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Stealing is moral?


mixand

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Because its not stealing?

 

Taxes are taken from all working citizens to pay for health care education etc etc.

 

In fact based on what a government has spent on you from when you were concieved to the time u start paying taxes you probably owe them a hell of alot more than u'll ever pay in taxes.

 

That couldn't be logically true for everyone though, otherwise the government would be very poor...

 

It can logically be true. If you take that statement to be true of the standard John Smith type of guy.

 

Then factor in the waster type who drop out of education cant afford the bus etc. Which means they cost government less.

And factor in the rich people who end up paying loads of tax as they can easily afford it.

 

It'll all balance out nicely.

 

Having said that though every country has a national debt and msot countries national debt grows by 1million+ a year. Effectively all countries are bankrupt, but as they print their own money they jsut owe themselves more and more.

 

Your argument makes no sense. You said he probably took from the government more than he ever paid. I said that it can't be logically true for everyone because then the government couldn't sustain itself.

 

I said as a generic, generalising statement talking about the average person.

 

They probably cost the state more in medical care education etc than they ever pay in taxes.

Yes if it were unviersally true it'd be slightly flawed, however, as I further explained in responder to you.

 

The generalisation expands into 3 groups:

The average person - costs more than they ever pay back

The waster sort - pay very little back, but cost virtually nothing

Those who become rich - probably pays back more than they ever cost

 

Which allows a rough equilibrium.

 

But equally as I and someone else pointed out every country has a national debt of millions or billions. Because every country spends more than it makes in taxes.

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And anybody can go to Linux instead of windows but more people use windows.. it's the standard.

Not only does Linux happen to be the standard for servers and supercomputers, but Linux is like public school in the way that everyone contributes for the benefit of everyone, and Windows' development is privately funded. That analogy doesn't really work.

I was at a private school for half of my school life and the other half was at a public school. I know what is better..

I'm not really sure which you think is better, but the quality of education in different types (Public or private) varies so much from country to country that you can't really say that; Finland's education is among the best in the world, and is almost exclusively public.

but if private (or home) school was the only option then there would be more private schools which would mean more competition equaling lower costs and better quality. At the moment a lot of private schools are here for parents who want religion at school. If it was all private there would be a lot more different types and you wouldn't have to go to one school just because you live in that area.

Cost is almost always proportional to quality, especially in schools. Less cost, less teachers, less material, less electives...

Yes but if the school cost less.. but had less quality then most people wouldn't pick that school and it would go out of business.

Yes, exactly. You didn't really read my quote did you? If a majority of schools were private, the cost would not go down so much so as to maintain quality. This is exactly why private schools aren't as popular, the quality must remain constant so the cost must remain constant.

Finland's education is very different to the public schools of the US and America. In America you go to a school they pick and the money isn't attached to the child unlike a lot of European countries.

I have no idea what you mean by that second sentence. Who is "They"? What do you mean by "The money", how is it attached to the child?

 

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Mixland, the problem here is that you can't be reasoned with imo. Taxes and established governments with laws have separated us from the Middle ages, and have given the majority of people in developed countries much much better qualities of life.

 

Personally, I wouldn't mind paying a few % higher taxes, as I see daily where the Gov. has run short of money. You would be amazed how much this country (the UK) would advance if we all paid an extra 10% income tax. I get very hesitant when a political party says they want to lower taxes in the run-up to elections, as I know it just means spending cuts.

 

 

If you truly think paying taxes is stealing, leave. Nobody is forcing you to stay in the country with taxes, but you will see a higher difference in welfare when you enter a country that has much more relaxed taxation policies.

 

While its true that more taxes would improve things loads.

10% on everyone will make things worse not better, we need to tax the rich more. Yes they might whine they have to pay 25% tax or w/e but really 25% of 1mil a yr? would u even notice it?

 

If you taxed everyone 10% more you'd be screwed. As it stands in uk the dole gives better standard of living than fulltime minimum wage, 10% tax more and mimimum wage is unlivable.

Even on alot of mid-range earners 10% would ruin them. Eg my mother 10% more icnome tax and she can't pay the mortgage any more so she'd have to the claim support from the government.

Statistically speaking its proven taxing EVERYONE 10% more would put so many people in substantially worse places that the 10% tax increase wouldnt even cover the extra government support needed for people to carry on living.

