Cheating... Or is it...?

[howbadisbad]

You are not gaining an unfair advantage, everyone can use mouse keys. End of story.

 

The only way you could ever have an advantage over anyone in runescape is by using a bot that plays while you are not there since no one can play while they are afk. Every other "macro" just makes the game easier for people without the skills to do it themselves. <-- Poorly worded lol

 

Example:

Player A took a class and can type 100 WPM

Player B can type 30 WPM

 

Player A has an advantage technically but he shouldn't be banned. Player B could use an autotyper to get 100 WPM. (I hope people understand what i'm trying to point out lol.)

 

In the end, there are things called cheats and exploits. This mouse is an exploit. It doesn't break any rules but uses flaws in the coding of the game to achieve AWESOMENESS. (if you call them flaws lol.)

I've got the programming skills to write my own macro - I could write one to automatically bury the 1 million bones it takes to get 99 prayer. I could develop it, test it, and the publicly release my source code.

If I used this to get 99 prayer, I wouldn't have an "unfair" advantage, because its available publicly to everyone. Its still against the rules.

 

Similarly, someone wrote a driver that when they held their mouse down, it automatically clicked at the rate to high alch. They were banned for macroing, even though they weren't gaining an unfair advantage - anyone could do this.

 

 

My point is that the way the rules are defined now, and the way Jagex polices them needs to change. And if not the rules, also the game to prevent these issues from happening (limits of input in a given update).

My biggest issue right now is it isn't very well defined how much input needs to be human, and how much can be programmed.

Autoclicking is bannable, while stroking your thumb across three buttons to do a task faster than is humanly possible isn't.

Where is the line? Is there even a line?

 

1. Your not allowed to train afk (its in the rules) and that macro could train afk.

 

2. You could afk this by taping down the mouse button or similar

 

3. Your still at the computer if you are using mousekeys but you can afk an autoclicker.

 

 

The fact that he has to input most everything by himself but the mouse makes it faster makes it ok. If this was bannable disabled people would get gf'd by Jagex. :ohnoes:

 

Exploits are win.

[Cheezy_Power]

At this point I would like to throw in that technically mousekeys Is unfair, since as far as I know Mac & Linux users don't have mousekeys...

 

Mac has them and it's also called mouse keys. Apparently you find it under "System>Universal Access>Mouse and Trackpad". For linux I believe it depends on what you're using (Gnome or KDE for example). I know for sure Ubuntu with gnome has it. Can't speak for other popular ones like red hat or fedora though.

[sees_all1]

You are not gaining an unfair advantage, everyone can use mouse keys. End of story.

 

The only way you could ever have an advantage over anyone in runescape is by using a bot that plays while you are not there since no one can play while they are afk. Every other "macro" just makes the game easier for people without the skills to do it themselves. <-- Poorly worded lol

 

Example:

Player A took a class and can type 100 WPM

Player B can type 30 WPM

 

Player A has an advantage technically but he shouldn't be banned. Player B could use an autotyper to get 100 WPM. (I hope people understand what i'm trying to point out lol.)

 

In the end, there are things called cheats and exploits. This mouse is an exploit. It doesn't break any rules but uses flaws in the coding of the game to achieve AWESOMENESS. (if you call them flaws lol.)

I've got the programming skills to write my own macro - I could write one to automatically bury the 1 million bones it takes to get 99 prayer. I could develop it, test it, and the publicly release my source code.

If I used this to get 99 prayer, I wouldn't have an "unfair" advantage, because its available publicly to everyone. Its still against the rules.

 

Similarly, someone wrote a driver that when they held their mouse down, it automatically clicked at the rate to high alch. They were banned for macroing, even though they weren't gaining an unfair advantage - anyone could do this.

 

 

My point is that the way the rules are defined now, and the way Jagex polices them needs to change. And if not the rules, also the game to prevent these issues from happening (limits of input in a given update).

