Found a smoking mils interview

[Mordendravid]

Actually, just had a further thought regarding communities acting together collectively. *IF* someone were able to organise a large enough group of players willing to co-operate as a 'supply clan' then merchant clans could very quickly be put out of business.. Not only that but the 'supply clan' would profit in the process...

 

My theory is based on the fact (as I mentioned above) that there is very little in RS that can not be collected or created. As such, a 'supply clan' would work in response to merchant clans through identifying the next item to be merched and simply supplying en masse. E.g. If dragon bones were identified by the merch clan then the message goes out to the supply clan to collect and supply (sell) d bones at GE maximum until orders are no longer fulfilled, then drop to supply at GE mid etc.

 

Obviously it is a lot easier to buy in high volume than supply (since it's a lot quicker to click 'buy' on GE than go out killing dragons), but on the other hand, the "non merch" community is significantly bigger than the merch clans.

 

Further to the above, in order for this to really work, it would be necessary to really control the avalanche of supply. The reason for this is to counteract a merch clan taking advantage of massive supply by falsely identifying items with a view to artificially lowering the price. The best way of doing this easily would be for 'supply clan' members to sell only between GE Max and GE mid (thereby not lowering a price).

 

The benefits of such a clan would actually be surprisingly good, particularly for skillers:

1. Profit on items that are rising fast

2. Residual items from over supply could/should be kept for future merch attempts or used in skilling

3. Providing economic balance for the good of the game (should give a nice warm fuzzy feeling =)

 

So, any TIF'ers fancy the challenge?

[gspbeetle]

 

The one thing about most comments I don't understand is this: If it were that simple as most of you tell it is, why aren't there more people engaging in merchanting? The other thing: Why, if thìs in a virtual game is morally bankrupt, CEO's of rl companies making 250m per year are seen as 'great people'? Remember Madoff? Celebrated for a long, long time...

The fact that many CEOs and other top business leaders are considered "great people" is due to the fact that they're successful in what they do, so they're viewed as role models of a sort. Propaganda, no doubt, also has a hand in it, and this interview is only one more example of this.

 

*This isn't to say that all business leaders are corrupt, of course, as many have achieved what they have on merit alone, and this is important to remember.* The same principle doesn't apply to ingame manipulation clan leaders, however, as legitimate merchanters don't attempt to influence item prices directly.

You are going to tell me there is something real about an exec making 250m per year? It means about 5m per week or, with working 140hrs per week (4hrs sleep per day), about 36k per hour. There is no way someone actually earns that, it is robbing any company blind.

 

Psst, have you heard of a man named Warren Buffet? Heard of something called stocks?

Most hush funds do that and many large corporate invest in different kind of funds.

Even your bank is taking your money to mech. Not to mention governments and central banks.

I am not sure will people worship those cooperate/financial leaders, but they do become famous in one sense just for being rich and successfully manipulating the market.

 

 

 

This is what Jagex get for bringing out the GE. It's their fault and I hope merch clans either continue smashing the economy or Jagex remove trade limits and the GE.

 

Okay, I know you're upset, but don't go spouting nonsense. Merchants and merchanting clans existed long before the GE, and in my own opinion, their effects could be felt a lot tighter than what's going on now (World 2, merchants that refused to sell to you for eight hours, just plain annoying). Neither removing trade limits nor the GE would alleviate the problem. Nor would banning the clans themselves - nothing's stopping them from operating underground. Something's gotta be done about them, though.

 

Before the GE you had to actually obtain ingredients yourself, or luckily find them. The ge made it easy both for people to get items fast, and to manipulate their costs ( along with trade limits )

 

Removing the GE and trade limits WOULD help manipulation, but I agree not remove it. Because of trade limits players are forced to buy at certain prices as it's impossible not to, a factor I find most frustrating. This helps manipulation a HUGE deal as players will be forced to pay the inflated price, and clans can raise this price quite easily because of the GE.

 

Imagine trying to manipulate snape grass without the GE, you'd have to find the sellers, and attempt to buy them out. This just wouldn't happen, and didn't. At least not for nearly every single ingredient / product, which is what happens now.

