So leveling Attack and Strength is a bad thing now? A warning for non-meleers

[Dirkmetal]

ITT: We talk about Turmoil, it's effects on the combat triangle, and how you choose to level your stats.

 

Turmoil, every meleers dream prayer. But what does this prayer mean to rangers and mages? Nothing good I can tell you, but this is not about the combat triangle. This is about mages, and rangers who choose to level their melee stats.

 

If you're a mage or ranger who's thinking of leveling your melee, I'm going to tell you now: Don't. The higher your attack and strength are when using mage or range, when you're fighting a meleer, the more chance he has of KO'ing you. All your attack and strength do is augment his ability's, wile not providing any help to your magic or range.

 

So don't level melee stats, except for maybe defense is you're not a pure. It will only come back bite you.

 

Also, meleers now need to think about how their melee stats are now working against them if they decide that they want to use range or mage in PvP.

 

Happy Turmoil-ing!

[baalboy5]

Even though you make good points, one thing to consider is that the curse requires 95 prayer. While most pures I've seen don't have theirs past protect melee.

Its like a REALLY rare chance you'll see a pure fight where 1 has turmoil

*FYI, the req to get to the curses is 50 prayer first*

[Dirkmetal]

Yes, but this encompasses more then just pures on PvP worlds. This effects ranging and maging in Castle Wars, Fist of Guthix, Clan Wars and Stealing Creation.

[Sy_Accursed]

It's not that big a deal unless you are a nooby mage.

 

Rangers will get pwned its a given, part of the combat triangle.

 

But any decent mage, turmoil or not, can stop the meleer even getting to them. Why do you think in combat mini-games there is always like 30+ people attempting to pile the ancient mage but like no-one reaches them cause they r frozen and it takes several minutes to manage to get them?

[Romy]

It's not that big a deal unless you are a nooby mage.

 

Rangers will get pwned its a given, part of the combat triangle.

 

But any decent mage, turmoil or not, can stop the meleer even getting to them. Why do you think in combat mini-games there is always like 30+ people attempting to pile the ancient mage but like no-one reaches them cause they r frozen and it takes several minutes to manage to get them?

 

Someone here forgot the Combat Triangle is unbalanced....

[jonni]

I guess you could say the combat triangle is in turmoil right now!!

dohoho

[Sy_Accursed]

It's not that big a deal unless you are a nooby mage.

 

Rangers will get pwned its a given, part of the combat triangle.

 

But any decent mage, turmoil or not, can stop the meleer even getting to them. Why do you think in combat mini-games there is always like 30+ people attempting to pile the ancient mage but like no-one reaches them cause they r frozen and it takes several minutes to manage to get them?

 

Someone here forgot the Combat Triangle is unbalanced....

 

t's not perfectly balanced no, but it still roughly works.

 

As a ranger you can usually get a mage down if you can hit hard enough.

As a mage you can usually get a meleer down if you use ice and binds to keep them from getting you

As a meleer you can usually own a ranger with easy

[Money Wasted]

It's not that big a deal unless you are a nooby mage.

 

Rangers will get pwned its a given, part of the combat triangle.

 

But any decent mage, turmoil or not, can stop the meleer even getting to them. Why do you think in combat mini-games there is always like 30+ people attempting to pile the ancient mage but like no-one reaches them cause they r frozen and it takes several minutes to manage to get them?

 

Someone here forgot the Combat Triangle is unbalanced....

 

t's not perfectly balanced no, but it still roughly works.

 

As a ranger you can usually get a mage down if you can hit hard enough.

As a mage you can usually get a meleer down if you use ice and binds to keep them from getting you

As a meleer you can usually own a ranger with easy

 

Except the fact that you get called a farcaster noob and you will have to tank which defeats the whole purpose of being a mage <_<

 

Its ok for a meleer to own a ranger

Its ok for a ranger to own a mage

But if a mage starts owning a meleer...0mfg n00b farcaster gtf0

[Sy_Accursed]

It's not that big a deal unless you are a nooby mage.

