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Tip.it Times 4 April 2010


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#41
Zepheras
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No, it doesn't, not when I have a difereing opinion. I have an opinion that differs from theirs. That's why it's called an opinon. It's yours and no one else's, regardless of anything else..



Their opinion is clans should have more in-game support (this does not imply more group actiivities). Your opinion is you hate clans, therefore Jagex should not add in-game clan support features, right?
Posted Image

"Do you really want to go back to the time when Falador was grey, lesser demon look like goats, dragons look like cows, hellhound look like cats and your character stands as stiff as a statue?"

-F1775


#42
Me_Hate_Libs
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My opinions are two fold.

1) I dislike clans. I don't hate them though.

2) By focusing more time on clans they are moving into a realm where bigger games are also better at clan support. I think that's a mistake. I think the game is set up well the way it is.

This opinion is mine and I don't particularly care what anyone else to say about it. Whether it be Ravian or Andrew Gower himself.
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#43
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I was under the impression that the writer is hoping for some one-time investment of the developers' time to design some in-game features. Clan chat is one feature, but more should have been added together with it in the first place. Whereas you seem to talk about how this may evolve into more group activity,

The more it changes to group activity, the more it turns itself to every other RPG out there.


or how this equates to Jagex

going more after the Clan market


Are you that paranoid, or frustrated when clan chat was added? :unsure:
Posted Image

"Do you really want to go back to the time when Falador was grey, lesser demon look like goats, dragons look like cows, hellhound look like cats and your character stands as stiff as a statue?"

-F1775


#44
tortilliachp
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My opinions are two fold.

1) I dislike clans. I don't hate them though.

2) By focusing more time on clans they are moving into a realm where bigger games are also better at clan support. I think that's a mistake. I think the game is set up well the way it is.

This opinion is mine and I don't particularly care what anyone else to say about it. Whether it be Ravian or Andrew Gower himself.


so you are say, if i wanted RWT back in runescape, i should complain every update they don't reinstitute opportunites for rwt?

I think I would then need to confront myself with reality. do you?

#45
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My opinions are two fold.

1) I dislike clans. I don't hate them though.

2) By focusing more time on clans they are moving into a realm where bigger games are also better at clan support. I think that's a mistake. I think the game is set up well the way it is.

This opinion is mine and I don't particularly care what anyone else to say about it. Whether it be Ravian or Andrew Gower himself.


so you are say, if i wanted RWT back in runescape, i should complain every update they don't reinstitute opportunites for rwt?

I think I would then need to confront myself with reality. do you?


I'm very well aware of reality and not at all paranoid. I simply don't support spending time on updates for clans. Why do you have such an issue with that?
This website and its contents are copyright © 1999 - 2010 Jagex Ltd.

#46
Zepheras
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My opinions are two fold.

1) I dislike clans. I don't hate them though.

2) By focusing more time on clans they are moving into a realm where bigger games are also better at clan support. I think that's a mistake. I think the game is set up well the way it is.

This opinion is mine and I don't particularly care what anyone else to say about it. Whether it be Ravian or Andrew Gower himself.


so you are say, if i wanted RWT back in runescape, i should complain every update they don't reinstitute opportunites for rwt?

I think I would then need to confront myself with reality. do you?


I'm very well aware of reality and not at all paranoid. I simply don't support spending time on updates for clans. Why do you have such an issue with that?


Well, because I'm an individualised player, but nevertheless supports the spending of time and addition of clan features as long as it would be enjoyed by other players who need them. You are however, an individualised player who feels the need to reject such ideas altogether either by assuming that clans are a minority so small that they are not worth receiving updates, or assuming that this is going to evolve into the catastrophe of more group activities, or assuming that Jagex is going to fail at such a project compared to other MMOs, or assuming that even if they suceed, the time spent should have been used for other updates (almost as good as saying that clan chat could have ended up being a quest update or something).

I understand how some players not utilising in-game clan features would not benefit from it, but I honestly don't see the need to REJECT this idea. I personally doubt that the development time saved would bring in other updates into the game at an amazing faster speed, or be exchangeable for a WGS2, or solve the issue of manipulation clan etc etc.... :blink:
Posted Image

"Do you really want to go back to the time when Falador was grey, lesser demon look like goats, dragons look like cows, hellhound look like cats and your character stands as stiff as a statue?"

