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Genesis and The Big Bang

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Revelation 21

21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

 

Well guess we are all [bleep]ed.

Yeah I know people don't take all the bible literally but still, how many times can you ignore God killing the world or tons of people? So much picking and choosing.

 

Although there is some good morals and values in the bible, there is just so much crap and bad stuff and it far outweighs the good.

Just a random thought.

Yeah. I should clarify that I don't really agree with the methods used: It tells you that you should follow certain laws, but then it uses mental terrorism to back up such claims.

Surely if you just took one part of it, like, say the Ten Commandments of the Bible, and didn't consider the horror stories it uses to back them up, it would seem a bit better.

 

But do you really believe in that religion if you take out all the bad stuff? Which is close to all of the bible.

I don't really get how you can believe that religion if you need to pick and choose that much.

Please, prove your words to me. Prove to me that "most" of the Bible is crap. I find it really funny how you sit there bad mouthing the Bible yet you gladly take quotes from it. Revelations was a book written to scare the [cabbage] out of people. Its the only book that i might think you could gather "crap" from and this is not because God wants to force us to love Him. Instead this is a word from people telling us that without us loving Him we will be damned. And your theory of who goes to heaven and who goes to hell, or the way God chooses who may enter heaven is the theory of a fool, a coward, an the theory of someone that tries to know it all while in actual fact he knows nothing. You sir, are making a total fool of yourself with your idiocy.

 

 

God is good, God is just. I have said that many times now. He takes everything good and bad we have done when he judges us. Murderers and Rapists have their chance at heaven. There's this little thing called repenting. Its never too late, not even for you. You are dealing with a greater force than your mind can ever think of. You will never bask in glory until you bask in the glory of God. To be without religion is a fool's way of life. After all, do you think you were put on this earth simply to die? No! You were put on this earth as a test! A test of passion, love, kindness, respect, etc. Fail the test and you are damned. But if you do not fail this unfailable test then forever you can eat the sweetest fruit, drink the best wine, have all that you can desire for heaven is the city of honey and milk. Even though you deny God now, He still loves you. Sure, He is pained, but He does not give up hope.

 

Now i suggest that you stop your bashing of religions. If not out of respect for those who love God, then out of self respect. Because a man who must insult another for for his ways and beliefs is a man who shows doubt in his own. Do not mock my God because you are insecure about your lack of a God.

 

 

And as a sidenote: Jews and Muslims do not eat pork because they see it as an unholy animal. Jesus drove out demons from a girl into a herd of pigs (or something like that). That is why they do not eat pork. Also it has something to do with how the hoof is split. It has nothing to do with the fact of it spoiling in the desert.

 

first bolding: Would you like me to pull stuff out of the bible where god commits the act of genocide? or how about the condolence of beating slaves within an inch of their life so as not to kill them, but then as long as they don't die within a certain time-frame it is okay? What about the part of being able to keep other Jews as slaves, if the slave(Jew) had a child and wife during the time he was supposed to be a slave? What about being able to sell your daughter into slavery? Or what about when god struck down the tower of Babel and then made it so that there were 1000s of languages? What about condoning the killing of innocent men, women and children and also the raping and pillaging of said company? Do I need to go on? The god of the "bible" is vindictive, spiteful, hateful, unmerciful and kills at the drop of even the slightest bit of disobedience and no the "New Testament" does not nullify the "Old Testament" as that would take the pillars out from under from the "New Testament".

 

Second & third bolding: What you are saying there is that he is not allowed to postulate as to how this god "supposedly" determines the fate of anyone and everyone within our universe. In addition to that, not only are you saying that he is not allowed to postulate on that matter, but he is also not allowed to question the bible, or church doctrine, at all. Also, by calling him "fool", "coward", and other names like that only proves that you do not know how to address an argument where a valid question was asked. Going into the third bolded part now. Not only that, but you call not "believing" in a "god" that is supposedly omnipotent, omnipresent, omnibenevolent, and among other things, a "fool's way of life", especially when there is no supporting evidence outside of said source called the "bible"; this is the very definition of close-mindedness that you are accusing atheists of(you might not have actually said, but it was implied).

 

fourth & fifth bolding: You sir are a hypocrite.

