NJE03 Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 Looking through the discontinued items section of the forum one may notice that rare items which have a GE value of a mere 30m are selling for hundreds of millions to those who have 'junk items'. The problem I have with this is not so much the use of junk items, as I believe the market should be free as it once was, but rather the fact that one is unable to sell their items for a price which other are willing to pay without utilizing this 'junk. This seems to be an unnecessary waste of time and money for all involved. [spoiler=Stats:]Updated December 22, 2011: Total level - 1442 - 170M+ XP , Combat level - 115Combat skills: Attack - 90, Defence - 99 (24.45m+ XP), Strength - 90, Constitution - 99 (16.42M+ XP) Ranged - 99 (13.32M+ XP), Prayer - 60, Magic - 99 (13.25M+ XP)Non-Combat skills: Cooking - 99 (13.80M+ XP), Woodcutting - 99 (31.95M+ XP), Fishing - 90, Firemaking - 99 (24.82M+), Crafting - 90, Smithing - 90, Mining - 85, Runecrafting - 60, Dungeoneering - 85 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuckyTheSwan Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 Can f2p not chop loads of willows? Can they not buy maple shorts off the grand exchange? Can they not fish hundreds of lobsters and tuna? There are loads of ways that f2p can get junk. Sure, members have more ways but that's perfectly fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omali Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 Yea, so Jagex should insert some useless items to purposely support a player-bit they don't support. That makes complete sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJE03 Posted November 17, 2009 Author Share Posted November 17, 2009 Not quite Omali. In fact your suggestion for Jagex to insert useless items would only further irritate the problem. They should either eliminate this practice of junk trading or allow free trade. As it currently stands some players are manipulating the system to gain an upper hand over others as detailed in my original post. [spoiler=Stats:]Updated December 22, 2011: Total level - 1442 - 170M+ XP , Combat level - 115Combat skills: Attack - 90, Defence - 99 (24.45m+ XP), Strength - 90, Constitution - 99 (16.42M+ XP) Ranged - 99 (13.32M+ XP), Prayer - 60, Magic - 99 (13.25M+ XP)Non-Combat skills: Cooking - 99 (13.80M+ XP), Woodcutting - 99 (31.95M+ XP), Fishing - 90, Firemaking - 99 (24.82M+), Crafting - 90, Smithing - 90, Mining - 85, Runecrafting - 60, Dungeoneering - 85 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omali Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 They should either eliminate this practice of junk trading or allow free trade. As it currently stands some players are manipulating the system to gain an upper hand over others as detailed in my original post. Neither are going to happen. Jagex has said that they're not going to interfere in the junk trading, and free trade will never happen. And as already said, f2p has junk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJE03 Posted November 18, 2009 Author Share Posted November 18, 2009 They should either eliminate this practice of junk trading or allow free trade. As it currently stands some players are manipulating the system to gain an upper hand over others as detailed in my original post. Neither are going to happen. Jagex has said that they're not going to interfere in the junk trading, and free trade will never happen. And as already said, f2p has junk. Allow me to briefly explain the flaw with 0barbarica0's definition of junk. If one were to buy an item, lets call it "junk X" for 100 gp off of the GE then it's market value would be 100 gp. Using junk X in a trade would yield no profit since you would gain the same amount you bought it for, rendering the whole process useless. As for the idea of gathering raw resources and calling them junk, this is not an accurate use of the word 'junk' in the context of this topic. In addition I am aware that free trade will not come back. Can't hurt to wish though, right? :^_^: I was not however aware that Jagex has stated that they will not interfere with junk trading. [spoiler=Stats:]Updated December 22, 2011: Total level - 1442 - 170M+ XP , Combat level - 115Combat skills: Attack - 90, Defence - 99 (24.45m+ XP), Strength - 90, Constitution - 99 (16.42M+ XP) Ranged - 99 (13.32M+ XP), Prayer - 60, Magic - 99 (13.25M+ XP)Non-Combat skills: Cooking - 99 (13.80M+ XP), Woodcutting - 99 (31.95M+ XP), Fishing - 90, Firemaking - 99 (24.82M+), Crafting - 90, Smithing - 90, Mining - 85, Runecrafting - 60, Dungeoneering - 85 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeDaStudd Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 Allow me to briefly explain the flaw with 0barbarica0's definition of junk. If one were to buy an item, lets call it "junk X" for 100 gp off of the GE then it's market value would be 100 gp. Using junk X in a trade would yield no profit since you would gain the same amount you bought it for, rendering the whole process useless. As for the idea of gathering raw resources and calling them junk, this is not an accurate use of the word 'junk' in the context of this topic. In addition I am aware that free trade will not come back. Can't hurt to wish though, right? :^_^: I was not however aware