Stealing is moral?

[mixand]

Why is it considered moral for the government to force people to pay money (Tax)?

Yes.. some of it might go to someone else who needs it but If I started mugging people and giving the money to charity I would go to jail.

[Sy_Accursed]

Because its not stealing?

 

Taxes are taken from all working citizens to pay for health care education etc etc.

 

In fact based on what a government has spent on you from when you were concieved to the time u start paying taxes you probably owe them a hell of alot more than u'll ever pay in taxes.

[Rock Hard]

It's for your own good.

[Romy]

Because its not stealing?

 

Taxes are taken from all working citizens to pay for health care education etc etc.

 

In fact based on what a government has spent on you from when you were concieved to the time u start paying taxes you probably owe them a hell of alot more than u'll ever pay in taxes.

 

That couldn't be logically true for everyone though, otherwise the government would be very poor...

[mixand]

If you don't pay the money you go to jail.

 

"To take without right or permission."

 

I didn't ask for them to take other peoples money and distribute it.

Anything done with force or threat of force is wrong.

[Sy_Accursed]

The thing is they do have the right and the permission.

 

Law gives the permission and the fact you are a citizen of their state entitles them to charge you to be so.

[Rock Hard]

Anything done with force or threat of force is wrong.

 

Nope.

 

I didn't ask for them to take other peoples money and distribute it.

Mandate:

 

The concept of a government having a legitimate mandate to govern via the fair winning of a democratic election is a central idea of democracy. New governments who attempt to introduce policies that they did not make public during an election campaign are said to not have a legitimate mandate to implement such policies.

Elections, especially ones with a large margin of victory, are often said to give the newly elected government or elected official a mandate to implement certain policies.

 

You're free to vote for a government which doesn't support taxation, or to propose your own.

[Sy_Accursed]

Because its not stealing?

 

Taxes are taken from all working citizens to pay for health care education etc etc.

 

In fact based on what a government has spent on you from when you were concieved to the time u start paying taxes you probably owe them a hell of alot more than u'll ever pay in taxes.

 

That couldn't be logically true for everyone though, otherwise the government would be very poor...

 

It can logically be true. If you take that statement to be true of the standard John Smith type of guy.

 

Then factor in the waster type who drop out of education cant afford the bus etc. Which means they cost government less.

And factor in the rich people who end up paying loads of tax as they can easily afford it.

 

It'll all balance out nicely.

 

Having said that though every country has a national debt and msot countries national debt grows by 1million+ a year. Effectively all countries are bankrupt, but as they print their own money they jsut owe themselves more and more.

[mixand]

I own myself and have no leader. How do they have my permission? One person stealing from one person is as wrong as a million people stealing from one person.. it doesn't make it right.

 

I don't understand why somebody can't fathom that. The only "law" I believe in is that no man shall de-fraud, threaten or use physical force against somebody else.

[Sy_Accursed]

Just because that is the only law YOU believe in doesnt make it the only law YOU are subjected too.

 

I mean if you decided you dont believe in the law of gravity it doesnt mean gravity magicall stops working and u can float around.

[mixand]

You want something you pay for it, ask for it or make it. You don't just take it away from them..

 

Or just got lick the boots of some bureaucrat and follow the lynch mob as they enslave anybody who doesn't want what they want.

[mixand]

That's physical.. it's a natural law. You can't change that.

If I follow the only law that I believe in then I'm not hurting anybody.. therefore it's a victimless crime.

[Orpheus]

Mixand, you have no clue what you're talking about, do you? I'm going to get to the point, and say you sound like some anarchist who thinks stealing from others isn't wrong.

 

Would you like it if someone stole everything you owned? I'm pretty certain you wouldn't, which is why those laws are there.

 

And taxes go to help with public services, like schools, roads, etc. It's for your own good.

[Sy_Accursed]

But you are subject to your current laws.

Therefore you are obliged to follow them, face the punishment for breaking them OR move elsewhere.

