12-Apr-2010 - Dungeoneering Skill!

[Peronix]

Well getting a primal maul certainly made me feel better at it :razz:

 

Though you really should get more items to bind... a good model I think would be 1 item at level 1, 2 at level 30, 3 at level 60, 4 at level 90, and 5 at level 120. That would seem a bit more fair to me.

[SixFootOne]

Any one know what goes into getting a good drop from a boss or have i been unlucky =p? Lvl 36 dungeon highest prestige and i play on complexity 6non some of the highest floors i can. I rarely get anything even up to katagon. By the way i am just about maxed stats so i can use almost everything

[Peronix]

By the way, anyone care to speculate what the ancient artifact at the very bottom (not released yet) is? They make it sound like it's the SoJ or something, but obviously it can't be that because it was in the ancient Guthixian temple and Lucien stole it. What object of great power did the Dragonkin posses that they would go to such great lengths to hide?

[AlexRose]

Does summoning not serve only to aid other skills?

At level 50 Summoning, I had achieved abilities in a SKILL that helped me doing nearly everything in RS.

 

What have I achieved at level 50 of this mess? Some guy says I have tokens. Hardly comparable.

 

The emperor has no clothes. This is not a skill, it's a minigame, and a poorly designed and tested one at that.

 

I have asked this question to many a complainer on the official forums; what do you actually consider a "skill"?

 

 

Oh and I wouldn't call the equipment you get from this skill "useless" either. Far too expensive now, perhaps, but Jagex said they are currently re-balancing the costs.

That equipment will have little impact on the game. Based on that criterion, Barrows is more of a skill than this POS. At least after spending 20 hours at the Barrows, I have something to show for it.

 

But this ultimately reflects on how Jagex initially balanced their items, which is more difficult than most people realize, rather than the core components of the skill itself. Summoning was quite impractical, and nearly useless, before Jagex released the second part of the update. I'm honestly not sure how Jagex screwed up this much on the balancing (perhaps they had the token gains of level 70s in mind?), but my point remains.

 

 

And maybe if Jagex actually had a clue how people play their game, they might be able to release a major piece of content that doesn't have to be redesigned.

 

So how do people play this game?

[qeltar]

I have asked this question to many a complainer on the official forums; what do you actually consider a "skill"?

I think the name itself is a pretty good clue: skill is a synonym of ability. A skill should be something you train to gain abilities or resources that are part of the game. This doesn't qualify.

 

So how do people play this game?

First, they try to break it. All software engineers understand this, except apparently the ones at Jagex. They are always "surprised" when gamers use their content in ways they didn't expect, even though experienced players never are surprised at what comes out. That's pretty indicative.

 

Second, they want a reasonable balance of effort and reward, and Jagex doesn't seem to get this at all. So we end up with losable items that require 4,000,000 XP to get, the specials on certain Barrows sets that have been obsolete for years and never get fixed, and of course, penance tridents.

[pulli23]

I really wonder: is there any advantage over being 80 dungeoneering vs 70? - or 98 vs 70?

 

Really this skill is useless to level at high levels?

[jonni]

Only real flaw I've gotten across (other than that the dungeons being quite repetitive), is the fact you can't join back your "own party" if you disconnect when soloing the dungeons. I mean I've few times already got my browser to crash down right at the end of dungeon. It's quite annoying feeling when you used 20 minutes to clear the dungeon and end up without getting any XP out of it.

 

For player like me who likes to solo on things like this, this is a big problem. I don't see reason why you couldn't just get back to where you were before disconnecting...?

 

I guess I just have to team up every time I play, to avoid things like this. :-?

 

apparently it's game engine related, they can't have lots of solo dungeons saved on the server in the offchance that people will return to them, because that will start to knock-out the server. but they're working on it, which is good

[Danqazmlp]

By the way, anyone care to speculate what the ancient artifact at the very bottom (not released yet) is? They make it sound like it's the SoJ or something, but obviously it can't be that because it was in the ancient Guthixian temple and Lucien stole it. What object of great power did the Dragonkin posses that they would go to such great lengths to hide?

 

 

I wonder if it could be Dragonkin themselves?

 

Maybe even the solid body form of Zamorak? As he isn't allowed to have any effect on the world, he may have hidden himself away?

 

 

Dragon Dragons

 

 

Portal to the maharajat home plane of existence (hence all the portals talked about in the notes)

 

 

There really is nothing to go on at the moment except that whatever it is is powerful enough to create rifts between dimensions in which monsters have been able to travel through.

