Your opinions?

[Abc1230]

I doubt they are forcing religion onto them, well not FORCING. Thats kinda a brute word to use, they are only kids.

I have a dirty mind ._.

 

I don't really care about religion... I just don't think that... uh... children (myself included) should have to do something that doesn't really help them academically in school or whatever :/ Tradition is stupid :unsure:

[deloriagod]

Why does the chant have to mention God? I'm sure they could come up with 100 other cutesy little chants that the kids would love and never once mention God. The thing is, if it's not a state-run daycare, then it's fine as long as the parents know it's happening. I personally wouldn't want my kids being told that God is great and all that. When I have kids I'll make them aware of the ideals and teachings of many religions, but I'll let them pick their religion as they get older. My girlfriend wanted to go to this free concert at her school the other night and I went with her (free pizza, I was hungry). I had a it was going to be some Christian bs so I kind of picked up little hints of Christianity through their songs. Then they had a little intermission where they wanted to talk about God. They spent a good 30 minutes talking about it. Then the lead guy decided to lead everyone in a prayer. I refused to bow my head for it and after they finished up and went back to singing I walked out. It's good and all that they're willing to support their religion but it would have been nice to know they were going to waste my time pushing religion on me. I have my ideals and they don't change just because some guy says his god is going to send me to hell for not believing.

[Skeptical]

It's wrong, but I doubt that it's illegal.

[champion]

Yeah if the parents don't like it they can just send their kid somewhere else. But it's harmless. Hell, at that age, the kids probably don't even understand what they're saying.

[mcneilp]

Yeah if the parents don't like it they can just send their kid somewhere else. But it's harmless. Hell, at that age, the kids probably don't even understand what they're saying.

I'd agree with this.

At primary school we had a school assembly every Friday where all the kids would sing hymns and religious songs for kids and stuff like that. It wasn't a catholic school or anything like that, if your parents didn't want you to take part you could sit it out, no big deal. Although the songs were religious i think they were more about morals than anything else, teaching kids to share and be nice to each other, that sort of thing.

[Donkeykong23]

It's not a big deal at all.

 

The odds are that the kids have no clue as to what they are even "chanting," and it will mean nothing to them anyways.

 

Also it's not like they even know who God is or what religion is...

[Bladewing]

They shouldn't do it without the parents being informed. Some people will make a huge fit if their kids even hear the word god.

[Giordano]

They shouldn't do it without the parents being informed. Some people will make a huge fit if their kids even hear the word god.

If the daycare stopped that means the big fit drama queen gets her victory. Chant on I say!

[fakeitormakeit2]

Oh my ܩܕܝܫܛ ܐܠܚܐ (I said the "you know what" in my crazy foreign speak so that no one would be offended by "Its" name being imposed and shoved down their throat).

 

You can probably tell my opinion by reading my first line. I find it incredibly foolish when people make such a big deal over hearing or their children hearing the word 'god'. America says it's a separate of Church and state but it is really an eradication of religion all together from the public place. Kids I know have gotten in trouble for praying in public schools, I mean really, that is not religious freedom. I do not care if someone is an atheist, they have all right to be, as long as they're a good person they're a good person regardless of credence or lack of adherence to one. The removal of anything religious from the public view is disguising though because it is the erasing of religion for those who will it. That is why I would instate a mandatory world's religion class that teaches students for at least have a year about all religions briefly, enabling them to make a fare choice to either be christian, muslim, jewish, buddhist, sikh, taoist, atheist, etc. and it would also double as a sociology class.

 

A structured religion helps convey a moral system easier then the derivation of independent morals from one's own "thought" island (but ultimately they should reach the same conclusion, hence why my Church doesn't believe atheists or anyone else burn in hell and have just as good a chance as I going to heaven). This singing the chant is portraying a message of thankfulness and teaching the virtue of being grateful, these children cannot comprehend such a complex being as God.

 

I find this relates to the Good Samaritan, sadly versions of the Bible in English are so diluted you do not get the message so I will say it from the Aramaic understanding and cultural context. So there's a man who gets beaten by robbers and left to die. Two important and holy men of the society are on their way to temple separately in two instance and see this body. They do not want to touch the body because this would make them ritually impure and therefore unable to worship properly if he were dead so they continue on so that they may go pray because what their religion states for being eligible to worship God is far more important then helping a beaten man. However, the Samaritan, who were perceived as inferior pseudo-Jews by the Jews, the underdog of the story if you will, stops and helps the beaten man by bandaging his wounds and then paying for his rent at an inn. The point of the parable is Jesus is stating the loving help to another far surpasses religious legalism therefore the fear of hearing the word 'God' is highly irrational because the objective of psalms and childish religious chants are to instill moral values and not brainwash them to give the Catholic Church money and make them zombies.

