Crushing and stabbing weapons almost useless (round 2)

[Youmu]

I am not a member

 

This is where I stopped reading.

P2P or not, Quelmotz still has say about Crush/Stab weapons being useless.

 

In F2P, Rune Scimitars, Rune Longswords, etc slash weapons are the only used ones. In P2P, Abyssal Whips, Godswords, etc slash weapons are also the only used ones.

[quelmotz]

What does he want me to do anyway? If I talk about members' slash weapons he'll probably flame me for talking about what I've never used, and if I don't he'll flame me for being a non-member noob and not covering everything in the post or something like that... :roll:

[canadiansmurf]

Most people only use dragon dagger P++ for the SPECIAL ATTACK, not the dagger's "normal" attack itself. Yeah sure you can claim its a use but still slash overpower just about everything else.

 

 

Not true. One strategy is to poison your opponent before switching to a different weapon.

Special attacks and poison are seperate.

[qeltar]

The problem isn't that crush and stab don't have uses -- they do. The problem is that most of the "high profile" weapons are either slash only, or are superior on slash.

 

When using Dharoks, I've found that the crush setting works better than slash on a *lot* of monsters.

 

I clearly stated that crush and stab weapons DO HAVE USES, but slashing weapons are much more useful, and probably have a few times the uses compared to the two of them added together.

 

Define "a lot". Maybe it was just coincidence on some, or maybe personal gut feeling made your opinion biased? I highly doubt 75% or so of monsters can be killed more efficiently using crush/stab compared to slash. On the contrary, it's the opposite IMO.

I've spent literally hundreds of hours Dharoking monsters. Crush is my default setting when using that set. I can't prove definitively that it is better in every case but most of the time it is at least as good, if not better.

[quelmotz]

The problem isn't that crush and stab don't have uses -- they do. The problem is that most of the "high profile" weapons are either slash only, or are superior on slash.

 

When using Dharoks, I've found that the crush setting works better than slash on a *lot* of monsters.

 

I clearly stated that crush and stab weapons DO HAVE USES, but slashing weapons are much more useful, and probably have a few times the uses compared to the two of them added together.

 

Define "a lot". Maybe it was just coincidence on some, or maybe personal gut feeling made your opinion biased? I highly doubt 75% or so of monsters can be killed more efficiently using crush/stab compared to slash. On the contrary, it's the opposite IMO.

I've spent literally hundreds of hours Dharoking monsters. Crush is my default setting when using that set. I can't prove definitively that it is better in every case but most of the time it is at least as good, if not better.

 

What is an experiment if you've never tried slash to see how effective it is? :roll:

[quelmotz]

Most people only use dragon dagger P++ for the SPECIAL ATTACK, not the dagger's "normal" attack itself. Yeah sure you can claim its a use but still slash overpower just about everything else.

 

 

Not true. One strategy is to poison your opponent before switching to a different weapon.

Special attacks and poison are seperate.

 

If I poll 1000 people, how many would rate a weapon as a useful one because of the fact that poison can be applied onto it?

[Zachneap]

Most people only use dragon dagger P++ for the SPECIAL ATTACK, not the dagger's "normal" attack itself. Yeah sure you can claim its a use but still slash overpower just about everything else.

 

 

Not true. One strategy is to poison your opponent before switching to a different weapon.

Special attacks and poison are seperate.

 

If I poll 1000 people, how many would rate a weapon as a useful one because of the fact that poison can be applied onto it?

The dragon dagger is an exception to the daggers suck rule... But it an auxiliary weapon. Players only use it if their regular weapon has a bad spec or no spec. (Whip, barrows weapon, d scim)

And even then it usually isn't worth bothering with unless you are fighting something hard to beat, where poison helps.

 

I don't bother with it because it has a lower accuracy and power.

[quelmotz]

Most people only use dragon dagger P++ for the SPECIAL ATTACK, not the dagger's "normal" attack itself. Yeah sure you can claim its a use but still slash overpower just about everything else.

 

 

Not true. One strategy is to poison your opponent before switching to a different weapon.

Special attacks and poison are seperate.

 

If I poll 1000 people, how many would rate a weapon as a useful one because of the fact that poison can be applied onto it?

The dragon dagger is an exception to the daggers suck rule... But it an auxiliary weapon. Players only use it if their regular weapon has a bad spec or no spec. (Whip, barrows weapon, d scim)

And even then it usually isn't worth bothering with unless you are fighting something hard to beat, where poison helps.

 

I don't bother with it because it has a lower accuracy and power.