 

I'm not sure you know what you're talking about. If the rich felt the taxes are unfairly too high on their part... They'd just move to a country with lower taxes (perhaps not all of them, but enough for it to matter. A country is more likely to lose money if set high taxes on the rich).

 

 

And the rich get richer... <_<

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Yes, exactly. You didn't really read my quote did you? If a majority of schools were private, the cost would not go down so much so as to maintain quality. This is exactly why private schools aren't as popular, the quality must remain constant so the cost must remain constant.

 

That is true, the cost for private schools have already reached an equilibrium, there will be little or no change in the cost even if the majority of schools become private schools. if the private schools do lower their cost, then you do not receive the same quality as you do now.

 

To OP: I hope at least you are not surprised that nobody agreed with you on this.

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It's called contribution to the greater good of society. If it works out correctly you get the money back in some form or another.

 

But please, don't pay taxes. I'm sure you'de rather pay your own insurance, pay for your own roads, pay for your healthcare, education, pay for your libraries, community centeres etc. That would make much more sense than just paying tax.

 

The last school I've been to was a joke. Any tax money invested in that school completely went down the toilet, but no one really has a say in whether they want their money to go towards it or not. Libraries are nearly obsolete when you have a working internet. And I know this is a radical thought, but I hate roads. There are so many deaths, all in the name of convenient transportation. Honestly, I think I'd rather live in a world where I can take a walk without getting ran over. It bothers me that I'm paying money for something I don't like and I wouldn't even use if I had the opportunity.

 

The topic starter raises a good point. We're forced to pay for things we might not even want in the first place. Then again, there are quite a few conveniences I do favor, such as how computers are a part of our everyday lives. I guess taxing us for things we don't like is better than the alternative, but it still really sucks. It's just inevitable - life will always suck and be unfair. The Florida educational system needs to be revamped entirely though.

 

Because you, believe it or not, agree to pay taxes, at least in a democratic society. You vote for representatives who support taxing, therefore you support and agree to pay a tax. If you do not like to pay a tax, then vote for a candidate who does not support taxing.

 

Dear god, you best be trolling.

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Mixland, the problem here is that you can't be reasoned with imo. Taxes and established governments with laws have separated us from the Middle ages, and have given the majority of people in developed countries much much better qualities of life.

 

Personally, I wouldn't mind paying a few % higher taxes, as I see daily where the Gov. has run short of money. You would be amazed how much this country (the UK) would advance if we all paid an extra 10% income tax. I get very hesitant when a political party says they want to lower taxes in the run-up to elections, as I know it just means spending cuts.

 

 

If you truly think paying taxes is stealing, leave. Nobody is forcing you to stay in the country with taxes, but you will see a higher difference in welfare when you enter a country that has much more relaxed taxation policies.

 

While its true that more taxes would improve things loads.

10% on everyone will make things worse not better, we need to tax the rich more. Yes they might whine they have to pay 25% tax or w/e but really 25% of 1mil a yr? would u even notice it?

 

If you taxed everyone 10% more you'd be screwed. As it stands in uk the dole gives better standard of living than fulltime minimum wage, 10% tax more and mimimum wage is unlivable.

Even on alot of mid-range earners 10% would ruin them. Eg my mother 10% more icnome tax and she can't pay the mortgage any more so she'd have to the claim support from the government.

Statistically speaking its proven taxing EVERYONE 10% more would put so many people in substantially worse places that the 10% tax increase wouldnt even cover the extra government support needed for people to carry on living.

 

I'm not sure you know what you're talking about. If the rich felt the taxes are unfairly too high on their part... They'd just move to a country with lower taxes (perhaps not all of them, but enough for it to matter. A country is more likely to lose money if set high taxes on the rich).

 

 

And the rich get richer... <_<

 

I didn't say they wouldn't

 

My point was its true more taxes wuld make big improvements.

 

But taxing everyone more doesn't work as u push ppl onto government support unnecessary.

The only group who can realistically be taxed more are the rich.

 

Just because I post a specific issue of who can and cannot be taxed to result in more money for government to spend and decide to not go into the politics of the fact rich move to avoid taxes doesn't mean I'm not aware of it.

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Stealing is a crime and should be punished. Taxes aren't but should remain on a normal level.

 

If you don't like taxes and want to be a true liberal, then there are some countries where you pay no income tax.

