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Big_Stingman

Haiti Earthquake

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As a nation, I'd say Haiti no longer exists. It's supported entirely by aid at this point.


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Haiti got hit by another earthquake! This one was a 6.1 :o

 

Poor haiti

 

It was an aftershock, but at that magnitude it might as well of been another earthquake.


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Man talk about bad luck...no one deserves to be hit by an earthquake, let alone another aftershock almost as powerful.


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Man talk about bad luck...no one deserves to be hit by an earthquake, let alone another aftershock almost as powerful.

 

Well not almost as powerful. The scale is a base 10 logarithmic scale, which means a 7.0 earthquake is 10 times as much as a 6.0.


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Man talk about bad luck...no one deserves to be hit by an earthquake, let alone another aftershock almost as powerful.

 

Well not almost as powerful. The scale is a base 10 logarithmic scale, which means a 7.0 earthquake is 10 times as much as a 6.0.

 

Mk. Guess the 6.1 was nothing then...I still assume it would interrupt aid efforts. :sad:


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Man talk about bad luck...no one deserves to be hit by an earthquake, let alone another aftershock almost as powerful.

 

Well not almost as powerful. The scale is a base 10 logarithmic scale, which means a 7.0 earthquake is 10 times as much as a 6.0.

 

Mk. Guess the 6.1 was nothing then...I still assume it would interrupt aid efforts. :sad:

 

It definitely still is a bad earthquake, it's just not nearly as bad as the 7.0 one. The scale is just deceiving.


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I love how America sends out money & troops to help don't get me wrong i'm sympathetic, but where were the Haitians when Katrina hit?


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Where was America when Hurricane Katrini hit? Seriously though, what sort of contribution do you think Haiti could have possibly made to the Katrina relief effort?


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Where was America when Hurricane Katrini hit? Seriously though, what sort of contribution do you think Haiti could have possibly made to the Katrina relief effort?

We have been porting money into Haiti for years and where has it gone?


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Where was America when Hurricane Katrini hit? Seriously though, what sort of contribution do you think Haiti could have possibly made to the Katrina relief effort?

We have been porting money into Haiti for years and where has it gone?

 

France and the US ultimately made Haiti into what it is today (or was, before the earthquake - a poor, crime infested drug harbor) during colonial times.

 

Think of it like the guilt-responsibility relationship between Germany and Israel. It is bad PR for the US if they didn't keep helping them after using the land for enormous coffee, spice, cotton, manual slave labor etc. profits, and leaving the local population all alone with a corrupt hierarchy after they had collected worthwhile profits & deemed the exploitation to be no longer politically viable due to the negative response in their respective countries.

 

You are not responsible for what happened in the past, just as today's young Germans are not responsible for what happened in WW2 to jews, but the political and moral ground for continuing aid and 'reparation' money exists, and has been paid to Haiti ever since they gained independence. As a result of the earthquake it will probably continue almost indefinitely.

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For a lot of years Haiti was looted by foreigners and it's own leaders - foreiegn companies almost completely deforested Haiti (2% of the land is forrest) which destroyed the soil and ruined it's agriculture. For many years Haiti was ruled by one despot after another who were never keen to pass the aid money on to the people. Ultimately during the Cold War the various leaders of Haiti were bribed with aid money not to "go Red". On top of that, those same despots, especially Papa Doc, ran up huge debts on top of much of the $21Bn Haiti still owed to France for it's independence. Unfortunately, things haven't recovered since. Thankfully that has began to change since Haiti achieved democracy in the 90's but building an economy basically from the ground up takes time, I agree that the Haitian government has to do more to build it's economy but it won't happen overnight.

 

All that is an argument for another day though, what is happening right now is a humanitarian crisis that is being made much worse by the economic problems of Haiti. We can all argue about the long term building of Haiti's economy and how the US, EU, IMF and the World Bank should or shouldn't contribute. However, the fact of the matter is that there is a humanitarian crisis that needs to be sorted out and as much as I like to criticise America's foreign policy, you guys do have a great capacity to help in these situations


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and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.

- Aeschylus (525 BC - 456 BC)

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^ This is true. The responsibility of helping others who are devastated fall to all people economically stable enough to donate something, even if it's only a case of water or $10, every drop counts. Although we are citizens of our separate counties and have individual backgrounds, in time of need we must look upon ourselves as citizens of the world community and pull together to help those in need.

 

I was reading 2 interesting contradicting articles about the earthquake written by 2 Protestant ministers, one was an evangelist and the other was a Baptist I think. The evangelist was saying how the earthquake was God's punishment for the Haiti's "deal with the devil"(which refers to one instance were a bunch of Haitians made a sacrifice of a pig to there different gods prior to the expulsion of the French from Haiti to help them kick out the French and their "God of the whites", which many see as the Haitians made a deal with the devil) and it was a sign of the fury of God.