 

Removing the GE, trade limits, bringing back old pking (what you kill is what you get), would both fix the problem, but make RWT easy again. Sadly Jagex now care more about their income ( they are currently 10th Richest youngins in England right? ) instead of making their players happier and attempting to manually ban RWTs. Old schoolers will remember the day when Paul would enter the world and ask us loyal players what we think a good update would be, and attempt to act upon it. Now, they attempt to bring out an update every week, half of which are rubbish.

 

Sorry I get off topic... a lot. Summary - removing GE and trade limits will not fix the problem entirely, but will help it. The question is, would you rather this which in turn would bring back epic RWTing.

 

Pretty much summarised the problem. :thumbsup:

[AlexRose]

Meh. Nothing special in the interview.

 

What a lot of people who complain about the merch clans seem to forget is that you don't *have* to buy an item that is being merched... In fact, you don't *have* to use the GE fullstop. Sure it's convenient, but if you see something going up uncharacteristically fast or way above it's usual level don't buy it - simples.

 

Your first assumption would be at least somewhat factual if the Grand Exchange prices were only relevant to Grand Exchange transactions. However, the prices set for the Grand Exchange also determine the prices for non- Grand Exchange transactions; thus, manipulation of the Grand Exchange pertains to transactions as a whole. Your second point is just plain arrogant; blatant manipulation of the Grand Exchange's flaws should not interfere with a person's ability to complete other tasks and goals in Runescape. If food suddenly skyrocketed in real life, would a practical solution be not to buy food anymore? No, because food is essential to everyday tasks. While manipulation in Runescape is not quite as dramatic as this example, the same principles apply.

 

 

 

If there is no demand from the "average joe" then there is no profit for the merch clans. There's practically nothing in RS that can't be collected/created or substituted if you haven't the levels or can't find someone to assist.

 

 

The reason that merch clans have any success is that they are able to act as a collective. If the rest of RS players acted in a similarly collective manner it would take all of about a week to put all merch clans out of business.

 

First of all, refrain from double negatives. It makes it a chore to read and understand your post.

 

While your solution would prevent merchant clans from creating a profit, it would also mean effectively shutting down all transactions in the Runescapian economy and would resort in a bartering system of sorts. So why should we be so inconvenienced simply to counteract a negative force that should not have even existed? Why should the entire player-base suffer the consequences for the benefit of a few?

 

 

 

As an aside, pre-GE merchants (IMO) did at least provide a function, usually by collecting small quantities of items together and then selling large quantities at higher prices. Personally, back at that time I was more than happy to pay 40ea for 50k essence as opposed to buying in batches of 100 - 1,000 for 25ea..

 

Agreed, but that's something completely different.

[Mordendravid]

Ooh, someone who wants to argue, fantastic...

 

Meh. Nothing special in the interview.

 

What a lot of people who complain about the merch clans seem to forget is that you don't *have* to buy an item that is being merched... In fact, you don't *have* to use the GE fullstop. Sure it's convenient, but if you see something going up uncharacteristically fast or way above it's usual level don't buy it - simples.

 

Your first assumption would be at least somewhat factual if the Grand Exchange prices were only relevant to Grand Exchange transactions. However, the prices set for the Grand Exchange also determine the prices for non- Grand Exchange transactions; thus, manipulation of the Grand Exchange pertains to transactions as a whole.

 

I maybe didn't phrase that very well, my point was don't buy the item at all (rather than simply don't buy from the GE).. If you want prayer pots, farm ranarrs, pick up the snape grass and mix the potion. You do have a choice because all the elements are available. If you can't get ranarr seeds, kill abby specs or druids etc. A prayer pot as an example has a value to each player individually, there's a point when it is more cost efficient to collect the ingredients and make it yourself.

 

 

Your second point is just plain arrogant; blatant manipulation of the Grand Exchange's flaws should not interfere with a person's ability to complete other tasks and goals in Runescape.