-F1775


#47
Me_Hate_Libs
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You seem to think I care one way or another in some major way. I don't. I have a preference. That's all.
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#48
tortilliachp
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My opinions are two fold.

1) I dislike clans. I don't hate them though.

2) By focusing more time on clans they are moving into a realm where bigger games are also better at clan support. I think that's a mistake. I think the game is set up well the way it is.

This opinion is mine and I don't particularly care what anyone else to say about it. Whether it be Ravian or Andrew Gower himself.

...

I'm very well aware of reality and not at all paranoid. I simply don't support spending time on updates for clans. Why do you have such an issue with that?

Paranoia is if someone is "out to get you" how does that have anything to do with anything on this topic?

because jagex have said that 50% of the game is supposed to be composed of multiplayer activities. because jagex have said they're striving towards that goal. Because jagex have said that they are focusing more on clan activities (after the last clan tournament). because nothing has happened since then, and therefore clan changes and increased support should be around the corner. becasue it's like their stance on RTW: something they have asserted as fact. because you seem to disregard all those things when you campaign against clan updates.

It's completely irrational, it's as if i were to campaign against color changes for the dark bow, when it was voted as guaranteed content: it makes no sense.

#49
Me_Hate_Libs
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My opinions are two fold.

1) I dislike clans. I don't hate them though.

2) By focusing more time on clans they are moving into a realm where bigger games are also better at clan support. I think that's a mistake. I think the game is set up well the way it is.

This opinion is mine and I don't particularly care what anyone else to say about it. Whether it be Ravian or Andrew Gower himself.

...

I'm very well aware of reality and not at all paranoid. I simply don't support spending time on updates for clans. Why do you have such an issue with that?

Paranoia is if someone is "out to get you" how does that have anything to do with anything on this topic?

because jagex have said that 50% of the game is supposed to be composed of multiplayer activities. because jagex have said they're striving towards that goal. Because jagex have said that they are focusing more on clan activities (after the last clan tournament). because nothing has happened since then, and therefore clan changes and increased support should be around the corner. becasue it's like their stance on RTW: something they have asserted as fact. because you seem to disregard all those things when you campaign against clan updates.

It's completely irrational, it's as if i were to campaign against color changes for the dark bow, when it was voted as guaranteed content: it makes no sense.


Rav implied I was paranoid, that's why I said something.

I personally never saw the 50% thing, but I personally won't spend 50% of my time on group activities. I don't agree with that goal, but again, it's just an opinion. It's not something I'll quit the game over. I am personally against it, again why is that an issue? Because it goes against what Jagex has said their goal is? Sorry, but I don't have to believe or hold the opinion of the game developers to enjoy their game in the same way I don't have to agree with Ben & Jerry's politics to like their ice cream.
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#50
tortilliachp
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My opinions are two fold.

1) I dislike clans. I don't hate them though.

2) By focusing more time on clans they are moving into a realm where bigger games are also better at clan support. I think that's a mistake. I think the game is set up well the way it is.

This opinion is mine and I don't particularly care what anyone else to say about it. Whether it be Ravian or Andrew Gower himself.


I personally never saw the 50% thing, but I personally won't spend 50% of my time on group activities. I don't agree with that goal, but again, it's just an opinion. It's not something I'll quit the game over. I am personally against it, again why is that an issue? Because it goes against what Jagex has said their goal is? Sorry, but I don't have to believe or hold the opinion of the game developers to enjoy their game in the same way I don't have to agree with Ben & Jerry's politics to like their ice cream.


they've said it's as firm as RWT though. You eat Ben and Jerry's for their ice cream, just as you judge runescape on their game content, and future game content. That's the game Andrew has been out to make for a decade, you disagree: well, you know what they're gonna give you. They've told you, you don't have a say, i don't have a say. complaining about something you know you can't change is as stupid as trying to date someone who's happily married, you know what you're in for. I get annoyed by someone constantly complaining about that, so i'd take a step back and look at myself to see if i was doing something similar.