 

I find the Baptist's viewpoint even more interesting. That the earthquake was a blessing. Those who survived are just people. They were spared by God, and they have suffered the initial signal of Armageddon (as professed in the book of Revelation that it will be signaled by terrible earthquakes and then basically everyone goes to war), and because they have witnessed the first of the signs of the End-times, Armageddon shall take place in Haiti (I presume by Armageddon taking place in Haiti, he means the rapture).

 

No offense to anyone who might agree with either of those, but I find them quite... far fetched to say the least.


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Where was America when Hurricane Katrini hit? Seriously though, what sort of contribution do you think Haiti could have possibly made to the Katrina relief effort?

We have been porting money into Haiti for years and where has it gone?

 

France and the US ultimately made Haiti into what it is today (or was, before the earthquake - a poor, crime infested drug harbor) during colonial times.

 

Think of it like the guilt-responsibility relationship between Germany and Israel. It is bad PR for the US if they didn't keep helping them after using the land for enormous coffee, spice, cotton, manual slave labor etc. profits, and leaving the local population all alone with a corrupt hierarchy after they had collected worthwhile profits & deemed the exploitation to be no longer politically viable due to the negative response in their respective countries.

 

You are not responsible for what happened in the past, just as today's young Germans are not responsible for what happened in WW2 to jews, but the political and moral ground for continuing aid and 'reparation' money exists, and has been paid to Haiti ever since they gained independence. As a result of the earthquake it will probably continue almost indefinitely.

 

The deeds done in the past by others have NO bearing on my responsibility. Atlas shrugged, that is my basic stance on guilt. Honestly, although some support is of course a reasonable thing to give, it is the job of those in government office to care for US citizens, not the people of every nation in the world.

 

To the above: there is no such thing as "citizens of the world". We all live here, but we need to fix our own countries problems first.

 

The same goes for other parts of the world.


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Where was America when Hurricane Katrini hit? Seriously though, what sort of contribution do you think Haiti could have possibly made to the Katrina relief effort?

We have been porting money into Haiti for years and where has it gone?

 

France and the US ultimately made Haiti into what it is today (or was, before the earthquake - a poor, crime infested drug harbor) during colonial times.

 

Think of it like the guilt-responsibility relationship between Germany and Israel. It is bad PR for the US if they didn't keep helping them after using the land for enormous coffee, spice, cotton, manual slave labor etc. profits, and leaving the local population all alone with a corrupt hierarchy after they had collected worthwhile profits & deemed the exploitation to be no longer politically viable due to the negative response in their respective countries.

 

You are not responsible for what happened in the past, just as today's young Germans are not responsible for what happened in WW2 to jews, but the political and moral ground for continuing aid and 'reparation' money exists, and has been paid to Haiti ever since they gained independence. As a result of the earthquake it will probably continue almost indefinitely.

 

The deeds done in the past by others have NO bearing on my responsibility. Atlas shrugged, that is my basic stance on guilt. Honestly, although some support is of course a reasonable thing to give, it is the job of those in government office to care for US citizens, not the people of every nation in the world.

 

To the above: there is no such thing as "citizens of the world". We all live here, but we need to fix our own countries problems first.

 

The same goes for other parts of the world.

But here's the problem, smart [wagon]: a country's government doesn't care for its people and the United States immigration laws don't let them into the land of the free. Now what?


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Where was America when Hurricane Katrini hit? Seriously though, what sort of contribution do you think Haiti could have possibly made to the Katrina relief effort?

We have been porting money into Haiti for years and where has it gone?

 

France and the US ultimately made Haiti into what it is today (or was, before the earthquake - a poor, crime infested drug harbor) during colonial times.

 

Think of it like the guilt-responsibility relationship between Germany and Israel. It is bad PR for the US if they didn't keep helping them after using the land for enormous coffee, spice, cotton, manual slave labor etc. profits, and leaving the local population all alone with a corrupt hierarchy after they had collected worthwhile profits & deemed the exploitation to be no longer politically viable due to the negative response in their respective countries.

 

You are not responsible for what happened in the past, just as today's young Germans are not responsible for what happened in WW2 to jews, but the political and moral ground for continuing aid and 'reparation' money exists, and has been paid to Haiti ever since they gained independence. As a result of the earthquake it will probably continue almost indefinitely.

 

The deeds done in the past by others have NO bearing on my responsibility. Atlas shrugged, that is my basic stance on guilt. Honestly, although some support is of course a reasonable thing to give, it is the job of those in government office to care for US citizens, not the people of every nation in the world.

 

To the above: there is no such thing as "citizens of the world". We all live here, but we need to fix our own countries problems first.

The same goes for other parts of the world.