 

Rangers will get pwned its a given, part of the combat triangle.

 

But any decent mage, turmoil or not, can stop the meleer even getting to them. Why do you think in combat mini-games there is always like 30+ people attempting to pile the ancient mage but like no-one reaches them cause they r frozen and it takes several minutes to manage to get them?

 

Someone here forgot the Combat Triangle is unbalanced....

 

t's not perfectly balanced no, but it still roughly works.

 

As a ranger you can usually get a mage down if you can hit hard enough.

As a mage you can usually get a meleer down if you use ice and binds to keep them from getting you

As a meleer you can usually own a ranger with easy

 

Except the fact that you get called a farcaster noob and you will have to tank which defeats the whole purpose of being a mage <_<

 

Its ok for a meleer to own a ranger

Its ok for a ranger to own a mage

But if a mage starts owning a meleer...0mfg n00b farcaster gtf0

 

So who cares?

That just dumb meleers who rarely know the combat triangle and assume they should own all. The whole point of mage is it is not a close up skill, you're meant to stay back out of trouble and take foes down.

[LatinII]

Meleers don't stand a chance against a skilled mage. And mages can kill rangers too, except for the ones that know what weapons to use against a mage. Which not many are aware of.

[Money Wasted]

It's not that big a deal unless you are a nooby mage.

 

Rangers will get pwned its a given, part of the combat triangle.

 

But any decent mage, turmoil or not, can stop the meleer even getting to them. Why do you think in combat mini-games there is always like 30+ people attempting to pile the ancient mage but like no-one reaches them cause they r frozen and it takes several minutes to manage to get them?

 

Someone here forgot the Combat Triangle is unbalanced....

 

t's not perfectly balanced no, but it still roughly works.

 

As a ranger you can usually get a mage down if you can hit hard enough.

As a mage you can usually get a meleer down if you use ice and binds to keep them from getting you

As a meleer you can usually own a ranger with easy

 

Except the fact that you get called a farcaster noob and you will have to tank which defeats the whole purpose of being a mage <_<

 

Its ok for a meleer to own a ranger

Its ok for a ranger to own a mage

But if a mage starts owning a meleer...0mfg n00b farcaster gtf0

 

So who cares?

That just dumb meleers who rarely know the combat triangle and assume they should own all. The whole point of mage is it is not a close up skill, you're meant to stay back out of trouble and take foes down.

 

Yeah it's just really annoying when you can't mage properly without being called a farcasting noob or whatever. I guess it's the the same for everything else that gives you an advantage over your opponent these days

[Lep]

Why doesn't anyone ever get their curses to 10% on something like npcs, before a fight? That's more powerful than Turmoil is. I mean, at least if you're gonna hardcore and FOR SURE kill someone. Like full Vesta/Firecape and vls. Then I'd bother doing that...

[Sy_Accursed]

Why doesn't anyone ever get their curses to 10% on something like npcs, before a fight? That's more powerful than Turmoil is. I mean, at least if you're gonna hardcore and FOR SURE kill someone. Like full Vesta/Firecape and vls. Then I'd bother doing that...

 

Because as soon as you break combat or change target you drop back down to the starting percentages

[Silver_Corner]

It's not that big a deal unless you are a nooby mage.

 

Rangers will get pwned its a given, part of the combat triangle.

 

But any decent mage, turmoil or not, can stop the meleer even getting to them. Why do you think in combat mini-games there is always like 30+ people attempting to pile the ancient mage but like no-one reaches them cause they r frozen and it takes several minutes to manage to get them?

 

Someone here forgot the Combat Triangle is unbalanced....

 

t's not perfectly balanced no, but it still roughly works.

 

As a ranger you can usually get a mage down if you can hit hard enough.

