Skilling methods involving PvP risk

[Peronix]

I've been thinking about making a topic like this for a while now, but wasn't quite sure how to present it. Well I've had an interesting debate with some guy on the RSOF about it, and I think it sums up my points nicely (especially in my first post). At some points I probably seem a little immature, because frankly I was getting a little frustrated at the guy not even being willing to see the points of anything I was saying at all. Though it is definitely possible that I was wrong on some points :wink:

 

QFC: 81-82-26-59906105

 

[hide=first couple of posts]

HIM: jagex said that one of the reasons the wilderness pking was removed was that picnicing at the abyss was not in the spirit of the game. when a dozen pkers can stand in the same spot so that skillers can see their numbers or counter attacking them for hours chatting, they are not acting in the spirit of the game.

 

the wilderness was intended to be a place where armed and armored pkers faced off against armed and armored pkers to be the best.

 

instead you had people that feed off skillers, unwilling to earn money themselves.

 

THAT is precisely what you said you want. save, soft, unarmed, unarmored targets to feed off.

 

EARNED YOUR OWN MONEY.

 

 

ME: ***, if that is true, then why did they not simply relocate the abyss? It stands to reason that the whole reason they put the entrance to the abyss in the wilderness in the first place was to add an element of danger coming from other players to runecrafting, while providing a better reward for that risk. If they wanted to keep the element of danger while removing the PvP aspect of it, all they would have to do is do something similar to ZMI with the abyss.

 

But personally, even though I was defiantly not a fan of abyss PKers, having ranted regularly in those days about them, I kind of miss them now. First and most importantly because since the risk has been almost completely removed, more people use the abyss and thus prices on runes have dropped (and still are low even today, if you adjust for inflation). And secondly, because the risk made RCing with the abyss interesting. Every approach to the abyss was dangerous, every time I saw a while dot my heart pounded, and I got ready to teleport the hell out of there if I got frozen, or chug that sara brew in case I got teleblocked and binded.

 

Yes, abyss pkers were losers IMO. But I liked having them around, it gave me an enemy. I loved having an enemy. After that fateful December, all the fun went out of RCing for me, even though I still went on to get 99.

[/hide]

 

So yeah, I realized that after abyss pkers were removed from the equation, I no longer found RCing fun because it was just a grind. I told other people that I still found it fun, probably just to drive myself to 99. But the fact that I have gained barely 200k exp in RC since I hit 99 speaks for itself.

 

 

So, I'm interested to get your opinions on this.

 

What do you think about having exceptional skilling methods that inherently involve PvP risk? Do you think they would add an interesting and fun element to the game? Or am I really in that small of a minority?

 

 

PS: Oh, and just to be clear, I don't consider brawlers a valid thing for drawing skillers to PvP worlds, because that inherently requires you to be a PKer (or, at least 76k. but that's just a silly loophole :roll:)

[elucin8er]

I like this post, and I truely miss skill benefits involving pking risks. They are what made it worthwhile, and only those risking it would benefit greater than others.

 

Previous examples include:

 

1. Oldschool greater demon ranging. Rune helms were amazing money back then, only greater demons dropped em, from the wild.

2. Green dragon slaying. Best location was graveyard tele, had to deal with tons of pkers. Amazing money

3. Abyss Runecrafting. Only those who risked the abyss gained the fastest rc xp that involved keeping ur runes

4. Rune mining. Wilderness mining was the best if you didn't run into pkers. The risk of doing it this was benefited you greatly

 

( There are of course many more, but these stand out to me ).

 

All of these methods have gone, you can do them now without any risk. I think this aids a lot in the current easy nature of the game now, and how simple it is to gain money now that these methods have been removed.

 

I would love to see new benefits that require a pvp risk. I used to do anything involving the wild to ensure I was participating in the best methods for each skill. The players who took the risk were noticebly better off than those that didn't.

[SacredFlam3s]

i was ( and still am) getting 70 agility, and I was risking about 111k on a bounty world. I was pked after about 5 seconds, but still, I would love to see stuff like this. Out-running revs is stupid.

[Peronix]

i was ( and still am) getting 70 agility, and I was risking about 111k on a bounty world. I was pked after about 5 seconds, but still, I would love to see stuff like this. Out-running revs is stupid.

 

Yeah... that sort of relates to something I told the guy I mentioned in the OP: skilling in PvP worlds is basically just taking a risk for the sake of taking risks, there is no tangible reward to it. Risk alone isn't enough for something to be fun. It would be another thing entirely if they gave exp bonuses simply for skilling in PvP areas... though, admittedly, something that blatantly simple wouldn't make a whole lot of sense.

[bedman]

Therea ARE tangible rewards for skilling in pvp worlds. Just carry at least 76k and you will gain drop potential which will earn you money. You risk something, you get something.

 

And eluciner: green dragon slaying nowadays is safer, yet even more profitable.

 

But yeah, I agree, risk vs. reward is a good tradeoff and should be used more in skilling, not just pking.

[elucin8er]

And eluciner: green dragon slaying nowadays is safer, yet even more profitable.