[1230abcz]

I have asked this question to many a complainer on the official forums; what do you actually consider a "skill"?

I think the name itself is a pretty good clue: skill is a synonym of ability. A skill should be something you train to gain abilities or resources that are part of the game. This doesn't qualify.

 

Jagex did say that they're coming out with dungeon outside of Daemonheim that require dungeoneering, and even then, who cares if it's not your average skill? Just because it tests your arbitrary rules as to what a skill should be doesn't devoid it from being a skill. And even then, who cares? It's a fun piece of content that literally everyone I've talked to has enjoyed. It's slow, yes, but never redundant like every other skill in this game. I don't feel like I need to take a break and do something else after an hour of training, as I normally do with every single skill I've trained thus far.

 

 

Second, they want a reasonable balance of effort and reward, and Jagex doesn't seem to get this at all. So we end up with losable items that require 4,000,000 XP to get, the specials on certain Barrows sets that have been obsolete for years and never get fixed, and of course, penance tridents.

 

I'm still going to hold judgement on whether or not these rewards are unbalanced or not. Just as I said before, haters gonna hate, and just because the skill seems unbalanced as of right now, it doesn't mean it will be after the next batch is released. You also don't know the EXP gains at higher levels. As far as we know, the time it's taking to complete one level in the sub 70's is the same amount of time it takes to complete a level past the 80's, in which case the slowness of the skill "pays off," to an extent, once we hit higher levels. This obviously means that tokens roll in faster as well, making the token limit on the high level weapons not so unbalanced.

 

As for why the level needed to wield the weapon and the actual level needed to buy it are so different is probably because Jagex intends to release more weapons/armor in the future. If you think about it, there's two really good reasons for this. First being that the skill goes to level 120, and we only have rewards to 80. Obviously, we're going to get rewards up past the 100's, so there has to be "room" in the hierarchy of levels to make new rewards -- I don't really want a [cabbage] load of rewards all packed in the 90's just because of the rate we get tokens in the game. The other reason is that, even though the level needed to buy the level 80 weapons is like 87, I still think it's way too low for such great weapons. All of those weapons cost 200k/hour to use, making them well worth their cost. There's no way I'd see those kinds of weapons being balanced in a level under 90 in any other skill.

[Robert_R]

I really wonder: is there any advantage over being 80 dungeoneering vs 70? - or 98 vs 70?

 

Really this skill is useless to level at high levels?

I'm just hoping that is resolved in the second batch of this skill. Either way I like the skill because it's something different, it really doesn't bother me if it doesn't affect outside of the skill itself atm.

[AlexRose]

I have asked this question to many a complainer on the official forums; what do you actually consider a "skill"?

I think the name itself is a pretty good clue: skill is a synonym of ability. A skill should be something you train to gain abilities or resources that are part of the game. This doesn't qualify.

 

So if reasonable rewards were offered, that gave considerable bonuses (which could encompass either resourses or abilities), would you consider Dungeoneering a skill?

[burquedout]

I just don't understand why the rewards are so out of sync price from the required levels. It's impossible to have enough tokens to buy a reward at the level it says you can use it at. What is the point? Why not make the level requirement at a point where you could theoretically purchase the item.

[anonymouse_]

Any one know what goes into getting a good drop from a boss or have i been unlucky =p? Lvl 36 dungeon highest prestige and i play on complexity 6non some of the highest floors i can. I rarely get anything even up to katagon. By the way i am just about maxed stats so i can use almost everything

Seems like luck; so far I've had 4 primal mauls and 1 rapier.

[NukeMarine]

Qeltar,

 

How Runescape does a "skill" is not like the skill is in the real world, so you can't use the same concept. In the real world, there's no training to wear a piece of metal. Catching 2 million gold fish won't make you magically able to catch a shark. An oak and pine tree can both be cut down with the same axe and same skills (one just takes longer), etc. Runescape "skill" is repetition based reward system. Do something easy long enough to do better things. Do less better things or more easier things to get even better things. As you can imagine, dungeoneering fits the bill of how Runescape uses skills. Other things in RS could also be molded into a skill system, but likely will not.

 

That said, dungeoneering does need to be implemented into more of the world. And there needs to be better results for higher dungeoneering (better binding being the obvious one).