My biggest issue right now is it isn't very well defined how much input needs to be human, and how much can be programmed.

Autoclicking is bannable, while stroking your thumb across three buttons to do a task faster than is humanly possible isn't.

Where is the line? Is there even a line?

 

1. Your not allowed to train afk (its in the rules) and that macro could train afk.

 

2. You could afk this by taping down the mouse button or similar

 

3. Your still at the computer if you are using mousekeys but you can afk an autoclicker.

 

 

The fact that he has to input most everything by himself but the mouse makes it faster makes it ok. If this was bannable disabled people would get gf'd by Jagex. :ohnoes:

 

Exploits are win.

 

The driver was for a tablet PC - so no, he could not do this AFK. I'm also certain that Jagex would ban me if my macro worked by getting keypresses.... Say I tilt my keyboard sideways, and each key represented a spot in my inventory. Pressing 'a' would move my mouse to the top, center-left spot... pressing enter would click it. One input, one output. This would not be AFK-able. I promise you it will get you banned. If you don't think so, PM me and I'll help you make the "exploit" happen.

[Soma2035]

Hiya,

 

The basic point is that you're OK as long as you carry out one action on your input device for every action in-game.

 

"An action" in this context is basically one of two things:

 

* Moving the pointer

* Clicking on something

 

We don't really care/need to know what kind of input device you use. Could be a traditional mouse, a trackball, a touchpad, a graphics tablet, a touch screen... the hardware's not important.

 

The key thing is that every time you want the on-screen pointer to move somewhere, you must make a movement on/with your input device that exactly corresponds with the on-screen movement. And every time you want to click on something on-screen, you must carry out a click using your device.

 

There are two main ways to set up a programmable button on your device (well, probably more, but two that are relevant to what we're discussing here).

 

* To launch a single command of your choice.

* To launch a pre-defined sequence of movements/clicks.

 

Launching a single command is fine, launching a sequence is not.

 

So for example, you might have a mouse with 8 buttons on it, and you might decide to set it up so that pressing button 5 has the same effect as pressing F5 on your keyboard. That would be fine.

 

But if you set button 6 up so that it moved the pointer in a specific direction, clicked on a certain spot, moved somewhere else, clicked again, moved back... well, you get the idea. Not OK.

 

Once again, the spirit of the rule is that one action = one action. One movement = one movement. One click = one click.

 

Now, if you really know what you're doing, you might be able to set up your device so that, although you're still performing one action per onscreen action, you can do this to train in a really efficient way. That's not against the rules.

 

But...

 

...beyond a certain point, if you're too efficient it can become very difficult to tell the difference between what you're doing, and what a machine/automated solution/program would be doing.

 

I can't go into very much detail about this, as I'm sure you will all understand. But I have spoken to Mod Mark L in the macro investigation team, and he says it is something that they are actively looking into.

 

Obviously we want to make sure our detection methods are as tight as possible so that we continue catching anyone who is trying to cheat, while not unfairly penalising players who are playing honorably, just super-efficiently.

 

So to sum up, it's OK to use any input device you choose, as long as you don't use any automated functions. All of your inputs into the game must be done manually, by you, one-to-one.

 

-JH

 

The question has been answered. If the player in the video wasn't lying when he explained how he did it (I choose to believe him, it's your choice whether you do or not), then he is not cheating. However, I don't recommend buying the mouse however, it's likely we may see the mechanics of herb cleaning and bolt fletching changed. Or possibly a revamp of a rule long needing a rewrite...

[Lider_V]

[hide]

Hiya,

 

The basic point is that you're OK as long as you carry out one action on your input device for every action in-game.

 

"An action" in this context is basically one of two things:

 

* Moving the pointer

* Clicking on something

 

We don't really care/need to know what kind of input device you use. Could be a traditional mouse, a trackball, a touchpad, a graphics tablet, a touch screen... the hardware's not important.

