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RWT - Give Up Jagex

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Hi,

since Jagex have started taking drastic actions to reduce/eliminate RWT, they have so far made almost no difference to the amount of money that is sold.

 

The reason i made this thread is to hear some of your opinions.

 

Do you guys think that all of these PVP degrading methods to removing RWT from the game are worth while, considering that people can simply RWT via trade or gold farming?

 

 

Personally i feel that Jagex should stop focusing on the trading itself, but more on the source of income for the traders. By this i mean destroy bots. If people can't bot, most of the money that is being sold through RWT is coming from bots. One trend is "suicide botting". This is where people will make accounts, bot as much as possible and make as much profit as possible and sell the gold or account before being banned. People can do this with several accounts at a time.

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Hi,

since Jagex have started taking drastic actions to reduce/eliminate RWT, they have so far made almost no difference to the amount of money that is sold.

 

The reason i made this thread is to hear some of your opinions.

 

Do you guys think that all of these PVP degrading methods to removing RWT from the game are worth while, considering that people can simply RWT via trade or gold farming?

 

 

Personally i feel that Jagex should stop focusing on the trading itself, but more on the source of income for the traders. By this i mean destroy bots. If people can't bot, most of the money that is being sold through RWT is coming from bots. One trend is "suicide botting". This is where people will make accounts, bot as much as possible and make as much profit as possible and sell the gold or account before being banned. People can do this with several accounts at a time.

 

Money can not be sold anymore, the only ways to do so that come to my mind right now are either making RWTers buy someone's junk or that you give out your account so RWTers can make money on it


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Hi,

since Jagex have started taking drastic actions to reduce/eliminate RWT, they have so far made almost no difference to the amount of money that is sold.

 

The reason i made this thread is to hear some of your opinions.

 

Do you guys think that all of these PVP degrading methods to removing RWT from the game are worth while, considering that people can simply RWT via trade or gold farming?

 

 

Personally i feel that Jagex should stop focusing on the trading itself, but more on the source of income for the traders. By this i mean destroy bots. If people can't bot, most of the money that is being sold through RWT is coming from bots. One trend is "suicide botting". This is where people will make accounts, bot as much as possible and make as much profit as possible and sell the gold or account before being banned. People can do this with several accounts at a time.

 

Money can not be sold anymore, the only ways to do so that come to my mind right now are either making RWTers buy someone's junk or that you give out your account so RWTers can make money on it

Not true. I know of several ways to transfer gold from account to account.

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Hi,

since Jagex have started taking drastic actions to reduce/eliminate RWT, they have so far made almost no difference to the amount of money that is sold.

 

The reason i made this thread is to hear some of your opinions.

 

Do you guys think that all of these PVP degrading methods to removing RWT from the game are worth while, considering that people can simply RWT via trade or gold farming?

 

 

Personally i feel that Jagex should stop focusing on the trading itself, but more on the source of income for the traders. By this i mean destroy bots. If people can't bot, most of the money that is being sold through RWT is coming from bots. One trend is "suicide botting". This is where people will make accounts, bot as much as possible and make as much profit as possible and sell the gold or account before being banned. People can do this with several accounts at a time.

 

Money can not be sold anymore, the only ways to do so that come to my mind right now are either making RWTers buy someone's junk or that you give out your account so RWTers can make money on it

Not true. I know of several ways to transfer gold from account to account.

 

Okay, go ahead and post them :roll:


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Then to combat RWT yourself you should use your head and report the methods...

 

Also, this changing the PVP system isn't to combat RWT but moreso just 76k'ing in general, abusing the PVP system to profit in such a pathetic way.


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Jagex only care about the RWT that gets them swamped with fraudulent credit card payments AKA irl companies dabbling in organised crime. some lone bozo selling gp to lil Timmy from his flat while paying his membership legitimately is a pretty low priority.

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Since you said you knew...

 

Then to combat RWT yourself you should use your head and report the methods...

 

Carl said it better than I could. Kudos.

 

RWT is a problem that may never go away, but if you look back, the whole point wasn't to completely stomp out RWT - it was to make substantially less practical. For those cheats that still exist out there, it's actually a lot less practical for them to go around and move gold from one account to another.

