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Tip.it Times 31 January 2010


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#41
waheera1
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Numerous combat maxed (and even fully skill maxed) friends agree with me that the grading of a quest should not solely be based on a rather pointless fight.

What's this supposed to mean? Max combat and skills makes you automatically the perfect judge of difficulty? :huh:

In this instance, if you took the fight out of the quest it would most likely barely even qualify as a Hard quest, which then begs the question be asked what does a Quest Cape signify?

Yes, you could ask that. If they took the boss fight out of the game. Which they didn't. But of course, if they did, you could ask it, and the answer would be that it still signifies the exact same thing it always has, which is 100% quest completion. But that's if they took out the boss fight. As it is, it only signifies that you singlehandedly took down the toughest monster in the game. Oh, and every other quest. Don't forget that. :rolleyes:


No, but if maxed combat/all skill players can't see the point of it then that to me says a lot about an update.

Fair points about what a questcape signifies, it wasn't really what I meant to say. My biggest gripe about that quest is that it was rubbish. The fight was tricky, and it felt great to beat it, but the quest on the whole was a great big pile of cack. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy the new-found exclusivity of my quest cape, and I love the +12 prayer bonus of the SW cape, but did I think it was a good quest? No. Was it even remotely close to WGS? No.

#42
Racheya
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Numerous combat maxed (and even fully skill maxed) friends agree with me that the grading of a quest should not solely be based on a rather pointless fight.

What's this supposed to mean? Max combat and skills makes you automatically the perfect judge of difficulty? :huh:

In this instance, if you took the fight out of the quest it would most likely barely even qualify as a Hard quest, which then begs the question be asked what does a Quest Cape signify?

Yes, you could ask that. If they took the boss fight out of the game. Which they didn't. But of course, if they did, you could ask it, and the answer would be that it still signifies the exact same thing it always has, which is 100% quest completion. But that's if they took out the boss fight. As it is, it only signifies that you singlehandedly took down the toughest monster in the game. Oh, and every other quest. Don't forget that. :rolleyes:


No, but if maxed combat/all skill players can't see the point of it then that to me says a lot about an update.

Fair points about what a questcape signifies, it wasn't really what I meant to say. My biggest gripe about that quest is that it was rubbish. The fight was tricky, and it felt great to beat it, but the quest on the whole was a great big pile of cack. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy the new-found exclusivity of my quest cape, and I love the +12 prayer bonus of the SW cape, but did I think it was a good quest? No. Was it even remotely close to WGS? No.


What? Just because soemone is maxed combat it doesn't mean they suddenly are more open minding and understanding about updates than lower levels, in fact I often find the opposite. When people reach higher levels - and this isn't everyone, I'm just saying - they tend to only see what benefits them so they will ONLY want high level content and the most elite things all for THEM. Because it doesn't meet their stupidly high standards they'll reject it.


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#43
waheera1
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Numerous combat maxed (and even fully skill maxed) friends agree with me that the grading of a quest should not solely be based on a rather pointless fight.

What's this supposed to mean? Max combat and skills makes you automatically the perfect judge of difficulty? :huh:

In this instance, if you took the fight out of the quest it would most likely barely even qualify as a Hard quest, which then begs the question be asked what does a Quest Cape signify?

Yes, you could ask that. If they took the boss fight out of the game. Which they didn't. But of course, if they did, you could ask it, and the answer would be that it still signifies the exact same thing it always has, which is 100% quest completion. But that's if they took out the boss fight. As it is, it only signifies that you singlehandedly took down the toughest monster in the game. Oh, and every other quest. Don't forget that. :rolleyes:


No, but if maxed combat/all skill players can't see the point of it then that to me says a lot about an update.

Fair points about what a questcape signifies, it wasn't really what I meant to say. My biggest gripe about that quest is that it was rubbish. The fight was tricky, and it felt great to beat it, but the quest on the whole was a great big pile of cack. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy the new-found exclusivity of my quest cape, and I love the +12 prayer bonus of the SW cape, but did I think it was a good quest? No. Was it even remotely close to WGS? No.


What? Just because soemone is maxed combat it doesn't mean they suddenly are more open minding and understanding about updates than lower levels, in fact I often find the opposite. When people reach higher levels - and this isn't everyone, I'm just saying - they tend to only see what benefits them so they will ONLY want high level content and the most elite things all for THEM. Because it doesn't meet their stupidly high standards they'll reject it.