 

Exactly. The dragon dagger, although decently useful as far as daggers go, is still an "optional" weapon, a good-to-have, not a must-have, unlike slashing weapons which are almost compulsory for 99% of PvM or PvP in RuneScape.

[quelmotz]

Any comments?

[Sir_Froobie]

I'd say its pretty balanced, pretty much every monster in-game is weak to a specific type of attack and only about 1/3 are slash.

 

Yes on most is a minor difference, but its still a difference. I mean slash does fine on dragons, but stab does better.

 

Also msot player armours are weakest to crush.

If that were true then everyone would be using warhammers in pking, which clearly isn't the case right now.

 

And about your statement on monsters, not quite. People still use slash weapons on pretty much any monster apart from waterfiends, metal dragons, etc.

 

I agree that the weapons and armor should have more balance. It's ridiculous to see the F2P world with rune scimitars and full rune armor all the time. They're literally clones of each other! <_<

 

 

 

I disagree people you scimatars in pking because of the speed, The rune baxe is clearly the better weapon for crushing a opponents rune armour. Although you hit substantially slower. So If your using a scim your hitting say 18's on average (lol kinda silly with the time's you hit 0's lets leave that for another debate or loook up i spilli i), but with a rune battle axe you hit 22's or so but at 75% the speed of a scim. So you have a kid who fails constantly eating up and saving, because he beleave's he will get ko'd. In f2p its nearly impossible to get koi'd without being piled buy a decent number of opt usally 180+. althoguh very easy if your not pay attention. but even so ppl that sit there eating aren't fighting back so your hitting there not, actually helps you out although no pure or "pker" *** cough cough omg*** will not call you a saver newb. but than again look at the dumbness of pker's.

 

 

Edit: Thought I'd add somthing else in. Forget who but the person who uses the guthans spear, Is right the spears have quite a usefulness in many pvm situations. Aquanite and waterfiends mostly, although if you look the guthans spear has quite a decent amount of slash bonus to it and crush, although switch to the z spear, and almost nothing in slash and crush but amazing in stab. with my normal slayer setup using my guthan's and veracs bassard and plateskirt, fire cape, warrior ring, yeah i know should get a zerker. my guthan warspear has roughtly +115 in slash aand 100 i believe in crush. now switch to z spaer and ihave around +89 in slash but +115 in stab and around the same in crush. althoguh i find the z spaer to be slower odd i know maybe just the animation. seems like i hit from the side with z spaer like my charctter steps backs and does a feint bb4 hitting. and guthans just swings it in slash(almost like the z spear spec) minus flashy lines lol :thumbsup:

Edited December 20, 2009 by patplays852

[Sir_Kurity]

Well, i haven't read any of the responses in this thread, im far to lazy. But here are my 2 cents.

 

Almost EVERY monster, (and armor) should have insane defense levels for one of magic, ranged, stabbing, crushing, or slashing, or, preferably a combination of those. And to make the slow weapons not useless (think 2h) attack values should be made considerably higher on those, and defence levels on most monsters should also rise.

 

In contrast, almost every monster should have, naturally, a weakness. In which it is far more easier to hit. And may even grant a damage bonus if you use applicable weapon.

 

Of course, for an armorless mob who is easy to hit, whip/scimmy would still come out on top, and who really cares, i dont mind if they have the highest DPS on some/most monsters, it still gives crushing and stabbing weapons a use, unlike now where there are only a few monsters where its worth using something other than a scimmy/whip.

 

This would leave whip/scimmy still pretty much the best all round weapon for DPS, and shouldn't cause undue price changes, but would still give crushing and stabbing weapons a use.

 

For example. Things like skeletons should be pretty darn impossible to hit with ranged, stabbing weapons, and slashing weapons. But should be particularly weak against magic and crushing.

 

Things like knights should again, take very little damage from slashing, but increased chance to be hit with stabbing, and particularly crushing.

[quelmotz]

Well, i haven't read any of the responses in this thread, im far to lazy. But here are my 2 cents.

 

Almost EVERY monster, (and armor) should have insane defense levels for one of magic, ranged, stabbing, crushing, or slashing, or, preferably a combination of those. And to make the slow weapons not useless (think 2h) attack values should be made considerably higher on those, and defence levels on most monsters should also rise.

 

In contrast, almost every monster should have, naturally, a weakness. In which it is far more easier to hit. And may even grant a damage bonus if you use applicable weapon.

 

Of course, for an armorless mob who is easy to hit, whip/scimmy would still come out on top, and who really cares, i dont mind if they have the highest DPS on some/most monsters, it still gives crushing and stabbing weapons a use, unlike now where there are only a few monsters where its worth using something other than a scimmy/whip.

