Found a smoking mils interview

[simple013]

The one thing about most comments I don't understand is this: If it were that simple as most of you tell it is, why aren't there more people engaging in merchanting? The other thing: Why, if thìs in a virtual game is morally bankrupt, CEO's of rl companies making 250m per year are seen as 'great people'? Remember Madoff? Celebrated for a long, long time...

[3hitm4g3u]

I hope he trips over his wireless mouse and breaks his arms.

...For your sake, I hope that was a bad joke.

 

Actually, it was a pretty amusing joke.

[Rien]

I hope he trips over his wireless mouse and breaks his arms.

...For your sake, I hope that was a bad joke.

 

Actually, it was a pretty amusing joke.

Meh, to each his own then. I don't find "jokes" about bodily harm amusing, and I'm not entirely sure he meant it as a joke to begin with. :unsure:

 

 

The one thing about most comments I don't understand is this: If it were that simple as most of you tell it is, why aren't there more people engaging in merchanting? The other thing: Why, if thìs in a virtual game is morally bankrupt, CEO's of rl companies making 250m per year are seen as 'great people'? Remember Madoff? Celebrated for a long, long time...

Price manipulation IS easy; there's virtually no risk involved as long as you can recruit naïve "investors" to back you. Similiarly to 76king, many players choose not to take part in this since they consider it to be morally reprehensible - not because it poses too much of a "challenge". These manipulators are quite literally stealing from the game's playerbase, and it really couldn't be simpler for them.

 

As for the real-life aspect, "cornering the market" (essentially what the manipulators are doing ingame) is a federal offense. People like Madoff (those running pyramid schemes) are able to circumvent the law, for the most part, only by remaining secretive and paying off the right people, since they'd be thrown in jail otherwise. The fact that many CEOs and other top business leaders are considered "great people" is due to the fact that they're successful in what they do, so they're viewed as role models of a sort. Propaganda, no doubt, also has a hand in it, and this interview is only one more example of this.

 

*This isn't to say that all business leaders are corrupt, of course, as many have achieved what they have on merit alone, and this is important to remember.* The same principle doesn't apply to ingame manipulation clan leaders, however, as legitimate merchanters don't attempt to influence item prices directly.

[Suiku]

This kind of thing happen in real life too, someones gets incredibly rich by the loss of others, but you wouldn't put them on jail, would you? same thing happens. he was smarter than the rest of the players, he plans, and goes for the money, but you can't blame him for that

[Silver_Corner]

I hope he trips over his wireless mouse and breaks his arms.

...For your sake, I hope that was a bad joke.

 

Actually, it was a pretty amusing joke.

Meh, to each his own then. I don't find "jokes" about bodily harm amusing, and I'm not entirely sure he meant it as a joke to begin with. :unsure:

 

I don't think the joke was focused on the bodily harm aspect, but rather that he is so stupid he can trip over a wireless mouse. (which doesn't have a cord to trip over)

 

This kind of thing happen in real life too, someones gets incredibly rich by the loss of others, but you wouldn't put them on jail, would you? same thing happens. he was smarter than the rest of the players, he plans, and goes for the money, but you can't blame him for that

 

It depends how you get rich. If someone was using this "pyramid scheme" type merchanting in the real economy, he would likely get some jail time. Price Manipulation IS illegal in the real world, just not in the game world.

[Master_Smither]

This article just stresses the point that price manipulators are doing something very wrong if they have to stage questions and spread propaganda like that. :shame:

 

This kind of thing happen in real life too, someones gets incredibly rich by the loss of others, but you wouldn't put them on jail, would you? same thing happens. he was smarter than the rest of the players, he plans, and goes for the money, but you can't blame him for that

 

People do get put in jail for gaining off the loss of others such as...Bernie Madoff. He's not smarter than the rest of the players, the rest of the players have morals and would rather make money honestly.

[simple013]

I hope he trips over his wireless mouse and breaks his arms.

...For your sake, I hope that was a bad joke.

 

Actually, it was a pretty amusing joke.

Meh, to each his own then. I don't find "jokes" about bodily harm amusing, and I'm not entirely sure he meant it as a joke to begin with. :unsure:

 

 

The one thing about most comments I don't understand is this: If it were that simple as most of you tell it is, why aren't there more people engaging in merchanting? The other thing: Why, if thìs in a virtual game is morally bankrupt, CEO's of rl companies making 250m per year are seen as 'great people'? Remember Madoff? Celebrated for a long, long time...