 

final bolding: Someone didn't read the link I posted before that, which did make mention of the "unholy" part. Also, it does have something to do with the fact that meat spoils extremely quick in desert conditions. Why else would you find that, predating refrigeration, nearly "all" meat was smoked in the desert?

I suggest you quote, directly out of the Bible( Book name and verse) where exactly you got your information from. I can assure you that you won't find anything to back up what you have said in the first part. You will however find that God struck down the tower, but this was after multiple warnings have been given.

And to question the Bible shows lack of faith and trust in God. Do you question your mother's love for you? No, you trust that she means it when she says it. It is very much the same when God tells you he loves you (although God does it in other forms).

 

And no i admit i did not read the link you posted. I really have no intrest in it to be quite honest. Although i did give it a quick glance and i saw something about it saying that Christians do not eat pork? This is false.

 

But please, do send me those quotes. I am dying to see what rubbish you come up with next.

 

Also, i would really much like it if someone could point me in the direction of a book/video or something that will prove to me that evolution is a fact. And when i say this i mean i want a description from the actuall Big Bang to the first cell and then each and every cell after that untill Human. Please and thank you.


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Revelation 21

21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

 

Well guess we are all [bleep]ed.

Yeah I know people don't take all the bible literally but still, how many times can you ignore God killing the world or tons of people? So much picking and choosing.

 

Although there is some good morals and values in the bible, there is just so much crap and bad stuff and it far outweighs the good.

Just a random thought.

Yeah. I should clarify that I don't really agree with the methods used: It tells you that you should follow certain laws, but then it uses mental terrorism to back up such claims.

Surely if you just took one part of it, like, say the Ten Commandments of the Bible, and didn't consider the horror stories it uses to back them up, it would seem a bit better.

 

But do you really believe in that religion if you take out all the bad stuff? Which is close to all of the bible.

I don't really get how you can believe that religion if you need to pick and choose that much.

Please, prove your words to me. Prove to me that "most" of the Bible is crap. I find it really funny how you sit there bad mouthing the Bible yet you gladly take quotes from it. Revelations was a book written to scare the [cabbage] out of people. Its the only book that i might think you could gather "crap" from and this is not because God wants to force us to love Him. Instead this is a word from people telling us that without us loving Him we will be damned. And your theory of who goes to heaven and who goes to hell, or the way God chooses who may enter heaven is the theory of a fool, a coward, an the theory of someone that tries to know it all while in actual fact he knows nothing. You sir, are making a total fool of yourself with your idiocy.

 

 

God is good, God is just. I have said that many times now. He takes everything good and bad we have done when he judges us. Murderers and Rapists have their chance at heaven. There's this little thing called repenting. Its never too late, not even for you. You are dealing with a greater force than your mind can ever think of. You will never bask in glory until you bask in the glory of God. To be without religion is a fool's way of life. After all, do you think you were put on this earth simply to die? No! You were put on this earth as a test! A test of passion, love, kindness, respect, etc. Fail the test and you are damned. But if you do not fail this unfailable test then forever you can eat the sweetest fruit, drink the best wine, have all that you can desire for heaven is the city of honey and milk. Even though you deny God now, He still loves you. Sure, He is pained, but He does not give up hope.

 

Now i suggest that you stop your bashing of religions. If not out of respect for those who love God, then out of self respect. Because a man who must insult another for for his ways and beliefs is a man who shows doubt in his own. Do not mock my God because you are insecure about your lack of a God.

 

 

And as a sidenote: Jews and Muslims do not eat pork because they see it as an unholy animal. Jesus drove out demons from a girl into a herd of pigs (or something like that). That is why they do not eat pork. Also it has something to do with how the hoof is split. It has nothing to do with the fact of it spoiling in the desert.

 

first bolding: Would you like me to pull stuff out of the bible where god commits the act of genocide? or how about the condolence of beating slaves within an inch of their life so as not to kill them, but then as long as they don't die within a certain time-frame it is okay? What about the part of being able to keep other Jews as slaves, if the slave(Jew) had a child and wife during the time he was supposed to be a slave? What about being able to sell your daughter into slavery? Or what about when god struck down the tower of Babel and then made it so that there were 1000s of languages? What about condoning the killing of innocent men, women and children and also the raping and pillaging of said company? Do I need to go on? The god of the "bible" is vindictive, spiteful, hateful, unmerciful and kills at the drop of even the slightest bit of disobedience and no the "New Testament" does not nullify the "Old Testament" as that would take the pillars out from under from the "New Testament".