 

The key thing is that every time you want the on-screen pointer to move somewhere, you must make a movement on/with your input device that exactly corresponds with the on-screen movement. And every time you want to click on something on-screen, you must carry out a click using your device.

 

There are two main ways to set up a programmable button on your device (well, probably more, but two that are relevant to what we're discussing here).

 

* To launch a single command of your choice.

* To launch a pre-defined sequence of movements/clicks.

 

Launching a single command is fine, launching a sequence is not.

 

So for example, you might have a mouse with 8 buttons on it, and you might decide to set it up so that pressing button 5 has the same effect as pressing F5 on your keyboard. That would be fine.

 

But if you set button 6 up so that it moved the pointer in a specific direction, clicked on a certain spot, moved somewhere else, clicked again, moved back... well, you get the idea. Not OK.

 

Once again, the spirit of the rule is that one action = one action. One movement = one movement. One click = one click.

 

Now, if you really know what you're doing, you might be able to set up your device so that, although you're still performing one action per onscreen action, you can do this to train in a really efficient way. That's not against the rules.

 

But...

 

...beyond a certain point, if you're too efficient it can become very difficult to tell the difference between what you're doing, and what a machine/automated solution/program would be doing.

 

I can't go into very much detail about this, as I'm sure you will all understand. But I have spoken to Mod Mark L in the macro investigation team, and he says it is something that they are actively looking into.

 

Obviously we want to make sure our detection methods are as tight as possible so that we continue catching anyone who is trying to cheat, while not unfairly penalising players who are playing honorably, just super-efficiently.

 

So to sum up, it's OK to use any input device you choose, as long as you don't use any automated functions. All of your inputs into the game must be done manually, by you, one-to-one.

 

-JH

 

The question has been answered. If the player in the video wasn't lying when he explained how he did it (I choose to believe him, it's your choice whether you do or not), then he is not cheating. However, I don't recommend buying the mouse however, it's likely we may see the mechanics of herb cleaning and bolt fletching changed. Or possibly a revamp of a rule long needing a rewrite...

[/hide]

 

Finally an answer^^

 

I'm happy with my new mouse since it is really good and has the ability to let me be more efficient in runescape (and other places too) :)

 

All ends well :D

[3PointMan]

If somebody doesn't want to read that, this is the important part.

 

"So for example, you might have a mouse with 8 buttons on it, and you might decide to set it up so that pressing button 5 has the same effect as pressing F5 on your keyboard. That would be fine. "

 

Thats what the guy is doing and thats what I do. It is NOT cheating!

[sees_all1]

It's still not clear if the buttons you program can move your mouse to an absolute position, or if it is only relative positions...

If its absolute positions, it makes programming "helpers" a cinch. If its relative only, it makes programming a *little* more difficult, and more steps will be involved.

 

Whatever, Jagex has opened the floodgates.

[Lider_V]

It's still not clear if the buttons you program can move your mouse to an absolute position, or if it is only relative positions...

If its absolute positions, it makes programming "helpers" a cinch. If its relative only, it makes programming a *little* more difficult, and more steps will be involved.

 

Whatever, Jagex has opened the floodgates.

 

I believe only relative positions, but I really don't know.

 

What I'll be doing is only relative positions (mousekeys assigned to mouse buttons), which is good enough for me^^

[Unb34t4bl3]

If programming a loop that sends left clicks until told to stop/start has the same result as this mouse, then I'd consider it cheating. I mean, say someone does this (and anyone with any bit of programming knowledge knows this would be no more than a few lines of code) and get's banned, they can just appeal and go, "Dear Jagex, I was using a G9 mouse pl0x. Please unban me pl0x as I was not doing anything against the rules".

 

Thats what the guy is doing and thats what I do. It is NOT cheating!

 

Not a chance. It's near impossible to click nonstop and have that much control/precision over your mouse movements. Less than a second with over 9000 clicks? That's physically impossible.