As a mage you can usually get a meleer down if you use ice and binds to keep them from getting you

As a meleer you can usually own a ranger with easy

 

Except the fact that you get called a farcaster noob and you will have to tank which defeats the whole purpose of being a mage <_<

 

Its ok for a meleer to own a ranger

Its ok for a ranger to own a mage

But if a mage starts owning a meleer...0mfg n00b farcaster gtf0

 

So who cares?

That just dumb meleers who rarely know the combat triangle and assume they should own all. The whole point of mage is it is not a close up skill, you're meant to stay back out of trouble and take foes down.

 

It's not so much that, as it is hybrid issues. When a person only uses one type of armor/weapon, the triangle works fine. When you mix weapons and armors, melee always comes out the victor in terms of bonuses.

 

We've all heard the d'hide example so I wont bother explaining it.

 

The problem is the way the skills are designed. Melee is the only skill that is not dependent on armor bonuses, and because of that when hybriding comes into play melee ALWAYS has the advantage. Melee can switch defense bonuses without any loss of attack bonuses. So as good as the triangle looks on paper, it simply doesn't work like that in the real world.

 

Yes, but this encompasses more then just pures on PvP worlds. This effects ranging and maging in Castle Wars, Fist of Guthix, Clan Wars and Stealing Creation.

 

I don't think its really necessary for this to include anything except Dangerous PvP. The reason of that is in castle wars, fist of guthix, ect.. Your combat level is not important. In those minigames you would be hindering yourself not to train melee skills. In PvP the opposite is the case because who you can fight is directly related to your combat level.

 

As for the the turmoil, rumor has it Jagex may be adding a "turmoil" like prayer for magic and range in the future. If that is true, it may make turmoil not so powerful. Especially if the magic prayer has the ability to reduce melee damage.

[Sy_Accursed]

I personally don;t think hybriding is a break of the triangle.

 

If you can successfully hybrid the point is that you cross between two classes and thus gain the upper hand.

 

Eg melee + range hybrid can beat melee and mage easy peasy

 

I do think however the issue does lie in that melee/range hybridding is too easy as virtually none of the range armours (d hide) req a range level, meaning without actually being a rnager at all you can adopt this hybird to tank out mages.

[blackeagle4]

I personally don;t think hybriding is a break of the triangle.

 

If you can successfully hybrid the point is that you cross between two classes and thus gain the upper hand.

 

Eg melee + range hybrid can beat melee and mage easy peasy

 

I do think however the issue does lie in that melee/range hybridding is too easy as virtually none of the range armours (d hide) req a range level, meaning without actually being a rnager at all you can adopt this hybird to tank out mages.

 

None of the range armour require a range level?

 

derp?

 

Black d'hide - 70 range req

Armadyl - 70 range req

Karils - 70 range req

 

Tthey may not be high but I'mm pretty sure thats still a requirement.

 

Oh and with the curses; if your stats are reduced by X%, it slowly returns back to normal, same as if your stats are increased. if you reduce the defence of something to -25%, changing target means you have to start again, nothing to do with breaking combat.

[Sy_Accursed]

I personally don;t think hybriding is a break of the triangle.

 

If you can successfully hybrid the point is that you cross between two classes and thus gain the upper hand.

 

Eg melee + range hybrid can beat melee and mage easy peasy

 

I do think however the issue does lie in that melee/range hybridding is too easy as virtually none of the range armours (d hide) req a range level, meaning without actually being a rnager at all you can adopt this hybird to tank out mages.

 

None of the range armour require a range level?

 

derp?

 

Black d'hide - 70 range req

Armadyl - 70 range req

Karils - 70 range req

 

Tthey may not be high but I'mm pretty sure thats still a requirement.

 

Oh and with the curses; if your stats are reduced by X%, it slowly returns back to normal, same as if your stats are increased. if you reduce the defence of something to -25%, changing target means you have to start again, nothing to do with breaking combat.