I agree Racheya, but you've taken my comments out of context of the single update I was speaking of which in fact technically DOES cater exactly to those people, namely the fight with Nomad. It is certainly the hardest quest fight in the game, and one of the hardest boss fights too, so maxed players have no right to complain that it's not hard enough. But that's not what I'm saying, or indeed what my friends are saying, they are in fact arguing that the quality of this quest was not in line with expectations based on WGS and the fight unfairly penalises everyone without the relatively high levels and disposable cash for supplies etc. None of those are a problem or obstacle for the high levelled players you vilify, but still they regard that penalty as an unfair restriction on the lower levelled players who used to pride themselves on their quest cape.

Edit: This is not to say that those comments reflect the general sentiment of all high levelled players, merely my friends and I. There are most certainly players who fit your summary, but those characteristics are not those shared by the people whose comments I am relaying here.

#44
Racheya
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Numerous combat maxed (and even fully skill maxed) friends agree with me that the grading of a quest should not solely be based on a rather pointless fight.

What's this supposed to mean? Max combat and skills makes you automatically the perfect judge of difficulty? :huh:

In this instance, if you took the fight out of the quest it would most likely barely even qualify as a Hard quest, which then begs the question be asked what does a Quest Cape signify?

Yes, you could ask that. If they took the boss fight out of the game. Which they didn't. But of course, if they did, you could ask it, and the answer would be that it still signifies the exact same thing it always has, which is 100% quest completion. But that's if they took out the boss fight. As it is, it only signifies that you singlehandedly took down the toughest monster in the game. Oh, and every other quest. Don't forget that. :rolleyes:


No, but if maxed combat/all skill players can't see the point of it then that to me says a lot about an update.

Fair points about what a questcape signifies, it wasn't really what I meant to say. My biggest gripe about that quest is that it was rubbish. The fight was tricky, and it felt great to beat it, but the quest on the whole was a great big pile of cack. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy the new-found exclusivity of my quest cape, and I love the +12 prayer bonus of the SW cape, but did I think it was a good quest? No. Was it even remotely close to WGS? No.


What? Just because soemone is maxed combat it doesn't mean they suddenly are more open minding and understanding about updates than lower levels, in fact I often find the opposite. When people reach higher levels - and this isn't everyone, I'm just saying - they tend to only see what benefits them so they will ONLY want high level content and the most elite things all for THEM. Because it doesn't meet their stupidly high standards they'll reject it.


I agree Racheya, but you've taken my comments out of context of the single update I was speaking of which in fact technically DOES cater exactly to those people, namely the fight with Nomad. It is certainly the hardest quest fight in the game, and one of the hardest boss fights too, so maxed players have no right to complain that it's not hard enough. But that's not what I'm saying, or indeed what my friends are saying, they are in fact arguing that the quality of this quest was not in line with expectations based on WGS and the fight unfairly penalises everyone without the relatively high levels and disposable cash for supplies etc. None of those are a problem or obstacle for the high levelled players you vilify, but still they regard that penalty as an unfair restriction on the lower levelled players who used to pride themselves on their quest cape.

Edit: This is not to say that those comments reflect the general sentiment of all high levelled players, merely my friends and I. There are most certainly players who fit your summary, but those characteristics are not those shared by the people whose comments I am relaying here.


Fair enough with that, though this getting a bit off topic :P

I kind of agree with MHL (weird, I know D=). While I support more community orientated things like the Tip.It Events Team, where support from Jagex would be welcome, I also think that Jagex shouldn't forget that many people like the individualism that Runescape allows us to have. I'm not interested in socialising lots ingame, I'm interested in the actual game.


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#45
brunokiller
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Me hate libs wasn't hating on clans. She is more along the lines of 'Let Jagex make a game, and let the community do their thing.

Reprase: MHL is NOT anti-clan at all.

#46
Earth_Poet
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What? Just because soemone is maxed combat it doesn't mean they suddenly are more open minding and understanding about updates than lower levels, in fact I often find the opposite. When people reach higher levels - and this isn't everyone, I'm just saying - they tend to only see what benefits them so they will ONLY want high level content and the most elite things all for THEM. Because it doesn't meet their stupidly high standards they'll reject it.


That is very true. However, when Jagex themselves initially stamps "Grandmaster" on it, the expectations go up.
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#47
Nyosuht
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If Jagex really stands for “Just about the Game Experience” then they need to be about the gaming experience and the community to handle itself.

And if it doesn't, as the RSKB seems to indicate?

Jagex, which stands for Java Gaming Experts, is the name of the company which...