That's why clans are something worth talking about: because Jagex are actually trying to make this type of content: it's not trying to change existing content (bosses, a minigame or whatever) this is something Jagex is actually working on, and will continue working with. Why not post something constructive, like how clans could become more relevant to your type of player, rather than condemning the whole situation? It's like not voting for the best party, because all parties are bad. lesser of two evils: it's the only thing that makes sense.

So how should clans be dealt with, as they will remain a major part of the game? it's an issue because your irrational behavior isn't constructive, and obviously your opinion is different to "the tip.it community", so getting that new perspective is more important to all of us, than reasserting ourselves with our "opinion-buddies". That's what a community is all about: constructively contributing just like everyone else. you obviously have a new perspective beneficial to us all, so share it, rather than complaining about something set in stone.

#51
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If the case is they bring the game around to more group based activity than solo play, I very well could leave. And I'd love it if you could link me where they said that 50% thing. I want to read it myself.

Back to my main point, I'm tired of hearing about them. Give them updates if they want so abdly, but just shut up about it. It's not bad enough that half the Dev blogs are abotu clans, but we need to have a bunch of Times articles about them too?
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#52
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Props to Me_Hate_Libs for putting up with the constant flaming. Surprised my massive post didn't draw any fire, perhaps I wasn't an easy enough target...

#53
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Props to Me_Hate_Libs for putting up with the constant flaming. Surprised my massive post didn't draw any fire, perhaps I wasn't an easy enough target...


Most of the flack comes because I actually have an opinion and don'y shy away from people criticizing it. Most of them either insult me or circumvent my points. In instances like this, I'mn ot trying to convince people like Tortilla or Rav, but the other people who are reading it.
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#54
gioandjack
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I agree so much.
Clans are a very big part of the runescape community.
If jagex's goal is evolve the community more clans should be a big part of it.
Clans have had next to no updates since the game began.
Yes there was the clan chat, but i see that as more of group chat found in many other MMORPG's .
A clan hall? Custom clan crests? Clan leader and achievement Bord?
I could see all of these making many players happier and strengthening the community.
As for the people who are against clan updates, don't use it and it wont hurt you.

HoleInFate

And BTW great article Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image

Posted Image

Sig courtesy of sxssniffe(so i can remember to go to make a new one :-) )
Posted Image

If Jagex ever made a perfect update there would be players complaining about nothing to complain about.

Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first place.
Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you are, by definition, not smart enough to debug it.
Brian W. Kernighan

#55
Zepheras
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Props to Me_Hate_Libs for putting up with the constant flaming. Surprised my massive post didn't draw any fire, perhaps I wasn't an easy enough target...


Most of the flack comes because I actually have an opinion and don'y shy away from people criticizing it. Most of them either insult me or circumvent my points. In instances like this, I'mn ot trying to convince people like Tortilla or Rav, but the other people who are reading it.



Actually, I'm replying to MHL's post and not waheera1's because I'm looking for the reason for MHL's objection. Well, it turns out to be just her 'opinion' and it comes with quite a few assumptions. Waheera1 on the other hand, is replying to the wrong article. Your post would have been more relevant to "Specialization in the Past, Specialization for the Future" by tortillachp on march 21st, which specifically promotes group activities in the game, such as un-soloable boss, multiplayer quest.....

Two different articles on two different topics getting the same kind of response? You should re-read the articles, even if you're just posting your opinion.

Objection to the March 21st article can stem from your reluctance to participate in group activity. That is your opinion and I respect that.
Objection to this article can only stem from narrow-mindness and selfishness. You're in short, saying that in-game features like clan chat, Faruq's game shop and suggested feature such as DKP, clan hall, clan label should not be added in the first place, even though they are definitely not detrimental to the game, and does not affect your gameplay since they are not actual game content but rather, infrastructure supporting another group of players.

So, what are you trying to convince people about, MHL?
Posted Image

"Do you really want to go back to the time when Falador was grey, lesser demon look like goats, dragons look like cows, hellhound look like cats and your character stands as stiff as a statue?"

-F1775


#56
Me_Hate_Libs
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Mostly I'm trying to convince people that I'm not some raving looney as you're trying to make me appear to me.

