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What are your views on suicide? Are you against it?

 

I am 100% pro suicide. I think it would further the human race if everybody committed suicide!

 

(this isn't in seriousness, just poking fun at how the question was worded.)

 

 

 

It's she, thank you, and I was actually hoping that your average OTer wouldn't need me to walk them through my rather blatant logic. :s

 

Please don't act like you're superior to us because you made a crappy argument that wasn't well-explained, then expected us to waste time thinking about it when from the get-go it was obvious that it was going to just cause flames and annoyance.

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Yeah, maybe manslaughter/murder was a bit extreme, but still, some sort of punishment should be in order. It's just disgusting.

I was going to eat hot dogs for dinner tonight. I think I will settle for cereal.

 

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I think I already answered this question in this forums, but... Being a non believer, I think I would never kill myself. Of course, I'm saying this right now, sitting infront of a computer, with no worries about anything, so I can't be certain of that, but I think I wouldn't do it. Everyone is free to do whatever they want with their lives, so I have to say that if someone wants to kill himself, it's his choice, no matter how stupid it is, and if there's no talking that person out of it, let him do it.

Also, since someone already opened the subject of abortion, I'm OK with it. Obviously, with some kind of justification other than "LOL I didn't want to use a condom and she didn't want to use pills and I don't like pulling out so now shes pregnant give abortion pls!!" (for example, a woman getting pregnant because of rape).

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Please don't act like you're superior to us because you made a crappy argument that wasn't well-explained, then expected us to waste time thinking about it when from the get-go it was obvious that it was going to just cause flames and annoyance.

 

She was simply pointing out that living should be a "right" rather than a "responsibility". What's so wrong about that? I mean, I disagree with her but come the hell on people...

 

Yeah, maybe manslaughter/murder was a bit extreme, but still, some sort of punishment should be in order. It's just disgusting.

 

Something a lot of courts look at is intent. I think purposely egging on a suicide indicates far worse intentions than most cases of manslaughter (which are often because of negligence).

 

PS: I've always found it funny when people try to justify suicide because "their brain chemicals made them do it", but then cover their ears when you bring up homicides.

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Please don't act like you're superior to us because you made a crappy argument that wasn't well-explained, then expected us to waste time thinking about it when from the get-go it was obvious that it was going to just cause flames and annoyance.

 

She was simply pointing out that living should be a "right" rather than a "responsibility". What's so wrong about that? I mean, I disagree with her but come the hell on people...

 

Yeah, maybe manslaughter/murder was a bit extreme, but still, some sort of punishment should be in order. It's just disgusting.

 

Something a lot of courts look at is intent. I think purposely egging on a suicide indicates far worse intentions than most cases of manslaughter (which are often because of negligence). But then again, should you really get in trouble from just words?

 

PS: I've always found it funny when people try to justify suicide because "their brain chemicals made them do it", but then cover their ears when you bring up homicides.

 

 

Because there's obviously a difference between killing yourself and killing another human being.

 

^ Double sarcasm. Very rare these days.

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Sorry, I don't get what you're saying. Are you agreeing with me or disagreeing?

 

Lol, the power of double sarcasm... I don't even know what I'm saying, Lol.

 

 

Anyway, I was just saying that "chemicals" in the brain are a viable defense against people who think it's their right to impose their views on someone who wants to kill themselves. I'm not saying I want to person to kill themselves; just saying that if there's absolutely no way to cure them of their mental illness, then it's not up to me to say what they're doing is wrong.

 

"Chemicals in the brain" aren't, however, a good defense against homicide because, well, killing another person isn't as violent of an act as committing suicide -- at least to the person being killed. I'm sure there are certain chemicals involved when someone is getting ready to kill someone/is already killing someone, but letting that person free is like saying, "well, I'm sure that wont happen again." In the case of the person committing suicide, I damn sure hope it wont happen again. Don't want zombies in my neighborhood.

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I do see it as a cowardly way out, but I do realize there can be severe issues involved that make it far more complicated than it seems at first glance.

If you've ever known someone who's suicidal for a good reason, or been in that situation I don't think you'd have the same opinion on it being cowardly.

My dad knew a guy who tried to kill himself, his wife and kids died in a car accident, he was put in a wheelchair. I forget what his job was, but it required physical work so he lost his job as well. I just don't think the guy really had anything more to live for at that point.

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but letting that person free is like saying, "well, I'm sure that wont happen again.

 

I'm not talking about letting them free. Even if it wasn't their fault, people would still want them locked up to prevent it from happening again. I'm talking about how people see murder as wrong, and still say suicide is okay because you shouldn't be accountable for it due to factors influencing you.

