Champions' Challenge - more than meets the eye?

[Jard_Y_Dooku]

Since the recent update to Champions' Challenge, I've been thinking...

 

Now, I am a former Champion of Champions, so I certainly know how difficult it is to complete all the challenges. With the recent update we saw the release of the second of six Champions of Champions. Assumedly, Jagex will follow the same pattern with the rest.

 

Do you think these updates will be frequent? Maybe every few months until it is completed? I am also quite glad we now finally have a way to prove what we've completed as far as challenges go. I intend to change my XI banner into an XV within the month.

 

Anyways, as far as rewards go... let's see, we have 4 CoCs left to go, assume 3 lesser champions each. That's 16 more, added to the current 15. Let's estimate around 30 in total. That's a LOT of champions and would be quite difficult to complete. As it is, I am one of VERY few people in RuneScape's who has completed 11 challenges. Even less now, if any, have completed all 15. And we have gotten next to nothing for it.

 

However... what if Jagex is saving something? Keeping back an incredibly powerful reward after all six CoCs have been defeated? I think this is quite possible, and it would have to be a REAL reward... something worthwhile, something that would change RuneScape as much as the abyssal whip did, BUT... be untradeable. An item for the TRULY elite warriors of RuneScape. With high level requirements in itself. Perhaps even total level or total experience requirements. An item that would be almost godlike. Something on the level of the Stone of Jas, although to a lesser extent. Obviously the quality of the reward will change how many people ACTUALLY go for the reward.

 

So, the purpose of this topic is to discuss future possible lesser champions to be released, and what rewards will be. Try to think of logical rewards based on the actual difficulty of obtaining 30 champion scrolls and defeating the champions.

 

Should the reward be an item? Should it be money? Experience? Should it be a permanent, one-time reward, or a reusable one?

 

So, I'll pitch the first idea: the reward should be a free 99 in any skill. Instantly. 13 million experience... or whatever you'd need to get it. Now of course you'll say that's too powerful, but wait... hold on JUST A SECOND!

 

Let's calculate how many monsters you need to kill to get all the champion scrolls. Let's use my table as an example: http://www.runeuniverse.us/championsguild/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=7

 

Now. That calculates to...

 

Goblin - 120,000 + 40,000 = 160,000 XP

Imp - 8 + 2.66 = 10.66 XP

Ghoul = 100,000 + 33,333.33 = 133,333.33 XP

Skeleton = 59,000 + 19,666.66 = 78,666.66 XP

Jogre = 1,440,000 + 480,000 = 1,920,000 XP

Hill Giant = 1,680,000 + 560,000 = 2,240,000 XP

Hobgoblin = 4,756 + 1,585.33 = 6341.33 XP

Zombie = 92,000 + 36,666.66 = 122,666.66 XP

Lesser Demon = 821,600 + 273,866.66 = 1,095,466.66 XP

Earth Warrior = 1,382,400 + 460,800 = 1,843,200 XP

 

TOTAL = 5,617,264 + 7,489,685.33 XP

 

So in TOTAL, I've gotten about 7.5 MILLION experience just GETTING the Champions' Challenge scrolls. And I'd consider myself quite lucky. 1 kill for imp. 41 kills for hobgoblin.

 

Even if someone were lucky like me getting THIRTY scrolls, that's 20 MILLION experience, which is MORE than a level 99 skill. And chances are it will take people more kills than it's taken me so far. So... you'll practically get enough experience for two level 99 skills completing Champions' Challenge (the final version). So I think as a reward for killing all the Champions (all 30), a free level 99 skill would be quite fair. And it wouldn't get you 13 million XP, the skill would be boosted to level 99. If your skill was at 13 million XP (level 98), you'd only get 34,041 XP.

 

So yes, I think that would be an interesting idea for a reward. A reward for the truly elite. Your ideas?

[SanNo1]

I don't think a free lvl 99 skill will be a great reward. The estimated 20 million exp. are in combat, so it would probably be easier to get the scrolls then lets say 99 rc or slayer. A powerful item sounds more likely, but there's also a chance that they will classify it as an 'achievement' and give you a flashy cape or something else that's unique, but with limited usability.