[SixFootOne]

Any one know what goes into getting a good drop from a boss or have i been unlucky =p? Lvl 36 dungeon highest prestige and i play on complexity 6non some of the highest floors i can. I rarely get anything even up to katagon. By the way i am just about maxed stats so i can use almost everything

Seems like luck; so far I've had 4 primal mauls and 1 rapier.

 

 

Alright thanks, i guess i will just keep on going through these dungeons.

[Grimy_Bunyip]

By the way, anyone care to speculate what the ancient artifact at the very bottom (not released yet) is? They make it sound like it's the SoJ or something, but obviously it can't be that because it was in the ancient Guthixian temple and Lucien stole it. What object of great power did the Dragonkin posses that they would go to such great lengths to hide?

 

 

I wonder if it could be Dragonkin themselves?

 

Maybe even the solid body form of Zamorak? As he isn't allowed to have any effect on the world, he may have hidden himself away?

 

 

Dragon Dragons

 

 

Portal to the maharajat home plane of existence (hence all the portals talked about in the notes)

 

 

There really is nothing to go on at the moment except that whatever it is is powerful enough to create rifts between dimensions in which monsters have been able to travel through.

 

I'm 100% positive it's the dragon kin themselves

 

the ring of KINship

The ring of kinship is highly resistant to fire, similar to the dragonkin ring.

Perhaps someone should try using it on a mithril dragon =D?

Bilrach describes the daemonheim statues as looking like the dragonkin

There are dragons in the dungeon

Bilrach seems to have an obsession with the dragonkin

Bilrach describes the kin as "guardians of the artefact" and the "enders of the great war"

[Danqazmlp]

By the way, anyone care to speculate what the ancient artifact at the very bottom (not released yet) is? They make it sound like it's the SoJ or something, but obviously it can't be that because it was in the ancient Guthixian temple and Lucien stole it. What object of great power did the Dragonkin posses that they would go to such great lengths to hide?

 

 

I wonder if it could be Dragonkin themselves?

 

Maybe even the solid body form of Zamorak? As he isn't allowed to have any effect on the world, he may have hidden himself away?

 

 

Dragon Dragons

 

 

Portal to the maharajat home plane of existence (hence all the portals talked about in the notes)

 

 

There really is nothing to go on at the moment except that whatever it is is powerful enough to create rifts between dimensions in which monsters have been able to travel through.

 

I'm 100% positive it's the dragon kin themselves

 

the ring of KINship

The ring of kinship is highly resistant to fire, similar to the dragonkin ring.

Perhaps someone should try using it on a mithril dragon =D?

Bilrach describes the daemonheim statues as looking like the dragonkin

There are dragons in the dungeon

Bilrach seems to have an obsession with the dragonkin

Bilrach describes the kin as "guardians of the artefact" and the "enders of the great war"

 

 

That has just hit me. The 'enders of the great war. I remember reading it and not thinking much of it at the time. Could there be a chance of it referring to the Godwars? If so, would not the guthix awaking and ending the war be a giant conspiracy.

[magzar]

By the way, anyone care to speculate what the ancient artifact at the very bottom (not released yet) is? They make it sound like it's the SoJ or something, but obviously it can't be that because it was in the ancient Guthixian temple and Lucien stole it. What object of great power did the Dragonkin posses that they would go to such great lengths to hide?

 

 

I wonder if it could be Dragonkin themselves?

 

Maybe even the solid body form of Zamorak? As he isn't allowed to have any effect on the world, he may have hidden himself away?

 

 

Dragon Dragons

 

 

Portal to the maharajat home plane of existence (hence all the portals talked about in the notes)

 

 

There really is nothing to go on at the moment except that whatever it is is powerful enough to create rifts between dimensions in which monsters have been able to travel through.

 

I'm 100% positive it's the dragon kin themselves

 

the ring of KINship

The ring of kinship is highly resistant to fire, similar to the dragonkin ring.

Perhaps someone should try using it on a mithril dragon =D?

Bilrach describes the daemonheim statues as looking like the dragonkin

There are dragons in the dungeon

Bilrach seems to have an obsession with the dragonkin

Bilrach describes the kin as "guardians of the artefact" and the "enders of the great war"

 

 

That has just hit me. The 'enders of the great war. I remember reading it and not thinking much of it at the time. Could there be a chance of it referring to the Godwars? If so, would not the guthix awaking and ending the war be a giant conspiracy.

 

Not if The way Guthix ended the war was by summoning the Dragonkin.

