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Tip.it Times March 7 2010


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#41
Calebchiam
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Calebchiam

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Thanks waheera1 for sticking up for my article there :grin: . I fully agree with him, I'm glad he understands the point I was driving across with that article. To those that brush the article off as F2P player whining, I'd say that that's a very narrow way of thinking, and one that isn't really looking at the bigger picture here (which is that Jagex seems to be repeating what they did in the past one small step at a time and that MMG seems to be going against what he has previously "preached").

To clarify, I'm a free-to-play player 3/4 of the year, and pay-to-play for the rest of the year (I even have a total level of 2000+, so don't elevate yourself to a higher position because I'm a free-to-play player atm). Personally, I'm not the petty type to get thoroughly annoyed by a small (perhaps subtle) advertisement that I can click past in one second <_< . I don't approve of it, but that doesn't mean I cringe every time I login. I hope the editorial didn't come across as a complaint, because that really wasn't what it was about. Thanks.
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#42
SwreeTak
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The Ad in Disguise article was a great one. I remember the gnome copters and the video ads. I thought it was a good thing since it gave F2Pers a good view of the P2P game, but now after I have read this article I realize that it might not have been good at all. Those who have decided to play and stay F2P is of course not happy with this update.
Still, I can understand Jagex. There would be no RuneScape if Jagex didn't make any money. However why not just advertise on the main site? It is truly as it say in the article that this kind of advertising destroys the gaming spirit. Not by that terribly much, but noticeable.

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#43
X3EN
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X3EN

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Autotyping: there are people that manage to hide their autotyping, and tbh I have nothing against them. However, the GE autotypers are PROUD to use macros. They don't even care to hide the fact that they ALWAYS manage to make the same spelling mistake, ALWAYS manage to type 10 different ads in the same order, ALWAYS using same colors each time a specific ad is typed.
I would support banning such proud autoers, but, as we all know, mods don't have enough time for this, so they MIGHT (just MIGHT, which means rarely) ban an innocent player, who by luck is a community [bleep] whiner type. That will bring up the useless debate about "OMG mods always ban innocent people and now we have 50 times more autoers and no fair players!".
Back to the point, I really think that the "proud" autoers deserve a permanent mute. At least every such autotyper above level 60.

About the "hidden ads", I understand it as a COMPARISON between the gameplay/services offered. And I definitely agree that keeping them is a good idea, plus, it isn't wasting your time unless you are interested in the differences; unlike the lengthy video ads (actually, I wasn't playing by that time, so my comment may not reflect the actual experience).

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#44
zotto
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Autotyping:

it is the only thing that annoys me when I play runescape. I do not see how autotyping is in the spirit of the game. Especially not when it is mostly used to advertise merch clans, who Jagex themselves labeled as acting against the spirit of the game.

And I just cannot see how Jagex couldn't make a foolproof rule against this sort of disruptive behaviour that can be used by moderators as a basis for action and will allow regular members to report accounts who exhibit autotyping.

Can't distinguish between autotypers and people who can type real fast? Just forbid typing the same cabbage 60 times per second. We don't all have ADD. If I see a message of something selling something every 15 seconds, there is plenty of time and opportunity to track this person down and interact with them.


#45
konzserwas
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I dont see the huge fuss about autotypers, just always have your public chat on "hide" and eventually a pmod will mute them anyways.



You obviously didn't read the whole article :shame: . I even had a few of my P-mod friends try muting some of the bots on world 58 with no success. If they were even shut down at all they were back in action the next day.

I report the same ones almost daily & they're still there. It's like I'm beating my head against the wall... :wall:

Don't bother reporting them, it only wastes time that the employees could be spending looking at reports that they can actually do something about.


Reports for macroing are checked by software, not people. They don't waste anyone's time.
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#46
Nom
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Regarding the editing complaints, as editor I feel obliged to state that many of the mistakes present were actually addressed but for whatever reason slipped through the cracks when it was published. I didn't get the chance to review the final version before it was submitted.

Authors don't always take the advice of editors and there's nothing I can do about that.

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#47
Imxset
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Towards the auto-typing article, I think it is garbage.
Nobody has a WPM that high. Not only that, to be able to type at that exact speed for hours and hours and hours without making one single mistake.