 

EDIT: Forgot to say that i'm with you 100% about them needing to finish the rest of the minigame :thumbsup:

[nerdboyxxx]

I wasn't sure when you said a free 99 skill, but after those calculations I'm sold. I'd also like a new, high-level item such as a weapon of some sort, but any of them are good :)

[Silver_Corner]

So, I'll pitch the first idea: the reward should be a free 99 in any skill. Instantly. 13 million experience... or whatever you'd need to get it. Now of course you'll say that's too powerful, but wait... hold on JUST A SECOND!

 

I don't mean to be the "nay-sayer", but every discussion needs a protagonist.

 

1) 13 million xp is WAY overpowered. Why should someone get 99 runecrafting for free, if they have already achieved 20 million xp in other stats by playing the minigame? A similar example is that, by getting 100 sets of void, I get a free 99 skill. You then have thousands of players playing the minigame instead since most people can stand combat, and nobody trains runecrafting. Boosting xp is ok, such as 50k xp lamps when you kill a champion, I'm fine with that. However, getting an instant 13m xp is just way overpowered in all aspects.

 

EDIT sidenote in hidebox below:

[hide]Assuming you ZMI all the way to 99, Runecrafting is about 40k xp an hour.

13m / 40k = 325 ingame hours for 99 Runecrafting

 

Assuming you get an average of about 40k xp an hour (average) killing NPC's

7.5m / 40k = 187.5 Ingame hours

 

Until the ingame hours of killing NPC's for champions far surpasses the ingame hours required to train runecrafting, you need to reconsider nobody would skill.[/hide]

 

 

2) I am against any reward to this minigame other than the ones currently given to us right now (although a 50k xp lamp upgrade is ok). The reason why this is, is because by adding a valuable untradeable reward, or giant lump of xp, people start to play the game for the rewards and not the minigame. Before you say: "Most will play the game because they like it", I will say: "Look at Mobilizing Armies". Since people will be playing the game only for the rewards, it hurts everyone.

 

I assume you want this reward because you are a current champion of champion, and want a reason for you to go and get the other scrolls. But you have to consider, if you made a reward everyone would want, everyone would work to get it. Then what are you left with, everyone else has the same reward as you, and your goal is no longer unique.

 

Champions challenge is ok the way it is now. The lack of rewards means only the people who want the thrill of the task will do it. Adding untradeables/xp simply means people will do a minigame they don't enjoy to get an item they want. I don't know about you, but I would rather have a minigame in which everyone playing enjoys it, rather than a large number of people playing it who hate it, just to get the reward at the end.

[DarkDude]

Any untradable reward would have to have limited uses and not be an overpowered combat weapon. The drop rate of the items are insane and rewarding anything like that or a free 13M xp like you suggested will never happen due to the way the mini-game works. It is entirely 100% luck based, there's no other rewards in the game that rely on luck, all 'rare' drops can be bought with money, all equipment/rewards from quests/skills have to be trained with little luck involved.

[Polnar]

Yeah sorry but it is clearly ridiculous to suggest any major reward for a minigame where the goal is to kill an enormous number of NPCs, who in the killing of you gain next to nothing. The minigame would be to spend an inordinate quantity of time killing goblins and imps ? No thank you. Change the game as much as the whip? Definitely not, you've clearly not thought this through, and merely selfishly want a big reward for you because you've, for some reason known only to yourself, engaged in a seemingly endless struggle to find, by a series of miracles, 15 challenge scrolls. To ask other players to do that simply to keep up with the game is obviously a terrible, terrible idea.

[Danqazmlp]

I don't think its a bad idea to add better rewards, but Jagex don't seem to want to add good rewards for the mini-games that take much much much longer than others (Cw Deco, Chompy Hats etc). They seem t have a trend of adding the good rewards to mini-games that take short amounts of time, and leave the much less useful, prestigious rewards to the games that can take more than 10x more play time to complete.