 

Your flawed school of thinking is what causes the world to be as hostile as it is. True, the duty of a government is to govern its own nation, but when you're a superpower like the USA who invades countries at will and takes sides on international disputes, but people like you then conveniently say we need not help anyone.

 

I am someone who hates to think there's some kind of score getting kept. You know, oh well we enslaved those people 400yrs ago, we best pay their great great great great grandchildren. No. First of all enslaving should have never been done, but it was an error and it is over. We no longer allow the owning of slaves. Therefore there is no responsibility to pay people who did no experience it. But, we must help those who are effected by things they simply cannot help.

 

You do not do something good because you 'owe' or expect anything. You do it to help those suffering. I did not say donate all that you own. Those who can afford it should give extra what they can spare to help those who don't have the bare necessities.

 

Lastly, contemplate if your [wagon] was in that earthquake. Would you complain if you receieved aid?


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Where was America when Hurricane Katrini hit? Seriously though, what sort of contribution do you think Haiti could have possibly made to the Katrina relief effort?

We have been porting money into Haiti for years and where has it gone?

 

France and the US ultimately made Haiti into what it is today (or was, before the earthquake - a poor, crime infested drug harbor) during colonial times.

 

Think of it like the guilt-responsibility relationship between Germany and Israel. It is bad PR for the US if they didn't keep helping them after using the land for enormous coffee, spice, cotton, manual slave labor etc. profits, and leaving the local population all alone with a corrupt hierarchy after they had collected worthwhile profits & deemed the exploitation to be no longer politically viable due to the negative response in their respective countries.

 

You are not responsible for what happened in the past, just as today's young Germans are not responsible for what happened in WW2 to jews, but the political and moral ground for continuing aid and 'reparation' money exists, and has been paid to Haiti ever since they gained independence. As a result of the earthquake it will probably continue almost indefinitely.

 

The deeds done in the past by others have NO bearing on my responsibility. Atlas shrugged, that is my basic stance on guilt. Honestly, although some support is of course a reasonable thing to give, it is the job of those in government office to care for US citizens, not the people of every nation in the world.

 

To the above: there is no such thing as "citizens of the world". We all live here, but we need to fix our own countries problems first.

 

The same goes for other parts of the world.

 

 

Where are you from?


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What most people don't know is they are LOADED with relief supplies down there right now.....it just isn't being distributed. Its sitting at the airport because roads are so bad. Having to helicopter lift it in. I've been put on alert, and might be headed down there to assist with these helicopter lifts very soon (my job in the military). Kinda want to go, boots on the ground actually knowing i'd be helping. Lol Haiti help for Katrina? Seriously? They can't help themselves....get real. Being the most powerful nation, IMO, it means we have a humanly obligation to help non threatening nations of lesser power.

 

I'd rather be in Haiti then in Afghanistan. Just saying. Its a much more just and beneficial cause.


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What most people don't know is they are LOADED with relief supplies down there right now.....it just isn't being distributed. Its sitting at the airport because roads are so bad. Having to helicopter lift it in. I've been put on alert, and might be headed down there to assist with these helicopter lifts very soon (my job in the military). Kinda want to go, boots on the ground actually knowing i'd be helping. Lol Haiti help for Katrina? Seriously? They can't help themselves....get real. Being the most powerful nation, IMO, it means we have a humanly obligation to help non threatening nations of lesser power.

 

I'd rather be in Haiti then in Afghanistan. Just saying. Its a much more just and beneficial cause.

 

I agree 100% with everything you said. Sadly it is bad that so many have sent relief efforts in the way of donations, but even when it gets to Haiti, it just isn't getting to the people who need it fast enough.

 

If you go I wish you luck.


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I've read over what people have said, but I'm just gonna kinda post something off topic. The thing that bugs me if all these people who are like "Oh I'm doing this and this for Haiti!" when I'm willing to bet that 80% of them couldn't find Haiti on a world map. I'm not saying Haiti doesn't deserve aid I'm just saying, they weren't exactly well off before this from what I've heard, so it just sort of seems like "hype" sympathy. if you still think I'm a heartless bastard, well I am but that's my opinion.


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I'm sure at more than 80% of us could find Haiti on a map. Maybe it's true for the general population though, who knows.

 

And I also agree with Kreig, which is strange since I seem to remember disagreeing with him on most things.


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I've read over what people have said, but I'm just gonna kinda post something off topic. The thing that bugs me if all these people who are like "Oh I'm doing this and this for Haiti!" when I'm willing to bet that 80% of them couldn't find Haiti on a world map. I'm not saying Haiti doesn't deserve aid I'm just saying, they weren't exactly well off before this from what I've heard, so it just sort of seems like "hype" sympathy. if you still think I'm a heartless bastard, well I am but that's my opinion.