 

The only way you dont pay tax is if you are not a citizen of a state, but the head of the state.

[Guthorm]

Since when did taxing become stealing? Without the taxes a country is going to be in shambles, no infrastructures can be built, no more government run services such as police/public libraries/firefighters.

 

Stealing is defined to be: the act of taking something from someone unlawfully

 

In other words, taking something away from somebody while breaking a law. For example if the cops have a court order and takes a DNA sample from you, that is not stealing, it is called enforcing the law, and things like taxes become laws because they are justified.

[SeanyTheSailor]

Well just about everything the government does fails or is extremely inefficient so you have a right to be pissed off about taxes but paying them does do good things.

[mixand]

I believe in voluntarism.. which is basically anarcho-capialism.

What have I said that makes me sound like I think stealing isn't wrong? The first thing I stated was that stealing is wrong..

Only I can say what is for my own good. And only you can say what is good for you.. "Public" services are just monopolies.

[SeanyTheSailor]

I believe in voluntarism.. which is basically anarcho-capialism.

What have I said that makes me sound like I think stealing isn't wrong? The first thing I stated was that stealing is wrong..

Only I can say what is for my own good. And only you can say what is good for you.. "Public" services are just monopolies.

Do you know what a monopoly is?

[mixand]

Yes I do. Any service the government tries to do the private sector can do better.

[Guthorm]

I believe in voluntarism.. which is basically anarcho-capialism.

What have I said that makes me sound like I think stealing isn't wrong? The first thing I stated was that stealing is wrong..

Only I can say what is for my own good. And only you can say what is good for you.. "Public" services are just monopolies.

 

The form of government you purpose is extremely inefficient, but that is another point.

 

Are you seriously telling me that paying taxes is not good? You think all the services available to you are not paid by the taxes? Just how do you think roads and school are been built?

 

Also no, public service is not a monopoly.

[Sy_Accursed]

This strikes me as another case of I'm a kid/young adult who has learnt politcal stuff so I must have extreme views for the sake of it. Even though I don;t know what half of it means. The real impacts it would have. Or half of what the government actually does

[mixand]

I believe in voluntarism.. which is basically anarcho-capialism.

What have I said that makes me sound like I think stealing isn't wrong? The first thing I stated was that stealing is wrong..

Only I can say what is for my own good. And only you can say what is good for you.. "Public" services are just monopolies.

 

The form of government you purpose is extremely inefficient, but that is another point.

 

Are you seriously telling me that paying taxes is not good? You think all the services available to you are not paid by the taxes? Just how do you think roads and school are been built?

 

Also no, public service is not a monopoly.

 

I get these services by paying taxes. Which is like being forced by a company to shop their and only there.. or go to jail. If there was no government then I would be getting the services I want from competing businesses. If they fail they are shutdown so they have to actually succeed to stay in business, unlike the government..

[Guthorm]

Yes I do. Any service the government tries to do the private sector can do better.

 

Never go extreme in an arguement(ucwutIdidthere?), of course there are some services the private sector can do better than the government. But say any services? Really?

[mixand]

Name one thing no private business can't do as good as the government.

[SeanyTheSailor]

I believe in voluntarism.. which is basically anarcho-capialism.

What have I said that makes me sound like I think stealing isn't wrong? The first thing I stated was that stealing is wrong..

Only I can say what is for my own good. And only you can say what is good for you.. "Public" services are just monopolies.

 

The form of government you purpose is extremely inefficient, but that is another point.

 

Are you seriously telling me that paying taxes is not good? You think all the services available to you are not paid by the taxes? Just how do you think roads and school are been built?

 

Also no, public service is not a monopoly.

 

I get these services by paying taxes. Which is like being forced by a company to shop their and only there.. or go to jail. If there was no government then I would be getting the services I want from competing businesses.

You can go to private school, no one is stopping you from walking or flying on a private runway. So these are not monopolies in the first place also judging by your picture (and of course i could be wrong) you don't have a job, so YOU don't pay taxes yet.