 

This would leave whip/scimmy still pretty much the best all round weapon for DPS, and shouldn't cause undue price changes, but would still give crushing and stabbing weapons a use.

 

For example. Things like skeletons should be pretty darn impossible to hit with ranged, stabbing weapons, and slashing weapons. But should be particularly weak against magic and crushing.

 

Things like knights should again, take very little damage from slashing, but increased chance to be hit with stabbing, and particularly crushing.

 

Yup. That was kind of what I was trying to say. Stabbing a demon isn't going to do much damage, but slashing it will. Trying to stab/slash a stone golem isn't going to be highly effective, but crushing it or blasting it with magic will be effective.

 

I disagree people you scimatars in pking because of the speed, The rune baxe is clearly the better weapon for crushing a opponents rune armour. Although you hit substantially slower. So If your using a scim your hitting say 18's on average (lol kinda silly with the time's you hit 0's lets leave that for another debate or loook up i spilli i), but with a rune battle axe you hit 22's or so but at 75% the speed of a scim. So you have a kid who fails constantly eating up and saving, because he beleave's he will get ko'd. In f2p its nearly impossible to get koi'd without being piled buy a decent number of opt usally 180+. althoguh very easy if your not pay attention. but even so ppl that sit there eating aren't fighting back so your hitting there not, actually helps you out although no pure or "pker" *** cough cough omg*** will not call you a saver newb. but than again look at the dumbness of pker's.

 

 

Edit: Thought I'd add somthing else in. Forget who but the person who uses the guthans spear, Is right the spears have quite a usefulness in many pvm situations. Aquanite and waterfiends mostly, although if you look the guthans spear has quite a decent amount of slash bonus to it and crush, although switch to the z spear, and almost nothing in slash and crush but amazing in stab. with my normal slayer setup using my guthan's and veracs bassard and plateskirt, fire cape, warrior ring, yeah i know should get a zerker. my guthan warspear has roughtly +115 in slash aand 100 i believe in crush. now switch to z spaer and ihave around +89 in slash but +115 in stab and around the same in crush. althoguh i find the z spaer to be slower odd i know maybe just the animation. seems like i hit from the side with z spaer like my charctter steps backs and does a fe

 

Use a spellcheck for goodness's sake. And learn how to paragraph properly. I can barely read what you're saying.

 

I don't know what the [cabbage] are you talking about in the first paragraph. So rune battleaxe hits 22s or so, at 1 hit per 3.6 seconds. Rune scimitar hits 18s or so at 1 hit per 2.4 second. Rune scimitar hits 1.5 times faster than the battleaxe, so it'll do 1.5x18=27. Much more than the battleaxe. Even if we assume scimitar only hits 16-17 and battleaxe hits 23-24, the rune scimitar still hits more.

 

So the only use for battleaxe is as a "KO" weapon - until the rune 2h comes in.

 

And about the second paragraph: Your point being? I've already stated that there ARE some monster exceptions like waterfiends and such where crushing/stabbing excels. However what I'm saying is the lack of enough monsters that are resistant to slash but weaker against stab/crush to make crushing/stabbing weapons more useful.

[Gudi]

Or buy a better weapon and quit [bleep]ing.

[Sir_Froobie]

Well, i haven't read any of the responses in this thread, im far to lazy. But here are my 2 cents.

 

Almost EVERY monster, (and armor) should have insane defense levels for one of magic, ranged, stabbing, crushing, or slashing, or, preferably a combination of those. And to make the slow weapons not useless (think 2h) attack values should be made considerably higher on those, and defence levels on most monsters should also rise.

 

In contrast, almost every monster should have, naturally, a weakness. In which it is far more easier to hit. And may even grant a damage bonus if you use applicable weapon.

 

Of course, for an armorless mob who is easy to hit, whip/scimmy would still come out on top, and who really cares, i dont mind if they have the highest DPS on some/most monsters, it still gives crushing and stabbing weapons a use, unlike now where there are only a few monsters where its worth using something other than a scimmy/whip.

 

This would leave whip/scimmy still pretty much the best all round weapon for DPS, and shouldn't cause undue price changes, but would still give crushing and stabbing weapons a use.

 

For example. Things like skeletons should be pretty darn impossible to hit with ranged, stabbing weapons, and slashing weapons. But should be particularly weak against magic and crushing.

 

Things like knights should again, take very little damage from slashing, but increased chance to be hit with stabbing, and particularly crushing.

