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Tip.it Times 21 March 2010


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#41
MistressGlo
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I have nothing to say about article #1 that I haven't already said in the Shattered Heart thread here.

I couldn't disagree more vehemently with article #2.

It was Beowulf who killed Grendel - not Beowulf & Eye1HitU in a team effort.
It was Hercules who cleaned the Augean stables - not Hercules, Sparkles129 & FumbDuck.

I could throw out other literary examples... but the point is it's a singular hero that takes on the task & gets the glory. That's what we remember & glorify. That's what I expect from my MMO.

More quests where you have to work in pairs or trios or more would drive me to canceling my subscription.


I agree with you on article #2 . I love playing RS and have been playing four years. I became a member after 2 weeks of free play. I talk to my friends, but I do most of my activities on my own. Not everyone plays just to kill a boss or to be in a clan. Playing RS is a way I like to relax instead of watching TV, etc. If Jagex started making the quests where I had to depend on another person to complete it then I would have no sense of individual accomplishment. ATM you have a choice to do things as a group or as an individual. That to me is the best of both worlds. They offer mini games that are group ways of training skills such as the Blast Furnace, Stealing Creation, Barbarian Assault, and Trouble Brewing. To counter balance those they have mini games that can be done as an individual such as Beacon Network, Jade Vine, Phoenix Lair, and more. If Jagex starts making the majority of their updates to cater to only those who think we must do things in groups and that "single players should be less effective than their cooperating counterparts" isn't that like saying unless we play as a group we are not as important. People who would rather not do the group thing work just as hard to achieve their levels and accomplishments and are just as important to this game as those who play in groups.


I want to add that I am not so great at combat skills ... I get nervous, don't always make a good decision, have slower reflexes than alot of people so I like the fact that people who are good at combat skills can get armour/weapon drops and they are tradable which allows me to buy them. I use other skills not combat skills to earn my cash. Players that use their combat skills to make cash by selling good armour/weapons drops they get are glad probably very glad those items are tradable.
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#42
lordkafei
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lordkafei

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Not gonna lie, I'm appalled at the intolerance being shown on these forums this week.

Just because someone disagrees with you does not mean that they are wrong, their opinions are invalid, or that you must therefore ignore the real reasons for their comments and, instead, get your kicks trying to smash their argument to the ground.

The articles were fine, the responses to them should embarrass those who have indulged their peculiar fetish for directing deprecating comments at complete strangers.


Sweeping generalizations like this are far more intolerant than thoughtful dissent.

I stand behind every comment I made.

PvP is not for me

In the 3rd Year of the Boycott
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Real-world time saved since FT/W: Thousands of Hours


#43
Tritous
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...

The only solution after this 7000 post thread (had to be remade 3 times) was to cut off the level cap. Keep 99 capes, but allow it to go past it. I've not yet found a proper formula for the exp per level (and I did a big analysis as practice for maths at uni), but we can estimate a few things: anyone with 200m exp probably wont even reach lvl 110. To get to lvl 120 you are probably into multiple billions for exp, dont ask about lvl 130.....So what good is that?

...


I've seen the formula online somewhere (a long time ago) and put it in my omnibus spreadsheet.
I put it on Rapidshare if you want to look at it (MD5: CB979BDEA574A8CA91BE18C318318122).



While I appreciate the effort, you are quite a long chunk off. I can guarantee it is not a polynomial less than order 98 as the langrangian method i used will get a guaranteed perfect formula for any power less then the number of items. I did try various exponentials and iterative formulae too but cannot make as bold a statement as to guarantee it's not one, just that it's not a simple one. as we are looking to extrapolate values, we have to be very careful with formulae to be accurate. One thing we can say is the levels past 99 require huge exp! You have your lvl 149-150 needing 200m exp, can you imagine the thrill of being the first to get lvl 150 and discover a new item to be made, or a new ore to mine (which takes about a day per ore ;))
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#44
lordkafei
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While I appreciate the effort, you are quite a long chunk off. I can guarantee it is not a polynomial less than order 98 as the langrangian method i used will get a guaranteed perfect formula for any power less then the number of items. I did try various exponentials and iterative formulae too but cannot make as bold a statement as to guarantee it's not one, just that it's not a simple one. as we are looking to extrapolate values, we have to be very careful with formulae to be accurate. One thing we can say is the levels past 99 require huge exp! You have your lvl 149-150 needing 200m exp, can you imagine the thrill of being the first to get lvl 150 and discover a new item to be made, or a new ore to mine (which takes about a day per ore ;))


If you look again you will clearly see the 200,000,000 mark is just before level 126 (the column labeled Intermediate), not level 149-150. You are misplacing your commas. I admit I could have formatted that a little better.