that Jagex has stated that they will not interfere with junk trading.Junk is an item with mid GE value greater then actual value. Nothing more, nothing less. If you buy something on the GE for 100 which has a mid value of 125 you've got 25 in junk.If you buy something from a shop for 6gp and its mid value is 200gp and it will not sell for lowest then you could say its 200gp in pure junk. This happens a lot with merchanted items a lot. I don't get this rant at all. Are you ranting because you can't buy rares or because you can't create junk to sell rares? [hide=Drops]Dragon Axe x11Berserker Ring x9Warrior Ring x8SeercullDragon MedDragon Boots x4 - all less then 30 kcGodsword Shard (bandos)Granite Maul x 3Solo only - doesn't include barrows[/hide][hide=Stats][/hide] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJE03 Posted November 18, 2009 Author Share Posted November 18, 2009 Are you ranting because you can't buy rares or because you can't create junk to sell rares? I am ranting because I am unable to sell my rares for prices people are willing to buy them at. [spoiler=Stats:]Updated December 22, 2011: Total level - 1442 - 170M+ XP , Combat level - 115Combat skills: Attack - 90, Defence - 99 (24.45m+ XP), Strength - 90, Constitution - 99 (16.42M+ XP) Ranged - 99 (13.32M+ XP), Prayer - 60, Magic - 99 (13.25M+ XP)Non-Combat skills: Cooking - 99 (13.80M+ XP), Woodcutting - 99 (31.95M+ XP), Fishing - 90, Firemaking - 99 (24.82M+), Crafting - 90, Smithing - 90, Mining - 85, Runecrafting - 60, Dungeoneering - 85 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gin_and_Tonic Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 Are you ranting because you can't buy rares or because you can't create junk to sell rares? I am ranting because I am unable to sell my rares for prices people are willing to buy them at. Then either; a) get membersB ) keep themc) sell them on GE c) stop fuelling junk trading and price manipulation by trying to sell them above GE price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qeltar Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 The "junk" phenomenon represents the RS equivalent of a black market. Black markets *always* spring up when free trade is inhibited. Many people who understand economics predicted that this would happen the day the GE was released. Unfortunately, Jagex doesn't seem to care about the mess the GE has made of free trade, and how that in turn has made the game less interesting for a lot of people. It's been nearly two years now, and there are many ways they could improve things a great deal, but they don't. Qeltar, aka Charles KozierokWebmaster, RuneScoop - Premium RuneScape Information for Expert Players -- Now Free!Featuring the Ultimate Guide to Dungeoneering -- everything you need to know to get the most of the new skill! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaffy1 Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 The "junk" phenomenon represents the RS equivalent of a black market. Black markets *always* spring up when free trade is inhibited. Many people who understand economics predicted that this would happen the day the GE was released. Unfortunately, Jagex doesn't seem to care about the mess the GE has made of free trade, and how that in turn has made the game less interesting for a lot of people. It's been nearly two years now, and there are many ways they could improve things a great deal, but they don't.You forget why the Grand Exchange and trade limits were implemented. It is not that Jagex doesn't care, it's simply that they CANNOT put things back to the way they were. RWT would flourish once more and that would be the end of Jagex. You might also want to consider good things about the Grand Exchange. Also, junk is a wide range of items. Personally I sell what I consider junk when lending items, or simply just ask trade limits. To me, junk is black dragonhide armour or rune, finished products from skilling, or simply drops from monsters I'm too lazy to sell... At times stuff other players perceive as valuable, stuff other players buy. Junk as sold to people borrowing makes it cheaper for them and saves me trouble. Trade limits are a good thing, remember that. They effectively ended RWT, scamming, hacking, mass botting... Well, you get the idea. The trade limits in P2p are fair if one does a decent amount of basic Quests they'd need to do to unlock the game anyway. Of course there is a flip side (in my opinion minor), but the advantages outweigh the disadvantages. Tip.It Website Crew Leader[hide=Quotes]I love it how Jafje comes outa nowhere and answers my questionsHehe now we know what real life does...drugs, drugs, more drugs. Thank god we are addicted to something that won't kill us. [/hide] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meili Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 Yeah this is my problem now. It's not like I have or am willing to get 2 billion worth of junk (that's how much I would need) so I can sell my items. Honestly, why can't Jagex allow free trade for *some* people? I've been playing for 8 freaking years and never a black mark with over 120 million exp. :thumbsup: The Runescape Wilderness - Meili's Blog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJE03 Posted November 24, 2009 Author Share Posted November 24, 2009 