Hopefully they figure something out soon, because the longer they are in the game, more players will get lured into these scam merch groups and it leads to one big disaster.
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#48
D. V. Devnull
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Both articles hit it on the mark this time. Well done, Master_Smither and Calebchiam!!! :thumbsup:

In regard to Master_Smither's "Powerless!" article, I as equally think that Jagex just needs to start cracking back down again. They can shoot first on this disruptive spam, and ask questions later, as far as I am concerned. There would be a lot less autotypers and chat-disrupting spammers in the long run, and that would be good for everyone. B)

As for Calebchiam's "Login screen - Ad in disguise?", all of Jagex needs to stick to Mark Gerhard's stance on the matter, and keep the ads out of the applet. Once launched into the applet, a player (doesn't matter if F2P or P2P) doesn't need to be worrying about "How am I gonna click past this junk?" while trying to even get logged in. They already get bothered enough (after login) about it by the "remaining credit" info box, where a link could instead be made to a feature comparison page back on the main website. Need anyone say more? :-s

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#49
stonewall337
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Regarding the editing complaints, as editor I feel obliged to state that many of the mistakes present were actually addressed but for whatever reason slipped through the cracks when it was published. I didn't get the chance to review the final version before it was submitted.

Authors don't always take the advice of editors and there's nothing I can do about that.


Yes there is, don't publish the article. If an article is that bad, then it shouldn't be presented in the Tip.It Times.

i still stand by the belief that F2P'ers are whiners, if they complain about this single ad which appears when they are logging in. Get real, they need to pay for the game somehow. Part of that payment comes from F2P people who upgrade to P2P, and advertising P2P is part of getting them to do so.

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#50
D. V. Devnull
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i still stand by the belief that F2P'ers are whiners, if they complain about this single ad which appears when they are logging in. Get real, they need to pay for the game somehow. Part of that payment comes from F2P people who upgrade to P2P, and advertising P2P is part of getting them to do so.

Do you realize that ramming P2P in someone's face is an easy way to make them NOT want to subscribe? The best online sales are most always made with reverse psychology. For those that aren't, it was done by being gentle. This method they've used is neither... LOL :lol:

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#51
waheera1
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i still stand by the belief that F2P'ers are whiners, if they complain about this single ad which appears when they are logging in. Get real, they need to pay for the game somehow. Part of that payment comes from F2P people who upgrade to P2P, and advertising P2P is part of getting them to do so.


You're still entirely missing the point of the article. It wasn't a massive spam-fest saying how awful jagex are or how disgusting it is that F2Pers have to view advertising, it was a slightly sardonic editorial regarding the ease with which MMG's alleged "black and white" views on forced advertising have been smudged into many shades of grey since the "glory days" when he famously removed the most blatant forms of advertising imposed on f2p. Similarly, the author was not questioning the business acumen of Jagex in advertising a game that will obviously make them more money through subscriptions. It is unfair to insult the intelligence of the F2P player base as a whole and Calebchiam the author, especially so as it ignores the editorial aspect of the article.

For the record, I am a fully paid-up member, but that alone does not make me a "better" person. Just because someone is an F2Per does not mean they are, by very definition, a "whiner". The article was not merely a complaint about the ad, therefore any dismissive accusation of F2P whining is considerably wide of the mark.

#52
Glove
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Regarding the 'P2P adverts' in the new log in screen, well, I didn't even realize that was there until after I read the article. I honestly just clicked past it every time since the update.

I can understand why F2P players would be upset about advertising considering the history of F2P vs. P2P and promises made to F2P players that were broken time and again. I mean, when P2P first came out Jagex said that F2P would get all the same content as P2P, just at a much slower pace; obviously, that wasn't a tenable or even minutely realistic business plan so Jagex had to scrap that. That said, the slight advertisement on the log in screen can hardly be categorized as intrusive. Runescape does need to promote members because it's not just a game, it's a product Jagex is selling because it's a business. It's possible to click past it without reading it, and there are only five items (including the gameplay hours) listed if you don't click on the 'more information' button. Nobody is being forced to sit on that page and read the comparison, and the comparison itself isn't even that in-your-face about it; this is one of the least obtrusive bits of self promotion by a company of a product I have ever seen. Let's cut Jagex a little slack here, it is a business that needs to make profit and this is hardly worse than a restaurant with a sign in the window advertising its specials; and while MMG is a little exuberant, I don't think this goes completely in the face of what he's said. There is absolutely nothing in the comparison that suggests you can't enjoy F2P and must sign up for P2P to have a good time; actually, it says quite the opposite. It says that F2P has some great stuff, P2P just has more stuff if you're interested.

Really, considering the various attention grabbing tactics of adverts today, this is barely a blip on the far corner of the radar.
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#53
Nom
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Regarding the editing complaints, as editor I feel obliged to state that many of the mistakes present were actually addressed but for whatever reason slipped through the cracks when it was published. I didn't get the chance to review the final version before it was submitted.