 

It's a lot easier to do similar to what was shown in the video with mousekeys enabled (one hand hitting 5 on the numpad, and the other just moving the mouse). But with that method, your physically every bit of input. And it takes a few seconds to get through the herbs...

 

This isn't a case of having better hardware. This is literally having hardware do something for you. You can't physically give yourself better frames per second, but you can physically send mouse clicks to the game. And how does hardware alone even do something for you? It needs some kind of software either programming into itself, or the operating system.

[geekdude]

I have the Logitech g15 keyboard. It has three sets of six programmable keys. Each key can take the function of another button or group of buttons. Many people who have this keyboard use the "G-keys" and remap a few of them to act as mouse keys. They can set the dpi of their mice and easily do repetitive tasks like drop logs, combine potions, etc, and they have never been banned. Honestly, any way they try and combat these players who have these technologies will ultimately result in a deprivation of fun for other players. They will either add a "do-x" function in Herb lore reducing the experience rates even more so causing less excitement in an already bland skill.

[Skeptical]

I hardly see how that's cheating.

[Soma2035]

If programming a loop that sends left clicks until told to stop/start has the same result as this mouse, then I'd consider it cheating. I mean, say someone does this (and anyone with any bit of programming knowledge knows this would be no more than a few lines of code) and get's banned, they can just appeal and go, "Dear Jagex, I was using a G9 mouse pl0x. Please unban me pl0x as I was not doing anything against the rules".

 

Thats what the guy is doing and thats what I do. It is NOT cheating!

 

Not a chance. It's near impossible to click nonstop and have that much control/precision over your mouse movements. Less than a second with over 9000 clicks? That's physically impossible.

 

It's a lot easier to do similar to what was shown in the video with mousekeys enabled (one hand hitting 5 on the numpad, and the other just moving the mouse). But with that method, your physically every bit of input. And it takes a few seconds to get through the herbs...

 

This isn't a case of having better hardware. This is literally having hardware do something for you. You can't physically give yourself better frames per second, but you can physically send mouse clicks to the game. And how does hardware alone even do something for you? It needs some kind of software either programming into itself, or the operating system.

 

Over 9000 clicks? Either you're making a lame joke that hasn't been funny for years, or you can't count. As far as I can tell, it's far less than 100 clicks.

 

Now, I'd like to remind you that without having used this mouse in person, we have no idea whether or not it's possible. But, to that ends:

 

http://www.urban75.com/Mag/java7.html

 

That's a simply little game I found while browsing another forum the other day. The topic was just to compare scores. Most scores ranged from as low as 40, to as high as 150. My first score was 95, the second was closer to 100.

 

People can click a lot faster than you think. Now consider that if the buttons are aligned properly, releasing one button (by moving your finger to the side) is the same motion as pressing the second. 28 times per second isn't unreasonable.

 

His mouse control may just be very, very precise. I wouldn't doubt it - I personally could probably manage to move my mouse as demonstrated in the video, at roughly that speed, with enough accuracy to hit every herb.

[Stev]

I can only get 8373 clicks a second using a script. :P

 

Edit: Nvm, got it to just over 9.8K. ^^.

[Unb34t4bl3]

If programming a loop that sends left clicks until told to stop/start has the same result as this mouse, then I'd consider it cheating. I mean, say someone does this (and anyone with any bit of programming knowledge knows this would be no more than a few lines of code) and get's banned, they can just appeal and go, "Dear Jagex, I was using a G9 mouse pl0x. Please unban me pl0x as I was not doing anything against the rules".

 

Thats what the guy is doing and thats what I do. It is NOT cheating!

 

Not a chance. It's near impossible to click nonstop and have that much control/precision over your mouse movements. Less than a second with over 9000 clicks? That's physically impossible.

 

It's a lot easier to do similar to what was shown in the video with mousekeys enabled (one hand hitting 5 on the numpad, and the other just moving the mouse). But with that method, your physically every bit of input. And it takes a few seconds to get through the herbs...