 

People like having something to put the blame on. When it comes to suicide, to blame the killer would also be to blame the victim. So who can we blame it on now to satisfy everyone? We blame it on brain chemicals. Ever notice how we never blame brain chemicals for rapes and homicides? That's because we can blame the perpetrator without also blaming the victim. It's a convenient little ploy to prevent feelings from getting hurt.

 

The reality is this: Suicide is not an involuntary action. Your body does not automatically grab a knife and start stabbing itself. It is you who does that. Sure, there might be uncontrollable thoughts that surge through your brain, but to use that as an entire justification for doing certain actions is just ridiculous. You can use that to try and justify anything wrong. Things might lead and influence you to do bad things, but ultimately, it is you who makes the decision in the end. Depression doesn't force you to commit suicide, it just makes you want to.

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But then again, should you really get in trouble from just words?

 

 

..... Are you serious? Have you NEVER experienced, for example, high school? If not, let me put it in to perspective for you. You remember hearing the old "sticks and stones" line a while back? Personally, that's the biggest pile of [cabbage] that has ever been told on this planet. Sticks and stones cause damage to the body. Words cause damage to the soul. Want proof? Go tell a little kid that their puppy died. [sarcasm]You didn't do anything physically to them, so what's the harm in that?[/sarcasm]

 

The first step to preventing suicide is to understand why people do it. In the cases of people who are actually suicidal and not doing it for the lulz (see people's reactions), in almost all cases they're so mentally and spiritually scarred by their circumstances that they feel the only way to get out of it is with a hot lead injection. It might be a kid who was bullied mercilessly for the duration of their school life, it might be the mother whose child was stillborn. There's MANY different things that could result in suicidal tendencies. We need to recognize these cases, and act appropriately. This means counseling and actual intervention, NOT straitjackets and pills. Those just prolong the problem, and sometimes make it even worse. It would also be prudent to identify the most common reasons for people to try suicide and to change those.

 

For example, the most prominent reason for teen suicide is because of torment inflicted by their peers and the inability or unwillingness of authority figures (school officials, parents, etc.) to do something about it. If memory serves correctly, along with the already-present mental problems they had, the Columbine shooters were also bullied extensively throughout their school days. Things like this would be altogether easily countered if a few things would take place. First, the faculty must be able to recognize when a student is being bullied and take correct action (just talking to the bully or suspension rarely does anything, and can make it worse). Second, the students must realize the damage they're causing when they do this and let it happen. Third, parents must know the warning signs and how to prevent the problem from getting to that level in the first place (interaction with their kids helps a great deal). Sure, not EVERY case can be caught this way, but this should at least help.

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Yeah, now that I think about it, there are many occasions where saying something should get you into trouble, such as threats. Scrap that. :P

 

For example, the most prominent reason for teen suicide is because of torment inflicted by their peers and the inability or unwillingness of authority figures (school officials, parents, etc.) to do something about it. If memory serves correctly, along with the already-present mental problems they had, the Columbine shooters were also bullied extensively throughout their school days. Things like this would be altogether easily countered if a few things would take place. First, the faculty must be able to recognize when a student is being bullied and take correct action (just talking to the bully or suspension rarely does anything, and can make it worse). Second, the students must realize the damage they're causing when they do this and let it happen. Third, parents must know the warning signs and how to prevent the problem from getting to that level in the first place (interaction with their kids helps a great deal). Sure, not EVERY case can be caught this way, but this should at least help.

 

For the most part, I agree with you. There are two things I would like to challenge though.

 

1.) Sometimes getting a teacher involved can make matters worse. If the bully gets into trouble with the school, well, that's just another reason for him to be angry at you and to see you as "weak". And there are teachers out there who really don't care anyways.

 

2.) I'll take it that your main point was this: Humanity should try to prevent bullying to the best of our ability. I agree with this, except you didn't include the victim. I believe the victims have a role in the fight against bullying too.

 

To answer your question (this is relevant to # 2, so bare with me), I have experienced school and I've also experienced my fair share of bullying. I used to let the stupid things they said get to me. Then I matured and realized they were the idiots - not me. So from my experiences, not letting them get the best of you is the best cure for bullying. Of course the rest of society has a pretty important role too. Parents, teachers, and friends alike should try to help bully victims with their self-esteem problems.

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I believe suicide is perfectly fine. If you have a right to live, you should have a right to die. I've thought about it. Best I don't say why suicide is good and how it could be infinite bliss in case someone disagrees with me, and I wouldn't want that. But when people believe in heaven/hell and all the nonsensical(dead men tell no tales) afterdeath resorts, it can get more complicated. Nothing really matters that much; if you're against suicide then you are taking life too seriously. It could definitely be a reasonable choice if you've nothing to live for, no relatives, no friends, no money, bad physical/mental state etc. I'm not planning on killing myself though. If someone with a sound mind wants to kill themself then you've no right to stop them because we're all going to die eventually so there's no real point. Please don't try to change my opinion.