 

Yup. That was kind of what I was trying to say. Stabbing a demon isn't going to do much damage, but slashing it will. Trying to stab/slash a stone golem isn't going to be highly effective, but crushing it or blasting it with magic will be effective.

 

I disagree people you scimatars in pking because of the speed, The rune baxe is clearly the better weapon for crushing a opponents rune armour. Although you hit substantially slower. So If your using a scim your hitting say 18's on average (lol kinda silly with the time's you hit 0's lets leave that for another debate or loook up i spilli i), but with a rune battle axe you hit 22's or so but at 75% the speed of a scim. So you have a kid who fails constantly eating up and saving, because he beleave's he will get ko'd. In f2p its nearly impossible to get ko'd without being piled buy a decent number of opt usually 180+. althoguh very easy if your not pay attention. but even so ppl that sit there eating aren't fighting back so your hitting there not, actually helps you out although no pure or "pker" *** cough cough omg*** will not call you a saver newb. but than again look at the dumbness of pker's.

 

 

Edit: Thought I'd add something else in. Forget who but the person who uses the guthans spear, Is right the spears have quite a usefulness in many pvm situations. Aquanite and waterfiends mostly, although if you look the guthans spear has quite a decent amount of slash bonus to it and crush, although switch to the z spear, and almost nothing in slash and crush but amazing in stab. with my normal slayer setup using my guthan's and veracs bassard and plateskirt, fire cape, warrior ring, yeah i know should get a zerker. my guthan warspear has roughtly +115 in slash aand 100 i believe in crush. now switch to z spaer and ihave around +89 in slash but +115 in stab and around the same in crush. althoguh i find the z spaer to be slower odd i know maybe just the animation. seems like i hit from the side with z spaer like my charctter steps backs and does a fe

 

Use a spellcheck for goodness's sake. And learn how to paragraph properly. I can barely read what you're saying.

 

I don't know what the [cabbage] are you talking about in the first paragraph. So rune battleaxe hits 22s or so, at 1 hit per 3.6 seconds. Rune scimitar hits 18s or so at 1 hit per 2.4 second. Rune scimitar hits 1.5 times faster than the battleaxe, so it'll do 1.5x18=27. Much more than the battleaxe. Even if we assume scimitar only hits 16-17 and battleaxe hits 23-24, the rune scimitar still hits more.

 

So the only use for battleaxe is as a "KO" weapon - until the rune 2h comes in.

 

And about the second paragraph: Your point being? I've already stated that there ARE some monster exceptions like waterfiends and such where crushing/stabbing excels. However what I'm saying is the lack of enough monsters that are resistant to slash but weaker against stab/crush to make crushing/stabbing weapons more useful.

 

 

Exactly the only Reason the Scimatar is used in pking is overtime it deals more damage and hits faster. The battle axe's is alot better for use against melee armour. If you hit decent amount more often people will panic and eat. waste there food as there not dealing damage against you and you kill them. and TBH, i love the idiots who use a r2h against me I'm 125 in f2p, If you put up a r2h i'm in full rune berzerker and rune gaunt you won't hit through that, you lose your shield and i'll wreak you with 15%'s. But Than the First paragraph was disagreeing with the person I quoted. Not with you, maybe you should read the post. And im sorry if I mistyped a few words, i posted that at 3am, was up for about 18 hours. little tired, but if you look at the second paragraph, again doesn't realte to anything your saying i was talking about the person who mentioned the guthan's war spear. I'm sorry if i didn't quote him. And was mentioning that 2 weapons comparably with the same requirments to weild have large stat difference's although wait your att str and def are all like 65, you can't wield barrows, or a whip. I almost thought for a second you had trained solo with the whips aggressive slash because its control'd. and I'm kinda confused because I've only talked about member items many of which you can not use. Don't see any point of you claiming knowledge of them. also about the rune do you even pk? you should know the scim is used for speed, nothing else. Than again I'm sure have the members divinity could ko you. BTW divinity is a low requirement Pure clan. only need like 70 str to join.

[foursideking]

well...this guy has clearly forgotten some of the "godly" items that jagex has released to make it balanced. Zammy spear/barrelchest anchor more or less end this arguement. Both of them may be 2h weopens, but they are like the godswords of crush/stab weopens....check and mate

[Kalafai]

except the anchor is more along the lines of lvl 50 weapons like the brine sabre when it comes down to it, you'll be pumping out more crush with the Zammy spear than with it.

[quelmotz]

Or buy a better weapon and quit [bleep]ing.