The Level label is a bit misleading; as the XP matches to the points for the next level (i.e., 83 gets you to 2, 13034431 gets you to 99)

I didn't come up with the formula, but it matches every level from 1-99; I have no reason to believe it's different above 99.

PvP is not for me

In the 3rd Year of the Boycott
Real-world money saved since FT/W: Hundreds of Dollars
Real-world time saved since FT/W: Thousands of Hours


#45
Jehosaphat
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First article was fine. Second article....

I played a long time ago, back when Clan Chats were released. (If I remember correctly, I quit a week after that due to having an account scammed(I was really stupid back then.)) I remember trying to find a partner for Shield of Arrav - if it weren't for an IRL friend, doing that quest on my first account would have been sheer hell. Even trying to start it on my second account, which was created and promptly forgotten for a year and a half after the first had been lost, was hell. So, if they release more content that requires people to work together, I'm going to be altogether angry. Now, I'm all for specialization. But for a team of specialists to be necessary to do something.... I would prefer to avoid. Because getting together a team of specialists to do so is, well, as mentioned before - sheer hell. Good example - BA. You can do it with a group of friends, which turns out fine. But if your BA friends aren't online, you get to go to W6 and pray you find a group who actually knows what they're doing.

Tl;dr: Specialization is fine, but needing group specialization isn't, because friends aren't always there and when they aren't, you'd have to fight through a wave of idiots to find someone who knows what they're doing.
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#46
waheera1
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Not gonna lie, I'm appalled at the intolerance being shown on these forums this week.

Just because someone disagrees with you does not mean that they are wrong, their opinions are invalid, or that you must therefore ignore the real reasons for their comments and, instead, get your kicks trying to smash their argument to the ground.

The articles were fine, the responses to them should embarrass those who have indulged their peculiar fetish for directing deprecating comments at complete strangers.


Sweeping generalizations like this are far more intolerant than thoughtful dissent.

I stand behind every comment I made.


Well in fairness I haven't insulted anyone... I'm not suggesting we must all agree with the articles, because frankly I don't either. I'm also not making a sweeping generalization about every person who has replied to this thread, which I thought would have been obvious since certain people clearly haven't written rude or intolerant comments. What disappointed me in reading the forum posts on this topic this week is that several people have taken an aggressive tone with others whose opinions they disagree with.

To Canadiansmurf: You've misunderstood me (understandably so) - I'm not saying I particularly liked either of the articles this week, but they were at least innocuous and not insulting. Coming to read the forum feedback it seems there are a select few who would rather force their own opinion and style of gameplay on others, irrespective of that person's own opinion. That was what irritated me and led me to post my previous comment.

If you are not the kind of person to whom the first comment I posted applies, then there is no need to take offence at it. Simple as that.

#47
Tritous
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While I appreciate the effort, you are quite a long chunk off. I can guarantee it is not a polynomial less than order 98 as the langrangian method i used will get a guaranteed perfect formula for any power less then the number of items. I did try various exponentials and iterative formulae too but cannot make as bold a statement as to guarantee it's not one, just that it's not a simple one. as we are looking to extrapolate values, we have to be very careful with formulae to be accurate. One thing we can say is the levels past 99 require huge exp! You have your lvl 149-150 needing 200m exp, can you imagine the thrill of being the first to get lvl 150 and discover a new item to be made, or a new ore to mine (which takes about a day per ore ;))


If you look again you will clearly see the 200,000,000 mark is just before level 126 (the column labeled Intermediate), not level 149-150. You are misplacing your commas. I admit I could have formatted that a little better.

The Level label is a bit misleading; as the XP matches to the points for the next level (i.e., 83 gets you to 2, 13034431 gets you to 99)

I didn't come up with the formula, but it matches every level from 1-99; I have no reason to believe it's different above 99.


Ah, so it's offset by a level, meaning the true formula XP(L)=XP(L-1)+FLOOR(X-1+6.1224*(x-1)^2)/4, or rather that the xp difference is FLOOR(X-1+6.1224*(x-1)^2)/4. being a function of X-1 rather an X definately would break the lagrangian formula. Kudos to the one who developed it

For the record, i meant that from 149-150 there is a 200m exp difference. 149 = 2,033,749,558 ; 150 = 2,245,441,392
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#48
Kimberly
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That was a nice review of Shattered Hearts. I was personally really frustrated that such a thing took so long to achieve the PoH statue. It is, after all, a distraction/diversion. With how long it takes to obtain that and how hard some of the pieces are to obtain, it becomes less a pleasant little 'distraction' and more like a very heavy effort-based activity, like that of a minigame. I still have the same opinion--that it's not really an adequate D&D--but seeing it from a different opinion helps understand why people think that way :P

Second article was very lovely, but I disagree with something: Just as one person might want to work together, others may not. That's why I think that if Jagex does decide to move forward with diversification, that the older structures (bosses and activities) should remain untouched. If I wanted to hybrid DKs for example, I would. I don't. I interact with my clan and within my clan I "specialize" as you mention. Quite a bit, actually. But I don't want to do things like boss hunting with other people ALL the time. And I shouldn't be at a disadvantage for that unless it's clearly an activity that shouldn't be done alone, such as Corp.