Taxes are there to provide certain services. Obviously, coming from the highest taxed country in the world (after Denmark pushed thru their reform a few weeks ago), i am a so called "blue" person. I.e. i want lower taxes.

But to compare taxes to stealing, no i don't really follow this link as i don't think taxes are equal to stealing from my neighbours house.

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The last school I've been to was a joke. Any tax money invested in that school completely went down the toilet, but no one really has a say in whether they want their money to go towards it or not. Libraries are nearly obsolete when you have a working internet. And I know this is a radical thought, but I hate roads. There are so many deaths, all in the name of convenient transportation. Honestly, I think I'd rather live in a world where I can take a walk without getting ran over. It bothers me that I'm paying money for something I don't like and I wouldn't even use if I had the opportunity.

 

The topic starter raises a good point. We're forced to pay for things we might not even want in the first place. Then again, there are quite a few conveniences I do favor, such as how computers are a part of our everyday lives. I guess taxing us for things we don't like is better than the alternative, but it still really sucks. It's just inevitable - life will always suck and be unfair. The Florida educational system needs to be revamped entirely though.

 

But you did receive an education, and the reason it is horrible because they do not have enough money, and the reason you are going to a crappy school is because your family does not have enough money to either buy a house with a better location or pay you to go to private school.

 

There is something different from reading something in a book and reading the same thing on the internet, libraries also provide a wonderful studying environment.

 

The same arguement for roads can be used in everything, I can argue because of the internet, we now have cyber crimes, cyber bullying, etc etc. The reason we have these things is because the pro outweigh the cons. There are stuff you like provided by the government that others may not, if everybody pay for whatever they want, we would have alot less things than we have now.

 

Your reasoning is pretty selfish(no offense), I don't like this thing so I am not going to pay for it, if everybody does this, then we would have much less public build projects. Hell the army are going to be decreased because there is a large number of people who dislike fighting.

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Mixland, the problem here is that you can't be reasoned with imo. Taxes and established governments with laws have separated us from the Middle ages, and have given the majority of people in developed countries much much better qualities of life.

 

Personally, I wouldn't mind paying a few % higher taxes, as I see daily where the Gov. has run short of money. You would be amazed how much this country (the UK) would advance if we all paid an extra 10% income tax. I get very hesitant when a political party says they want to lower taxes in the run-up to elections, as I know it just means spending cuts.

 

 

If you truly think paying taxes is stealing, leave. Nobody is forcing you to stay in the country with taxes, but you will see a higher difference in welfare when you enter a country that has much more relaxed taxation policies.

 

While its true that more taxes would improve things loads.

10% on everyone will make things worse not better, we need to tax the rich more. Yes they might whine they have to pay 25% tax or w/e but really 25% of 1mil a yr? would u even notice it?

 

If you taxed everyone 10% more you'd be screwed. As it stands in uk the dole gives better standard of living than fulltime minimum wage, 10% tax more and mimimum wage is unlivable.

Even on alot of mid-range earners 10% would ruin them. Eg my mother 10% more icnome tax and she can't pay the mortgage any more so she'd have to the claim support from the government.

Statistically speaking its proven taxing EVERYONE 10% more would put so many people in substantially worse places that the 10% tax increase wouldnt even cover the extra government support needed for people to carry on living.

 

I'm not sure you know what you're talking about. If the rich felt the taxes are unfairly too high on their part... They'd just move to a country with lower taxes (perhaps not all of them, but enough for it to matter. A country is more likely to lose money if set high taxes on the rich).

 

 

And the rich get richer... <_<

 

I didn't say they wouldn't

 

My point was its true more taxes wuld make big improvements.

 

But taxing everyone more doesn't work as u push ppl onto government support unnecessary.

The only group who can realistically be taxed more are the rich.

 

Just because I post a specific issue of who can and cannot be taxed to result in more money for government to spend and decide to not go into the politics of the fact rich move to avoid taxes doesn't mean I'm not aware of it.

 

You must agree that 25% taxtaion only on the rich is insane. It would totally kill it's own purpose.

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Mixland, the problem here is that you can't be reasoned with imo. Taxes and established governments with laws have separated us from the Middle ages, and have given the majority of people in developed countries much much better qualities of life.

 

Personally, I wouldn't mind paying a few % higher taxes, as I see daily where the Gov. has run short of money. You would be amazed how much this country (the UK) would advance if we all paid an extra 10% income tax. I get very hesitant when a political party says they want to lower taxes in the run-up to elections, as I know it just means spending cuts.

