Big barrows analysis

[D Jay99]

Thanks. I guess I didn't realize you were using a super prayer dose on each run, but I should have given they are in your inventory. (I was doing my tests using no prayer pots at all.) Also:

 

 

Try to exit as fast as you can after killing any brother, can make a 6-12 ppoint drain difference.

When I first started doing Barrows, there seemed to be some annoying bug where if you clicked the stairs while the dude was doing his melodrama death routine, sometimes it wouldn't count the kill. Is that fixed now?

 

I guess it has been fixed, I haven't noticed that glitch yet. I once did have to kill guthan twice though, but that was because I was standing next to the stairs and clicked on them when I thought I had killed him, he was only redbarred but I didn't have time to correct the mistake because I was so close to the stairs :P

 

Usually some prayer left now, use that for soul split while maging verac.

Okay so you are just maging all the way then, no salamander. Gotcha.

 

Next is ahrim, take a dose of spec restore if you don't have 75% spec bar or more. Kill ahrim, whip when out of dds specs.

He can do quite a bit of damage on you though.

Yeah he once hit 11 on me when I decided to try and get a last hit in while at 11 hp (got down to that from 60 or something), fortunately my hp had already restored to 12 moments before he hit me :P

 

Open chest, kill brother in same way as you would normally kill him in the tomb, except ahrim/karil will have to be done without prayer. Dharok can usually be safespotted if he spawns before you get to chest, if he can't be safespotted you can either risk it or sip a dose of ppot (you have one spare dose for this occasion). Loot chest, run out of tunnels while brewing up/changing gear etc. Somewhere in the tunnels overload will run out, just make sure you don't heal over 55 hp or something before it does. Get to karil's hill and start over.

This is the part I find a bit suspect. Trying to deal with Dharok in the tunnels using safespots and whatnot even once can really throw off your average time. Ahrim and Karil I usually deal with in the tunnels using my SGS, but they can be pretty tough as well -- especially if you are running around half dead waiting for the overload to wear off. :) And if using DDS or claws for spec the SGS is useless.

 

Trapping dharok takes maybe 10-15 seconds, so if you get him 1/6 chests on avg that would be 2 seconds more per run. Deciding there's no safespot available and sipping a ppot dose also takes less than 10 secs.

Ahrim is pretty dangerous in the tunnels yes, fortunately the only thing you have to do is live through the fight (the pizzas are for emergencies when 40-50 hp isn't enough), after that you can brew up. Karil has a lot less melee defence and will as such almost always be killed by dds specs + 2-3 whip hits.

Edit: NVM, I realize you are just using the staff for the bonus, not actually on Ancients.

And yeah, the 6 minutes/run go towards 7/8 fast if you don't pay full attention. It's even kind of hard to have a conversation on msn or something while doing this, so if you want to relax it might be a good idea not to aim for 6 minutes.

[qeltar]

Thanks.

 

Yeah, there are a lot of things to take into account. I've done extensive analysis of different methods as part of a detailed Barrows guide I wrote for my previous site, and then again for my moneymaking guide. I ended up with methods generally assuming about 9 minutes per run "net net", meaning everything taken into account. I've found that sometimes when I try to go faster I end up making mistakes that cause me to eventually go slower, such as clicking the wrong puzzle answer and getting the doors scrambled, wasting supplies, or even getting close to dying.

 

The cost of a method is also quite important, since money is the only real reason to do Barrows. My latest figures show an average value per chest of about 145k right now. This means that a method that takes 7 minutes per chest but costs 45k per chest is not any better than one that takes 9 minutes per chest but costs 15k per chest. Yes, you get a bit more mage XP, though some would argue that you can train mage more effectively in other ways.

 

Roughly how many runes do you end up using over 12 chests?

[D Jay99]

Thanks.

 

Yeah, there are a lot of things to take into account. I've done extensive analysis of different methods as part of a detailed Barrows guide I wrote for my previous site, and then again for my moneymaking guide. I ended up with methods generally assuming about 9 minutes per run "net net", meaning everything taken into account. I've found that sometimes when I try to go faster I end up making mistakes that cause me to eventually go slower, such as clicking the wrong puzzle answer and getting the doors scrambled, wasting supplies, or even getting close to dying.

 

The cost of a method is also quite important, since money is the only real reason to do Barrows. My latest figures show an average value per chest of about 145k right now. This means that a method that takes 7 minutes per chest but costs 45k per chest is not any better than one that takes 9 minutes per chest but costs 15k per chest. Yes, you get a bit more mage XP, though some would argue that you can train mage more effectively in other ways.

 

Roughly how many runes do you end up using over 12 chests?

29 casts per chest on average, and of those I usually waste like 2 in the tunnels too because I forget to turn off autocast surge. It's going to cost more than 15k/chest anyway unless you don't use stat boosters, but that about doubles the time in which you kill ahrim/karil and makes them do more damage too.

But yeah I agree, the setup is indeed a little expensive. Especially the overloads.