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#48
ldd114
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I totally agree with the "Runescape Dinosaur" article. Even though people would probably consider me a noob, since I've only been playing for 7 months, in those 7 months, needless to say, I've become addicted. What first started as a distraction while my boyfriend (who would be considered, alumni to this game as long as he has been playing) manifested itself to a healthy obsession. Yes the first two months were 12 hour days, but this game has become so monstrous in activities. Combat, quests, money making, meeting random people, I can literally get on whenever and find something interesting to do. Of course, now I'm at the point where I can't gain 30 levels in one day. The 50k xp to my next attack level is depressing, and yes I have looked at level 99 and the required experience, but that's another topic altogether.

Looking at other players who I've met, who dabble in this and that when the mood strikes them, and standing around shooting the breeze asking for handouts and getting money to immediately blowing it on whatever strikes their mood. (the same people that drive you nuts when trying to beat you at mining or killing whatever you are training on) it makes me wish for a world for serious gamers, or gamers who are considerate. I still have the greatest pet peeve of being in a highly wanted area first and then having a stream of people driving me nuts so they can have it. If I jump worlds for 20 minutes they can too. Maybe a world based on age? Maturity comes with age, how about a world where your given age is a requirement?


...oh it seems I have babbled on to something completely different... Can this being my first post be an excuse? ;)

#49
jettrider
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The latest update pretty much proves my point. The chunk of work allocated to the developer team lied in the realms of the orb thing (work for a different department) and on a quest that took me 6 minutes to complete. The vast majority of those 6 minutes was spent reading through the dialogues, teleporting around to get the runes I needed, and trying to figure out a way to get emeralds (uncut emeralds still buy, folks). That just plain out sucks.

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#50
decebal
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I loved the first article, nice little references to things happening in RS.

As for the second, the article sounded a bit too much like a rant. Honestly, us clanners felt neglected for years until Jagex started adding back things that we needed, and now the REST of the world hates them? For doing something they should've started doing a long time ago? Honestly? Just because it's not an update for you, it doesn't mean it's not useful. Same with the Orb, and if you think about it, the "advancements in technology" they've made with the orb can help with other things, such as adding in WASD walking.

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#51
Ezkaton
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Me hate libs wasn't hating on clans. She is more along the lines of 'Let Jagex make a game, and let the community do their thing.

Reprase: MHL is NOT anti-clan at all.


Bruno totally has it right about the 2nd article.
MHL summed up perfectly tbf about clans. In my own opinion I think that clans are technically supporting a separation in community. Jagex made the game for single players and these single players then come together into the biggest clan of them all - the RS community, but with them continually doing things for clans and quite often the minority they're splitting this community. Props to her for such a good and readable article =D>

The first one was good fun, I enjoyed reading it because it provided a bit of light entertainment whilst I fished.

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#52
neoatg
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I can't agree enough with the 2nd tip-it. I swore off clans because I joined my closest friend’s clan we were each other 1st friend online it was her 2nd day it was my 1st when we meet. The clan destroyed our relationship and we didn't talk for nearly 2 years. I was the Clan banker two guys that had muscled there way up the ladder in the clan wanted what was in the bank and control of the bank to steal from the other clan members this was before trade limits. They used there little group of friends to dirty my name and to lie about so called abuses I'd was to have done. In the end they drove my best friend on RS mad and she ended our friendship and told me to leave the clan. Near two years later out of the blue she contacts me and tells me I was right that the Clan was in ruins the two nameless ones had kicked out all the old leaders including her and used the clan as there own bank and private army. We became friends again but two years had past and she just doesn't play anymore I can't help but think I was robbed of two years of good memories with her all over a stupid clan bank.

I DON’T WANT OT SAY CLANS ARE BAD. Want to be clear here, but for Jagex to divert recourses to a side issues like you tube vids and Clans seem down right foolish. Jagex need to be working to keep the game fresh. They haven’t been working enough for the players, they seem focus on trying to force a community to grow and that’s something that you just can’t do.

#53
MistressGlo
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RE: Runescape Dinosaur

I agree with the majority of this article. It seems like these days there is so much offered to Clans and groups that players who like to just play the game and not be involved with the clan or group thing do not have many updates geared toward them. I am a loner because I like to work on skills and whatever I am doing on my time frame and not someone else's. I am not unsociable and I do talk to people who are around where ever I happen to be. I know there are a lot of players who do enjoy the group/clan stuff, but I also think there are quite a few players that play the way I do. It is because I can play RS my own way that I enjoy it so much. There have been some good updates for those of us who play alone like the diaries. It just seems like lately that the majority of updates have been geared to clan/groups. I know many of you do not agree with me, but I will say this if I wanted something like WOW then that is what I would be playing.
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#54
mara_planter
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I, too, am a skiller/quester who doesn't participate in the Jagex-sponsored community activities, but I have a completely different perspective than Me_Hate_Libs.

