Clan Politics

[SecretAgent]

I really havn't seen this with fansite clans as much as Runescape Official Forums clans, but do you think the negatives outweigh the positives for clan politics?

 

Such as the clan electing its own officials, and then those officials making the decisions, etc.

 

And while we're at it, what would happen if someone made a clan based off the United States Constitution and government? :blink:

[Danny_TeamDan]

I somewhat follow, I think clans throw in a fair system in which they give hard working members a chance to apply for open ranked spots when needed, but they also allow the members to vote on it? Like for trial commander they are given an opportunity if they meet the reqs then they go into voting by ranks, and members also vote.

 

Could you elborate more on positive and negatives on politics don't see where you're quite going with this.

[SecretAgent]

I somewhat follow, I think clans throw in a fair system in which they give hard working members a chance to apply for open ranked spots when needed, but they also allow the members to vote on it? Like for trial commander they are given an opportunity if they meet the reqs then they go into voting by ranks, and members also vote.

 

Could you elborate more on positive and negatives on politics don't see where you're quite going with this.

 

Well the obvious positive is giving clanmembers the ability to elect their leaders for a certain amount of time, and than after that time passes, there's another election for the spot. It keeps leadership positions filled with fresh people who actually campaign to win votes to be elected. The obvious negative is that people might only vote for a candidate because the voter likes that candidate (popularity contest) or because that person is a high level.

 

The other incredibly obvious negative would be drama too..

 

Need any more elaboration?

[Neltak]

Are we talking about a term-based leadership structure? If so it depends greatly on the type of clan on how it affects it, as RSOF has many odd and different clans not simply warring clans. In a warring clan atmosphere that kind of a leadership would be detrimental, but in many of the other types of clans it could be seen as fair, or letting others have a good chance to experience leadership/powerful roles when they normally wouldn't get to.

 

And if that type of leadership structure isn't what you're referring to...lol at my post.

[Danny_TeamDan]

I somewhat follow, I think clans throw in a fair system in which they give hard working members a chance to apply for open ranked spots when needed, but they also allow the members to vote on it? Like for trial commander they are given an opportunity if they meet the reqs then they go into voting by ranks, and members also vote.

 

Could you elborate more on positive and negatives on politics don't see where you're quite going with this.

 

Well the obvious positive is giving clanmembers the ability to elect their leaders for a certain amount of time, and than after that time passes, there's another election for the spot. It keeps leadership positions filled with fresh people who actually campaign to win votes to be elected. The obvious negative is that people might only vote for a candidate because the voter likes that candidate (popularity contest) or because that person is a high level.

 

The other incredibly obvious negative would be drama too..

 

Need any more elaboration?

 

Yeah well I don't see it fit, if you are relating to term based officals like Neltak just stated. I think officals aren't really needed in a clan until some one steps down or can no longer do their job / goes in active / demoted w/e the reasoning is. It should rarely happen and I think the current staff should be able to make some requirements before you allow people to "campaign" for the opening spot.

 

If you allow anyone in the clan to app for this new rank opening then you could potentially choose some one not even qualified, or even a spy. So to answer the OP's questions I'd have to say the negatives out weigh the positives.

[SecretAgent]

Are we talking about a term-based leadership structure? If so it depends greatly on the type of clan on how it affects it, as RSOF has many odd and different clans not simply warring clans. In a warring clan atmosphere that kind of a leadership would be detrimental, but in many of the other types of clans it could be seen as fair, or letting others have a good chance to experience leadership/powerful roles when they normally wouldn't get to.

 

And if that type of leadership structure isn't what you're referring to...lol at my post.

 

Spot on about the structure. The type of clan I'm thinking of is like an all around community clan that does stuff like warring, PVM/PVP events, skilling events, etc.

 

Also most clans I see using this structure usually has a figurehead leader that is a permanent seat and when that leader resigns, he/she picks who will become the next figurehead leader and usually this leader appoints the warlords or whatever they're called to lead wars.

[SecretAgent]

I somewhat follow, I think clans throw in a fair system in which they give hard working members a chance to apply for open ranked spots when needed, but they also allow the members to vote on it? Like for trial commander they are given an opportunity if they meet the reqs then they go into voting by ranks, and members also vote.

 

Could you elborate more on positive and negatives on politics don't see where you're quite going with this.

 

Well the obvious positive is giving clanmembers the ability to elect their leaders for a certain amount of time, and than after that time passes, there's another election for the spot. It keeps leadership positions filled with fresh people who actually campaign to win votes to be elected. The obvious negative is that people might only vote for a candidate because the voter likes that candidate (popularity contest) or because that person is a high level.

 

The other incredibly obvious negative would be drama too..

 

Need any more elaboration?

 

Yeah well I don't see it fit, if you are relating to term based officals like Neltak just stated. I think officals aren't really needed in a clan until some one steps down or can no longer do their job / goes in active / demoted w/e the reasoning is. It should rarely happen and I think the current staff should be able to make some requirements before you allow people to "campaign" for the opening spot.