 

This isn't a case of having better hardware. This is literally having hardware do something for you. You can't physically give yourself better frames per second, but you can physically send mouse clicks to the game. And how does hardware alone even do something for you? It needs some kind of software either programming into itself, or the operating system.

 

Over 9000 clicks? Either you're making a lame joke that hasn't been funny for years, or you can't count. As far as I can tell, it's far less than 100 clicks.

 

Now, I'd like to remind you that without having used this mouse in person, we have no idea whether or not it's possible. But, to that ends:

 

http://www.urban75.com/Mag/java7.html

 

That's a simply little game I found while browsing another forum the other day. The topic was just to compare scores. Most scores ranged from as low as 40, to as high as 150. My first score was 95, the second was closer to 100.

 

People can click a lot faster than you think. Now consider that if the buttons are aligned properly, releasing one button (by moving your finger to the side) is the same motion as pressing the second. 28 times per second isn't unreasonable.

 

His mouse control may just be very, very precise. I wouldn't doubt it - I personally could probably manage to move my mouse as demonstrated in the video, at roughly that speed, with enough accuracy to hit every herb.

 

I guess you missed the first word in my reply, so I'll make sure you see it this time: IF

 

By the way? 100 clicks in 10 seconds? You'd have to be be able to pull of 300 clicks per 10 seconds, not to mention be able to precisely move the mouse of the herbs while doing it. And then do it continuously without experiencing any fatigue. I don't know what a G9 does, but that's why I started with that giant word above.

 

If he is sending every bit of input, then it's legal. But if he's hitting a button that activates a series of commands, that's no different than me writing a script and hitting a button my keyboard telling it to the same.

 

... IF

[Soma2035]

If programming a loop that sends left clicks until told to stop/start has the same result as this mouse, then I'd consider it cheating. I mean, say someone does this (and anyone with any bit of programming knowledge knows this would be no more than a few lines of code) and get's banned, they can just appeal and go, "Dear Jagex, I was using a G9 mouse pl0x. Please unban me pl0x as I was not doing anything against the rules".

 

Thats what the guy is doing and thats what I do. It is NOT cheating!

 

Not a chance. It's near impossible to click nonstop and have that much control/precision over your mouse movements. Less than a second with over 9000 clicks? That's physically impossible.

 

It's a lot easier to do similar to what was shown in the video with mousekeys enabled (one hand hitting 5 on the numpad, and the other just moving the mouse). But with that method, your physically every bit of input. And it takes a few seconds to get through the herbs...

 

This isn't a case of having better hardware. This is literally having hardware do something for you. You can't physically give yourself better frames per second, but you can physically send mouse clicks to the game. And how does hardware alone even do something for you? It needs some kind of software either programming into itself, or the operating system.

 

Over 9000 clicks? Either you're making a lame joke that hasn't been funny for years, or you can't count. As far as I can tell, it's far less than 100 clicks.

 

Now, I'd like to remind you that without having used this mouse in person, we have no idea whether or not it's possible. But, to that ends:

 

http://www.urban75.com/Mag/java7.html

 

That's a simply little game I found while browsing another forum the other day. The topic was just to compare scores. Most scores ranged from as low as 40, to as high as 150. My first score was 95, the second was closer to 100.

 

People can click a lot faster than you think. Now consider that if the buttons are aligned properly, releasing one button (by moving your finger to the side) is the same motion as pressing the second. 28 times per second isn't unreasonable.

 

His mouse control may just be very, very precise. I wouldn't doubt it - I personally could probably manage to move my mouse as demonstrated in the video, at roughly that speed, with enough accuracy to hit every herb.

 

I guess you missed the first word in my reply, so I'll make sure you see it this time: IF

 

By the way? 100 clicks in 10 seconds? You'd have to be be able to pull of 300 clicks per 10 seconds, not to mention be able to precisely move the mouse of the herbs while doing it. And then do it continuously without experiencing any fatigue. I don't know what a G9 does, but that's why I started with that giant word above.