 

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This is a situation that is disturbing many countries; and many are contributing much. What is disturbing is that the food and medicines are on the ground there yet is not getting to the people. The roads bad? I remember seeing news reports of haitians "taking" and getting beat for it. Seems to me if those Haitians can get in close enough to take it, why not let them have it; then use their trail to get it to others. I know the 82 Airbourne found a way to get some in to the people. Seems others could find a way as well. Sending money? What on earth for? I even saw a news article telling about Haitians having to "pay" to get a bus ride out. This makes no sense t ome. Why are they having to pay for anything?

 

Yes, I am sure my ignorance of the terraine is showing. I also believe if one of my loved ones was there, I "would" find a way to get items they needed to them if I had to carry it on my own back!

 

I am also wondering why that little country has been left in such a degraded state all those years? Where are the billionnaires? Why aren't businesses of some sort set up and those people paid a livable wage to work it? Yes, again, I am sure my own ignorance is showing here; but I also know if I had millions to spend in helping others I would find a way to do something that did not keep the Haitians victims. Oh yes, I am quite angry the needy are never heard until their situation is so disasterous it cannot "not" be heard. At least Tte president of Senegal is offering repatriation to Africa for every Haitian. I am wondering what he means when he says, "... if enough people are willing to be repatriated, an entire, fertile, region will be given to them."

 

I am also hearing that Haitians practice "voodoo". I have no idea if this is accurate or not; yet if it is, maybe such practices frighten outsiders and, if so, maybe this is why the Haitians have existed as long as they have in such a sad state. I feel so ignorant in that I am stuck in the country and only have the news and internet to tell me what is occurring in the world; and I have little trust in what such media states anymore.


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This is a situation that is disturbing many countries; and many are contributing much. What is disturbing is that the food and medicines are on the ground there yet is not getting to the people. The roads bad? I remember seeing news reports of haitians "taking" and getting beat for it. Seems to me if those Haitians can get in close enough to take it, why not let them have it; then use their trail to get it to others. I know the 82 Airbourne found a way to get some in to the people. Seems others could find a way as well. Sending money? What on earth for? I even saw a news article telling about Haitians having to "pay" to get a bus ride out. This makes no sense t ome. Why are they having to pay for anything?

 

Yes, I am sure my ignorance of the terraine is showing. I also believe if one of my loved ones was there, I "would" find a way to get items they needed to them if I had to carry it on my own back!

 

I am also wondering why that little country has been left in such a degraded state all those years? Where are the billionnaires? Why aren't businesses of some sort set up and those people paid a livable wage to work it? Yes, again, I am sure my own ignorance is showing here; but I also know if I had millions to spend in helping others I would find a way to do something that did not keep the Haitians victims. Oh yes, I am quite angry the needy are never heard until their situation is so disasterous it cannot "not" be heard. At least Tte president of Senegal is offering repatriation to Africa for every Haitian. I am wondering what he means when he says, "... if enough people are willing to be repatriated, an entire, fertile, region will be given to them."

 

I am also hearing that Haitians practice "voodoo". I have no idea if this is accurate or not; yet if it is, maybe such practices frighten outsiders and, if so, maybe this is why the Haitians have existed as long as they have in such a sad state. I feel so ignorant in that I am stuck in the country and only have the news and internet to tell me what is occurring in the world; and I have little trust in what such media states anymore.

 

Sending money is the most efficient way to help during a natural disaster. You don't send money straight to the affected of course, you send it to charity or relief agency. An individual sending food/relief supplies can be more trouble than it is worth since it is less efficient than sending a lot of food/relief supplies of the same type at the same time.

 

The president of Senegal is a little crazy. He is a 80+ year old dictator who runs a country barely better off than Haiti. Recently he built a $27 million statue using the governments funds, and since he was the "artistic director" who decided to spend a country's wealth on a statue when millions are starving there, he gets 35% of the money it generates from tourism. Yes, his personal bank account will be filled from profits from a government monument. He, like many other African dictators, is filling his personal bank account on the backs of citizens of the country. EDIT: Forgot the best part, the DPRK are the ones who built it :smile: .

 

80% of Haitians are Roman Catholic, another 16% are Protestant. So at least 96% of the population are christian of some sort. While it is true voodoo is practiced by roughly half the population it has little to do with quality of life.


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Oh yes, I do know sending money is easier for individuals. I just don't trust most of the organizations gathering it. The news has stated millions have been gathered; however, the news does not "follow the money" to see how much actually gets to the Haitians. I am thinking the amount of money gathered could have already purchased a nice sized island and the Haitians be air lifted to it. Then part of the money gathered could be constructing whatever is needed for survival.

 

I did not know that about the African President. Only the desparate would take him up on his offer; but then the Haitians are just that desparate. Sad!

 

If what you say about 96% of the population being christian of some sort then the half practicing voodoo surprises me.


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