 

If you allow anyone in the clan to app for this new rank opening then you could potentially choose some one not even qualified, or even a spy. So to answer the OP's questions I'd have to say the negatives out weigh the positives.

 

Usually the clans I've seen have a time requirement or a rank requirement that the person who wants to get elected has to meet.

[Nobody]

The negatives only outweight the positives if the system is not fair. In some countries elections are rigged while in the US much as people may dislike the result, there is no issue of one side disappearing opposition members, war, or other forms of partisan violence. Same thing in clans, as long as the system works fairly to enough of an extent to satisfy the members then it will work. On the other hand, clans led by one person that have no elected officials are not necessarily bad either as long as the members are happy.

[SecretAgent]

The negatives only outweight the positives if the system is not fair. In some countries elections are rigged while in the US much as people may dislike the result, there is no issue of one side disappearing opposition members, war, or other forms of partisan violence. Same thing in clans, as long as the system works fairly to enough of an extent to satisfy the members then it will work. On the other hand, clans led by one person that have no elected officials are not necessarily bad either as long as the members are happy.

 

What would be ways to make the system fair then in a Runescape clan?

[Jack]

An election for Clan Leadership? Getting 2 high ranks to compete for it is just a bad idea, will wreck the clan apart.

[kuru72]

why would you have two good leaders fight for a rank when you can get both of them to have the rank and lead. It would be way better. Plus never forget politics is always a troublemaker.

[Mister_T]

Obama ftw

[Guthorm]

I am sure there are many clans that elect its officals by popular vote. A clan based on the US constitution would be almost impossible, in theory there are three branches of government, but in reality there are four. Without a large population and other issues to concern about, you are lefting out the lobbyists and the general population which can be a problem at times. The supreme court would be fairly useless as well for what constituition would they have to interpret? Unless you are thinking about just president(clan leader), the senate+HOR(lower officals and rest member make up HOR). One of the biggest problem here is that if the leader made the clan, s/he is most likely unwilling to give much of his/her power away for essentially s/he has spend the most time on it and who would be willing to share that much power?

[Dbzruler72]

I am sure there are many clans that elect its officals by popular vote. A clan based on the US constitution would be almost impossible, in theory there are three branches of government, but in reality there are four. Without a large population and other issues to concern about, you are lefting out the lobbyists and the general population which can be a problem at times. The supreme court would be fairly useless as well for what constituition would they have to interpret? Unless you are thinking about just president(clan leader), the senate+HOR(lower officals and rest member make up HOR). One of the biggest problem here is that if the leader made the clan, s/he is most likely unwilling to give much of his/her power away for essentially s/he has spend the most time on it and who would be willing to share that much power?

Good point. This is why clans aren't democratic. At least they shouldn't be. Decisions from leaders are based on background information, observation, and experience. Quality decisions like that can't be made from a member's point of view.

 

Leaders sharing too much power is not a good idea. No matter how much trust a leader has for another, it's the leader's responsibility to keep the clan safe, and that means keeping a certain level of trust with staff.

[bear1108]

I think, leader(s) should make up new ideas and let the clan members to vote wether it is good or bad if the issue concerns them.

 

Making a clan based on any constitution would be impossible or just separate the clan into "parties" which would mean more difficulties. Not adviseable.

[Dbzruler72]

I think, leader(s) should make up new ideas and let the clan members to vote wether it is good or bad if the issue concerns them.

Even that has its faults. Part of being a leader is making unpopular decisions.

[Shutai]

Obama ftw

^

[Danny_TeamDan]

Obama ftw

^

 

O dear, this could turn into a different topic. But I'll hold myeslf back.

[bear1108]

I think, leader(s) should make up new ideas and let the clan members to vote wether it is good or bad if the issue concerns them.

Even that has its faults. Part of being a leader is making unpopular decisions.

That goes with it and you have to accept. There's no decision that is liked by everyone.

[Nobody]

The negatives only outweight the positives if the system is not fair. In some countries elections are rigged while in the US much as people may dislike the result, there is no issue of one side disappearing opposition members, war, or other forms of partisan violence. Same thing in clans, as long as the system works fairly to enough of an extent to satisfy the members then it will work. On the other hand, clans led by one person that have no elected officials are not necessarily bad either as long as the members are happy.

 

What would be ways to make the system fair then in a Runescape clan?

 

Something similar to the set up of Tip.It. While the staff is not a clan leadership I like the system of checks and balances, if a user feels they're being unfairly treated they can contact an admin who will then take the necessary action after they investigate. In most clans there is no system that prevents abuse by the leadership, as the only choice is to leave if it becomes too much. Ideally, there would be a separate entity that guards the guards so to speak.

[obfuscator]

The best clans work top down from what I've seen. People shouldn't be able to apply for anything above event co-ordinator - and there's no need for the entire clan to vote for council and warlord. I can think of a few occasions where someone who absolutely didn't deserve a leadership position only got it because they were popular.

[OAndrew]

generaldesor for president