 

Yes this is entirely my point ... It used to be risky, now it's not.

[JoeDaStudd]

So yeah, I realized that after abyss pkers were removed from the equation, I no longer found RCing fun because it was just a grind. I told other people that I still found it fun, probably just to drive myself to 99. But the fact that I have gained barely 200k exp in RC since I hit 99 speaks for itself.

This is the whole reason I haven't RC'd much at all on my current account. On my old account I was 63+ RC'ing all because of the rush I used to get when I was RC'ing via the abyss.

You couldn't beat the thrill of scrapping past numerous pk'ers, their anger when you used the skeletons or the rush you get having 15hp, poisoned, teleblocked and in the abyss.

There was nothing like having someone almost kill you only to gear up and kill them out right the next time you passed them.

 

The lack of wildy and wildy ditch killed RC'ing for me almost completely.

[Peronix]

Therea ARE tangible rewards for skilling in pvp worlds. Just carry at least 76k and you will gain drop potential which will earn you money. You risk something, you get something.

 

And eluciner: green dragon slaying nowadays is safer, yet even more profitable.

 

But yeah, I agree, risk vs. reward is a good tradeoff and should be used more in skilling, not just pking.

 

Again, like brawlers, EP requires either PKing or 76king to use. The former is not something I am adept at, and the latter is a loophole that Jagex is intent on fixing (though they will probably fail at that like they have several times now :blink:).

[3hitm4g3u]

I definately loved killing skillers.

 

Got owned a few times by lucky dds specs though.

[bedman]

Therea ARE tangible rewards for skilling in pvp worlds. Just carry at least 76k and you will gain drop potential which will earn you money. You risk something, you get something.

 

And eluciner: green dragon slaying nowadays is safer, yet even more profitable.

 

But yeah, I agree, risk vs. reward is a good tradeoff and should be used more in skilling, not just pking.

 

Again, like brawlers, EP requires either PKing or 76king to use. The former is not something I am adept at, and the latter is a loophole that Jagex is intent on fixing (though they will probably fail at that like they have several times now :blink:).

I think Jagex considers 76king fixed now... It's a big shame but I fear it is the truth.

 

I'm kind of losing confidence in Jagex with these kind of updates. Same goes for todays update. The introduce new spells which require death and blood runes and then go on with: now you'll need more runes, so we updated runecrafting.

Well, can we get more deaths and bloods by rcing? Of course not. They just made nat runecrafting easier for the lower lvls and left the 91 runecrafters in the dust. Now I wouldn't mind if this would have been the system from in the beginning, but adding this update with the reason being "get your runes for the new spells easier" is just plain stupid.

/rant

[Peronix]

Couldn't agree more with you there bud. 91 RC feels... more like a glass ceiling now than an achievement. It is now merely the level where you stop getting more for your effort.

 

I'm getting quite tired of arguing this point on the RSOF, too. Some [wagon] even had the nerve to call me the selfish one because "I wanted a benefit that only benefits a small portion of the RS population", RAAAAAAGEEEE!!! :x Even more rage from the fact that the Jmods posting seem to support him. I'm kind of regretting renewing my membership, all of the sudden.

[Wouter828]

Hmm, I do see your point I just can't think of any examples at the moment apart from the old abyss pking. I guess there's still the option though, if you need the thrill you can go to PvP and skill there. There are also players who skill in PvP to gain EP.

 

I don't agree though that you should combine skilling with risk, I didn't like the possibility of being pked while just trying to skill. It was just annoying. There was a thrill but it was just plain fear of losing my stuff and hatred when I lost it.

 

If I want a kick I'll go kill some bad-[wagon] monster. When I want to relax I'll go skilling.

[Peronix]

Wouter, I defiantly see your point, and I'm glad we don't have something like PvP in all worlds, everywhere anymore. Because sometimes we really do need to just relax.

 

But the thing is, there are already a wide range of great alternatives available in non-wilderness for skilling. Don't like making natures with the abyss? Well, you always had the option of doing it the old fashioned way. Yes it was slower, but it stands to reason that higher risk should yield higher rewards. I'm not quite sure why you feel pressured to use the risky method just because of the higher reward. I know full well that PKing and monster hunting could be a much better source of income for me, but I'd rather stick with something a bit less risky.

 

The reason I liked riskier skilling methods is because I'm not quite bold enough to engage in PKing, yet I find regular skilling mundane and boring. Abyss RCing carried an element of fun, because there was some strategy involved in dodging the PKers. I think that similar PvP skilling methods would inherently require a bit of strategy and planning ahead, and perhaps even collaboration with fellow players. That's the kind of thing I really think should be encouraged.

[eviltom]

but at 91 rc now you can make 2-3 nats per craft i heard :thumbsup: so all that has done is made it cheaper to get to 99 mage because nats will drop <_< but rcers will still make the same profit as before so its all good <_<

[Peronix]

but at 91 rc now you can make 2-3 nats per craft i heard :thumbsup: so all that has done is made it cheaper to get to 99 mage because nats will drop <_< but rcers will still make the same profit as before so its all good <_<

 

Not true at all, I've tested this myself.