 

 

 

Edit: To the guy who refused to display reverence during the prayer at the concert you went to, I suggest you reevaluate how you treat other belief systems other then your own (and if you listen to group prayers a lot of the time they're for nonsectarian causes, today my youth group prayed for people devastated by poverty and natural disasters) . I have gone to synagogue and worn a yamulka not because I have any particular belief in what the Jews do but I was a guest of their community and I was honored to be invited so I was to respect their tradition. It is like you're sincerely doing the pledge of allegiance and a foreigner is purposely disrespecting the pledge. Is this right? Of course not. So one should show respect for others even if one does not believe in the others beliefs. And I think people also impose the "You're going to burn" mentality on all Christians when this is not true for many churches.

 

To summarize my entire post, religious tolerance is a bad term and its stupid because you get things like God paranoia. We should instead have religious respect which would be not to just tolerate the existence of other beliefs but allow them equality and be respectful to the execution of rituals and realize that religious things are a lot of the time oriented towards virtues and helping people indiscriminately.

[Nadril]

I think it is pretty messed up if it isn't a church owned place. For those saying they could go to another daycare, well, you have to think that there probably aren't any others (well we can't know for sure) or if there was if it'd be a major inconvenience for them. There is no reason to really bother bringing religion into things.

 

And yeah, the kids aren't going to give a crap but it still is going to stick in their minds.

 

Oh my ܩܕܝܫܛ ܐܠܚܐ (I said the "you know what" in my crazy foreign speak so that no one would be offended by "Its" name being imposed and shoved down their throat).

 

You can probably tell my opinion by reading my first line. I find it incredibly foolish when people make such a big deal over hearing or their children hearing the word 'god'

 

Stop over-reacting. It's not just that they are hearing the word "god" but are pretty much being made/taught to praise him. It may not necessarily do any harm but it also is incredibly unnecessary. If people want to pray it's fine but you really shouldn't add it into a daily sort of thing for everyone.

 

I do not care if someone is an atheist, they have all right to be, as long as they're a good person they're a good person regardless of credence or lack of adherence to one. The removal of anything religious from the public view is disguising though because it is the erasing of religion for those who will it. That is why I would instate a mandatory world's religion class that teaches students for at least have a year about all religions briefly, enabling them to make a fare choice to either be christian, muslim, jewish, buddhist, sikh, taoist, atheist, etc. and it would also double as a sociology class.

 

I have to disagree. I know that, personally, I would have found a religion class to be a waste of time. You learn about what the various religions believe and such in your basic history classes anyways and having to get tested on religion would just seem silly.

 

I'd be fine if religion was erased though. It'll probably never happen in my lifetime.

 

 

A structured religion helps convey a moral system easier then the derivation of independent morals from one's own "thought" island

 

Bull.

 

 

This singing the chant is portraying a message of thankfulness and teaching the virtue of being grateful, these children cannot comprehend such a complex being as God.

 

Why can't they just sing something saying thanks then without mentioning God? They have no comprehension of it but it doesn't mean that it won't stick with them. They tend to pay attention to authority figures at that age and someone telling you over and over that God is good is going to influence you.

 

 

Edit: To the guy who refused to display reverence during the prayer at the concert you went to, I suggest you reevaluate how you treat other belief systems other then your own (and if you listen to group prayers a lot of the time they're for nonsectarian causes, today my youth group prayed for people devastated by poverty and natural disasters) . I have gone to synagogue and worn a yamulka not because I have any particular belief in what the Jews do but I was a guest of their community and I was honored to be invited so I was to respect their tradition. It is like you're sincerely doing the pledge of allegiance and a foreigner is purposely disrespecting the pledge. Is this right? Of course not. So one should show respect for others even if one does not believe in the others beliefs. And I think people also impose the "You're going to burn" mentality on all Christians when this is not true for many churches.

 

If I was a religious man I would find it really disrespectful for someone to be pretending that they believe in whatever you believe in. I'd rather someone just sit in silence and be respectful.