 

Second & third bolding: What you are saying there is that he is not allowed to postulate as to how this god "supposedly" determines the fate of anyone and everyone within our universe. In addition to that, not only are you saying that he is not allowed to postulate on that matter, but he is also not allowed to question the bible, or church doctrine, at all. Also, by calling him "fool", "coward", and other names like that only proves that you do not know how to address an argument where a valid question was asked. Going into the third bolded part now. Not only that, but you call not "believing" in a "god" that is supposedly omnipotent, omnipresent, omnibenevolent, and among other things, a "fool's way of life", especially when there is no supporting evidence outside of said source called the "bible"; this is the very definition of close-mindedness that you are accusing atheists of(you might not have actually said, but it was implied).

 

fourth & fifth bolding: You sir are a hypocrite.

 

final bolding: Someone didn't read the link I posted before that, which did make mention of the "unholy" part. Also, it does have something to do with the fact that meat spoils extremely quick in desert conditions. Why else would you find that, predating refrigeration, nearly "all" meat was smoked in the desert?

I suggest you quote, directly out of the Bible( Book name and verse) where exactly you got your information from. I can assure you that you won't find anything to back up what you have said in the first part. You will however find that God struck down the tower, but this was after multiple warnings have been given.

And to question the Bible shows lack of faith and trust in God. Do you question your mother's love for you? No, you trust that she means it when she says it. It is very much the same when God tells you he loves you (although God does it in other forms).

 

And no i admit i did not read the link you posted. I really have no intrest in it to be quite honest. Although i did give it a quick glance and i saw something about it saying that Christians do not eat pork? This is false.

 

But please, do send me those quotes. I am dying to see what rubbish you come up with next.

 

Also, i would really much like it if someone could point me in the direction of a book/video or something that will prove to me that evolution is a fact. And when i say this i mean i want a description from the actuall Big Bang to the first cell and then each and every cell after that untill Human. Please and thank you.

[/hide]

 

Remember, you signed your death warrant here.

 

[hide]Genocide

Genesis 6:1- 9:17 - The whole Noah debacle, which is in effect god committing global genocide for the entirety of the Earth and not just humans.

Numbers 31:7-18

Zechariah 14:1-2

 

Slavery

Exodus 21:1-4

Exodus 21:7

Exodus 21:8

Exodus 20:17

Deuteronomy 5:21

Deuteronomy 15:12-18

Deuteronomy 21:10-14

Deuteronomy 20:14

Deuteronomy 23:15-16

Leviticus 19:20-22

Leviticus 25:39

Leviticus 25:44-46

Leviticus 25:48-53

Numbers 31:28-47

Samuel 9:10

Zechariah 14:1-2

 

Rape

Genesis 16:1-2

Genesis 30:3-4

Genesis 30:9-10

Deuteronomy 21:10-14

Deuteronomy 22:23-24

Numbers 31:7-18

Zechariah 14:1-2

 

War

Judges 5:30

Zechariah 14:1-2[/hide]

 

We haven't even started on the New Testament yet.

*All verses are from the King James Version, which I am under the assumption that you are referring to.

 

These verses cannot be explained away as they are in there black and white.

 

First bolding: Christians are still bound by the "Old Testament" as well as the "New Testament" so them not supposed to be eating pork is correct on a technicality.

 

Second Bolding: Asking for that is extremely unreasonable as at our current technology level it cannot be done in its entirety(computers simply aren't powerful enough yet). So...in effect you want a completed tree of life up to the point, I'm also assuming you want it for other worlds too, where humans began appearing.

 

There are two main reasons for this.

 

1. Time cannot be wound back based upon the laws of physics in this universe.

2. Early fossils are exceedingly rare, trilobites are an exception, and for most we only have imprints of what once remained.

 

At this point Gorgoroth, based on your grammar suddenly improving, I am under a hunch that you...actually this will get through to you much better.