 

Look back to the old days, the days of so-called "free trade". When it was unregulated, RWT was actually very, very easy to accomplish. Now, with trade limits, pins, no-dropped items in the Wilderness/PvP worlds, and gravestones, it's actually ten times harder to conceivably RWT. The only way it happens now is if someone trades their account to a gold-seller, and lets them power-level/power-farm/power-whatever, and 9 times out of 10, the average RS player wouldn't give their password/pin out to someone. The final nail in the coffin, I'd say, is the Jagex Security Keychain - if it goes through (which I hope it does), this would make social engineering and account trading virtually impossible, save for the occasion that someone could lose the device, have the device stolen, etc. Either way, it's one more barrier in between a would-be gold farmer.

 

I'd say that the fight against RWT has helped a lot of us with our game. Admittedly, things will never be the same before the GE and the limits landed, but we can either get used to this, or accept that a RWT-infested game would mean that RS wouldn't have made it this far.

 

[besides, I don't want to play in a game with cheaters. That kind of player shouldn't even be allowed to touch a computer.]


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Jagex only care about the RWT that gets them swamped with fraudulent credit card payments AKA irl companies dabbling in organised crime. some lone bozo selling gp to lil Timmy from his flat while paying his membership legitimately is a pretty low priority.

 

This is true. More concern with real life issues than the state of the game.


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Hi,

since Jagex have started taking drastic actions to reduce/eliminate RWT, they have so far made almost no difference to the amount of money that is sold.

 

Stopped reading there and had the erge put a big stamp across your forehead saying STUPID.

 

Using logic, obviously Jagex did all this due to the credit card issue. If it didnt work. They would of either a) Shutdown or B ) Put in more restrictions. They damn near ruined the game so I dont think they would of had a problem with more restrictions if it was needed.

 

Since they stopped the restrictions we can presume the credit card issue was resolved to satisfaction hence there must be a big difference in the money that is sold - The need for the use of stolen credit cards on mass. Whatever happened it is safe to presume that the problem is fixed good enough or we wouldnt be here or more restrictions. End of. Anything else doesnt ecking matter. They dont need to 'give up' because they must of solved it 'good enough' or they wouldnt be here.

 

(Lets just remove the internet. If we removed the channels they operate on then that would solve the problem!!!)


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Pre-RWT updates: Many, many bots (especially in yews and rune essence).

 

Post-RWT updates: Hardly any bots at all.

 

I think Jagex took the step in the right direction.


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Pre-RWT updates: Many, many bots (especially in yews and rune essence).

 

Post-RWT updates: Hardly any bots at all.

 

I think Jagex took the step in the right direction.

 

In regard to bot control, yes.

 

In regard to improving the quality of the game, no.


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I don't believe Jagex will ever stop fighting RWT, the closest they would ever consider would be offering RWT services themselves.

 

If you want to eliminate black-market activities, provide a legal way to do those activities.

 

Some people RWT and they don't even know it is against the rules. I have heard cases of grandparents buying gold for their grandchildren because it seems like a good present for them, and it is the only quasi-publicized way of spending money on Runescape other than buying actual membership. And besides, little Timmy's parents already pay for his membership - why should we need to buy him more?

 

If Jagex opened up a shop in which you could buy 'feel-good clothes', 'EXP-modifiers', 'premium pets', perhaps even 'stat-boosting armour/weapons' and (God forbid) 'gold-pieces', I can guarantee you that this kind of RWT would be nullified. If there's a big button that says 'Ingame Shop' on an official site, it will get much more traffic than an unofficial site, providing the official site has equal or better deals than the unofficial site.

 

This would, however, place P2Pers in a middle-class position; they would no longer be the primary patrons of Jagex Ltd. Free Players, Members, and Shoppers would be three new classes of the Runescape society, and a lot of the negativity currently pushed on F2P would soon be redirected on P2P by the Shopper elite.

 

People would also complain that 'EXP-modifiers' and items with better stats made the game easier than when they played. What about Cook-X? What about String-X? 'Grind-X' features were introduced, and people moved on. It's called progression. If you don't want to use it, you'll quickly fall behind. Besides - it's a game. Nothing life changing. Yes, you pay for the game, but now there is a class of people who pay more than you, and Jagex as a company will pertain to methods that create profit.

 

I agree with the OP on one part, though: In order to eliminate RWT without succumbing to providing it officially, Jagex must eliminate the sources.

The reason why people sell gold is because people will buy gold. The easy way to kill off illegal trading was aforementioned - Open a legal source of goldselling.