Yeah this is my problem now. It's not like I have or am willing to get 2 billion worth of junk (that's how much I would need) so I can sell my items. Honestly, why can't Jagex allow free trade for *some* people? I've been playing for 8 freaking years and never a black mark with over 120 million exp. :thumbsup:Good point meili. I totally agree, I have been playing for at least 4-5 years, 130m+ total exp. without a black mark and still am not trusted with the ability to trade freely? [spoiler=Stats:]Updated December 22, 2011: Total level - 1442 - 170M+ XP , Combat level - 115Combat skills: Attack - 90, Defence - 99 (24.45m+ XP), Strength - 90, Constitution - 99 (16.42M+ XP) Ranged - 99 (13.32M+ XP), Prayer - 60, Magic - 99 (13.25M+ XP)Non-Combat skills: Cooking - 99 (13.80M+ XP), Woodcutting - 99 (31.95M+ XP), Fishing - 90, Firemaking - 99 (24.82M+), Crafting - 90, Smithing - 90, Mining - 85, Runecrafting - 60, Dungeoneering - 85 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AgingMiser Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 Yeah this is my problem now. It's not like I have or am willing to get 2 billion worth of junk (that's how much I would need) so I can sell my items. Honestly, why can't Jagex allow free trade for *some* people? I've been playing for 8 freaking years and never a black mark with over 120 million exp. :thumbsup:Good point meili. I totally agree, I have been playing for at least 4-5 years, 130m+ total exp. without a black mark and still am not trusted with the ability to trade freely? You're a mod Nje. >_< And yeah, Jagex has stated that they sanction junk trading for the sole reason that junk trading creates a market for junk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaffy1 Posted November 27, 2009 Share Posted November 27, 2009 [And yeah, Jagex has stated that they sanction junk trading for the sole reason that junk trading creates a market for junk. They can't sanction that since everyone's definition of junk isn't identical. Tip.It Website Crew Leader[hide=Quotes]I love it how Jafje comes outa nowhere and answers my questionsHehe now we know what real life does...drugs, drugs, more drugs. Thank god we are addicted to something that won't kill us. [/hide] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numer0_un0 Posted November 28, 2009 Share Posted November 28, 2009 [And yeah, Jagex has stated that they sanction junk trading for the sole reason that junk trading creates a market for junk. They can't sanction that since everyone's definition of junk isn't identical. Can schools not sanction the correct spelling of 'grey' or 'gray' because everyone's definition of the ideal spelling isn't identical? Of course they can. :smile: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaffy1 Posted February 13, 2010 Share Posted February 13, 2010 [And yeah, Jagex has stated that they sanction junk trading for the sole reason that junk trading creates a market for junk. They can't sanction that since everyone's definition of junk isn't identical. Can schools not sanction the correct spelling of 'grey' or 'gray' because everyone's definition of the ideal spelling isn't identical? Of course they can. :smile: Actually, as long as you apply officially correct spelling, they cannot sanction you for it (officially). That's like claiming "armor" is the correct spelling of "armour" while "armour" is not.For the record, I consider "armor" as wrong, but acknowledge that it is American english. Therefore Americans cannot be sanctioned for spelling "armor". As for "junk items", the Grand exchange is based on supply and demand. Honestly I don't understand why people bother buying junk on the Grand Exchange for med or minimum prices. They cannot sanction junk trading because of my earlier argument. So I just lent my armadyl chestplate out while selling black mystic, vials and I bought a few merched willow roots at min to add to my junk.. Yes Jagex, now please sanction me. Rofl. Also, why on earth would anyone need 2 billion or 384 gazillion Gp in junk? Tip.It Website Crew Leader[hide=Quotes]I love it how Jafje comes outa nowhere and answers my questionsHehe now we know what real life does...drugs, drugs, more drugs. Thank god we are addicted to something that won't kill us. [/hide] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harakiri Posted February 13, 2010 Share Posted February 13, 2010 Bump to the extreme? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xpandax Posted February 14, 2010 Share Posted February 14, 2010 The "junk" phenomenon represents the RS equivalent of a black market. Black markets *always* spring up when free trade is inhibited. Many people who understand economics predicted that this would happen the day the GE was released. Unfortunately, Jagex doesn't seem to care about the mess the GE has made of free trade, and how that in turn has made the game less interesting for a lot of people. It's been nearly two years now, and there are many ways they could improve things a great deal, but they don't.You forget why the Grand Exchange and trade limits were implemented. It is not that Jagex doesn't care, it's simply that they CANNOT put things back to the way they were. RWT would flourish once more and that would be the end of Jagex. You might also want to consider good things about the Grand