 

 

If you truly think paying taxes is stealing, leave. Nobody is forcing you to stay in the country with taxes, but you will see a higher difference in welfare when you enter a country that has much more relaxed taxation policies.

 

While its true that more taxes would improve things loads.

10% on everyone will make things worse not better, we need to tax the rich more. Yes they might whine they have to pay 25% tax or w/e but really 25% of 1mil a yr? would u even notice it?

 

If you taxed everyone 10% more you'd be screwed. As it stands in uk the dole gives better standard of living than fulltime minimum wage, 10% tax more and mimimum wage is unlivable.

Even on alot of mid-range earners 10% would ruin them. Eg my mother 10% more icnome tax and she can't pay the mortgage any more so she'd have to the claim support from the government.

Statistically speaking its proven taxing EVERYONE 10% more would put so many people in substantially worse places that the 10% tax increase wouldnt even cover the extra government support needed for people to carry on living.

 

 

I agree I was probably being rather over-zealous when I said everybody. But indeed, higher taxes for those who can afford them would do a great deal of good.

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Romy if you took 25% as a literal suggestion of a figure to use when I clearly put "or w/e" after it then you are rather foolish.

 

The or w/e clearly implied it was an exaggerated figure for the purpose of example (the example being if u earn 1mil a yr, 250k tax wuldn't really make a huge dent in ur life style)

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But you did receive an education

 

I wouldn't call it that. I've learned more on TIF than I ever have in high school. The only information I've retained was the basics of math and science. The rest of the time I was in school, I would complete a worksheet about stuff I already knew, turn it in, and stare at the wall for the next 45 minutes. We literally had four 90-minute classes per day, and the majority of the class time was free time. Not to mention most of my classes weren't even real classes. Art, typing, nutrition, etc. I had to draw pointless pictures. I had to cook oatmeal cookies. There was no educational value to most of the classes I got stuck with. And the sad thing is, they only allowed you to get schedule changes if you 1) already took that class or 2) have two of the same classes.

 

I can say with complete certainty that if I spent 6 hours per day educating myself on the internet, I would be much more knowledgeable when it comes to academics.

 

and the reason it is horrible because they do not have enough money

 

Or maybe it's because they don't know how to spend it efficiently. Sorry you extra curricular jocks, but football has no place in a school that is so poor that they couldn't pay for substitute teachers. The absent teachers would have to give up $100 from their salary if they wanted a substitute for the day. Otherwise, they would leave a note on their door sending all the children with absent teachers to the auditorium (they ironically changed the name to the Learning Center) for attendance and free time. Seriously, the admins would call role, and then you would sit there for the rest of the period.

 

and the reason you are going to a crappy school is because your family does not have enough money to either buy a house with a better location or pay you to go to private school.

 

Bingo. We're forced to pay for a low quality service, which is actually counterproductive to my path to education - the very reason we have schools in the first place.

 

There is something different from reading something in a book and reading the same thing on the internet, libraries also provide a wonderful studying environment.

 

I guess it depends on the individual because I have an easier time reading a computer screen than a book in a library. I get distracted too easily in environments like that.

 

The same arguement for roads can be used in everything, I can argue because of the internet, we now have cyber crimes, cyber bullying, etc etc.

 

That's quite the stretch. Roads have caused much more unnecessary deaths than the internet has. If you want to give a friend a message via road, there is a chance of dying. If you give a friend a message via internet, the worst that could happen is a virus. Whether you like roads or the internet better really just boils down to opinion and is a whole different argument in itself.

 

There are stuff you like provided by the government that others may not, if everybody pay for whatever they want, we would have alot less things than we have now.

 

Your reasoning is pretty selfish(no offense), I don't like this thing so I am not going to pay for it, if everybody does this, then we would have much less public build projects. Hell the army are going to be decreased because there is a large number of people who dislike fighting.

 

I think you might have skipped over some of my post. I said that taxing us for things we don't agree on is better than the alternative, but I still think it stinks. Simply put, it's the lesser of two evils. There's no such thing as a perfect system.

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Romy if you took 25% as a literal suggestion of a figure to use when I clearly put "or w/e" after it then you are rather foolish.