[remington]

Personally I hated skilling in the wild, well... I still hate it. But now I really don't have to worry about it any longer. The thing is the wild is, or at least SHOULD be about people that want to kill each other.

 

Jagex should NOT turn other players into content for Pkers. How often do we STILL here people whining about players running in the wild? Or teleporting? I don't mind them making places more dangerous. Slap in a few high level monsters, make sure prayer can't be used. And make it "round" so there are no safe spots. Heck, if skillers want it to feel more like the wild have the monsters named "pur0Okillz", or something. And have it hurl childish insults as it attacks you. Then just before killing you, it can yell, "noob!". Jagex can save on coding and have it say the same thing if you happen to kill it...

 

Skillers in the wild were almost always soft targets, killed and hunted by the same likes that normally Pked 2 steps from the edge, and only attacked weak toons they KNEW they would beat. That really should not be something Jagex either of approves of, or rewards.

[Str4lif3]

Yes, abyss pkers were losers IMO. But I liked having them around, it gave me an enemy. I loved having an enemy. After that fateful December, all the fun went out of RCing for me

 

Couldn't agree more on this. Abyss pker were what made runecrafting fun. I totally lost interest in Rcing after they removed pking.

[elucin8er]

Personally I hated skilling in the wild, well... I still hate it. But now I really don't have to worry about it any longer. The thing is the wild is, or at least SHOULD be about people that want to kill each other.

 

Jagex should NOT turn other players into content for Pkers. How often do we STILL here people whining about players running in the wild? Or teleporting? I don't mind them making places more dangerous. Slap in a few high level monsters, make sure prayer can't be used. And make it "round" so there are no safe spots. Heck, if skillers want it to feel more like the wild have the monsters named "pur0Okillz", or something. And have it hurl childish insults as it attacks you. Then just before killing you, it can yell, "noob!". Jagex can save on coding and have it say the same thing if you happen to kill it...

 

Skillers in the wild were almost always soft targets, killed and hunted by the same likes that normally Pked 2 steps from the edge, and only attacked weak toons they KNEW they would beat. That really should not be something Jagex either of approves of, or rewards.

 

Wow nice QQ. If you weren't risky enough to skill in the wild, then you could skill other ways. There was always the alternative, and those skillers who dared to skill in the wild, benefited. People such as yourself who liked the safe game, could stay within it fine.

[mario_sunny]

Abyss rcing was one of the best things in the game. Back in 2006, you couldn't find a funner way to skill than abyss runecraft. Not only was it fun and exciting, it was extremely profitable, and barely anyone did it (compared to the tens of thousands of rcers today). Oh, I miss those days!

 

I can proudly say I got 50-83 runecrafting in the abyss and never died once to an abyss pker! :mrgreen: It was so fun dodging them sometimes I even teased them when I ran by.

[Xx_Flare_xX]

Skillers in the wild were almost always soft targets, killed and hunted by the same likes that normally Pked 2 steps from the edge, and only attacked weak toons they KNEW they would beat. That really should not be something Jagex either of approves of, or rewards.

 

Thats their problem though. like everything else they knew the risk and took it.

 

And It wasn't just skillers who were the "soft targets"

 

Skillers < Abyss PKers < REAL PKers.

 

The thing I loved about old wildy was the Risk vs Reward system. If you wanted a chance of getting a good reward (in the skiller's case faster RC experience) You had to go into a place with a large chance of being attacked.

 

Now it's just a complete JOKE! you just go in, do your business and leave. Revs are just something to look at and thanks to places like SC and CLW most of the wild is a giant TSB bank!

 

Wild should be PKer territory in ALL worlds.

[JoeDaStudd]

Skillers in the wild were almost always soft targets, killed and hunted by the same likes that normally Pked 2 steps from the edge, and only attacked weak toons they KNEW they would beat. That really should not be something Jagex either of approves of, or rewards.

 

Thats their problem though. like everything else they knew the risk and took it.

 

And It wasn't just skillers who were the "soft targets"

 

Skillers < Abyss PKers < REAL PKers.

 

The thing I loved about old wildy was the Risk vs Reward system. If you wanted a chance of getting a good reward (in the skiller's case faster RC experience) You had to go into a place with a large chance of being attacked.

 

Now it's just a complete JOKE! you just go in, do your business and leave. Revs are just something to look at and thanks to places like SC and CLW most of the wild is a giant TSB bank!

 

Wild should be PKer territory in ALL worlds.

To add to this there was very little time for a pk'er to actually get a skiller/rc'er. They literally had 5 steps where they could get them. Magic was a bit pointless without they were high magic with maxed magic bonus they had no chance of hitting. Melee'ers had to get the KO within 5 steps, this was 2 attack cycles at the most. Remember this was pre-d claws so it was 2 DDS specs at the most.

This risk associated with RC'ing kept the rune prices high and allowed for RC'ing to be extremely profitable.