Authors don't always take the advice of editors and there's nothing I can do about that.


Yes there is, don't publish the article. If an article is that bad, then it shouldn't be presented in the Tip.It Times.


I have no control over what gets published.

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#54
Master_Smither
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Thanks for all the responses from everyone. One comment to make, look at the article through the title. Although yes it is a complaint over autotypers in a way, it is more of a complaint about Jagex policy and that, although being strict towards macros, fail to punish the simplest and yet most used macro in RuneScape.


Regarding the editing complaints, as editor I feel obliged to state that many of the mistakes present were actually addressed but for whatever reason slipped through the cracks when it was published. I didn't get the chance to review the final version before it was submitted.

Authors don't always take the advice of editors and there's nothing I can do about that.


Ahh and there was a mistake on my part partially. I took my article and looked at every bolded edit and changed it on my copy and therefore missed the edits that weren't in bold. I've always done it that way and didn't know you didn't bold every edit. Again as I said before, humans make mistakes.

Towards the auto-typing article, I think it is garbage.
Nobody has a WPM that high. Not only that, to be able to type at that exact speed for hours and hours and hours without making one single mistake.

Hopefully they figure something out soon, because the longer they are in the game, more players will get lured into these scam merch groups and it leads to one big disaster.


The way your first sentence was worded confused me. At first, I thought you meant my article and then I read the rest of your post and I assuming you mean Jagex policy towards autotypers are garbage, correct?
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#55
Daavorian
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There a few solutions to edit problems, one is that if you have a blatant grammatical error then just change it. Also, the use of the word relived in the macroing article was a poor one, I was confused as to how banning them would have RELIEVED the attitude until I reread a fourth time.
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#56
The_Fray
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Regarding the editing complaints, as editor I feel obliged to state that many of the mistakes present were actually addressed but for whatever reason slipped through the cracks when it was published. I didn't get the chance to review the final version before it was submitted.

Authors don't always take the advice of editors and there's nothing I can do about that.


Yes there is, don't publish the article. If an article is that bad, then it shouldn't be presented in the Tip.It Times.

i still stand by the belief that F2P'ers are whiners, if they complain about this single ad which appears when they are logging in. Get real, they need to pay for the game somehow. Part of that payment comes from F2P people who upgrade to P2P, and advertising P2P is part of getting them to do so.

I stand by the belief that people such as you are a waste of space both on Runescape and TIF. Not all F2pers care about this, and yet here you are calling them all whiners. Maybe it's time you get of your high horse, just because you pay $5 a month doesn't make you better than them. Sometimes I think you just troll threads related to F2p to get a rise out of the people here.

#57
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Ad in Disguise=++
F2P is the real game, P2P is the expansion
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#58
waheera1
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Regarding the editing complaints, as editor I feel obliged to state that many of the mistakes present were actually addressed but for whatever reason slipped through the cracks when it was published. I didn't get the chance to review the final version before it was submitted.

Authors don't always take the advice of editors and there's nothing I can do about that.


Yes there is, don't publish the article. If an article is that bad, then it shouldn't be presented in the Tip.It Times.

i still stand by the belief that F2P'ers are whiners, if they complain about this single ad which appears when they are logging in. Get real, they need to pay for the game somehow. Part of that payment comes from F2P people who upgrade to P2P, and advertising P2P is part of getting them to do so.

I stand by the belief that people such as you are a waste of space both on Runescape and TIF. Not all F2pers care about this, and yet here you are calling them all whiners. Maybe it's time you get of your high horse, just because you pay $5 a month doesn't make you better than them. Sometimes I think you just troll threads related to F2p to get a rise out of the people here.


^ What he/she said.

#59
AirWales
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I don't agree on the fact that Jagex is powerless to the auto typers. They could just introduce a very strict policy where everyone who types an X number of lines per X number of seconds should be reportable. This would result in alot of very unhappy players and a ruined gaming environment to play in for the people who type fast by nature, but I don't have the feeling Jagex would care too much about that, should they actually introduce this.

Anyway, I personally believe auto typing should be accepted if it's for the purpose of selling/buying items WITHIN the bounderies of the Grand Exchange. Any clan or other spam irrelivant to trading or the use of autotype outside of the G.E. should be reportable

#60
Racheya
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If there are any grammatical/spelling mistakes then PM Mirrorforced with them so he can change it. Simply pointing out that 'oh there are loads of mistakes' isn't helpful at all. Authors and editors are humans (I don't know why I have to keep reminding people of this fact) and can thus make mistakes.


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