 

The or w/e clearly implied it was an exaggerated figure for the purpose of example (the example being if u earn 1mil a yr, 250k tax wuldn't really make a huge dent in ur life style)

 

Don't say things you don't mean. If you didn't mean to bring up a 25% taxation idea, you shouldn't have.

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I wouldn't call it that. I've learned more on TIF than I ever have in high school. The only information I've retained was the basics of math and science. The rest of the time I was in school, I would complete a worksheet about stuff I already knew, turn it in, and stare at the wall for the next 45 minutes. We literally had four 90-minute classes per day, and the majority of the class time was free time. Not to mention most of my classes weren't even real classes. Art, typing, nutrition, etc. I had to draw pointless pictures. I had to cook oatmeal cookies. There was no educational value to most of the classes I got stuck with. And the sad thing is, they only allowed you to get schedule changes if you 1) already took that class or 2) have two of the same classes.

 

I can say with complete certainty that if I spent 6 hours per day educating myself on the internet, I would be much more knowledgeable when it comes to academics.

 

Well I think you need to understand my position here, you are telling me that your school's quality of education is so low that you can do better studying on the internet. That is kind of unbelievable, no course guidance/qualified teachers/planned lessons? If the school really is that bad, why did not your community do something about it? Or do you live in a really poor location?

 

Or maybe it's because they don't know how to spend it efficiently. Sorry you extra curricular jocks, but football has no place in a school that is so poor that they couldn't pay for substitute teachers. The absent teachers would have to give up $100 from their salary if they wanted a substitute for the day. Otherwise, they would leave a note on their door sending all the children with absent teachers to the auditorium (they ironically changed the name to the Learning Center) for attendance and free time. Seriously, the admins would call role, and then you would sit there for the rest of the period.

 

If your school is as bad as you have described above, I doubt more efficient spending will help that much, the core reason is going to lie with the lack of funds. Hey with more money you can have better people planning more efficient spending at your school.

 

Bingo. We're forced to pay for a low quality service, which is actually counterproductive to my path to education - the very reason we have schools in the first place.

 

Ok, I am going to go with this. You do not actually directly pay for a service, you give your money to the government and trust they will make the best out of it, if something has that kind of quality, it is probably that is how much you paid for it.

 

I guess it depends on the individual because I have an easier time reading a computer screen than a book in a library. I get distracted too easily in environments like that.

 

Eh, personal perference, too much time spending at the computer screen burns my eyes.

 

That's quite the stretch. Roads have caused much more unnecessary deaths than the internet has. If you want to give a friend a message via road, there is a chance of dying. If you give a friend a message via internet, the worst that could happen is a virus. Whether you like roads or the internet better really just boils down to opinion and is a whole different argument in itself.

 

The original arguement was how you dislike roads right? Then we are probably straying off topic here, I like the internet, I just wanted to say that your road arguement is kind of..wierd? Lack of a better word I guess.

 

I think you might have skipped over some of my post. I said that taxing us for things we don't agree on is better than the alternative, but I still think it stinks. Simply put, it's the lesser of two evils. There's no such thing as a perfect system.

 

Might have, I am multi-tasking, sorry about that.

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Lots of mis-informed posts in this thread...lots of them...

 

First of all, for the original topic, by moral standards it is stealing. I'm pretty sure EVERYBODY would agree (keep reading). But it is a necessary evil. The hate we have on taxes isn't the theory of taxation, it's how our government is using it; their effectiveness. Right now, the United States government spends 25-30% of our taxes on National Defense where as 5% goes to Education. I think testing 10 million dollar bombs, giving aid to Warlords, and protecting nations that to the average American person doesn't care is pointless to our children's education. Government is horribly inefficient and will always be because profit is the only motivation to become effective and the public doesn't want to personally pay these guy's salaries. So until we figure out a more "profitable, motivated" government, it's gonna be inefficient.

 

And also, government regulations are needed in the private sector. Railroads, when first made, were divided up by the different companies. You had to switch through 4-5 different trains from New York to San Fransisco, making transportation for passengers and companies expensive. Roads today would be a pain too; how would your house drive ways be connected? Would road companies make alliances with housing companies? Then you had to pay at your driveway and probably every mile or something.