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I do see it as a cowardly way out, but I do realize there can be severe issues involved that make it far more complicated than it seems at first glance.

If you've ever known someone who's suicidal for a good reason, or been in that situation I don't think you'd have the same opinion on it being cowardly.

My dad knew a guy who tried to kill himself, his wife and kids died in a car accident, he was put in a wheelchair. I forget what his job was, but it required physical work so he lost his job as well. I just don't think the guy really had anything more to live for at that point.

I know several people who are suicidal, and have attempted it. Regardless - life can be tough - very tough - but it goes on, regardless of what happens, and is always worth living. I know it's easier to say being in my position, with a fairly decent life, but I still think that no matter what happens, suicide isn't an answer - its avoiding the problem.

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Yeah, now that I think about it, there are many occasions where saying something should get you into trouble, such as threats. Scrap that. :P

 

For example, the most prominent reason for teen suicide is because of torment inflicted by their peers and the inability or unwillingness of authority figures (school officials, parents, etc.) to do something about it. If memory serves correctly, along with the already-present mental problems they had, the Columbine shooters were also bullied extensively throughout their school days. Things like this would be altogether easily countered if a few things would take place. First, the faculty must be able to recognize when a student is being bullied and take correct action (just talking to the bully or suspension rarely does anything, and can make it worse). Second, the students must realize the damage they're causing when they do this and let it happen. Third, parents must know the warning signs and how to prevent the problem from getting to that level in the first place (interaction with their kids helps a great deal). Sure, not EVERY case can be caught this way, but this should at least help.

 

For the most part, I agree with you. There are two things I would like to challenge though.

 

1.) Sometimes getting a teacher involved can make matters worse. If the bully gets into trouble with the school, well, that's just another reason for him to be angry at you and to see you as "weak". And there are teachers out there who really don't care anyways.

 

2.) I'll take it that your main point was this: Humanity should try to prevent bullying to the best of our ability. I agree with this, except you didn't include the victim. I believe the victims have a role in the fight against bullying too.

 

To answer your question (this is relevant to # 2, so bare with me), I have experienced school and I've also experienced my fair share of bullying. I used to let the stupid things they said get to me. Then I matured and realized they were the idiots - not me. So from my experiences, not letting them get the best of you is the best cure for bullying. Of course the rest of society has a pretty important role too. Parents, teachers, and friends alike should try to help bully victims with their self-esteem problems.

 

 

1) That's precisely the thing I want to change. I want it that if the school gets involved, then the problem is made to end, period. If the person(s) in question is unwilling to listen to reason, then there are other routes that can be taken to prevent their ability to torment someone. Prison in the case of violent acts, thievery, and slander/libel should do the trick, even if it's the kiddie version. If it doesn't, that's why it's legal to defend yourself and others from assault. There needs to be some way for the authorities to be able to prevent these sorts of things, and they need to be willing to do so. If they refuse to prevent the kids in their charge from being terrorized, then they should be fired, possibly brought up on "contributing to the delinquency of a minor" charges.

 

2) If the victim gets other people involved, chances are it's beyond their capacity to handle on their own. Also, how precisely do you propose that gets accomplished?

 

Not everyone has that sort of resistance to bullying. I have a similar experience, only I've almost always laughed off bully attempts directed at me once I was past grade 5. I have seen what it's like for people who don't have that sort of willpower, and I can tell you definitively that it can be the closest thing to Hell on this planet that doesn't involve the infliction of physical agony. That sight has made me militant in this case, if you didn't pick that up already.

You never know which rabbit hole you jump into will lead to Wonderland. - Ember3579

Aku Soku Zan. - Shinsengumi

You wanna mess with me or my friends? Pick your poison.

If you have any complaints about me, please refer to this link. Your problems are important to me.

Don't talk smack if you're not willing to say it to the person's face. On the same line, if you're not willing to back up your opinions no matter what, your opinion may as well be nonexistent.

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Suicide, in my opinion, is a way to escape from the worst things in life that happened to one.

 

I see it as a cowardly way out, but to the person that commit suicide, the situation that caused them to do this can be extremely complicated.

 

People don't just kill themselves for no reason, y'know. If so, then much more people would die.

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I do think that egging someone on to commit suicide (who is actually depressed) really should be punishable. Maybe not considered manslaughter or murder, but certainly more should happen then just a slap on the wrist.

It already is if the state or the family can prove it. If you confide your suicidal behavior in someone like a doctor or a counselor, they are legally bound to tell a higher authority even if it breaks an privacy privileges. You don't even have to prompt their behavior to be legally charged. If you knew that someone planned on killing themselves or someone else, you can and will be prosecuted to the full extent of the law provided there is evidence to prove it.