Exchange. Also, junk is a wide range of items. Personally I sell what I consider junk when lending items, or simply just ask trade limits. To me, junk is black dragonhide armour or rune, finished products from skilling, or simply drops from monsters I'm too lazy to sell... At times stuff other players perceive as valuable, stuff other players buy. Junk as sold to people borrowing makes it cheaper for them and saves me trouble. Trade limits are a good thing, remember that. They effectively ended RWT, scamming, hacking, mass botting... Well, you get the idea. The trade limits in P2p are fair if one does a decent amount of basic Quests they'd need to do to unlock the game anyway. Of course there is a flip side (in my opinion minor), but the advantages outweigh the disadvantages. RWT is still possible and still happens... the only reason it isn't on the scale that it once was is because most of the people who did RWT in runescape hate the direction that the game has gone in and won't waste their money on this game anymore. RWT has shifted mo re towards buying and selling accounts themselves, even though it is still possible to buy just GP, these sites are legit and won't even get you banned. I've watched people i know in real life RWT... it isn't complicated and they dont get in trouble. There are alot more bots currently then you clearly realize.... just because people who bot aren't as obvious as the gold farmers does not make them non existent I've played since 2001 and i can tell you that never in any other time of Runescape History have I seen so many "amateur" botters. that is people botting their own accounts for themselves... the sick thing is, that jagex cannot detect any of these bots by software alone, and unless the botter is a complete idiot or a 13 year old with 0 patience and is botting 20+ hours a day, they wont get banned for it. The game hasn't gotten a whole lot better than it was before the RWT updates, the shady parts of runescape have just gone behind closed doors so to speak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bladewing Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 [And yeah, Jagex has stated that they sanction junk trading for the sole reason that junk trading creates a market for junk. They can't sanction that since everyone's definition of junk isn't identical. Can schools not sanction the correct spelling of 'grey' or 'gray' because everyone's definition of the ideal spelling isn't identical? Of course they can. :smile:Any item can be junk. It just has to be falling in price. Rune nails fell 10gp last update? It's junk.Mint cakes fell 1000 gp last update? It's junk.Abyssal whip fell 100k last update? It's junk.Armadyl Godsword fell 1m last update? It's junk. Unless you want to make trading against the rules, I suggest you drop your complaint. The real culprit here is price restrictions. Junk trading is the resulting black market. How to Chin Nechyraels for fast XP and profit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funnisam Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 [And yeah, Jagex has stated that they sanction junk trading for the sole reason that junk trading creates a market for junk. They can't sanction that since everyone's definition of junk isn't identical. Can schools not sanction the correct spelling of 'grey' or 'gray' because everyone's definition of the ideal spelling isn't identical? Of course they can. :smile: Prescriptivism in language just doesn't work. You try to place a system on language other than grammar, and it falls apart. Different groups will always change grammar, semantics, lexis, etc. English: Sanitise, American English: Sanitize. Even proven by searching the first option in google, where the American based company will try to correct your lexis, when in fact it is actually the correct standard form of English. Sorry had to be a smart arse :cry: :cry: Most Difficult Quiz Rare drops; tzhaar-ket-om: 6 tzhaar-xil-ak: 4 tzhaar-xil-ek: 4 tzhaar-mej-tal: 1 Obsidian cape: 18 Dragon Plateskirt: 4 Dragon Platelegs: 7 Sq Shield left half: 1 Dragon Boots: 1 Dragon Medium Helmet: 11 Draconic Visage: 1 Zamorak Spear: 3 Steam Battlestaff: 1 Godsword Shards: 3 Bandos Chestplate: 1 Bandos Tassets: 1 Abyssal Whip: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalafai Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 Actually, as long as you apply officially correct spelling, they cannot sanction you for it (officially). That's like claiming "armor" is the correct spelling of "armour" while "armour" is not.For the record, I consider "armor" as wrong, but acknowledge that it is American english. Therefore Americans cannot be sanctioned for spelling "armor". They can, even if your reference the school's own official dictionary for it. I spent half of third grade fighting the power over this. They responded by entering me in remedial special ed courses for the next 9 years. Remedial FOR special ed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meili Posted February 19, 2010 Share Posted February 19, 2010 Junk is bs. I don't understand why Jagex doesn't just allow the GE to fluctuate more for rares. Or manually fix the pice every week. The Runescape Wilderness - Meili's Blog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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