[fakeitormakeit2]

I think it is pretty messed up if it isn't a church owned place. For those saying they could go to another daycare, well, you have to think that there probably aren't any others (well we can't know for sure) or if there was if it'd be a major inconvenience for them. There is no reason to really bother bringing religion into things.

 

And yeah, the kids aren't going to give a crap but it still is going to stick in their minds.

 

Oh my ܩܕܝܫܛ ܐܠܚܐ (I said the "you know what" in my crazy foreign speak so that no one would be offended by "Its" name being imposed and shoved down their throat).

 

You can probably tell my opinion by reading my first line. I find it incredibly foolish when people make such a big deal over hearing or their children hearing the word 'god'

 

Stop over-reacting. It's not just that they are hearing the word "god" but are pretty much being made/taught to praise him. It may not necessarily do any harm but it also is incredibly unnecessary. If people want to pray it's fine but you really shouldn't add it into a daily sort of thing for everyone.

 

I do not care if someone is an atheist, they have all right to be, as long as they're a good person they're a good person regardless of credence or lack of adherence to one. The removal of anything religious from the public view is disguising though because it is the erasing of religion for those who will it. That is why I would instate a mandatory world's religion class that teaches students for at least have a year about all religions briefly, enabling them to make a fare choice to either be christian, muslim, jewish, buddhist, sikh, taoist, atheist, etc. and it would also double as a sociology class.

 

I have to disagree. I know that, personally, I would have found a religion class to be a waste of time. You learn about what the various religions believe and such in your basic history classes anyways and having to get tested on religion would just seem silly.

 

I'd be fine if religion was erased though. It'll probably never happen in my lifetime.

 

 

A structured religion helps convey a moral system easier then the derivation of independent morals from one's own "thought" island

 

Bull.

 

 

This singing the chant is portraying a message of thankfulness and teaching the virtue of being grateful, these children cannot comprehend such a complex being as God.

 

Why can't they just sing something saying thanks then without mentioning God? They have no comprehension of it but it doesn't mean that it won't stick with them. They tend to pay attention to authority figures at that age and someone telling you over and over that God is good is going to influence you.

 

 

Edit: To the guy who refused to display reverence during the prayer at the concert you went to, I suggest you reevaluate how you treat other belief systems other then your own (and if you listen to group prayers a lot of the time they're for nonsectarian causes, today my youth group prayed for people devastated by poverty and natural disasters) . I have gone to synagogue and worn a yamulka not because I have any particular belief in what the Jews do but I was a guest of their community and I was honored to be invited so I was to respect their tradition. It is like you're sincerely doing the pledge of allegiance and a foreigner is purposely disrespecting the pledge. Is this right? Of course not. So one should show respect for others even if one does not believe in the others beliefs. And I think people also impose the "You're going to burn" mentality on all Christians when this is not true for many churches.

 

If I was a religious man I would find it really disrespectful for someone to be pretending that they believe in whatever you believe in. I'd rather someone just sit in silence and be respectful.

Do you realize you basically just rephrased what I said to do? You obviously didn't read what I wrote, I said respect, which does not require the belief in it (You can sing another national anthem out of respect but it doesn't mean you have to become a national of that country because you displayed respect). I do not require nor want anyone to believe what i believe but for instance if there was a prayer being said as part of the program or as part of a schedule or just a group of people and people were just talking [and loudly] I'd be annoyed, that's quite disrespectful.

 

And you admitted your own desire for the erasing of religion which is rather disgusting. To desire [or affirm it is ok which is allowing the destruction of therefore warranting while standing idle] the elimination of a set of beliefs that is beneficial to the understanding of values is completely absurd, not to mention how much money and volunteering organizations such as the Catholic Relief Services (to name one of many of just one religion) pour into helping people.

 

History teaches nothing about religion other then what empires were affiliated with what belief system.

 

It's BS being told about God young will make you follow religion, as in this age many people are reluctant to be religious because of religion related events in which they were forced (in reality or in their own opinion) to take belief in religion. But one can never know of God if he was never spoken of.

 

And seeing as how when teaching morals, a being of justice and the ultimate culmination of goodness and love is kind of excellent to sing about when you sing of gratefulness.

 

Edit: And It's not "Bull". Learning moral values from a religion would be easier then self investigation as they've already been pre-established and since religion is a societal thing you would have ready access to a multitude of sources and people to teach you of virtues, etc. then trial and error of finding everything out. Sort of like a guild of morality.