I play 1-2 hours/day, and I feel like I am falling behind in taking advantage of the game content that has recently been introduced.

I am impressed with the number of small improvements that Jagex has made recently that make my skilling experience better, such as making the first click on pineapples "Use" instead of "Eat", or the ability to race through the gates between Al Kharid and Lumbridge without conversing with the guards. With the introduction of Notes and Objectives, I've got in-game ways to plan and track my progress.

Jagex has said they have been spending time making improvements to the less visible aspects of the game, such as the game engine, that will result in future game play improvements. As a former software engineer, I can completely sympathize with how much work goes into the less obvious enhancements to a body of code that supports the more visible enhancements. It is very frustrating when customers give their accolades only to those updates that provide immediate gratification.

I don't spend a lot of time on the Official Forums, but It does seem like Jagex staff have begun spending more time observing what is posted there and responding to posts. Although there is development lag time, I am seeing suggestions made in the forums incorporated into the game.

I don't have time to make Machinima videos, but I enjoy viewing what others produce, and am impressed with the creativity I see there. I will benefit from Jagex enhancements that support Machinima by the additional hours I spend watching videos and reflecting on the time I spend in the actual game. I appreciate player use of Machinima to create videos that offer tips about how to use various features of the game.

I don't belong to a clan, but I enjoy joining a clan chat to hunt penguins.

I can access Tip.it, but many of the younger players are limited by parental controls on their computers to in-game features. I applaud Jagex's efforts to give them the ability to access the accumulated wisdom of the RS community, and to have organized events to attend. I wish more "dinosaurs" would consider some community service time to help these younger players, and to recognize that they themselves have been helped by the kindness of strangers.

I disagree strenuously that the perspective of the author is mature. Part of maturity is recognizing that you are not the center of the universe. Rants are something mature people indulge in, not something they are proud of.
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#55
Earth_Poet
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I, too, am a skiller/quester who doesn't participate in the Jagex-sponsored community activities, but I have a completely different perspective than Me_Hate_Libs.

I play 1-2 hours/day, and I feel like I am falling behind in taking advantage of the game content that has recently been introduced.

I am impressed with the number of small improvements that Jagex has made recently that make my skilling experience better, such as making the first click on pineapples "Use" instead of "Eat", or the ability to race through the gates between Al Kharid and Lumbridge without conversing with the guards. With the introduction of Notes and Objectives, I've got in-game ways to plan and track my progress.

Jagex has said they have been spending time making improvements to the less visible aspects of the game, such as the game engine, that will result in future game play improvements. As a former software engineer, I can completely sympathize with how much work goes into the less obvious enhancements to a body of code that supports the more visible enhancements. It is very frustrating when customers give their accolades only to those updates that provide immediate gratification.


I understand that sometimes even the smallest of improvements can take a lot of time to develop, but you're responding from the perspective of the employee, not a customer. How or why would you expect gamers to applaud an update that has no immediate effect on their gameplay, unless you are seeking some form of self-gratification? It may seem short-sighted, but all a gamer can do is comment on what's in front of him, especially with a company who enjoys keeping most things a surprise.

I don't have time to make Machinima videos, but I enjoy viewing what others produce, and am impressed with the creativity I see there. I will benefit from Jagex enhancements that support Machinima by the additional hours I spend watching videos and reflecting on the time I spend in the actual game. I appreciate player use of Machinima to create videos that offer tips about how to use various features of the game.


Here's my opinions on the Orb. Why go through so much trouble creating an object that you have to carry around with you, and cater it to a minor percentage of the population? Instead, why not simply create a first-person option, which would seem roughly the same effect, and it becomes something the whole community could enjoy? I think that's the point that is being made. Why not make an update that everyone can benefit from directly in the game? It could've been a huge universal update, but ended up something a handful of players might find useful while the rest of the community treats it as a novelty item for 15 minutes before moving on.

I can access Tip.it, but many of the younger players are limited by parental controls on their computers to in-game features. I applaud Jagex's efforts to give them the ability to access the accumulated wisdom of the RS community, and to have organized events to attend. I wish more "dinosaurs" would consider some community service time to help these younger players, and to recognize that they themselves have been helped by the kindness of strangers.