The fact that many CEOs and other top business leaders are considered "great people" is due to the fact that they're successful in what they do, so they're viewed as role models of a sort. Propaganda, no doubt, also has a hand in it, and this interview is only one more example of this.

 

*This isn't to say that all business leaders are corrupt, of course, as many have achieved what they have on merit alone, and this is important to remember.* The same principle doesn't apply to ingame manipulation clan leaders, however, as legitimate merchanters don't attempt to influence item prices directly.

You are going to tell me there is something real about an exec making 250m per year? It means about 5m per week or, with working 140hrs per week (4hrs sleep per day), about 36k per hour. There is no way someone actually earns that, it is robbing any company blind.

[FirenLazah]

Only read the first 6 or so question to know this guys a failure.

[Romy]

This is what Jagex get for bringing out the GE. It's their fault and I hope merch clans either continue smashing the economy or Jagex remove trade limits and the GE.

 

What good would that do? I don't want to be back in the days where each yew tree was surrounded by 20 level 3s not even playing the game.

[canadiansmurf]

Not one thread so far supporting merch clans.

Clearly RS players are fed up over the economy and artificial GE shortages.

 

FIXED PRICES FOR ITEMS

 

The only solution that jagex could implement that would work and be cost and labour effective for Jagex would be to set fixed prices with far more strict item caps on the number of items you can purchase at once so one player can't just hoard most items. If there was high demand if a new skill was introduced or new items were introduced jagex would have to monitor and manually adjust some prices but the bulk of prices would remain fixed. For example a 200 million purple phat. Forever.

 

^ This will cause chaos, items will not sell on GE, it will be frustrating for all players.

Or it could work who knows.

 

 

 

With so many whiners, complainers about merch clans within the player ranks I would prefer to see a player solution to merch clans.

This is a MMORPG.

 

 

 

If an item is being merched and you need it or others can supply it to you who are non-merchers some sort of network should be set up to bypass the GE even if it means losing a bit of profit.

 

Also there is always DIY. Take a stand don't pay overinflated prices. Check the GE if an items price has been steadily rising and you can get it via DIY do DIY.

 

Also whenever there are popular skills like the current herby craze choose to level another skill that is less costly at the moment. There are 24 skills to pick from including skills that require very little gp.

 

Plan ahead, keep a solid supply of basics if you can like runes etc. Also figure out what skills you want to level follow GE prices and purchase when the prices are good.

 

The other side of this coin is to not sell your items when prices are dropping. Hold onto it if you can afford it and sell when its rising.

 

IF the average player was smarter they would sell when their item prices go higher and if an item was too expensive pass on it, just don't buy it.

 

 

Everyone is anti merchant.

Pre GE trade restrictions people hated merchants.

Now people hate merchants.

 

The more things change the more they stay the same.

 

Personally I could care less about merchants the bulk of my wealth is from pre-GE trade restrictions and merchant clans don't affect my gameplay.

 

I've never participated in GE merchanting either it bores the hell out of me. I loved pre ge merch without price restrictions though it was fun.

 

 

Also merching does fill a need, I would rather overpay for certain items than gather them myself due to opportunity costs. I can earn more gp doing other things instead of gathering my own water filled vials for example. Due to current GE restrictions the vials I need can only be purchased with junk. I can't complain about it being overpriced because for me it isn't. I save gp with the junk trade as I can earn more gp per hour doing other things.

 

There is such uneven wealth in RS and that is a problem.

 

 

As for greed it annoys me that some players are dying to purchase rares when for the longest time rares were considered junk after Ge restrictions. I held onto my rares when prices plummetted. Now when I wear my rares its annoying that people are saying nice phat. When they were junk and I wore them people would comment on how they were junk. For me rares represent a piece of RS history, I'm not interested in their cost and if they were made untradeable I would be happy.

 

 

RS players are fickle, and competitive and greedy. As for the clan leader being greedy its not only him. The normal everyday RS player who participates in merch clans is greedier in my opinion.

 

Some players want to get rich quick, for them merch clans are the way. Every game has its cheats and for RS merch clans are one. Sit back and earn gp.

 

I don't hate merchanting clans, but I don't support them either.

 

I don't support solo GE merchants either.

[Trollface]

Mmm....doublespeak based interview. Read between the lines, and his true nature is revealed.

[Mecakoto]

Waste of 6 Minutes typing.