[RpgGamer]

lulwat

 

I used to do the same rhyme, only mine never mentioned god. "open shut them open shut them, lay them in your lap lap lap, open shut them open shut them, give a little clap clap clap, open shut them open shut them, now it's time to nap nap nap"

 

Where did god come from?

[Skull]

Where did god come from?

He was always here.

 

But don't forget, everything needs to have a creator.

[jasignhagj]

How would you feel if your children were being taught to sing "Communism is great!". Of course Im exaggerating, but its the same principle, one person forcing their beliefs on another.

[Skull]

Since I wasn't serious in my last post, I will be in this one.

 

I don't really think it's a big deal. If these kids are young enough they most likely don't know what they're singing and their parents probably take them to church anyways.

 

If this was a public school with older children, I might see a problem, but it's a privately run daycare. The parents have the choice of sending their kids there and more than likely pay for it. It's not like at that age kids really have a choice in that matter anyways, they do whatever their parents say. There's a big difference between forcing a 4 year old to go to church and forcing a 14 year old.

[Romy]

I don't really think it's a big deal. If these kids are young enough they most likely don't know what they're singing

I think it's worse that they don't know what they're singing. A 14 year old jew that will be preached about Christianity, will probably not pay much attention to it, most likely completely dismiss it. But a 4-10 year old, repeating the same rhymes thanking God on a daily basis, could easily feel a contradiction later in life when he hears the oh, so inappropriate idea of God not existing, or of a different God existing.

 

and their parents probably take them to church anyways.

Says who?

 

 

 

 

@Fakeitormaeit- with all due respect, you're definitely not respecting other posters when you say things like "Oh my ܩܕܝܫܛ ܐܠܚܐ (I said the "you know what" in my crazy foreign speak so that no one would be offended by "Its" name being imposed and shoved down their throat).

You can probably tell my opinion by reading my first line. I find it incredibly foolish when people make such a big deal over hearing or their children hearing the word 'god'"

 

Give me a break and don't twist the situation. A child witnessing and participating in such a "course", on a daily basis, HAS to be on the scale of either having some difficulties (small or big) dismissing the idea of God, or blindly following religion... unless, ofcourse, his parents are strict atheists, etc.

You can't deny that.

[purfishx]

 

I think it's worse that they don't know what they're singing. A 14 year old jew that will be preached about Christianity, will probably not pay much attention to it, most likely completely dismiss it. But a 4-10 year old, repeating the same rhymes thanking God on a daily basis, could easily feel a contradiction later in life when he hears the oh, so inappropriate idea of God not existing, or of a different God existing.

 

 

And then he/she will make a decision on what they want to believe in from there. And honestly, I don't see how one little grace ('chant' seems a bit much) is forcing religion onto someone compared to something like making them read the bible everyday. Are there any other reasons why this is 'wrong' ?

[Nadril]

How would you feel if your children were being taught to sing "Communism is great!". Of course Im exaggerating, but its the same principle, one person forcing their beliefs on another.

 

Pretty decent point I think. An over-exaggeration probably but I agree with you. After all they aren't going to have any real comprehension of it, would they?

 

 

And you admitted your own desire for the erasing of religion which is rather disgusting. To desire [or affirm it is ok which is allowing the destruction of therefore warranting while standing idle] the elimination of a set of beliefs that is beneficial to the understanding of values is completely absurd, not to mention how much money and volunteering organizations such as the Catholic Relief Services (to name one of many of just one religion) pour into helping people.

 

History teaches nothing about religion other then what empires were affiliated with what belief system.

 

It's BS being told about God young will make you follow religion, as in this age many people are reluctant to be religious because of religion related events in which they were forced (in reality or in their own opinion) to take belief in religion. But one can never know of God if he was never spoken of.

 

And seeing as how when teaching morals, a being of justice and the ultimate culmination of goodness and love is kind of excellent to sing about when you sing of gratefulness.

 

Edit: And It's not "Bull". Learning moral values from a religion would be easier then self investigation as they've already been pre-established and since religion is a societal thing you would have ready access to a multitude of sources and people to teach you of virtues, etc. then trial and error of finding everything out. Sort of like a guild of morality.

 

Lemme reply to some of this separately.

