.<

[Gudi]

Wrong thread lulz.

[Sir_Kurity]

Unless this game has changed alot since i left, ranged would still win verses melee.

[kintar]

Is the hand cannon really that bad? The ammo costs 1/10 what it used to cost, so it's fairly affordable, and it has one of the best DPS of ranged weapons.

[howbadisbad]

Is the hand cannon really that bad? The ammo costs 1/10 what it used to cost, so it's fairly affordable, and it has one of the best DPS of ranged weapons.

 

 

Best dps? Are you on crack?

 

It's good but not THAT good.

 

I havent updated the first posts tbh

[Youmu]

Anyways, point still stands.

 

Just because there are only 2-3 good Ranged weapons and all the other ones suck does not mean Ranged sucks.