 

You do realize that you are not everyone and you cannot make those generalisations, right? The only reason people hated Merchants before the GE is because they were unable to do it themselves.

 

And in regards to your first 2 sentences: The people who don't take advantage or can't cry the loudest. Look at the new potions for the prime example.

 

There are other things wrong with your post, but I will not point it out because it should be obvious just how illogical those arguments are. That, or you contradict yourself on some of your points.

[Diomedus]

I personaly love the ge, but I don't like people abusing it

 

Please continue arguing, I am finding some parts amusing

 

I do hate the part that he said "It's okay to take a little bit from a lot of people"

[Toad]

Tbh it's rather sad on Jagexs part, don't ban the people but let them scam more and more daily, and only get more gp to screw up the economy.

 

Jagex showed some real grit and determination with the trade-cap etc and stood firm, yet here it's turn a blind eye, we'll let you scam players.

 

Same as house luring it's not against the rules but it was bug abuse really, anybody else sick of prices sky-high not being able to buy or sell specific items at certain times ruining the gameplay for everybody else.

 

I admire companies that make strong decisions regarding outstanding issues not saying it's a pyramid scheme, we're just going to warn users and let them continue scamming.

[lordkafei]

Look on the bright side - exposure to pyramid schemes in a play setting might make you better equipped to recognize them in real life.

 

Education is the best way to fight merch clans. No changes to the GE short of absolute price fixing will have any realistic effect. And I am adamantly opposed to price fixing.

 

I do not think there is any way to remove merching from the game. Having said that, I believe Jagex should move to take advantage of them to the greatest benefit of the game at large.

 

I believe there should be a tax on all transactions in the GE. Call it a sales tax or a value added tax or whatever. Whether it's flat rate or graduated, I really don't care. But every time some mercher buys and sells items through the GE, a portion of the GP should be removed. This would let the emergent gameplay continue and add a new money sink to the game. I further state the tax should be punitive and heavy - a tax of 50% would not be out of line, IMO.

 

Right now, there is no real long-term cost to merchanting. That must change.

 

If Billy Bob sells his home grown herbs or the ores he mined with his own virtual sweat, there should be no tax. The tax should only come into play if an item was bought, held & sold for profit. This would encourage people to produce instead of depending on merching.

 

I know I will take some abuse over this position. But I do believe merching is a textbook example of emergent gameplay, and I think it has a place in RuneScape. Jagex might as well take advantage of it to address the inflated money supply.

[Rien]

I don't think the joke was focused on the bodily harm aspect, but rather that he is so stupid he can trip over a wireless mouse. (which doesn't have a cord to trip over)

Ahh, I have a poor sense of humour. :o

 

 

The fact that many CEOs and other top business leaders are considered "great people" is due to the fact that they're successful in what they do, so they're viewed as role models of a sort.

You are going to tell me there is something real about an exec making 250m per year? It means about 5m per week or, with working 140hrs per week (4hrs sleep per day), about 36k per hour. There is no way someone actually earns that, it is robbing any company blind.

I...don't understand? I never mentioned that anyone was making 250m/year (you did, in fact), and I can't see how that's relevant to begin with. You asked why others often believe such people to be "great men", and I answered you by stating that, since they're successful in their work, they're often emulated (seeing as most people, to some degree, wish to "succeed in life").

 

However, I can see where you're going with this, so I'll be presumptuous and correct you before you go too far; not all people who earn exorbitant salaries are necessarily corrupt. In the real world, there are many wealthy people, but it would be fallacious - and incredibly unrealistic - to assume that they all made their money through some unsavoury means. Undoubtably, there are those that have and continue to do so, but you shouldn't tar wealthy people (as a whole) with the same brush simply because some of them may be at fault.

 

But again, as I said in my other post, the leaders of manipulation clans ingame aren't protected by this principle; there is no "reasonable doubt" afforded them. Manipulation clans, by definition, attempt to directly influence item prices by generating an extraordinary amount of artificial demand and thus profit from the ensuing chaos. Therefore, and again by definition, anyone running such a clan is guilty of cornering the market and running a pyramid scheme - both of which are serious crimes in the real world.

 

*EDIT* Typos

Edited October 26, 2009 by Rien_Adelric

[Guest TrixStar]

One thing I noticed comparing to WoW is that everything can be spread accross every world. If you actually made the worlds seperate and people had to choose a world where only they could play the economy would fix itself. Of course this would never fly at this point in RuneScapes life.