 

I said VIRTUALLY none of, meaning the MAJORITY

 

If you compare Melee you get bronze and iron with no stat reqs

Mage get basic mage robes and a plain staff

Range get basic leather, hard leather, studded leather

 

When you put this into perspective. Most rangers, especially in dangerous situations use black d hide to avoid major lose via arm and karil. Green d'hide only needs a mere 40 range to use, yet (as shown here) is only 10 - 15 defence points worse than black; which for higher levels is nothing. and equally range attack only halves, which isn't tht huge a leap

 

Compare this to the gap to that of the statless/low end mage/melee armour and its "safe" but high end counterparts and you're looking at defence and attack bonus tripling and quadrupling at the very least.

 

So as I said IMO the issue is you can hybrid with range armour (with decent stats) far too easily.

[blackeagle4]

I personally don;t think hybriding is a break of the triangle.

 

If you can successfully hybrid the point is that you cross between two classes and thus gain the upper hand.

 

Eg melee + range hybrid can beat melee and mage easy peasy

 

I do think however the issue does lie in that melee/range hybridding is too easy as virtually none of the range armours (d hide) req a range level, meaning without actually being a rnager at all you can adopt this hybird to tank out mages.

 

None of the range armour require a range level?

 

derp?

 

Black d'hide - 70 range req

Armadyl - 70 range req

Karils - 70 range req

 

Tthey may not be high but I'mm pretty sure thats still a requirement.

 

Oh and with the curses; if your stats are reduced by X%, it slowly returns back to normal, same as if your stats are increased. if you reduce the defence of something to -25%, changing target means you have to start again, nothing to do with breaking combat.

 

I said VIRTUALLY none of, meaning the MAJORITY

 

If you compare Melee you get bronze and iron with no stat reqs

Mage get basic mage robes and a plain staff

Range get basic leather, hard leather, studded leather

 

When you put this into perspective. Most rangers, especially in dangerous situations use black d hide to avoid major lose via arm and karil. Green d'hide only needs a mere 40 range to use, yet (as shown here) is only 10 - 15 defence points worse than black; which for higher levels is nothing. and equally range attack only halves, which isn't tht huge a leap

 

Compare this to the gap to that of the statless/low end mage/melee armour and its "safe" but high end counterparts and you're looking at defence and attack bonus tripling and quadrupling at the very least.

 

So as I said IMO the issue is you can hybrid with range armour (with decent stats) far too easily.

 

 

Oh okay, that's true,

i don't see why someone with 70+ Range would use green though, Range armour is the cheapest compared to the most common melee/mage armours (Mystic and Rune, both 200k or so for a set)

 

i guess thats why Rangers get called welfarers more often, and actually succeed way more than someone welfaring mage/melee lol

[Sy_Accursed]

I didn't say someone with 70+ would use green.

 

My point was you CAN hybrid to range and wear armour thts only really marginally worse than the best with only lvl 40

 

Opposed to melle and mage where to get the marginally worse than best gear u still need 60 - 70 region

[Me_Hate_Libs]

I have a solution. Don't PVP. There, problem solved. :thumbsup:

[blackeagle4]

I have a solution. Don't PVP. There, problem solved. :thumbsup:

 

But... it's so addictive!

 

I should know personally not to PVP, as I have lost more than my fair share of Godswords to it lol, but eh, it's the only part of the game that really excites me now lol

 

Apart from the new content every other month.

[hawkeye770]

^

 

So true haha...

 

I think it is a fair warning, but well over 90% of the players who pk with turmoil are over 130 Combat and so any opponent they fight will be within that range... I think hybriding on normal prayers is better because you get the automatic 15% with Eagle Eye and Mystic Might instead of the 10% + extra over time

[mister_moocky]

Melee based pures don't have 95 prayer. Problem solved.

[Mazhar]

tbh all they need to do to balance things out is make mage armour with very high melee def yet low range def

^@ the combat triangle spinoff discussion

[Bouwzie]

I have a solution. Don't PVP. There, problem solved. :thumbsup:

 

I also have a solution. Stop talking. TIF's problem solved.