Everything else, I think was spot on.

hzvjpwS.gif


#49
applyapple
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I'm not sure what others have said, but these are my personal opinions on the article complaining about all of the changes to RS (the ge one).

Firstly, I think the diversity stuff is true and perfect.

However, I have some points I would like to bring up related to the opinions stated on the grand exchange.

1.I am a very even skiller and prefer questing to skilling. (combat 81, total 1325. My skills range from 43 runecrafting to 66 cooking. I have 259 quest points).

2.I don't buy equipment off the GE.

3.I believe a strong point of the GE is to sell off useless stuff I have.

4. I hate it when people make a ton of money & buy high skill levels (especially herblore, one of my personal favorite skills).

As a skiller, I believe the GE rewards those who can't actually work for the stuff they use.
However, as a quester, the GE is my salvation. Jagex creates high level item requisites for their quests. I, being a moderate level skiller but resourceful enough to handle myself during hard quests, don't want to get stuck on a quest just because I can't get ahold of a high level item (magic logs are a common one). The GE has actually made it possible for a moderate level skiller to get ahold of resources that it can take extremely high level skills to obtain, and I wouldn't have completed nearly as many quests without it.
Ummmmmm.....................
Not much to say.

If you want to find me in Runescape, my name is not applyapple. It is vetoscadiva.

Complain as you like about Jagex, but think about what they've done. How many MMORPG designers go around to creating as complex an in-game world as Jagex? They do need to get around to making a equipable knife, though.

With everyone's complaining about updates, it's amzing that there isn't a forum topic on the fact that the chat box says "You can't reach that" (as opposed to "I can't reach that!").

#50
pulli23
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Second article

I think you should remember how hard it was being a free player trying to finish Shield of Arrov... no forum access, no clanchat to ask on... I'd hardly call standing in varrok square shouting your intentions to be socializing.

then socialize first and AFTER that do the quest?


This wasn't really a problem at all when the quests came out, people were way less goal focussed back then..

First they came to fishing
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't fishing

Then they came to the yews
and I didn't speak out because I didn't cut yews

Then they came for the ores
and I didn't speak out because I didn't collect ores

Then they came for me
and there was no one left to speak out for me.


#51
pulli23
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While I appreciate the effort, you are quite a long chunk off. I can guarantee it is not a polynomial less than order 98 as the langrangian method i used will get a guaranteed perfect formula for any power less then the number of items. I did try various exponentials and iterative formulae too but cannot make as bold a statement as to guarantee it's not one, just that it's not a simple one. as we are looking to extrapolate values, we have to be very careful with formulae to be accurate. One thing we can say is the levels past 99 require huge exp! You have your lvl 149-150 needing 200m exp, can you imagine the thrill of being the first to get lvl 150 and discover a new item to be made, or a new ore to mine (which takes about a day per ore ;))


If you look again you will clearly see the 200,000,000 mark is just before level 126 (the column labeled Intermediate), not level 149-150. You are misplacing your commas. I admit I could have formatted that a little better.

The Level label is a bit misleading; as the XP matches to the points for the next level (i.e., 83 gets you to 2, 13034431 gets you to 99)

I didn't come up with the formula, but it matches every level from 1-99; I have no reason to believe it's different above 99.


Ah, so it's offset by a level, meaning the true formula XP(L)=XP(L-1)+FLOOR(X-1+6.1224*(x-1)^2)/4, or rather that the xp difference is FLOOR(X-1+6.1224*(x-1)^2)/4. being a function of X-1 rather an X definately would break the lagrangian formula. Kudos to the one who developed it

For the record, i meant that from 149-150 there is a 200m exp difference. 149 = 2,033,749,558 ; 150 = 2,245,441,392

Uhm: by noticing every 7 levels the amount of xp doubles you should be thinking about "powers" f(x) = n ^ X type functions... Otherwise you'll never get the idea that every 7-levels the xp doubles.. clearly not a polynom

First they came to fishing
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't fishing

Then they came to the yews
and I didn't speak out because I didn't cut yews

Then they came for the ores
and I didn't speak out because I didn't collect ores

Then they came for me
and there was no one left to speak out for me.


#52
Tritous
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Tritous

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I don't remember doing summations of polynomials, it was an area that was rarely of value to my degree. I can say that i did try fitting of exponential formulae without sucess, it's not that simple. I'd also point out that the "doubles every 7 levels" is not accurate, especially for the majority of the lower levels where it doubles around every 5 or the very low levels where it's obviously highly skewed
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-Me




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