[Dirkmetal]

What we could do is make the GE of each world not connected. This would make it very hard to manipulate the prices. You would need MASSIVE clans to raise the price of one item in every world. That means that, yes they could still manipulate items, but they could not manipulate as many items at once.

 

Natural price fluctuation would not be affected, because a normal player would see that he could get a better deal on another world so he would hop causing that worlds prices to rise along with all of the other ones. This would allow peopel to make money by trading between worlds.

[strilmus]

(I considered not posting this at all like I happen to do for 80 percent of any posts I write, but this time I am going to post this. I don't care about ignoring this any longer.)

 

Although I think that it is likely that you are correct in that the article is just padding out his false Santa suit, I would like to see some sort of investigative report on these activities before I can bring my judgement to bear.

 

Thing is, I can't really see how it's wrong when everybody agrees to this behavior on some level. Oh, so he's stealing from everybody in Runescape, and is justifying it by saying "it's just a little." (Paraphrased.) But you're all GIVING IT TO HIM. If it really mattered to the point where you wanted him gone forever or dead or just maimed or whatnot, you would all be willing to just collectively stop playing the game altogether and ruin everything for them in the span of a month or so, then go back and continue in relative bliss.

 

However, it is never that easy. I cannot blame him or his cohorts or all the copycats directly. There are always people to replace the villains of today: pointing fingers really doesn't do much at all. It is society as a whole that needs to learn about these behavior patterns and avoid them. This is unlikely in our lifetime.

 

To an extent, everything takes some kind of effort to learn about. Just because it's easy to do something once you know how to do it doesn't make the learning part any easier. I could basically reduce every aspect of this game to the point where you could take each one, compare it to merchanting, and consider them both needing just as much equivalent effort. Runescape is built entirely on imaginary skill, with the few actual efforts being made whenever players are forced to compete with other players. By that scale, merchants are the master skillers, having gone so far as to not even use any of the "imaginary skill" you folks put so much stock in, and make everybody else willingly work for them. This is the kind of thing that criticizes people who have high herblore and gives the game over to "more honest PKers" who only train a few skills (the fewer skill types, the better! says pures) and profit from the "honest skillers that don't do combat" who AFK while fishing and chat with their friends. Apparently training herblore (or being able to afford it) gives an unfair advantage in combat, but when combat gives 90 percent of all useful things circulating in the game, including herbs, and skillers are forced to pay ridiculous prices for combat drops and constantly have their wares devalued by further combat drops containing their produce, plus have diminishing returns over time due to lack of demand, it is entirely okay.

 

That is the thing about Runescape; somebody mentioned earlier somewhere that they liked the game because they are free to do anything without being locked into one type of gameplay. This is true in more ways than you can imagine.

 

So why even bother complaining? Fight back! Merchants may work on a different set of rules than normal players, but those rules still exist, and if you break them, you will kill their joy as easily as they kill yours. I'm sure there are many people who are as fed up with merchants as there are greedy people. Organize them, find a way to take the merchants down, and destroy them like the slugs you compare them to.

 

Or would that be too much work? Because when merchants do it, they're not putting any actual effort into it at all, are they? RIGHT?

[Golvellius]

Interview with another RWTer?

He is nothing special.

Next!

[Youmu]

Many questions have been raised about the mass advertisement from accounts set up with auto-bots, not just from your merch clan but all of them...can you comment on this from your side?

 

I can understand the fact that it may be annoying to some players seeing the advertising every time the go to the G.E. in some worlds. Our clan only uses 7-8 advertising accounts, and players can add them to their ignore list to mute them permanently.

Why does every merch clan use botting accounts just for advertising?

 

This is the exact reason why I dislike merch clans.

[Dirkmetal]

(I considered not posting this at all like I happen to do for 80 percent of any posts I write, but this time I am going to post this. I don't care about ignoring this any longer.)

 

Although I think that it is likely that you are correct in that the article is just padding out his false Santa suit, I would like to see some sort of investigative report on these activities before I can bring my judgement to bear.

 

Thing is, I can't really see how it's wrong when everybody agrees to this behavior on some level. Oh, so he's stealing from everybody in Runescape, and is justifying it by saying "it's just a little." (Paraphrased.) But you're all GIVING IT TO HIM. If it really mattered to the point where you wanted him gone forever or dead or just maimed or whatnot, you would all be willing to just collectively stop playing the game altogether and ruin everything for them in the span of a month or so, then go back and continue in relative bliss.