 

Briante, your calculations are wrong. Jard isn't talking about giving it to people who currently have the 15 scrolls, but those who eventually would have gotten all 30. This means that 7.5m would me 15m to start, and he himself has been incredibly lucky with his low kill counts. Factor in that you get much less than 40k/h, on enemies such as imps and goblins you can struggle to make 20k/h, you would probably end up playing 400-500 hours at least.

 

I think it would be a good idea to give something worthwhile, maybe an item or an armour piece that is incredibly strong, un-tradeable but still costs GP to buy from the champions guild, such as a 'champions helm' giving a massive strength bonus and defence. Would be unusable in PVP, but very useful vs NPC's. That is the main point of the reward imo, to be very good vs NPC's.

[Polnar]

I disagree, a minigame lasting 400-500 hours should not reward the player with yet another 'super item.' I just feel that the Champions' Challenge barely even qualifies as a minigame, as the game itself is only the fight with the Champions and the search for Challgenges merely the act of crossing fingers and blindly hoping. You literally may as well Jagex to reward players with some kind of super powered item for slaughtering 50,000+ cows, ankous, ice warriors etc. There is no skill whatsoever involved in the gaining of the challenges and it is madness to suggest deliberately forcing players through hundreds of hours of tedium for a reward. There must be a better way.

[Danqazmlp]

The skill comes in those having the determination to stick to it.

 

I could just as easily say that all other things in RS which give big rewards should not give them in the same wave.

 

And nobody is 'forcing' you to do it, unless you are one of those players who will negate fun just to get an item, which is really something you should not do.

[Polnar]

In being disadvantaged by not having an item, you are in effect being mildly forced to do it. And let's face it we have 'enough' 'skills' where long and drawn out slogging and determination is the only way of success. To ask a player to spend such an amount of time as this for an item, and you are talking 20 days, which constitues *ONE SIXTH* of my TOTAL PLAYING TIME, is self evidently, utterly ludicrous. If the reward was a super helm, then why not have another minigame for a new super cape? Heck, they could have one for each of the 11 slots in the combat equipment set up, and more for other combat styles, asking you to pay a staggering 200+ days for a set of gear? Face it, 500 hours for an item is total madness and there's no way you can argue it's a good idea.

[Gigatiran]

A free 99 isn't a great reward. I already have all 99s and 13m xp is no incentive for me to complete the challenges. I really think they should go back and significantly increase the difficulty of the champions and significantly increase the rewards. If they do ever come out with 30 or so champions, there should be a huge reward for someone who completes it, other than the satisfaction of completing it. A unique weapon, armor, or a pet of some sort would be really cool, or just something that makes it worth doing at least.

[Polnar]

I think they should rework the way in which challenge scrolls are obtained. Randomly killing tens of thousands of monsters just isn't a good way.

[Danqazmlp]

I can easily argue that it's a good idea.

 

It is a reward for people who have put in the effort of completing the mini-game. That is it, pure and simple. In basic, you are saying everything that takes a long time should give no rewards? That is ludicrous.

 

With a task like this, nobody is being forced to do it, it is a reward for those who want to put in the effort to do it. It is unfair to say that they can have no reward for doing so (I count the minute exp currently given as no reward)

 

 

It is very luck based, but so is everything in runescape. Should we not give hilt drops at GWD because player A can get it in half an hour, where as player B can take 50 hours? No, it is the basis of the game.

[Polnar]

In basic, you are saying everything that takes a long time should give no rewards? That is ludicrous.

 

That is totally removing what I said from it's context. There should be a better framework for obtaining the challenges.

 

I realise that many things in runescape are luck based but here we are talking about something that is widely accepted to take a minimum of 400 hours, and you're talking about nearly trippling the number of Champions, which would make this minigame take in the region of 1200+ hours to complete. This is a colossal 50+ days of playing time, and short of a 1 item 'Godsuit' with attached sword that halves all damage and doubles the damage of the weapon I'm not sure what kind of reward is worth that scale of time, something far too game changing and unbalanced to be introduced by any means.