 

This is a classroom analogy

[hide]A teacher is trying to teach a classroom full of kids the multiplication table and the teacher decides to use flash cards. On the day it begins the teacher holds up a flash card that says "2 x 3" and one of the children reply with the answer of 8, saying that the "3" is a "4". The teacher tells the child that the answer is wrong and tells the child that the number "3" is not a "4". The child then goes on to say that she heard this from another child's mother whom said it was a "4" and then proceeds to say that the teacher is calling her friends mother a liar. The teacher then proceeds to get a larger flash card with the same problem and then shows it to the class, but this time the child looks away, in effect this causes all the other children to look away as well, as well as cover their eyes while saying, "it's a trick, it must be a trick don't look at the cards everyone". [/hide]

 

Can you guess what this analogy has in common with you Gorgoroth?


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I don't like to get into individual bible verses if I can help it, you get into all kinds of nit-picking that doesn't really lead anywhere.

 

Gorgoroth: what proof do you have that your god exists?


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Also, i would really much like it if someone could point me in the direction of a book/video or something that will prove to me that evolution is a fact. And when i say this i mean i want a description from the actuall Big Bang to the first cell and then each and every cell after that untill Human. Please and thank you.

I find it kind of weird how you want a detailed explanation of how exactly evolution works even though you have already been provided with lots of information and evidence that proves evolution is at least very plausible considering the facts we have at the moment, but choose to believe in a simple "from the dust of the ground... and man became a living being." Yes, I did quote that from wikipedia and it's a simplified version of what genesis actually says, but the meaning should still be the same.


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Also, i would really much like it if someone could point me in the direction of a book/video or something that will prove to me that evolution is a fact. And when i say this i mean i want a description from the actuall Big Bang to the first cell and then each and every cell after that untill Human. Please and thank you.

 

Wow, complicated. Good i like complicated stuff :thumbup:

 

Now, this first video here shows not only A LOT of evidence for Evolution, but lists transitional fossils from primitive Jawless Fish to Humans:

[hide]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nj587d5ies[/hide]

 

Now, the history of the Universe, from Big Bang to us:

 

Big Bang to Solar System:

[hide] The Big Bang was an expansion of the Universe from a singularity that happened 15 bilhon years ago. We know it happened, because all predictions made on Big Bang Theory ( galaxies moving away from the same point, abundance of basic chemicals, background radiation) are right.

 

In the beggining, the Universe was very hot, but as it expanded it started to cool down. The matter in that time used to be just loose protons, neutrons and electrons flying around, and once the Universe cooled, they joined togheter making Hydrogen and Helium. atoms. At that time, over 90% of all matter was HYdrogen, and the rest Helium.

Gravity pulled Hydrogen and Helium togheter to form gigantic clouds. Someone who knows how stars form would know what happens next. Stars form when Hydrogen starts "fusion", and fusion only starts in extreme conditions. Inside the clouds, there was an enourmous heat and pressure, and the clouds were always spinning faster and faster, until Hydrogen entered fusion.

 

"Fusion" is when two atoms fuse to form a heavier atom of another element, and releasing enourmous heat and energy in the proccess. When 2 atoms fuse in the cloud, the heat they release make closer atoms fuse, and the chain reactions makes the whole cloud become a star.

The first stars formed a few milhons of years after Big Bang. Now, stars are the "element" factories in the universe. Fusion creates new heavier elements, and the Hydrogen fusion of the stars started creating all elements of the Periodic Table, Oxygen, Carbon, Iron, Sulphur, all known elements started being made inside the Stars. When the Hydrogen of the star ends, it collapses and blow up, throwing all theese elements into space, and the shockwave of the explosion makes near HYdrogen clouds spin faster, accelerating the procces of making new stars.

Theese new elements started making everything we know: Metals made rocks, that formed asterois, comets and planets, Oxygen and Hydrogen made water, Carbon made organic molecules... Anyone with basic Chemistry knowledge knows how all theese elements make everything around us.

 

10 bilhon years after the Big Bang, our Solar System first formed out of a Hydrogen cloud and heavier elements.[/hide]

 

Solar System to first forms of life:

 

[hide]Our solar System formed just likeany other star and planets: A hydrogen cloud made a star, and the heavier elements created the planets. Our Sun formed 10 bilhion years after the Big Bang and formation of the first stars, so there was a lot of theese new elements. Our Solar System is very rich in both Water and Organic Molecules ( both very common in the Universe), and this is what would make life first appear.