Selfishness? You're damn right. I'm an objectivist so I believe in true and rational selfishness. I'm interested in getting the most out of the game as I can. The people who want these clan updates are just as selfish as they want updates to maximise their playing experience.

Another point I want made is that moving more towards a bigger amount of group/clan activites is a mistake. That turns Runescape into what most other MMOs are and I think that other MMOs do it better. I think that *that* would be detrimental to Runescape in the long run.

Obviously you disagree so feel free to not reply to my post.
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#57
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I think what MHL is trying to say that RS's clan function is worse than other traditonal MMORPGs, instead of focusing on its weakness, it should focus on its strength, whatever that maybe.

However, I am here to say that RS's clan world is probably one of the most essential element for many players and even if it is behind other MMORPGs(Which is her opinion, one which I disagree with), it should be focused more on than it is now. I believe the clan function has great potential which is yet undeveloped, hundreds and perhaps thousands of players go out each day in the wilderness, many more group together to boss hunt/chat/skill/etc etc. The fact is RS is a MMORPG, while it should have solo contents, the game should have more group orientated functions as MMOs are suppose to be enjoyed by a group of people. Why else would you play an online game without interaction?
Posted Image[
Guild Wars 2-In game screenshot, the MMORPG you are waiting for. Click for thread.

#58
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I think what MHL is trying to say that RS's clan function is worse than other traditonal MMORPGs, instead of focusing on its weakness, it should focus on its strength, whatever that maybe.

However, I am here to say that RS's clan world is probably one of the most essential element for many players and even if it is behind other MMORPGs(Which is her opinion, one which I disagree with), it should be focused more on than it is now. I believe the clan function has great potential which is yet undeveloped, hundreds and perhaps thousands of players go out each day in the wilderness, many more group together to boss hunt/chat/skill/etc etc. The fact is RS is a MMORPG, while it should have solo contents, the game should have more group orientated functions as MMOs are suppose to be enjoyed by a group of people. Why else would you play an online game without interaction?


You can have interaction with people without necessarily engaging in group oritented activity.
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#59
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I think what MHL is trying to say that RS's clan function is worse than other traditonal MMORPGs, instead of focusing on its weakness, it should focus on its strength, whatever that maybe.

However, I am here to say that RS's clan world is probably one of the most essential element for many players and even if it is behind other MMORPGs(Which is her opinion, one which I disagree with), it should be focused more on than it is now. I believe the clan function has great potential which is yet undeveloped, hundreds and perhaps thousands of players go out each day in the wilderness, many more group together to boss hunt/chat/skill/etc etc. The fact is RS is a MMORPG, while it should have solo contents, the game should have more group orientated functions as MMOs are suppose to be enjoyed by a group of people. Why else would you play an online game without interaction?


You can have interaction with people without necessarily engaging in group oritented activity.


Of course, but group activities inspire more interaction. Look here is the thing, you obviously dislike group related things, which is fine, I respect your opinion and such so lets not argue over it alright?
Posted Image[
Guild Wars 2-In game screenshot, the MMORPG you are waiting for. Click for thread.

#60
Zepheras
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I've never considered the strength of RuneScape as one that appeals greatly to individualised players. It's true strength should be its appeal to multiple kinds of players, be it skillers who enjoy peaceful training, combat-oriented ones who are almost always camping at a boss area, PKers and their bloodthirsty lust, questers, minigamers, or pretty much any niche you can name. The fact that RuneScape rotates its update for different groups of players may not appeal to every single player for each update, but always result in everyone having something to do in the game.

Clans deserve some form of update to help their in-game establishment as much as any other player who wants a new quest or a new boss monster, and what could be a better time than now? You have a few years worth of game content already added to entertain the majority of the players, and clans have proven themselves to be an undying breed in RuneScape. When Jagex held the inter-clan competition, I thought it was a pretty good attempt, but silly at the same to declare a clan the winner without some form of achievement to show in-game. Suggestions by the article would solve the problem, such as a clan hall to display in-game trophies, and more customisable clan ranking system.
Posted Image

"Do you really want to go back to the time when Falador was grey, lesser demon look like goats, dragons look like cows, hellhound look like cats and your character stands as stiff as a statue?"

-F1775





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