 

Taxing the rich seems like the best logical choice, but unfortunately this would make them upset and probably move someplace else as everybody else has said. But the reason why people become rich and maintain being rich, is due to investing. Most of their income are within investments of some sorts. If the government takes away the majority of their money as taxes, they're not motivated to invest and investing drives innovation and technology forward. So we shouldn't judge the rich for their money, but how much they're willing to give the poorer a chance. Nothing I hate more is rich people who actively squish the common man. Give everybody equal opportunity and we're good.

 

It took me a while to write this I forgot the other stuff I wanted to talk about...oh well, I'll post some stuff later as the thread grows.

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If your school is as bad as you have described above, I doubt more efficient spending will help that much, the core reason is going to lie with the lack of funds. Hey with more money you can have better people planning more efficient spending at your school.

 

They'd have to prove that they can handle my money properly before I'd be willing to spend any more. Right now they're not doing that. It's just a money pit. I have no incentive to put money in the hands of people who don't know how to prioritize. Football is fine but it shouldn't be more important than education when it comes to school.

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Yeah, throwing money at the problem doesn't mean it'll fix it. Having effective teachers and staff will.

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I had no problem at first with this thread, then I realized the author is trying to seem like an anarchist or failed rebel, something along those lines. Normally people like that don't understand what goes into law or economies.

 

I get these services by paying taxes. Which is like being forced by a company to shop their and only there.. or go to jail. If there was no government then I would be getting the services I want from competing businesses. If they fail they are shutdown so they have to actually succeed to stay in business, unlike the government..

 

That is the perfect example. If there was no government, your money would be useless and wouldn't be able to get those services from those businesses. Then, if you did manage to get something, what happens if they scam you or cause you to get hurt? Are you going to sue them? You can't, because there's absolutely nothing preventing them from doing that,.

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Because you, believe it or not, agree to pay taxes, at least in a democratic society. You vote for representatives who support taxing, therefore you support and agree to pay a tax. If you do not like to pay a tax, then vote for a candidate who does not support taxing.

I voted for the Green Party over here in Canada and my grass isn't any more greener than it was before. That doesn't mean I automatically support the other side..

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Because you, believe it or not, agree to pay taxes, at least in a democratic society. You vote for representatives who support taxing, therefore you support and agree to pay a tax. If you do not like to pay a tax, then vote for a candidate who does not support taxing.

I voted for the Green Party over here in Canada and my grass isn't any more greener than it was before. That doesn't mean I automatically support the other side..

This analogy doesn't make sense....you probably vote for the green party because you want them to make changes. They can't, since they aren't in power. But you did vote for them because you support the changes they want to make - so it would be unreasonable to complain about the changes they make once they make them.

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Because you, believe it or not, agree to pay taxes, at least in a democratic society. You vote for representatives who support taxing, therefore you support and agree to pay a tax. If you do not like to pay a tax, then vote for a candidate who does not support taxing.

I voted for the Green Party over here in Canada and my grass isn't any more greener than it was before. That doesn't mean I automatically support the other side..

This analogy doesn't make sense....you probably vote for the green party because you want them to make changes. They can't, since they aren't in power. But you did vote for them because you support the changes they want to make - so it would be unreasonable to complain about the changes they make once they make them.

 

I think he was referring to Zaaps' post. He said you agree to pay taxes when you vote for a party that supports it, and then Infamous gave an example in which he 'agreed' to something and didn't get it. Atleast, that's how I see it.

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Because you, believe it or not, agree to pay taxes, at least in a democratic society. You vote for representatives who support taxing, therefore you support and agree to pay a tax. If you do not like to pay a tax, then vote for a candidate who does not support taxing.

I voted for the Green Party over here in Canada and my grass isn't any more greener than it was before. That doesn't mean I automatically support the other side..

This analogy doesn't make sense....you probably vote for the green party because you want them to make changes. They can't, since they aren't in power. But you did vote for them because you support the changes they want to make - so it would be unreasonable to complain about the changes they make once they make them.

 

I think he was referring to Zaaps' post. He said you agree to pay taxes when you vote for a party that supports it, and then Infamous gave an example in which he 'agreed' to something and didn't get it. Atleast, that's how I see it.

Which is true. Just because I voted for the Communist Party and they lost, doesn't mean I agree with the Capitalist Party.

"The cry of the poor is not always just, but if you never hear it you'll never know what justice is."

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Guest Mrmegakirby

Taxation is not stealing. You usually receive benefits for it - healthcare, public services, being allowed to live in the country... Consider it to be the cost of living where ever you do. Don't like it, move to another country.

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