 

This video explains how life (possibly) first formed out of theese Organic Molecules:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6QYDdgP9eg[/hide]

 

Evolution of Early life:

[hide] This series of videos explain how the Genetic Code, Meiosis ( "primitive sex"), "modern" sexual reproduction and the brain first formed after that unicelular vesicle formed in the primitive Earth. I'll have to leave them in link form, because there is a limit on how many media files we can put -.-

 

Note that the creator of the videos also had a video on how multicelular life first formed, but he had to remove it, because it contained the results of a scientists research that were still unpublished. He is going to re-upload the video soon whitout theese unpublished results, though.

Anyway, it is proven possible that unicelular life can form multicelular:

There was an algae that in response to predation was OBSERVED to form multicelular life.

[/hide]

 

So, after multicelular life with primitive brains, sexual reproduction and a genetic code first formed, there is no limits to where Evolution can lead it to, especially since all of this formed Milhons, if not Bilhons of years ago. It would be a matter of time until creatures as complex as us would form.

 

Since the first video i showed has a list of transitional species between primitive jawless fish and us, i don't think i need to explain anything more.

 

 

I'll also link you to the first video of the "Made Easy" series of the Youtube user potholer54, that explains the History of the Universe from Big Bang to us:

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You will never bask in glory until you bask in the glory of God. To be without religion is a fool's way of life.

...

Now i suggest that you stop your bashing of religions.

Respect is a two-way street.


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Camera guy: Whoa, haha, are you okay dude?

Matt: You want anything funny that happens, don't you?

Camera guy: still laughing

Matt: You want the funny shit that happens here and there, you think it comes out of your [bleep]ing [wagon] pushes garbage can down, don't you? You think it's funny? It comes out of here! running towards Camera guy

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Matt: FUNNY ISN'T REAL! FUNNY ISN'T REAL!

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Alright. I a appalled by all of you. After i have contradicted myself....50 times?, made stupid comments, remaks and statements you still continue to believe that i am acutally serious in what i was saying? I have read through the bible twice in my life (yes, from the first page to the last), i have been to churches and camps and functions. With each day my doubt grew. "And as I departed so I shall return for all the world to see." Well Jesus has to be one pretty big mother [bleep]er if he expects hundreds of countries, billions of people to see him, at exactly the same time. The Bible has more inconsistansies and more flaws than my spelling and grammar, and that alone tells me that something is off. I am 19 years of age. I have been able to think logic about "god" for atleast 7 of those years. The thought of a higher being, at this stage of my life, does not really concern me. When reading a Bible i feel quite disgusted by the thought that the "god" that created me only did so for his own glory. I am merely an item used for his pleasure. I am not allowed to indulge, have sex, go wild without constant fear that my socalled maker will smite me for my deeds. Living with such thoughts can be very tiring and puts one on an enormous guilt trip. I'm not saying that the thought of a higher being is totally insane. I am sure there has to be some kind of higher power to keep the balance and peace. What i am saying is that if there was such a god that i don't think i want anything to do with it. I feel that living my life for someone else is wasting my life all together. I do however not totally agree with evolution either. The thought that we are all the result of 1 cell is still something i cannot wrap my mind around. Things such as the laws of gravity still does not make sense to me. The fact that we might be the only living life form (or rather the only planet with life) still confuses me. Maybe i am just at the stage of my life where i am able to think logic about both sides and also have my doubts about both. Now i am not saying that we just all magically apeared on earth but what i am saying is that i don't really care about how i came to be. Having to worry about that every day is not something i want to do. I would much rather close my eyes to religion and to the big bang and just accept that i am here now and one day i wont be, so lets have a [bleep]ing party.

 

I do not think religion is bad thing though. It has givin many people hope, false hope perhaps, but hope none the less. It has proven to be an amazing bond between nations. But on the other hand it has also proven to be the peril of nations. Look at the middle east if you want your example.

 

Now all of the comments i have made (from the 1st to the last) will seem like a total troll fest. I did have a reason for doing so. I tried proving a point that although the one has more evidence to be true than the other, the latter has more followers making it an oftem more believable story. And the fact that they have not yet been able to give a complete family tree from the first to the last cell will always confuse many, myself included.