[Myu]

I have asked this question to many a complainer on the official forums; what do you actually consider a "skill"?

I think the name itself is a pretty good clue: skill is a synonym of ability. A skill should be something you train to gain abilities or resources that are part of the game. This doesn't qualify.

 

So if reasonable rewards were offered, that gave considerable bonuses (which could encompass either resourses or abilities), would you consider Dungeoneering a skill?

An ability he says. Well its pretty obvious that you could get better at spellunking, so it's a bad argument. I think the point is that dungeoneering has almost no impact on your gaming experience outside dungeoneering. So far, only a few have even come to the point where they could actually get something for their tokens., but most are probably saving up to something much better. At the moment, there is no advantage outside daemonheim in having lvl 30 dungeoneering aside from 30 total levels and another ranked skill. Rewards should come successively as you progress in the skill. Right now, you need 70+ dungeoneering to get a bonecrusher, and even that reward is pretty lame. Comparing it with construction where one of the first good rewards come around level 55 when you can mount a glory in the house. It would be a good comparison if it wasnt for the fact that construction has a lot more, less exciting rewards earlier on, such as making tea, fixing armour, getting supplies, refilling prayer and summoning, and so on. Dungeoneering has nothing but items that are only available after a set amount of experience. This also means that if you would buy a bonecrusher, it would take a longer time to get a chaos weapon or a shield. Experience is then a currency. What else have currencies? Minigames do. Pieces of eight, tokkul, points, etc.

 

Right now dungeoneering as a skill is useless. The good thing about this that it can get better, it can be fixed. Let's hope jagex makes dungeoneering worthwhile even at lower lvls like -50. There's lots of potential here. They could add many dungeons with different approaches. One for combat, one for skilling, one for puzzles, one for clans, one for survival of the fittest, etc. So far, with one dungeon and and just a fraction of the rewards, it looks good in gameplay, but bad in design.

[jsboutin2]

I've seen really difficult bosses, lately. This frozen ZGW guy, whose spec I was not able to evade, and a bulwark beast, which had an armor that we needed to get through before being able to hit it.

 

Is there something I was doing wrong with them or are they just harder? (Especially the one with the shield, I died maybe 4 times to it due to scarce food)

[Toad]

Just got a primal kite :)

[Squisher_33]

ive heard of a 5man team run into a lvl 525 boss

 

whats highest uve seen? pics are awsome rememebr ive seen a lvl 320 in trio thats it

[Shadiochao]

 

By the way, anyone care to speculate what the ancient artifact at the very bottom (not released yet) is? They make it sound like it's the SoJ or something, but obviously it can't be that because it was in the ancient Guthixian temple and Lucien stole it. What object of great power did the Dragonkin posses that they would go to such great lengths to hide?

 

 

I wonder if it could be Dragonkin themselves?

 

Maybe even the solid body form of Zamorak? As he isn't allowed to have any effect on the world, he may have hidden himself away?

 

 

Dragon Dragons

 

 

Portal to the maharajat home plane of existence (hence all the portals talked about in the notes)

 

 

There really is nothing to go on at the moment except that whatever it is is powerful enough to create rifts between dimensions in which monsters have been able to travel through.

 

I'm 100% positive it's the dragon kin themselves

 

the ring of KINship

The ring of kinship is highly resistant to fire, similar to the dragonkin ring.

Perhaps someone should try using it on a mithril dragon =D?

Bilrach describes the daemonheim statues as looking like the dragonkin

There are dragons in the dungeon

Bilrach seems to have an obsession with the dragonkin

Bilrach describes the kin as "guardians of the artefact" and the "enders of the great war"

 

 

That has just hit me. The 'enders of the great war. I remember reading it and not thinking much of it at the time. Could there be a chance of it referring to the Godwars? If so, would not the guthix awaking and ending the war be a giant conspiracy.

 

Not if The way Guthix ended the war was by summoning the Dragonkin.

 

 

The Dragonkin aren't Guthix's followers, they're supposed to be Jas' slaves, and he was gone before Guthix arrived.

The artefect they guarded there could've been the Stone of Jas, at some point.

[Maxingmck]

I remember when spelled was taught in the US.

 

But in all reality I saw a 333 Gluttonous Beast in a duo so (333/2)*5=833

[Grimy_Bunyip]

Not if The way Guthix ended the war was by summoning the Dragonkin.

last time i checked, guthix and the dragonkin were enemies