 

If he is sending every bit of input, then it's legal. But if he's hitting a button that activates a series of commands, that's no different than me writing a script and hitting a button my keyboard telling it to the same.

 

... IF

 

My apologies. I started reading from underneath the quote so I missed the entire first paragraph. My mistake.

[brunokiller]

Once again, the spirit of the rule is that one action = one action. One movement = one movement. One click = one click.

 

Question answered, (using a click spammer is against the rules), thread can be closed.

[pulli23]

If programming a loop that sends left clicks until told to stop/start has the same result as this mouse, then I'd consider it cheating. I mean, say someone does this (and anyone with any bit of programming knowledge knows this would be no more than a few lines of code) and get's banned, they can just appeal and go, "Dear Jagex, I was using a G9 mouse pl0x. Please unban me pl0x as I was not doing anything against the rules".

 

Thats what the guy is doing and thats what I do. It is NOT cheating!

 

Not a chance. It's near impossible to click nonstop and have that much control/precision over your mouse movements. Less than a second with over 9000 clicks? That's physically impossible.

 

It's a lot easier to do similar to what was shown in the video with mousekeys enabled (one hand hitting 5 on the numpad, and the other just moving the mouse). But with that method, your physically every bit of input. And it takes a few seconds to get through the herbs...

 

This isn't a case of having better hardware. This is literally having hardware do something for you. You can't physically give yourself better frames per second, but you can physically send mouse clicks to the game. And how does hardware alone even do something for you? It needs some kind of software either programming into itself, or the operating system.

roller key binding to the left-mouse button?

 

I can change the resistance while rolling, as well as the rate ( number of degrees before giving a new "positive") of my mouse.. Resulting in thousands upon thousands of clicks a second (if I change the rate to 0.36 degrees -the maximum-), I can do a full-wheel turn in like half a second, meaning 2000 "events" a second.. - Probably maybe even 4000-8000..

[sees_all1]

roller key binding to the left-mouse button?

 

I can change the resistance while rolling, as well as the rate ( number of degrees before giving a new "positive") of my mouse.. Resulting in thousands upon thousands of clicks a second (if I change the rate to 0.36 degrees -the maximum-), I can do a full-wheel turn in like half a second, meaning 2000 "events" a second.. - Probably maybe even 4000-8000..

If you feel the wheel, it only gets input when it "ticks"... unless your mouse is overkill and uses analog input instead of digital.

Anything more than one action per tick would be cheating.

[pulli23]

roller key binding to the left-mouse button?

 

I can change the resistance while rolling, as well as the rate ( number of degrees before giving a new "positive") of my mouse.. Resulting in thousands upon thousands of clicks a second (if I change the rate to 0.36 degrees -the maximum-), I can do a full-wheel turn in like half a second, meaning 2000 "events" a second.. - Probably maybe even 4000-8000..

If you feel the wheel, it only gets input when it "ticks"... unless your mouse is overkill and uses analog input instead of digital.

Anything more than one action per tick would be cheating.

My mouse has a "button" to remove these "ticks" / "resistance".... So with 1 turn it can actually spin "endlessly"... (alright probably only 10-20 rounds).. In that mode I can say how much of a turn would force an event. Still digital, but considerably higher performance (0.36 degrees is the smallest portion it can notice).

[sheep455_is_the_best]

QFC: 15-16-402-60600369

 

A discussion on something similar, with JMod posts explaining. But the interesting thing is Mod Jon H answering a question:

 

"...every time you want the on-screen pointer to move somewhere, you must make a movement on/with your input device that exactly corresponds with the on-screen movement."

 

Pre-defining any movement to be perfectly repeated over and over at the click of a single button is fairly obviously not OK.

Page 9 of the thread.

 

Would this not include mousekey movement? Perfectly repeated at the click of a button. Hmm?

[Ronan]

Would this not include mousekey movement? Perfectly repeated at the click of a button. Hmm?