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The point is that its your life. you don't even have to think twice that you're totally selfish to commit such acts since it wouldn't matter anyways. i think the main problem is that we have to look into what life is doing to these people. as we know, there are more than a billion of us going through poverty, hate, discrimination, financial stress everyday so why do we have to keep living for the sake of these undesirable situations? as for teenagers, some of us don't feel the need to be happy and belonged, which is why they try to answer that in the most terrible ways possible. cutting yourself is one, but they end up resorting to suicide to create guilt. more guilt = more good.

 

i'm gonna stop it from here. I'm sounding like a fricken newspaper.

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Yeah, now that I think about it, there are many occasions where saying something should get you into trouble, such as threats. Scrap that. :P

 

For example, the most prominent reason for teen suicide is because of torment inflicted by their peers and the inability or unwillingness of authority figures (school officials, parents, etc.) to do something about it. If memory serves correctly, along with the already-present mental problems they had, the Columbine shooters were also bullied extensively throughout their school days. Things like this would be altogether easily countered if a few things would take place. First, the faculty must be able to recognize when a student is being bullied and take correct action (just talking to the bully or suspension rarely does anything, and can make it worse). Second, the students must realize the damage they're causing when they do this and let it happen. Third, parents must know the warning signs and how to prevent the problem from getting to that level in the first place (interaction with their kids helps a great deal). Sure, not EVERY case can be caught this way, but this should at least help.

 

For the most part, I agree with you. There are two things I would like to challenge though.

 

1.) Sometimes getting a teacher involved can make matters worse. If the bully gets into trouble with the school, well, that's just another reason for him to be angry at you and to see you as "weak". And there are teachers out there who really don't care anyways.

 

 

This is very true, hah, my first year in public school (8th grade) I was bullied... Now that I look back, I deserved it (I snitched a LOT.. I was such a nerd.)But when I went to the AP about it, she brought the kid in with me >.< and the kid was like "well he does it too" and she didn't ask me if I actually did do it as well, so she said "boys will be boys" and sent us back to class. And from then on I was the "snitch." I guess it didn't really matter, cuz now that kool kat bully is now in 10th grade for the 3rd time. XD

 

But I agree with everything else in Ember's post.

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Edit: Okay, scratch that. Now I've actually read the replies to this thread I'm going to change what I said.

 

I can't stand people who say suicide is cowardly. Selfish in some circumstances, maybe, but it isn't cowardly. If you have ever had any form of depression, be it bipolar or major, I doubt you'd be sitting there saying suicide is the coward's way out. I'm willing to bet anything you haven't experienced it. Oh, and to those people saying "let 'em" - would you be saying that if it was a family member? I doubt it.

 

And words do hurt. I was constantly bullied by people I didn't know, both at school and walking around, almost every day for years. As a result, I'm incredibly shy, almost constantly afraid of people judging me and so I rarely ever talk for fear of it starting again, and I always assume if someone is laughing it is at me, etc. Quite frankly, I'd rather have gone to school and have someone punch me in the face. I know other people who are similar because of the same reason. Bruises fade, but those words stay with you.

 

Speaking from experience, I can completely understand why someone would want to commit suicide. Regarding depression (though I'm aware the thread isn't about depression and I probably shouldn't keep coming back to it. It's just that most suicide cases are because of it), eventually everything just becomes too much and you feel it's not going to get better. Chances are, it will eventually, but I can still understand it.

 

Also, as I said, I do believe suicide is selfish in a way. You're leaving family and friends behind, possibly leading them to feel guilty for the rest of their lives. I've read stories about people killing themselves over a brother or sister who have done the same thing. At the same time, is it right to want someone to stay alive if they are miserable every day?

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  • 8 months later...

People who aren't suicidal will never understand that gut feeling that depressed/suicidal people feel.

They think by denouncing it, they are doing the right thing. That's just a load of bull. I personally think that everyone has their choice to either live or die. I never fully understood why everyone who is 'well' tries to keep you from offing yourself. They lack foresight. Honestly, if someone is on the verge of killing themselves and you drag them to a doctor, they are never going to get better, they'll just get all hopped up on anti-depressants that they'll eventually think that there better, but they never will be. People only try to save suicidal people because they think that it's the right thing for themselves, but not for whoever they are trying to 'save'. The reason they do this is because they'll eventually think that when the person 'recovers' they'll contribute something positive to society. No one ever does that, society is always degrading.

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its a touchy topic for me. I knew this girl that went through some really horrible stuff (like unimaginably painful experiences) and ended up killing herself. that's alright, but in most cases, its just some [wagon] whose not man enough to take on hard times.

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