How are we giving it to him, by merely existing as players? Your answer to stop this type of thing is to leave the game?

Even if you could cause a huge mass of people to up, and quit for one month. It would still not be enough, there would still be so many players playing that it would barely have any effect.

 

However, it is never that easy. I cannot blame him or his cohorts or all the copycats directly. There are always people to replace the villains of today: pointing fingers really doesn't do much at all. It is society as a whole that needs to learn about these behavior patterns and avoid them. This is unlikely in our lifetime.

This is why we need to fix the system. Not just go with some off-the-wall plan like boycotting .

 

To an extent, everything takes some kind of effort to learn about. Just because it's easy to do something once you know how to do it doesn't make the learning part any easier. I could basically reduce every aspect of this game to the point where you could take each one, compare it to merchanting, and consider them both needing just as much equivalent effort. Runescape is built entirely on imaginary skill, with the few actual efforts being made whenever players are forced to compete with other players. By that scale, merchants are the master skillers, having gone so far as to not even use any of the "imaginary skill" you folks put so much stock in, and make everybody else willingly work for them. This is the kind of thing that criticizes people who have high herblore and gives the game over to "more honest PKers" who only train a few skills (the fewer skill types, the better! says pures) and profit from the "honest skillers that don't do combat" who AFK while fishing and chat with their friends. Apparently training herblore (or being able to afford it) gives an unfair advantage in combat, but when combat gives 90 percent of all useful things circulating in the game, including herbs, and skillers are forced to pay ridiculous prices for combat drops and constantly have their wares devalued by further combat drops containing their produce, plus have diminishing returns over time due to lack of demand, it is entirely okay.

Your absolutely right. Player versus monster, skilling for fun and playing mini-games is all nothing. The only real part of the game is when you are attacking another player. PvP is nothing but small fry, scamming, manipulating, and insulting is the only real skill in Runescape! The stronger your attack on other players the better player you are.

 

That is the thing about Runescape; somebody mentioned earlier somewhere that they liked the game because they are free to do anything without being locked into one type of gameplay. This is true in more ways than you can imagine.

 

So why even bother complaining? Fight back! Merchants may work on a different set of rules than normal players, but those rules still exist, and if you break them, you will kill their joy as easily as they kill yours. I'm sure there are many people who are as fed up with merchants as there are greedy people. Organize them, find a way to take the merchants down, and destroy them like the slugs you compare them to.

Right on! The only way to fight evil is with more evil!

 

Or would that be too much work? Because when merchants do it, they're not putting any actual effort into it at all, are they? RIGHT?

What do you define as work?

 

By the way, every time I was agreeing with you, it was sarcasm.

 

Next time, don't press 'add reply' unless you have thought your post through.

[coffeesloth]

I just want to know one thing.

 

What the hell does he need all the money for, especially if he doesn't play the game much?

 

I just do not understand the whole "I have more imaginary coins than you, so that means I must be better than you." attitude. It's just too bad people are too lazy to earn their money, even in a game, where earning the money is part of the fun.

[Mecakoto]

I just want to know one thing.

 

What the hell does he need all the money for, especially if he doesn't play the game much?

 

I just do not understand the whole "I have more imaginary coins than you, so that means I must be better than you." attitude. It's just too bad people are too lazy to earn their money, even in a game, where earning the money is part of the fun.

 

Some of us don't have the ~6 hours to play Runescape. Fast money made while at work or college is fast money made while advancing one's placement in life.

[Mordendravid]

Meh. Nothing special in the interview.

 

What a lot of people who complain about the merch clans seem to forget is that you don't *have* to buy an item that is being merched... In fact, you don't *have* to use the GE fullstop. Sure it's convenient, but if you see something going up uncharacteristically fast or way above it's usual level don't buy it - simples.

 

If there is no demand from the "average joe" then there is no profit for the merch clans. There's practically nothing in RS that can't be collected/created or substituted if you haven't the levels or can't find someone to assist.

 

The reason that merch clans have any success is that they are able to act as a collective. If the rest of RS players acted in a similarly collective manner it would take all of about a week to put all merch clans out of business.

 

As an aside, pre-GE merchants (IMO) did at least provide a function, usually by collecting small quantities of items together and then selling large quantities at higher prices. Personally, back at that time I was more than happy to pay 40ea for 50k essence as opposed to buying in batches of 100 - 1,000 for 25ea..