 

How was my point in anyway arrogant? The "blatant manipulation of the Grand Exchange's flaws" does not interfere with a person's ability to complete other tasks and goals, because, guess what, you *choose* to use it for convenience. It might very well impact the efficiency of that approach (e.g. collecting seconds as opposed to buying them, but hey, that's the *choice* you make).

 

If food suddenly skyrocketed in real life, would a practical solution be not to buy food anymore? No, because food is essential to everyday tasks. While manipulation in Runescape is not quite as dramatic as this example, the same principles apply.

 

I love it when people try and apply ridiculous examples from real life.. Yes parallels can be drawn in some cases but really, your example is just absurd. In real life, food has an inelastic demand, in other words, it is an essential, so you're correct, people wouldn't just stop buying food. However, in Real Life, it is also a lot more difficult for people to suddenly grow their own vegetables and raise their own livestock for food. Check this out though, since RS is a game, these options are happily available to you and thus if you don't want to pay 1.5k ea for shark you can catch and cook your own.

 

 

If there is no demand from the "average joe" then there is no profit for the merch clans. There's practically nothing in RS that can't be collected/created or substituted if you haven't the levels or can't find someone to assist.

 

 

The reason that merch clans have any success is that they are able to act as a collective. If the rest of RS players acted in a similarly collective manner it would take all of about a week to put all merch clans out of business.

 

First of all, refrain from double negatives. It makes it a chore to read and understand your post.

 

I agree it's probably not the most eloquent of sentences, but it can't be that hard to understand, as you seem to have managed it...

 

While your solution would prevent merchant clans from creating a profit, it would also mean effectively shutting down all transactions in the Runescapian economy and would resort in a bartering system of sorts. So why should we be so inconvenienced simply to counteract a negative force that should not have even existed? Why should the entire player-base suffer the consequences for the benefit of a few?

 

You seem to be missing the point. All transactions would not need to be shut down at all; players simply *choose* not to buy an item that is being actively manipulated by a clan. Yes I agree, that might be inconvenient, and yes, I also agree that in an ideal world such an inconvenience wouldn't exist, however by suffering through this inconvenience the "few" that you refer to do not benefit, therfore, in time it might be possible to expel this unwanted faction.

 

Players are already experiencing the consequences by paying 2 or 3 times more than the (non manipulated) market price for an item.

 

As an aside, pre-GE merchants (IMO) did at least provide a function, usually by collecting small quantities of items together and then selling large quantities at higher prices. Personally, back at that time I was more than happy to pay 40ea for 50k essence as opposed to buying in batches of 100 - 1,000 for 25ea..

 

Agreed, but that's something completely different.

 

Cool we agree :)

 

Edit: fixed some quote tags

[AlexRose]

Ooh, someone who wants to argue, fantastic...

 

You phrased that sentence as if that's not a good thing....

 

 

I maybe didn't phrase that very well, my point was don't buy the item at all (rather than simply don't buy from the GE).. If you want prayer pots, farm ranarrs, pick up the snape grass and mix the potion. You do have a choice because all the elements are available. If you can't get ranarr seeds, kill abby specs or druids etc. A prayer pot as an example has a value to each player individually, there's a point when it is more cost efficient to collect the ingredients and make it yourself.

 

Ah, all right then. Thank you for that clarification. Was that the point you were attempting to prove with the rest of your post? If so, I understand where you are basing your arguments off of, and I apologize for calling you arrogant.

 

However, my rhetorical question still stands. Why should the general Runescapian population suffer a loss in efficiency, and thus suffer, for the general profit of a few? Why should I be forced to spend the time and effort collecting secondary ingredients, when previously (before the manipulation) I could simply spend money on it in an efficient way? In other words, manipulative clans still negatively impact the Runescapian economy; yes, you can still procure the materials and eventually come up with the same product; yes, just because prices rise does not mean they are unprocurable; but it is at the cost of extra time and effort for the benefit of a few, which I believe is wrong.

 

[Will talk more later, I have to get back to class and "learn" the math I knew two years ago. >>]