 

Your argument that the longer it takes the better the reward is flawed here because of the sheer length of time required. In 50 days of playing time a player could achieve multiple 99 stats. You just cannot equate the time to the reward. With a change in the way in which scrolls are obtained, (perhaps mini quests where you journey and fight successive members of each monster type with a final boss that are very difficult to complete), perhaps it would be more reasonable to suggest a powerful item as a reward, but certainly nothing as game changing as the whip or godsword.

[D Jay99]

With a task like this, nobody is being forced to do it,

I don't know about others, but I totally felt forced to train herblore after the herblore update. And that was just for extreme potions. You don't think people would feel really forced to kill all those monsters for a 'free' 99? I don't think that's a good thing.

[Danqazmlp]

I am personally not arguing it should be game breaking, or even still worthwhile, just something. A Helm which can be combined and used by rangers mages and mellee and slightly stronger than all that currently exists would be a good example. It would not be worth the time getting, but would be something for those who do.

 

Maybe even something purely cosmetic such as your name on a board outside, or inside the guild.

[Polnar]

Yeah sure there's nothing wrong with cosmetic stuff like that, but a helm that serves all 3 styles and is better than any other in their single field? Well maybe not.

[QueenValerie]

Reward should be a cape that flashes all the champions you killed. <3:

 

 

Yeah I am way out there .... like that would ever happen. :blink:

[Polnar]

Couple of ideas

 

- PoH additions - statues/banners

- Champion of Champions Cape

[The Observer]

I got 99 Attack, Strength, Defence and Hitpoints from armoured zombies and got a champion scroll. So that could be helpful for some. So I'd say that in itself can be a nice incentive.

[Danqazmlp]

Yeah sure there's nothing wrong with cosmetic stuff like that, but a helm that serves all 3 styles and is better than any other in their single field? Well maybe not.

 

 

So basically, you want the reward for doing 500+ hours of playing, to be no better than anything else in game? What gives people who have done 30 hours of GWD or TD's to buy the best gear, any right over those who do this to have the best gear?

 

The gear or reward given should be better than anything in the game currently, but as i say, it won't be a game-breaker, just slightly better as a reward, but not a forced task.

[Polnar]

Yeah sure there's nothing wrong with cosmetic stuff like that, but a helm that serves all 3 styles and is better than any other in their single field? Well maybe not.

 

 

So basically, you want the reward for doing 500+ hours of playing, to be no better than anything else in game? What gives people who have done 30 hours of GWD or TD's to buy the best gear, any right over those who do this to have the best gear?

 

The gear or reward given should be better than anything in the game currently, but as i say, it won't be a game-breaker, just slightly better as a reward, but not a forced task.

 

Why do you stubbornly refuse to comprehend that making something that is better than everything else is inherently game breaking, and inherently forces people to aim for it? It really is pretty self-explanatory.

 

 

The reason I feel there shouldn't be such a reward for it is that I feel that the minigame shouldn't work like this in the first place, no single minigame should require 500 hours, (or indeed the 1200+ hours predicted in the future), of playing time to complete, for obvious reasons.

[Romy]

Uhh... I'm sorry to disappoint you there, but you won't be getting any free 99s from Jagex, no matter what. I can gurantee that, I'm 100% certain and would bet my life on that.

 

 

Moreover, I think you completely missed the idea behind Champion's Challenge. I may not be as sure of that as I am of my last statement, but Champion's Challenge is not SUPPOSED to be a rewarding mini-game.

It's there for the challenge, not the reward- adding a unique reward would completely destroy it's purpose. I highly doubt, I'm even pretty sure, Jagex's intentions are to leave that mini-game rewardless. As I already said, the purpose of this mini-game is a fun, extremely hard challenge, nothing more than a cosmetic reward IMO.

[Pirate_Felix]

what about an epic epic epic epic emote that shows you killing all the champions with an Ike like sword (splitting the first in two, stabbing the second, ancient mace special like thing for third etc etc)

[Polnar]

what about an epic epic epic epic emote that shows you killing all the champions with an Ike like sword (splitting the first in two, stabbing the second, ancient mace special like thing for third etc etc)

 

haha :thumbup: