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Tip.it Times 4 April 2010


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#21
Zepheras
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Zepheras

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God how tired I am of hearing about clans. My favorite part of Runescape is its primary focus on individual play and individual accomplishment.


play an rpg then, not an mmorpg.


Um,no? I like interacting with people. I don't mind competing with people. I like to achieve things with other people trying to do the same. I like that I'm not forced into group activities like you are in WoW. I'm just very, very over hearing about clans when I don't think that many people are even in them.

The community opinion seems to be if you don't agree with the community opinion you need to quit our game.


Clans actually play no part in runescape. RS Could easily survive without them. The only times you need to have participation with other people is when you're FORCED to. EG Heroes quest, Shield of Arrav etc. You HAVE to use people. But anyways, clans are not needed in RS. Sure things they can be helpful. Finding a PC clan, or the SC clan or whatever will help you alot doing some things, however it's not needed is it?

Clans are therefore not an integral part of RS. Just like they're not in some other places like Halo 3 online. You don't need a clan, but my girlfriends brother and I are making one. Therefore they have no real purpose in a game. Updates should be made for all players not just for clans.


Why not? I find that games that provide some form of team/club/guild/clan formation tend to keep their players longer. You have the sense of belonging to the group, the tendency to log in for some group event, or just to chat with fellow members, and provide/ask for advice/help. The article isn't suggesting teamwork gameplay, just more in-game clan support. An actual location in game to provide a clan base (much like your POH), and proper registration of a clan and its members, a page on the RuneScape to list down registered clans etc.....

The supposed 'clan chat' seems more like a group chat function to me, not an actual clan system, even though there's ranking system.


Ugh, "belonging to the group?" That thought alone makes me feel queasy.


Why do you need in game clan support when say they have websites? And they can all meet in a POH. What's the point in another room but this time for clans? There isn't. They already is a dining hall which could be seen as a meeting hall for clan people, there is so much you can do in a POH that people in clans don't know or understand how to utilise it properly. The article is suggesting updates like that which is a pointless idea. I mean c'mon, based on the suggestions he's got what will be the point in skill and quest halls? There wont be one. Or what will be the point in the clan room? Apart from squishing 2 rooms into 1.
And Clans make themselves known and don't need to be registered really. They all have websites where they can organise events. They have an "Epic sized" world to roam around and meet up in.

Tip.it is technically a clan system based on what you said about belonging to a group. Yet people here believe that there's not enough done for the single player. RS is a single player game. You come into the game on your own, you level on your own, you do almost everything on your own. So please try and justify apart from the reasons of things like SC BA and PC there are clans? They are only created because people want to do it. So let them do it by themselves and let Jagex keep rolling out updates for the single player.

And yes clan chat is more a group chat system. I hardly feel part of "the tip.it clan" or "lady h's army" or whatever, I'm just a guy who goes in to chat every so often.



I'm sure that existing clans with some form of dress code as a form of identity, use external websites to keep a record of their member list, have regular council meetings and such would not mind a more officialised solution to all of these. Sure, they can use a POH, and external websites, and that is proof that the game itself isn't providing sufficient and proper infrastructure for clans. And if Jagex is trying to promote clans and community involvement, the minimum they should do would be making clans more officialised in-game.

You're saying that these features are pointless because you won't be utilising them, but the moment these are added, someone will use it. And did I mention that clan involvement in NOT compulsory? The attitude that some players have in response to in-game clan features seems to assume that more in-game clan features = more compulsory group activity. The article is merely suggesting that the developers provide better support for existing clans in the game. What's wrong with Jagex hosting clan websites where high ranked players can edit, or an individualised (more or less) clan icon for every clan, or a clan base that can showcase the purpose of your clan, be it skilling, combat, or just a random fan club? It's not like clan isn't a popular feature of RuneScape, because it is.
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"Do you really want to go back to the time when Falador was grey, lesser demon look like goats, dragons look like cows, hellhound look like cats and your character stands as stiff as a statue?"

-F1775


#22
Obtaurian
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The "Did You Know..." ( I refuse to call it a DYK, which looks exactly like a another word. That's how I read it whenever any of you say it. inb4immature) is very cool this week. I have full penance and I've never thought of that application for it.

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To put it bluntly, [bleep] off.


#23
The_Fray
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An article about clans? I was not able to finish the article because the subject just did not interest me and the author did very little to get my attention. The DYK was very interesting though I would rather fill my master horn than get full penance. Aside from the DYK this week was fairly disappointing imo.

#24
AirWales
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Some reasonable suggestions in the clan article. Too bad I have a bad clan history <_<

#25
Me_Hate_Libs
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I still think the perceived importance and participation in clans is out of whack with their actual importance and use. I think that people in Clans are an overly vocal minority.

I have an idea, I'll use the same stupid argument always used at me when I criticize or say something should be changed. You want clan support? Go play WoW.
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#26
Ts_Stormrage
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Ts_Stormrage

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+ infinity for clan hall :thumbsup:

A massive "COH" with a lot of features for clans in it. I'm naming;
-Teleports to any group vs group minigames (SC and Clanwars in particular)
-Ancient Obelisk Teleport (teleporting you randomly to any one of those currently present in the Wild)
-A seperate bank where people can donate items to for clan use, as well as the stuff needed to construct more rooms and their features
-Trophy Halls for said minigame achievements against other clans
-and any other cool features that makes it awesome to have a POH too...


As for the current commentairy on how there should be no seperation between the single and multiplayer "modes" in the game;
Some things already require you to be part of a clan to be able to play. Clanwars is an example of this, and I think that Jagex should do a whole lot of belly-button staring for not implementing more of this... So what if you cannot do an activity because you're not part of a clan? I'm beginning to feel quite nauseous at the one-size-fits-all routine... It happened with the Ice Strikewyrm/Firecape issue: Stop your whining and move on to other things, or conform and get a fire cape, and ti goes for clan content too:

Join a clan or expect not to be able to do everything...

If you've had a bad clan experience, then you've just not found the proper clan for you yet... Better still, if you can't find such a clan, MAKE one...
Unfortunately, Tip.it is not the home of clans, but there is our rival fansite out there who is completely dedicated to clans... If people think that clans are just a vocal minority, they're very wrong indeed...

Former Leader of The Tal Shiar Alliance - An Original Tip.it Clan
Member of the Wilderness Guardians and Founder of the Silent Guardians
Founder of The Conclave - A Tip.it Clan institution
Tip.it Times author (click for all my articles) - When I use the wrong reasons to make the right statement, argue the reason, not the statement.
MSSW4 General - Did we kick your ass too?




Check us out!
wildsig3.gif
clanmotif.png
==> No seriously, if you like FREE GP, XP and Dung tokens, as well as Community, Opportunity and above all FUN... <==
CLICK IT!


#27
Golvellius
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Clans already abuse minigames to death. (One side always wins at castle wars or soul wars or stealing creation)
What more do they want?
I can tell you they deserve nothing more, but thats just my opinion and Jagex is all about the group-think. :rolleyes:

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He just successfully trolled you with "courtesy" and managed to get a reaction out of you. Lol


#28
Zepheras
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I still think the perceived importance and participation in clans is out of whack with their actual importance and use. I think that people in Clans are an overly vocal minority.

I have an idea, I'll use the same stupid argument always used at me when I criticize or say something should be changed. You want clan support? Go play WoW.



The actual importance of clans is how they bring in more active players. It's like those Facebook applications where the games aren't exactly the most creative on the planet, yet some people play because their friends do. Except that in the case of MMOs, you can actually plan out proper group events for your clans members. Likewise, people start a clan, invite players in-game, who might try to boost the clan's morale with more clan members, by inviting their friends/cousins/siblings to try the game out. If there's features such as clan halls, you can actually invite new players to your 'base', showcase what your clan does, your achievements (perhaps actual clan trophies from those Jagex cup thingy), instead of "Hey, join us on *insert offsite address*."


Clans already abuse minigames to death. (One side always wins at castle wars or soul wars or stealing creation)
What more do they want?
I can tell you they deserve nothing more, but thats just my opinion and Jagex is all about the group-think. :rolleyes:


If you're on the side of individual players against a group of clan members, you've just seen the power of teamwork. A clan who work this to their advantage deserves to win. They have proper command chain, and better reaction than individual players solo-charging at the avatars or running around castles killing random players instead of guarding their posts.
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"Do you really want to go back to the time when Falador was grey, lesser demon look like goats, dragons look like cows, hellhound look like cats and your character stands as stiff as a statue?"

-F1775


#29
Me_Hate_Libs
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Clearly Ravian is a member of the group think and belief of the group over the individual. Therefore he will not and can not be persuaded of our arguments for individualism.

Also, I still think that Clans bringing "active players" who compete/team with their friends isn't that large of a majority. I think the way they get the attention from Jagex is the same manner where a small group makes a big noise against an enemy making them think there are many more than there actually are. Personally, I wish that Jagex would embrace the individualistic nature that their game has. Better to simply own it than paying lip service to clans.
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#30
Flyingjj
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The "Did You Know..." ( I refuse to call it a DYK, which looks exactly like a another word. That's how I read it whenever any of you say it. inb4immature) is very cool this week. I have full penance and I've never thought of that application for it.

There are a lot of really neat applications for it that are not immediately thought of. For example, thieving master farmers in draynor with Penance and ardy cloak 3 = win, as well as training agility anywhere with full penance(+ full master horn for epic exp).
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#31
Me_Hate_Libs
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Me_Hate_Libs

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Also, I think in Jagex doing such things as this, they will step into a huge pit. By going more after the Clan market they will be entering a market that other, bigger games are in and do much better in the clan department. I think the whole thing will end up much the same way as the Mobilising Armies experiement.

And, if I may, I wouldn't belong to any clan that would have me as a member. :P
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#32
Zepheras
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Clearly Ravian is a member of the group think and belief of the group over the individual. Therefore he will not and can not be persuaded of our arguments for individualism.

Also, I still think that Clans bringing "active players" who compete/team with their friends isn't that large of a majority. I think the way they get the attention from Jagex is the same manner where a small group makes a big noise against an enemy making them think there are many more than there actually are. Personally, I wish that Jagex would embrace the individualistic nature that their game has. Better to simply own it than paying lip service to clans.


Clearly making baseless assumptions is the way to make your argument valid. I've never been part of a clan in RuneScape, but I see the potential from the point of business in increasing membership, as well as from the point of existing clans who would utilise these features.

You think that clans are a small part of the whole RuneScape population, and hence do not deserve these features. I don't think it's up to you to decide whether they deserve or not, since Jagex is putting clans pretty high up on their priority list.

You think that giving clans some in-game features is going to affect individualised gameplay. May I know how the addition of say, a clan base, or features suggested by Ts_Stormage for one of the weekly update of 2010 is going to change that?

Lastly, you've been advocating yourself as a player inclined towards individual gameplay. Great, we know that. Does that mean that every player out there in a clan is going to start becoming like you? No. Using yourself as an example does not change the fact that there are clans out there who can use a in-game clan feature or two.
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"Do you really want to go back to the time when Falador was grey, lesser demon look like goats, dragons look like cows, hellhound look like cats and your character stands as stiff as a statue?"

-F1775


#33
Me_Hate_Libs
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No, I never in anyway way said that clans would affect individualized gameplaying. I have simply stated that I don't like clans personally and don't particularly like having to hear about them. Also, if I had my way, and that's what this argument is all about, having our own ways, I'd rather Jagex not spend time doing them.

Also, my assumption of you was based on everything I have so far read from you. Also, you may notice that I made no mention of you being or not being in a clan. I again simply stated that I believe you believe in the group over the individual. I may be wrong, but I don't think I am.

As far as a high priority, I have my doubts. I think that Jagex pays a bunch of lip service to clans, gives them minor updates, and does what little they have to placate them. This opinion is based entirely of what they have done so far.

And finally, no it's not up me to decide if they should or shouldn't., but it's not up to you either. Both of us are giving on our opinions on the hypothetical updates that have been suggested.

How would those updates change things? No idea. I just don't think they're worth the time.
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#34
Zepheras
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No, I never in anyway way said that clans would affect individualized gameplaying. I have simply stated that I don't like clans personally and don't particularly like having to hear about them. Also, if I had my way, and that's what this argument is all about, having our own ways, I'd rather Jagex not spend time doing them.

Also, my assumption of you was based on everything I have so far read from you. Also, you may notice that I made no mention of you being or not being in a clan. I again simply stated that I believe you believe in the group over the individual. I may be wrong, but I don't think I am.

As far as a high priority, I have my doubts. I think that Jagex pays a bunch of lip service to clans, gives them minor updates, and does what little they have to placate them. This opinion is based entirely of what they have done so far.

And finally, no it's not up me to decide if they should or shouldn't., but it's not up to you either. Both of us are giving on our opinions on the hypothetical updates that have been suggested.

How would those updates change things? No idea. I just don't think they're worth the time.


Wow, having your way indeed. I'm glad you're not a pure skiller, or I won't see combat updates for the rest of my life (if you have your way). Whatever I don't enjoy should not be added to the game even if there are people who do. Or better still, whatever I don't enjoy should not be added to the game since if I don't, they must be so bad that that they don't exist at all! I swear that there are no clans in RuneScape, hence any clan related updates must be useless! <_<
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"Do you really want to go back to the time when Falador was grey, lesser demon look like goats, dragons look like cows, hellhound look like cats and your character stands as stiff as a statue?"