 

 

And you admitted your own desire for the erasing of religion which is rather disgusting. To desire [or affirm it is ok which is allowing the destruction of therefore warranting while standing idle] the elimination of a set of beliefs that is beneficial to the understanding of values is completely absurd, not to mention how much money and volunteering organizations such as the Catholic Relief Services (to name one of many of just one religion) pour into helping people.

 

I just think it'd be better for people to help others for the sake of helping and not because their God told them to do so. I already said it was an unrealistic idea but, yes, I would say the world would be a better place without religion.

 

History teaches nothing about religion other then what empires were affiliated with what belief system.

 

My History courses have always taught about at least their basic beliefs.

 

It's BS being told about God young will make you follow religion, as in this age many people are reluctant to be religious because of religion related events in which they were forced (in reality or in their own opinion) to take belief in religion. But one can never know of God if he was never spoken of.

 

I never said it would really. It might though. I really don't actually find this entire thing to be an "outrage" anyways, I just think it's stupid that they have to sing about God.

 

And seeing as how when teaching morals, a being of justice and the ultimate culmination of goodness and love is kind of excellent to sing about when you sing of gratefulness.

 

Edit: And It's not "Bull". Learning moral values from a religion would be easier then self investigation as they've already been pre-established and since religion is a societal thing you would have ready access to a multitude of sources and people to teach you of virtues, etc. then trial and error of finding everything out. Sort of like a guild of morality.

 

It is bull. I see no reason why there would be an advantage to learning morality from religion. I don't know, I just really dislike the idea of getting morality from the idea that if you don't do such and such you'll go to hell (instead of just saying that you should be a good person for the sake of, oh I don't know, being a good person).

[obfuscator]

It's up to the parents sending their children to the place that they see fit.

[Romy]

 

I think it's worse that they don't know what they're singing. A 14 year old jew that will be preached about Christianity, will probably not pay much attention to it, most likely completely dismiss it. But a 4-10 year old, repeating the same rhymes thanking God on a daily basis, could easily feel a contradiction later in life when he hears the oh, so inappropriate idea of God not existing, or of a different God existing.

 

 

And then he/she will make a decision on what they want to believe in from there. And honestly, I don't see how one little grace ('chant' seems a bit much) is forcing religion onto someone compared to something like making them read the bible everyday. Are there any other reasons why this is 'wrong' ?

 

But that decision will be affected by what he/she repeated so many times. Personally, I see this as wrong.

[Racheya]

I'll tell you what's more dangerous than that little chant - TV!

 

I went to a Church of England school for 7 years, did hymns EVERY day and am I a Christian? No. Do you know why? Because I watched [bleep]ing STAR TREK. :rolleyes:

[dusqi]

What if the kids were chanting "Thank-you Dawkins for helping us to realise that only man's science grew and prepared this food" or "Thank-you Obama and the Democrats for funding the food we're about to eat". Would there be a problem with this?

 

It's just a chant after all.

 

 

 

Even kids can pair up food with saying the word "God" and so in future get happy feelings whenever they hear "God" again.

[Skull]

I didn't even know what "God" was until I was maybe 7. Singing something as basic as that sure as hell wouldn't have taught me anything about God at all. You don't make that choice on going to church, what religion you're affiliated with, etc until you're probably at least 13 years old anyways. Besides, it's a private daycare. It's not subject to the laws a public school is since the parents have a choice to send their children there. I assume they're aware of what their children are singing, otherwise they're probably not great parents.

 

As I said before, there would be an issue if it was a public school. There's no problem at all with a privately owned company (since it's essentially a company) having religion incorporated with it.

 

Also I can tell this is going to turn into the butt-hurt ranting by the same people that do it in every thread that even has a tiny mention of religion in it, so I'm going to avoid this thread from here on out which means I won't reply to anything posted in response to this. So sorry about that, I guess?

[Giordano]

 

I think it's worse that they don't know what they're singing. A 14 year old jew that will be preached about Christianity, will probably not pay much attention to it, most likely completely dismiss it. But a 4-10 year old, repeating the same rhymes thanking God on a daily basis, could easily feel a contradiction later in life when he hears the oh, so inappropriate idea of God not existing, or of a different God existing.

Or you know, "God is a loves all and is righteously good." PERIOD. God doesn't have to be paired up with Church, saints, symbols, Pope, suicide bombs, beef-free diet, etc.

 

And let them be contradicted. The best way to an open mind is questing your OWN beliefs.