That's what I thought when I read that Mod's reply too - I guess if you were using MouseKeys without the 'accelerated' movement, allowing for the 'jump' then perhaps it complies partially as you need to hold down the key to move the mouse-pointer gradually, but otherwise it's simply a single press of a button to a fixed movement of the mouse-pointer, seems kind of contradictory to me! :blink:

[PereGrin]

Whatever he is doing is programmed - There is no hardware that will do that.

Because it is programmed, it is third party software.

 

If he's allowed to do this, I don't see why I'm not allowed to do that in software, which triggers when I hit some key, maybe a function key?

 

 

 

 

The simple fix to this is on Jagex's side - don't allow more than one or two actions per update. That way, they'll be forced to doing tasks at the same speed as the rest of us.

 

There is hardware that could do that. But your argument is moot anyway, because in fact when you click on your own mouse just once, the pressure does not travel throught the cord, and through your computer, and actually press on that herb. What in face happens is a small potential difference is generated between your mouse and the computer. The potential difference causes charge to flow along your mouse cord, into the computer where it is then interpreted by SOFTWARE as a "click". Hell, why not just build a mouse and have it display 28 pointer images on the screen, and a click would cause all of them to "click". It would not actually take any "new" sort of program, the mouse supplies you plug in could just have this function just like a normal mouse you plug in moves a single pointer across the screen.

 

Perhaps you could hold controll to remove the 27 extra pointers for banking purposes.

 

That would function exactly like your mouse fuctions now, the software controlling the clicks would be identical to the one you are using to click "add reply" to this thread.

[Nagrom_17]

QFC: 15-16-402-60600369

 

A discussion on something similar, with JMod posts explaining. But the interesting thing is Mod Jon H answering a question:

 

"...every time you want the on-screen pointer to move somewhere, you must make a movement on/with your input device that exactly corresponds with the on-screen movement."

 

Pre-defining any movement to be perfectly repeated over and over at the click of a single button is fairly obviously not OK.

Page 9 of the thread.

 

Would this not include mousekey movement? Perfectly repeated at the click of a button. Hmm?

That would not inclue mousekey movement since he says "Pre-defining any movement to be perfectly repeated over and over at the click of a single button is fairly obviously not OK."

Mouse keys do no do more then one action per button press/click nor do they repeat anything with a single click

 

one Thing I am wondering about is would making my own version of mouse keys(since i am on ubuntu and do not like the native mousekeys) using scripts be ok?

To clarify before i get flamed I am talking about just setting numpad 5 to run a little script that would activate a normal click once. no repeating or anything. I would probably do the same thing with up,down,left,and right. It seems to me like it would match the windows version of mousekeys EXACTLY except having the keys run little scripts(which is what it does behind the scenes in windows) instead of being native to the os.

[Assume Nothing]

roller key binding to the left-mouse button?

 

I can change the resistance while rolling, as well as the rate ( number of degrees before giving a new "positive") of my mouse.. Resulting in thousands upon thousands of clicks a second (if I change the rate to 0.36 degrees -the maximum-), I can do a full-wheel turn in like half a second, meaning 2000 "events" a second.. - Probably maybe even 4000-8000..

If you feel the wheel, it only gets input when it "ticks"... unless your mouse is overkill and uses analog input instead of digital.

Anything more than one action per tick would be cheating.

My mouse has a "button" to remove these "ticks" / "resistance".... So with 1 turn it can actually spin "endlessly"... (alright probably only 10-20 rounds).. In that mode I can say how much of a turn would force an event. Still digital, but considerably higher performance (0.36 degrees is the smallest portion it can notice).

 

Very interesting, I must've previously misread and thought it was just mousekeys. But there's a flaw with the roller key, how would you move your mouse precisely over the herbs and how would you prevent 'dragging' of the herbs instead of cleaning? Hmm, the only problem I'm having with herb cleaning is moving to the second row, it wastes so much time.

 

Hmmm.