 

- Finished another 10 chest trip today, was only 10 chests because I had to sip a ppot dose in the tunnels once cause I had an unsafespottable dharok spawns and not having enough ppoints left to kill dharok after killing karil cost another 2 doses. Tunnel brothers really sucked too, had 1 torag 1 guthan 2 dharoks and 3 karils/ahrims. Total time was 59 minutes from house tab to house tab.

 

- Finished 12 more chests, 1 hour 10 minutes total and 25.8 casts/chest on avg.

Edited January 20, 2010 by D Jay99

[bedman]

Sorry to bump up this old topic, but I think I pretty much found the best set up there is (from everything I tried). I can do consistent chests under 5 min this way. (did 8 so far, and only one was over).

 

Here is my invo and what I'm wearing:

 

 

As you can see, a lot of ppots. This is because you will turmoil + deflect EVERY brother on the surface. Ardy cloak is to boost my stab att and give some prayer bonus. Ring is dragonstone (e) for stab bonus. You can use Onyx if you wanna risk it. An important part of the set up is the rapier. I'm not sure how well a whip will perform, nor a godsword. A CLS or maul will probably own too.

 

Now, using prayer makes everything VERY straightforward and fun :-).

 

Sip 3 doses of prayer (I mostly do 2 and a 3rd one if I see I need it, which is nearly always). Make sure you have quick curses on deflect melee and turmoil. Sip overload, use quick curse, and start pounding. You 3 hit brothers quite often. The sequence of the brothers doesn't matter at all anymore, because you will pray on all of them. I start out with karil or ahrim mostly, so my spec bar can restore for ahrim/karil (so kill karil, do all melee brothers, kill ahrim, or the other way around). I used dds cause I temporarily sold my claws, but actually I'm very happy with it. 2 Claw specs are often overkill, while with a dds you can dose the things more (use 3 dds specs for instance).

 

I mostly tank the brothers I get in the tunnel. When they really start hitting me, I sip a pray pot though, and use turmoil + deflect. In the tunnels, I only kill 2-4 monsters, basically whenever I see a blood worm or small rat in my way.

 

All in all I use 3 doses of prayer, one dose of overload and 2-3 doses of spec restore per chest. Hard to put a number on food usage, but it's really low. Basically it's just what monsters hit on me in tunnels, and if some tunnel brother gets lucky. I value overloads and spec restores at zero gp (because I got 99 herblore by it (lifetime supply), and it was one of the cheapest routes at that time), so it only costs me around 8k a chest.

 

Last thing I should add is that I haven't used the above inventory yet. The inventory shown above is a tweak from my first try out run. This try out run was with 2 overloads, more brews (5) and the same amount of ppots. I ended up with 3 brews and 3 pray pots left, so I decided to toss in more overloads and spec restores. It will probably need some small tweaks, but I think a 12 chest set up is possible.

 

So that's it: A method that gets you runs under 5 min, requires no annoying autocast/equipment switches, and is just plain fun to use (if you get in some nice hits :-)).

[Obtaurian]

I'm digging that setup and method, Bedman. Worthy gravedig.

[bedman]

Just ready Djays comments again. His idea of soul splitting karil and verac seems a good one. Gonna try that out later.

[Lugia_Lvl138]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-BdljkPsXU

 

Video of me doing Barrows with a slightly different setup from Bedman.

[MstrMonopoly]

I'll be the first to say it... wow.

[Knitewulf]

This post is insane and makes me want to go try barrows out again 0-0. Your items were a lot better than average.

[ghjkl]

Still with 5 minute barrows trips it does not compete with the best moneymakers, namely tds/bandos/arma/dks which are all around 4m per hour.

[Lugia_Lvl138]

Still with 5 minute barrows trips it does not compete with the best moneymakers, namely tds/bandos/arma/dks which are all around 4m per hour.

 

500+ solos since I got any major drop from Bandos(Boots aren't major drops), and in 24 Barrows chests I got Ahrim Skirt, Guthan Plate, Dharok Helm. Barrows might not stack up over time, but it's fun and relaxing to me. As opposed to TDs where it felt like I was at a job where I had to meet some kind of quota. Should be a bit better now that Woox16 made his TD vid though.

[bedman]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-BdljkPsXU

 

Video of me doing Barrows with a slightly different setup from Bedman.

Aah nice. Kinda makes me want to have a chaotic long too. You think Bandos etc. is better than void? I guess void is slightly more useful for rapier, since you only give up stab bonuses from fighter hat (which I dont have) and barrow gloves, and you can keep wearing Ardy cloak with it's awesome +6 stab. I love how ardy cloak is useful again for me. Kinda sucks that there is no +8 stab ring on the other hand.

 

I tried 8 trips first with bandos, neit (dont have fighter hat) etc... with just one sip (so no turmoiling most of them) and it was pretty slow often. (as in sometimes you 3 hit them, sometimes you just keep hitting zeroes, and I mean A LOT). Void + turmoil doesn't have that problem, but of course bandos + turmoil might have it neither.

 

How many sips of prayer do you take for the next run? I'd strongly advise taken extra sip if that means you can turmoil all of them.

 

To squareroot: I got to agree with Lugia. I don't do barrows for the uber loot. I do it cause it's pretty relaxing, and fun to try for uber fast runs. And every now and then you get a nice surprise, like the guthan helm I got at my first trip yesterday. All in all I made around 3.7m yesterday in under 1.5 hours.