 

But like i said. I do not believe the Big Bang anymore than i do any religion. If there was a god out there, why be so scared to make himself visable again? Would this not be easier than trying to fight an unwinable battle?

 

I do thank you all for replying on each and every one of my posts. Although no one has made me change my state of mind i think that i have learned a great deal about both religion and the big bang.

As for now i think the best way for me to look at it is just to live each day like I want to. If a higher power doesnt like it i ask him to make it known.

 

Thank you.

~Slaytanicc~


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I do however not totally agree with evolution either. The thought that we are all the result of 1 cell is still something i cannot wrap my mind around.

 

Have you watched the videos i posted in response to you? Or even read my response at all ( please do read it, took some time to write that :evil: )?

Abiogenesis is proven possible, and it is also proven possible that this "1 cell" can form Multicellular beings with sexual reproduction ( which accelerates Evolution, a lot), complex genetic code and a primitive brain.

And all of thoose formed over 2 bilhon years ago. Bilhons, if not trilhons of other generations made theese things more and more complex in theese 2 bilhon years of Evolution.

 

The idea of everything being the result of a simple cell evolving is pretty wierd, but the experiments show it is possible.

 

 

 

Good to see that you are a rational human being though :thumbup:

Yay for Agnostics.

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Yay for Existential Nihilism.

 

I must say, Gorgoroth, that actually does make a lot of sense.


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I do however not totally agree with evolution either. The thought that we are all the result of 1 cell is still something i cannot wrap my mind around.

 

Have you watched the videos i posted in response to you? Or even read my response at all ( please do read it, took some time to write that :evil: )?

Abiogenesis is proven possible, and it is also proven possible that this "1 cell" can form Multicellular beings with sexual reproduction ( which accelerates Evolution, a lot), complex genetic code and a primitive brain.

And all of thoose formed over 2 bilhon years ago. Bilhons, if not trilhons of other generations made theese things more and more complex in theese 2 bilhon years of Evolution.

 

The idea of everything being the result of a simple cell evolving is pretty wierd, but the experiments show it is possible.

 

 

 

Good to see that you are a rational human being though :thumbup:

Yay for Agnostics.

 

 

Believing in the same thing you do; does not make you a rational human being.


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I must admit that i have not yet watched the videos. I just haven't really had the time, but i will watch them for certain. And also Saru, i think the reason for him calling me rational is not entirely for thinking the way he does, bit rather for thinking like an open-minded person. For thinking logical. I still say though that i will not fully believe in evolution (no matter what scietific proof is provided) untill a full tree of the evolution proccess is shown to me. I think only then will i be able to totally disregard religion.


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I do however not totally agree with evolution either. The thought that we are all the result of 1 cell is still something i cannot wrap my mind around.

 

Have you watched the videos i posted in response to you? Or even read my response at all ( please do read it, took some time to write that :evil: )?

Abiogenesis is proven possible, and it is also proven possible that this "1 cell" can form Multicellular beings with sexual reproduction ( which accelerates Evolution, a lot), complex genetic code and a primitive brain.

And all of thoose formed over 2 bilhon years ago. Bilhons, if not trilhons of other generations made theese things more and more complex in theese 2 bilhon years of Evolution.

 

The idea of everything being the result of a simple cell evolving is pretty wierd, but the experiments show it is possible.

 

 

 

Good to see that you are a rational human being though :thumbup:

Yay for Agnostics.

 

 

Believing in the same thing you do; does not make you a rational human being.

 

 

He doesn't believe the same thing i do -.-

 

BUT, he was able of reading the full Bible ( something almost no Christians do theese days -.-), question his beliefs, and actually think about it. Doubting stuff, researching about it, and coming to a conclusion.

 

EDIT: And has he already said, he was open minded. That is something i value A LOT, since no one seems to be capable of admitting they might be wrong or considering other hipothesis for once.