-F1775


#35
Me_Hate_Libs
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Me_Hate_Libs

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Personally, I'd like Clans to go about their business if they want and make due with what they have. I'm fine with ever other kind of update. Runescape is very unique in that it's one of the very few games that truly offers a game that focused on individual play and individual achievement. The more it changes to group activity, the more it turns itself to every other RPG out there. I think that's a bad thing. That's just my opinion and my final thought on the topic.
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#36
Zepheras
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Personally, I'd like Clans to go about their business if they want and make due with what they have. I'm fine with ever other kind of update. Runescape is very unique in that it's one of the very few games that truly offers a game that focused on individual play and individual achievement. The more it changes to group activity, the more it turns itself to every other RPG out there. I think that's a bad thing. That's just my opinion and my final thought on the topic.


Every other player has something that they hate in particular. Quest haters, minigame haters...... If you're fine with every other update but hates clan updates, and another player is fine with every other update except quests, and another, and another, which update should RuneScape go for? And you still don't seem to get the fact that this article isn't talking about changing the gameplay to group activity (like that last Tip.it article), but to provide an in-game infrastructure for clans. The clan could well be a Penguin spotting clan, or a We Love Cabbage clan.

What this changes is, should you (not you, MHL) want to form a clan, you can, in addition to the clan chat, have a clan hall/base which limits access based on membership, a in-game clan logo so that your member can be distinguished from other clans beyond that 50 team capes, and perhaps a clan site hosted by Jagex etc............... instead of having to make do with other non-clan related features in the game, or resorting to registering your clan on another website host. Your clan can become a legit in-game group, you can invite players to visit your in-game clan base instead of some dubious looking link.
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"Do you really want to go back to the time when Falador was grey, lesser demon look like goats, dragons look like cows, hellhound look like cats and your character stands as stiff as a statue?"

-F1775


#37
Jehosaphat
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I don't mind clans - heck, I even join one some of the time. But I do not like being "forced" to interact with others for content. So, if Jagex wants to release more stuff for clans, go ahead. Just don't make it less entertaining for those of us who prefer Soloscape.
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#38
Novaname
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I agree with this article so much it hurts :ohnoes:

But seriously, I'm in an active F2p warring clan and I think personalised team capes would be a fantastic addition to show off and stuff :thumbup:
Proud to have been a Legendary Vindicator
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#39
tortilliachp
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I still think the perceived importance and participation in clans is out of whack with their actual importance and use. I think that people in Clans are an overly vocal minority.

I have an idea, I'll use the same stupid argument always used at me when I criticize or say something should be changed. You want clan support? Go play WoW.


I have another idea: i'll just ignore all the other arguments, that actually may make sense:


How often do you use a clan chat? I think you have a very narrow view of what a clan is, rather than the definition Jagex seems to use. In interacting with people, i think you utilize clan features almost every time you play.

Jagex have claimed, repeatedly the last Q&A sessions that they wish for 50% quest / skilling time in our runescape play, and 50% "other activities", that leaves minigames, D&D and clan activities as something Jagex publicly asserts should take half your ingame runescape time. They also advertise the p2p game to have 25 000 hours of p2p content. I can easily show you 25 000 hours of quests (without guides obviously) and skilling. Show me 12500 hours of minigames and clan activities? Our clan updates are overdue.

If you are tired hearing about 50% of the game you play, haven't you become either selfish, or grown away from the game? I'd say those are pretty clear reasons to consider rpgs that advertise their games more towards your liking. Many allow you to chat with others, but not interact directly other than through trade. They have IRC channels, official forums etc. where you can get your "interaction". G

oing by your incessant complaints about some aspect in almost every topic, you might wanna step back and think about your gaming experience, and your tip.it "interaction" before posting your usual unfounded one-line complaints. You can't neglect runescape in your own terms, because they contradict with what Jagex state they will provide you.

Based on your posts on the tip.it forums the last couple of months, It seems you do wish to play an rpg, but an rpg where you can chat to other people. That is not the MMORPG gameplay Jagex advertises itself as. Your complaints are unreasonable, you know what you've signed up to play, you want something else. If I continually complain about the lack of RWT opportunities within runescape, and whine about it at every opportunity, wouldn't you tell me to find myself a different game to play?

sorry, asserting yourself in a victim's role "told by the community to quit". it's very unbecoming, especially considering what runescape actually describes itself to be.



hmm, i guess what jagex says doesn't matter, when me_hate_libs has an opinion?

#40
Me_Hate_Libs
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Me_Hate_Libs

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No, it doesn't, not when I have a difereing opinion. I have an opinion that differs from theirs. That's why it's called an opinon. It's yours and no one else's, regardless of anything else..
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