Unless you can find a way to make people not want to buy gold, this is the only solution at the root of the problem. If we do not want to provide official goldselling, we must move up and away from the root.

 

Now we can see that if goldselling can happen, it will. And that is why it must be combated. Goldselling occurs through player trading, and with unrestricted and/or unmonitored player trading it can thrive quite well. Jagex has chosen to restrict player to player trading, yet time after time more effective mediums have been found in order to continue selling gold to those who will buy it.

 

To end this trade, you must only stop one of the two parties (the goldseller, and the goldbuyer) involved in the process of goldselling. Without one, the other cannot survive. As I believe human nature is inherently selfish, I will not consider stopping the goldbuyer; he will take the easiest route to success. Stopping the goldseller can be attempted on two fronts: legal and ingame. Stopping goldsellers on a legal front is good, but it does not affect the birth of new goldsellers, and legal issues are time consuming and very complex, especially once you move into an online game that spans multiple countries, and thus multiple laws. I will skip legal suggestions due to their inherent complexity and my own lack of knowledge in those matters, and move directly on to the second front, ingame combatance.

 

To fight the goldsellers ingame, you must stop them from achieving their goal. This requires above average insight into the methods they use - as their goal is generally the same as many of the real players in game, that is, to assume a collection of objects worth monetary value. The methods goldsellers may use to gather supplies can be classed into two categories, legal and illegal, yet most goldsellers will use illegal methods as those methods are faster and there isn't any point in being honest if you are going to be dishonest in the long run. To stop those who gather monetary value legally, the only way to stop them without discriminating against the average player is to deny or limit the tradeoff to the goldbuyer. Jagex has done this, and players have still found ways to make the tradeoff. An easy way to solve this would be to take trading out of the game altogether, yet this would hurt players and practically kill the concept of an MMO. Luckily, the goldsellers who gain money legitimately are few, and stopping those who gather gold illegally is a much more time-worthy idea.

 

The creation of accounts should be slowed down completely - no one needs to make an account everyday, much less every three months. Yes, changing your IP could get around this, but it would give the goldseller more of a hassle. Jagex could also create a cap on the number of accounts created per day, but many problems would need to be solved in order for that solution to work. Jagex should work on bot-detecting outside of it's game, aswell. I'm pretty sure many goldsellers use bots to create new accounts, and a stealthy script observing a large amount of accounts made from one IP address could either ban them automatically or link all of those accounts into one group and ban them when one of the accounts is found guilty of macroing.

 

During the collection of monetary value, bots are getting hard to recognize by actual players as their coding evolves. Recognizing bots ingame is now mainly Jagex's part, although I would encourage players to question the validity of accounts that seem like they are not being controlled by a player. Jagex needs to constantly improve it's bot finding program, and I have no idea about programming, but generating random IDs for NPC's and objects sounds like a grand idea. Jagex should also enforce their "Multiple Login" rule more strictly, I believe a simple script could be created to alert when the same IP has logged in twice. Many botters confess to multilogging, and it makes complete logical sense aswell. If you're going to let one account do all the work by itself while you're gone, why not run two or three accounts at once?

 

 

Gosh, I feel like I've been rambling on and on. If you guys seen any errors in what I've said, or any suggestions, feel free to add on.

 

Edit: Looking back at this post, and realizing I have to scroll up with the wheel on my mouse for 3+ seconds to get to the top of my post, I'm not sure if the full effect of my point will get across. I don't have time to, but if anyone would like to make a list of points for those who can't be bothered to read it, that would be greatly appreciated. <3:

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tl:dr

 

But I read some parts, I have to agree and disagree with you Peregrine, I agree that the only way to stop this nonsense goldfarming is to open a legal source of purchasable gold, but I disagree that we should have such shop, it would be pretty much the case of a lot of MMORPGs: Shoppers vs Non-Shoppers, people should not get easier methods to do day-to-day stuff by just buying them out, the only thing people should pay for is for members, which makes sense, to unlock the other part of the game (And it balances it as you can't use Members' armor on the F2P servers) but making a shop with gold, armor, and EXP-Boosters would just ruin the game, not counting the waves of fire coming from the RSOF, the riots and the epic unbalance it would create


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For those of you who deny RWT still goes on, you're blissfully naive. As long as people are unable to buy or sell items in the Grand Exchange, RWT persists. Want a party hat? Find the right forum, add a couple hundred dollars, and someone will sell you it, mid price. There's even official middlemen on these sites to make your trades as secure as possible. Item-flipping attempt went wrong, and left you with 10 unsellable items? I'm sure someone will take it if you're willing to pay them.