 

How the hell does this contribute to the discussion? I have plenty of money, just nothing better to access in F2P. And even at higher levels slashing weapons are still more powerful.

 

well...this guy has clearly forgotten some of the "godly" items that jagex has released to make it balanced. Zammy spear/barrelchest anchor more or less end this arguement. Both of them may be 2h weopens, but they are like the godswords of crush/stab weopens....check and mate

 

[cabbage].

 

I've never used the barrelchest anchor or the zamorak spear, but how often do you hear people talking positively about the anchor compared to the godswords?

 

And the zamorak spear has a stab bonus of 80+ or so. The godsword has a slash bonus of +132. The godsword:zamorak spear hit rate is 2:3 (i.e. zamorak spear hits thrice in the time it takes for the godsword to hit twice). Not very close in terms of power if you ask me.

 

Exactly the only Reason the Scimatar is used in pking is overtime it deals more damage and hits faster. The battle axe's is alot better for use against melee armour. If you hit decent amount more often people will panic and eat. waste there food as there not dealing damage against you and you kill them. and TBH, i love the idiots who use a r2h against me I'm 125 in f2p, If you put up a r2h i'm in full rune berzerker and rune gaunt you won't hit through that, you lose your shield and i'll wreak you with 15%'s. But Than the First paragraph was disagreeing with the person I quoted. Not with you, maybe you should read the post. And im sorry if I mistyped a few words, i posted that at 3am, was up for about 18 hours. little tired, but if you look at the second paragraph, again doesn't realte to anything your saying i was talking about the person who mentioned the guthan's war spear. I'm sorry if i didn't quote him. And was mentioning that 2 weapons comparably with the same requirments to weild have large stat difference's although wait your att str and def are all like 65, you can't wield barrows, or a whip. I almost thought for a second you had trained solo with the whips aggressive slash because its control'd. and I'm kinda confused because I've only talked about member items many of which you can not use. Don't see any point of you claiming knowledge of them. also about the rune do you even pk? you should know the scim is used for speed, nothing else. Than again I'm sure have the members divinity could ko you. BTW divinity is a low requirement Pure clan. only need like 70 str to join.

 

Holy [cabbage] are you trying to cause people to go blind? Paragraph the stuff for god's sake. Seriously.

 

From what I can see...

 

Scimitar is for speed? Sorry, you mean it's for practically EVERY way of killing other than KOing, and KOing is a minor use. I might not pk much, but clan wars isn't far from PKing. It's the same killing mechanism and all that. Just no risk.

 

I only discussed F2P weapons in the main post. You were the one who digressed to member weaponry. So do you want me to make an ignorant reply or don't reply at all?

[UserOnRS]

 

NO!! That'll make RuneScape ridiculously illogical. How the heck could somebody hit with a warhammer as fast as a scimitar or dagger? And furthermore warhammers have better stats except the stats are made less useful due to its slow speed.

 

You're talking about logicality in Runescape? Lol...

 

Just because RS isn't logical presently isn't an excuse to aggravate the illogicality.

How is it illogical that a Warhammer can have same speed as a Scimitar?

So apparently you have not heard about the laws of inertia and mass, balance means nothing to you and everything is light as a feather.

Rune scimitars weigh more than rune warhammers. :P

 

There's no point having warhammers and battleaxes etc as there's no uses for them when most monsters are so weak it doesn't matter what attack style you use, and they are slower. The slower speed should mean that they are considerably stronger, but unfortunately aren't. It's good in a way though because it means F2P don't fill their bank with tons of weapons and armour.

[quelmotz]

 

NO!! That'll make RuneScape ridiculously illogical. How the heck could somebody hit with a warhammer as fast as a scimitar or dagger? And furthermore warhammers have better stats except the stats are made less useful due to its slow speed.

 

You're talking about logicality in Runescape? Lol...

 

Just because RS isn't logical presently isn't an excuse to aggravate the illogicality.

How is it illogical that a Warhammer can have same speed as a Scimitar?

So apparently you have not heard about the laws of inertia and mass, balance means nothing to you and everything is light as a feather.

Rune scimitars weigh more than rune warhammers. :P

 

There's no point having warhammers and battleaxes etc as there's no uses for them when most monsters are so weak it doesn't matter what attack style you use, and they are slower. The slower speed should mean that they are considerably stronger, but unfortunately aren't. It's good in a way though because it means F2P don't fill their bank with tons of weapons and armour.

 

Seriously...I have around 10 empty slots in my bank, and that's counting all the "trash" - holiday items and such that can be retrieved from Diango even after being thrown away.