 

EDIT: Just timed a run. Started timer when I left the bank and stopped it when I arrived in my house again. Managed to do 10 chests with my setup (changed the one I posted a little bit). I stopped because I only had one dose of prayer left. Time: 60 min 10 sec. Not as good as I thought it would be tbh. Yesterday it seemed I was pretty lucky with chest locations. Was a bit laggy today, but even that might have shaved off 30 sec max. So yeah, it's probably more around 6 min/chest in the long run. I do have runs where my overload only stops working when I'm working on the second brother or so though.

Got 613k in runes, bolt racks and a half key. No barrow drops. Still not bad IMO.

About soul splitting: It can be pretty damn handy, and perhaps the best on all brothers except dharok, but sometimes it can really screw you over too. It's also handy when you have a little prayer left and go in the tunnels to heal up on monsters.

[Lugia_Lvl138]

I take 2 doses of Super Prayer before each new run. I generally use Turmoil as much as I did in the first run. I think Bandos is a lot better since it gives you better def. You couldn't tank Karil in Void as well as I can in Bandos. Same for Guthan and Torag.

[Bladewing]

Uhh.. I've been able to pull 24 chests in 110 minutes for quite some time using ice barrage and then black salamander, whip/defender on karil and claws -> whip/defender on ahrim, so I'm not sure that using a rapier is better at all.

[bedman]

Uhh.. I've been able to pull 24 chests in 110 minutes for quite some time using ice barrage and then black salamander, whip/defender on karil and claws -> whip/defender on ahrim, so I'm not sure that using a rapier is better at all.

Wow, that's pretty impressive indeed. I must admit I never fully tested that method. One big advantage with a rapier/CLS is that it is very straightforward though.

[Tim]

Hawt, Now if I HAD a rapier+ 99 atk/str I'd love to try this out, but alas I shall stick to my Black Sally+ZS.

[bedman]

A little update to this awesome topic:

 

While some major items have been going down since the death of this topic (claws, frost dragon bones), the average barrows item has risen from 1.4m to 1.89m! Using a 12 chest/h figure, and 50k profit per chest (not sure if this is still accurate), you you can get nearly 2.5M of income per hour (neglecting costs, which are pretty minimal when you do it my way). In any case, it should be well over 2M/h!

 

[hide= been said before]With prayer pots so dirt cheap, I tried some barrowing with constant prayer (turmoil + deflect/soulsplit) and it's completely awesome. Soul split/deflect flash means you never need food. You don't need to bring hides for Ahrim either, cause you pray on him anyway. I also bring claws and spec restores to make quick work of Karil and Ahrim. I'm actually thinking that a DDS might be better, cause 2 claw specs are often overkill.

 

Melee'ing with extremes/ovl, chaotics and turmoil all the time makes consistent sub 5 min chests possible, so 12 chest/h is entirely manageable. Last trip I did a 2 ovl trip (8 chest), but with some tweaking, I'm sure I can fit in an inventory for 12 chests. Like I mentioned before, it's also very straightforward to melee, which is a big advantage IMO.

[/hide]

Conclusion: Barrows still isn't dead!

 

 

note: I don't use prayer for KC in tunnels. Still deciding wether it's worth it to pot up prayer for tunnel brothers, except for Ahrim/Dharok where I always do it.

Also not sure which chaotic is best. Last trip I tried maul and it worked pretty well.

 

EDIT: oeps, seems I used that always turmoil set up already before (+huge explanation). I guess this post is just a note about how barrows items have gone up.

[ghjkl]

but mage is better than melee

surgebox cstaff asn ovls fire surge does 4 minute runs

[bedman]

but mage is better than melee

surgebox cstaff asn ovls fire surge does 4 minute runs

Hmm, will try.

 

edit: Torag's plate and guth spear + helm (double drop) in a row!

edit2: made 7m in less than 2 hours, not bad I guess :-) (torag's plate, guth spear, guth helm, torag's legs + runes/racks)

I tried fire surge with chaotic staff, ovl, asn etc. and it was pretty damn fast, but I preferred to convenience of 100% melee. 4 min chests seems a bit exaggerated, you must be really lucky with chest locations for that

edit3: I'm at around 60 chests now, with 11m in just barrows loot (add another 2-3m for runes/racks). This means I'm averaging around 2M an hour, not bad. I've been traying bandos + maul, bandos + rapier, bandos with mage/rapier and void with mage/rapier. Out of all those, I prefer the void + rapier set up. I seem to be more accurate than with the bandos set up, and it's less of a hassle than any of the magic set ups (don't you hate fire surging karil when you want to claw spec him, cause you forgot to put off autocast) + you spend less.

[Roz]

I managed to make 25 in a single hour in the summer.

 

Barrows is so pro. :thumbsup:

[ghjkl]

I managed to make 25 in a single hour in the summer.

 

Barrows is so pro. :thumbsup:

25 what?

[Roz]

I managed to make 25 in a single hour in the summer.

 

Barrows is so pro. :thumbsup:

25 what?

 

 

Mexican peso.