 

This is becoming common, even standard practice among several of these forums that don't care much about what's permissible by Jagex's rules.

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Would like to add the fact that if Jagex did actually impliment rwt themselves then -that- would be the day that they 'gave up' to rwt. Not the day they overcame it.

 

Not mentioning the fact that the game truly would be screwed worse than any ingame updates they made to stop trading. Including complete remove of trade.

 

(Not that they didnt 'win' anyway since they obviously did or I wouldnt have the option to pay by credit. :rolleyes: )


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I agree with the OP on one part, though: In order to eliminate RWT without succumbing to providing it officially, Jagex must eliminate the sources.

The reason why people sell gold is because people will buy gold. The easy way to kill off illegal trading was aforementioned - Open a legal source of goldselling.

Unless you can find a way to make people not want to buy gold, this is the only solution at the root of the problem. If we do not want to provide official goldselling, we must move up and away from the root.

 

What is the sense of letting those that want the easy way out have their way? All this would do is create the same problem, except now that it's OKed by Jagex, and players like me, who actually play the game and get their items that way, would probably leave in droves.


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I thought they scrapped that idea, not enough people interested or something. But i hope they are still doing it.

 

There will always be RWT in runescape. What most of the recent updates did was actually make it so that the RWT's actually have to work for the little gold pieces that they are able to sell now.


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If RWT still exists, then how do they RWT now?

 

With just about all of the bots gone now, I can safely say Jagex eliminated a vast majority of RWT.


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I think they should give up, they've just wrecked the game in many areas and as long as the exchange is still in game then people will still be RWTing over it.


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Jagex only care about the RWT that gets them swamped with fraudulent credit card payments AKA irl companies dabbling in organised crime. some lone bozo selling gp to lil Timmy from his flat while paying his membership legitimately is a pretty low priority.

 

Agreed.

 

Pretty sure this is one of the first things Jagex mentioned and fears of potential liability.

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I don't believe anyone's foolish enough to suggest that RWT has been completely eradicated, but it's certainly been significantly reduced (enough to satisfy the real-world banks and credit companies, at least). So, while the restrictions to trade and such can be an annoyance to everyday players, I believe Jagex was justified in establishing them.

 

At this point, however, I can't see that there's much more Jagex can do; they've done well enough considering what they're up against, but RWT will most likely always exist in some form - no matter what actions they ultimately take to combat it. :mellow:

 

 

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What is WoW actually doing agains these issues? Maybe it's good to have a look at how other solve it.

Nothing, currently. The things they DID do against it are ancient, dating back to at least Burning Crusade, probably even further back. They delayed mail between two accounts that involved money and items by something like two hours and did the same for items bought via the auctionhouse, most likely to check the legitimacy of the trade, and disallowed trial accounts from getting more than X gold and going beyond level 20. And that's all. No trade restrictions, no auction house restrictions, nothing. But I've never seen or heard of Blizzard complaining about banks threatening to deny them credit card service. Which is odd, especially because all gold farmers must use a credit card to farm at all, unlike Runescape.

If the CORPORAL beast is this hard, imagine how hard a GENERAL or COLONEL beast would be. a corporal is not even an admirable rank in armies that use that ranking system.

 

Yeah, it is a pking minigame, so any arguments anybody makes will probably be biased.

The best way this will end :Everybody just says,"I'm not arguing with you anymore, goodbye."

The worst way this will end: I don't really know, psychological warfare? Worldwide thermonuclear war? Pie eating contest?

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What is WoW actually doing agains these issues? Maybe it's good to have a look at how other solve it.

Nothing, currently. The things they DID do against it are ancient, dating back to at least Burning Crusade, probably even further back. They delayed mail between two accounts that involved money and items by something like two hours and did the same for items bought via the auctionhouse, most likely to check the legitimacy of the trade, and disallowed trial accounts from getting more than X gold and going beyond level 20. And that's all. No trade restrictions, no auction house restrictions, nothing. But I've never seen or heard of Blizzard complaining about banks threatening to deny them credit card service. Which is odd, especially because all gold farmers must use a credit card to farm at all, unlike Runescape.

 

There's not much concern as gold doesn't impact a great deal in the game like Runescape does. WoW is more concerned with skill than wealth and time spent.


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