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I know this is "uncalled for" and not really pertinent, but I hate people who think that if you're religious, then you're automatically illogical; irrational; schizophrenic, or gullible. Ugh. Hah. I know someone's gonna quote this "if it's uncalled for why post it"


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I know this is "uncalled for" and not really pertinent, but I hate people who think that if you're religious, then you're automatically illogical; irrational; schizophrenic, or gullible. Ugh. Hah. I know someone's gonna quote this "if it's uncalled for why post it"

Yeah i must say i agree 100% with this. Its just because religios people have a much different way of thinking.


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Guest Mrmegakirby

I know this is "uncalled for" and not really pertinent, but I hate people who think that if you're religious, then you're automatically illogical; irrational; schizophrenic, or gullible. Ugh. Hah. I know someone's gonna quote this "if it's uncalled for why post it"

Yeah i must say i agree 100% with this. Its just because religios people have a much different way of thinking.

 

Sometimes, people are like that when their religous. If they can back up what they believe in, then they wouldn't be. I'm saying that anyone here is or isn't, just that some people really are.

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Can we apply the "gate theory" here?

First you take the lesser drugs, then you move onto the harder stuff and at some point you are a complete drug addict.

 

Same thing with rational thinking

First someone teaches you logic, you learn implication, falsification, burden of proof etc etc. Eventually you use logic in everything you do in your life, and find yourself being miserable anyways. You shouldn't have taken the red pill, you should've said "no" when they tried to teach you logic the first time. You could've been happier if you hadn't needed to know so much about the world.

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And I'll return the metaphor to you. As George Shaw said: "The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality."

 

It's truly comforting to believe in an afterlife, but comfort alone doesn't justify a belief.


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Can we apply the "gate theory" here?

First you take the lesser drugs, then you move onto the harder stuff and at some point you are a complete drug addict.

 

Same thing with rational thinking

First someone teaches you logic, you learn implication, falsification, burden of proof etc etc. Eventually you use logic in everything you do in your life, and find yourself being miserable anyways. You shouldn't have taken the red pill, you should've said "no" when they tried to teach you logic the first time. You could've been happier if you hadn't needed to know so much about the world.

You...you just said that everything would be better if we were wholly ignorant of our surroundings. And compared knowledge to hard drugs.


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Can we apply the "gate theory" here?

First you take the lesser drugs, then you move onto the harder stuff and at some point you are a complete drug addict.

 

Same thing with rational thinking

First someone teaches you logic, you learn implication, falsification, burden of proof etc etc. Eventually you use logic in everything you do in your life, and find yourself being miserable anyways. You shouldn't have taken the red pill, you should've said "no" when they tried to teach you logic the first time. You could've been happier if you hadn't needed to know so much about the world.

I can eat pork, I'm pretty happy about that. It tastes good. Also, I can go have sex if I want to, and I'm not about to get married. That's also pretty cool...

The list goes on. Religion isn't all pros and no cons. I'm happy I'm not living a lie, and I'm definitely not miserable.


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Can we apply the "gate theory" here?

First you take the lesser drugs, then you move onto the harder stuff and at some point you are a complete drug addict.

 

Same thing with rational thinking

First someone teaches you logic, you learn implication, falsification, burden of proof etc etc. Eventually you use logic in everything you do in your life, and find yourself being miserable anyways. You shouldn't have taken the red pill, you should've said "no" when they tried to teach you logic the first time. You could've been happier if you hadn't needed to know so much about the world.

You...you just said that everything would be better if we were wholly ignorant of our surroundings. And compared knowledge to hard drugs.

I'm not sure that your assessment of his statements is spot-on, but he speaks the truth. Ignorance is bliss. And I think I'd rather not have known that bacon or sausage may give me tapeworms even if it is thoroughly cooked...


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Can we apply the "gate theory" here?

First you take the lesser drugs, then you move onto the harder stuff and at some point you are a complete drug addict.

 

Same thing with rational thinking

First someone teaches you logic, you learn implication, falsification, burden of proof etc etc. Eventually you use logic in everything you do in your life, and find yourself being miserable anyways. You shouldn't have taken the red pill, you should've said "no" when they tried to teach you logic the first time. You could've been happier if you hadn't needed to know so much about the world.

You...you just said that everything would be better if we were wholly ignorant of our surroundings. And compared knowledge to hard drugs.

Just taking new perspectives and being openminded here!

Not saying you should try it once, who knows where this gate leads me.