It can't be easy to wag your finger at other players for not putting in community service when you began your post by explaining you don't participate either. Is it because you only play 1-2 hours a day? I understand. That's my excuse, too.
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#56
mara_planter
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I, too, am a skiller/quester who doesn't participate in the Jagex-sponsored community activities, but I have a completely different perspective than Me_Hate_Libs.

I play 1-2 hours/day, and I feel like I am falling behind in taking advantage of the game content that has recently been introduced.

I am impressed with the number of small improvements that Jagex has made recently that make my skilling experience better, such as making the first click on pineapples "Use" instead of "Eat", or the ability to race through the gates between Al Kharid and Lumbridge without conversing with the guards. With the introduction of Notes and Objectives, I've got in-game ways to plan and track my progress.

Jagex has said they have been spending time making improvements to the less visible aspects of the game, such as the game engine, that will result in future game play improvements. As a former software engineer, I can completely sympathize with how much work goes into the less obvious enhancements to a body of code that supports the more visible enhancements. It is very frustrating when customers give their accolades only to those updates that provide immediate gratification.


I understand that sometimes even the smallest of improvements can take a lot of time to develop, but you're responding from the perspective of the employee, not a customer. How or why would you expect gamers to applaud an update that has no immediate effect on their gameplay, unless you are seeking some form of self-gratification? It may seem short-sighted, but all a gamer can do is comment on what's in front of him, especially with a company who enjoys keeping most things a surprise.


I have worked with customers who understand the difference between instant gratification and delayed gratification. They are much easier to work with/for that the ones who only understand visible results, and the products I produced for the former were generally superior to those I produced for customers who valued flash over substance. It is in YOUR best interest to acknowledge/tolerate/support those things that benefit the game in the long run.



I don't have time to make Machinima videos, but I enjoy viewing what others produce, and am impressed with the creativity I see there. I will benefit from Jagex enhancements that support Machinima by the additional hours I spend watching videos and reflecting on the time I spend in the actual game. I appreciate player use of Machinima to create videos that offer tips about how to use various features of the game.


Here's my opinions on the Orb. Why go through so much trouble creating an object that you have to carry around with you, and cater it to a minor percentage of the population? Instead, why not simply create a first-person option, which would seem roughly the same effect, and it becomes something the whole community could enjoy? I think that's the point that is being made. Why not make an update that everyone can benefit from directly in the game? It could've been a huge universal update, but ended up something a handful of players might find useful while the rest of the community treats it as a novelty item for 15 minutes before moving on.


I don't know what "the Orb" is, and I don't know why Jagex chose that particular way to implement Machinima support. It could be bad, it could be good, it could be mediocre. What I object to is the idea that Jagex should not provide Machinima support.



I can access Tip.it, but many of the younger players are limited by parental controls on their computers to in-game features. I applaud Jagex's efforts to give them the ability to access the accumulated wisdom of the RS community, and to have organized events to attend. I wish more "dinosaurs" would consider some community service time to help these younger players, and to recognize that they themselves have been helped by the kindness of strangers.


It can't be easy to wag your finger at other players for not putting in community service when you began your post by explaining you don't participate either. Is it because you only play 1-2 hours a day? I understand. That's my excuse, too.


First of all, community service and participation in Jagex-sponsored events are not the same thing. I don't participate in "official events"; I do provide "community service."

Community service doesn't have to be through an organization. Whenever I log on, there are usually younger less experienced players who need help. Sometimes they're already on my friends list, sometimes they're strangers asking for help. (Sometimes they're just obviously floundering.) Sometimes they need an item, sometimes advice, sometimesan older person to look up something for them at a fansite like Tip.it. Anyone like me who responds to those requests is not only helping the player, but helping him/herself by building a stronger RS community. When you help other people, you get to see their perspective, and how their needs and wants might not be exactly the same as yours. You start to care about whether the game works for someone other than yourself.

The article was originally a post on the official RS forums. "Dinosaurs" are perfectly welcome not to become involved in any community, but it seems ironic when they use a tool that Jagex provides to support the existence of communities to tear down Jagex's efforts to build communities.

I have a sister, and I have two kids. I have seen sibling rivalry from both sides. There is often the feeling that Mom is playing favorites. It is only very young children who feel that the parent would be justified in ignoring the needs of a sibling, which is essentially what the article is advocating. The green-eyed monster called Jealousy has visited all of us, but we are better human beings for trying to overcome it, rather than indulging in it.
/\ ~Mara Planter
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