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The scientist- the rational thinker- questions his beliefs. It doesn't matter so much where the questioning leads the rational thinker, so much as it does that it is this questioning that leands them there. I know a number of physisicts who believe in a God of some sort (strangly doesn't happen as much with biologists and chemists).

 

I am athiest. I am open to the possiblity that there may be a diety or religion out there which I could accept, but havn't found one yet. I would also accept belief in pink unicorns if evidence were provided that they are real- but I don't call myself agnostic in either case.

 

A lot of religious people are pleasant enough, and don't pose much of a problem- I wouldn't want to convince them to change their mindset because they seem quite happy with it. The ones who I don't see as friendly are those who feel is it their duty to convert me, or pick a single phrase out of an entire book as their mission in this world ("I need to stop gay marriage because God says something that includes both men AND women blah blah blah").

 

One quote I've seen in another forum...

 

"I contend that we are both athiests, and that I simply believe in one less God than you do. If you were to look at the reasoning for not believing in all the other Gods, you would understand why I don't believe in yours."

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People forget genensis has been changed more times there anyone would ever know.

Within the first 2 pages you can see this.

[spoiler=Wall of text (1st 2 pages)]Genesis, Chapter 1

001: In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

002: And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

003: And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

004: And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

005: And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

006: And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.

007: And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.

008: And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

009: And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.

010: And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.

011: And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.

012: And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

013: And the evening and the morning were the third day.

014: And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

015: And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.

016: And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

017: And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,

018: And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.

019: And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

020: And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.

021: And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

022: And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.

023: And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.

024: And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.

025: And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

026: And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

027: So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

028: And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

029: And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.

030: And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.

031: And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

Genesis, Chapter 2

001: Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.

002: And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.

003: And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

004: These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,

005: And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.

006: But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.

007: And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

008: And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.

009: And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

010: And a river went out of Eden to water the garden; and from thence it was parted, and became into four heads.

011: The name of the first is Pison: that is it which compasseth the whole land of Havilah, where there is gold;

012: And the gold of that land is good: there is bdellium and the onyx stone.

013: And the name of the second river is Gihon: the same is it that compasseth the whole land of Ethiopia.

014: And the name of the third river is Hiddekel: that is it which goeth toward the east of Assyria. And the fourth river is Euphrates.

015: And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.

016: And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

017: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

018: And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.

019: And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.

020: And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.

021: And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;

022: And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.

023: And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.

024: Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

025: And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.

 

It goes

man+woman

man

man+woman

 

Anyone whose read up on why its because they removed a big section about Adams first wife (yes there was a woman before Eve).

Similar to a lot of other things which have been changed over time and modified.

 

People should never believe every little thing they read is true. I wouldn't surprise me if any common knowledge isn't found to be false later on.

 

The best response I ever got about this subject (big bang and god or god at all) was;

Say everything around us now was created from 2 particles colliding, how did those 2 particles come to be?

 

I'm atheist, but the above sentence/question is enough to make an atheist think. If science has taught us you can't create something from nothing.


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Say everything around us now was created from 2 particles colliding, how did those 2 particles come to be?

 

Who the hell said Big Bang theory talks about particles colliding? Big Bang Theory shows that the Universe expanded from a singularity 15 bilhon years ago.

 

Scientists don't know what caused it, but they are trying to find out though.

 

I heard about String-Theory / M-Theory talking about our Universe ( and possible other Universes) being the result of the shock of P-Brane,

but String Theory isn't proven ( Hell, String Theory is just a mathematical model that makes accurate mathematical predictions and wierd untested non-mathematical predictions), and i don't knowmuch about it, so i'm not gonna go in detail about it.

 

 

And i'm not even sure if there is a "nothing" in Science. I heard that there are particles that come out of nothing and dissapear right after, coming and dissapearing all the time ( i don't know much about this though, anyone can confirm this pl0x?), not to mention how 96% of our Universe ( what we used to think was "Nothing") is now known to be made of Dark Matter and Dark Energy ( and we have no idea what the hell that is...).

So, i don't know if Science taught us you can't create something from nothing, not only because particles seem to come from nothing all the time, but because i don't even know if there is a "Nothing" at all :blink:

 

Aargh, Physics make my head hurts :-?

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