Anyone help me with some workout info?

[assassin_696]

Yeah, I mean as others have said if you think about it starting with machines then moving to free weights is almost always a bad way of doing it. Because if you started on say a bench machine that'll train your pecs exclusively and you might get them stronger on it. But when you come to do it on free weights your stabilising muscles (triceps, deltoids, neck, back etc.) won't have been developed as much so you'll have a false sense of what you can really lift and might injure yourself if you try and translate what you can lift on the machine to the free bench.

 

Okay, so you might think that lifting just the bar won't look that great at first but what do you care what other people think? Let them carry on with their partial squats and endless bicep curls.

[fastortoise]

Okay, so you might think that lifting just the bar won't look that great at first but what do you care what other people think? Let them carry on with their partial squats and endless bicep curls.

Good advice. At first I avoided bench presses because I could only lift the bar, but then I noticed the gym was full of huge guys who watch their muscles bulge as they lifted and checked their work in the mirror after each set. Now whenever I see someone lifting the bar I always think about how ballsy he is.

[Myweponsg00d]

 

 

 

Beat me to it.

 

Weaponsgood:

You say that you should use the machine to get your muscles stronger before trying free weights, but you don't need to be strong to do free weights. You can start with the same weight with free weights as you can with a machine. And as for the technique, machines usually only teach you poor form

 

PS: This is a great video for helping to understand and fix proper bench form

http://www.tmuscle.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance/dave_tates_sixweek_bench_press_cure

 

I just really have to disagree. I have seen many cases where a skinny dude with no athletic experience will come in the gym and start using free weights. He ends up hurting himself or almost hurting himself just because he has absolutely no athletic experience.

 

It is true that you could probably start with very very light free weights, but it isn't going to get you a good workout. You're gonna need to go so light that you will hardly be breaking a sweat.

 

Also, when I am doing my bench work and stuff, I know from experience how much I CAN and SHOULD be able to lift each workout. A TRUE novice to lifting will have very inconsistent performance simply due to lack of muscle coordination. He might get under the bench one day and do 50 lbs more than he thought he was going to do. Why? Because he may have "accidentally" arched his back (or otherwise used a non-standard form). Then the next time he goes to use the bench, he puts on the same weight but ends up hurting himself because he wasn't aware that the incorrect form he used earlier in the week allowed him to lift way more than he shouldve.

 

I mean, this is just an example. My advice is really just for completely unathletic people who have never set foot in a gym in their life. Starting to lift on machines can help the novice lifter make the brain-body connection, while safely lifting a challenging ammount of weight. If you wanted to do 100% free weights, and train safely, I think you would need to do much lower weight just to develop your coordination without hurting yourself.

 

And further, I think machines can help inspire a novice to go to the gym. Free weight exercises are more challenging. When you are talking about someone who hasn't even been able to work up the courage to ENTER the gym, going over and benching 80 pounds amongst people who are lifting huge weights can be discouraging. Go to the gym, use the easy machines for awhile, and get yourself comfortable and confident in the environment. While at the same time, getting your central nervous system used to doing some work.

 

Machines aren't evil. I mean, I never use them except for the cable station.

 

But nonetheless, they are a tool. And just like any other tool, there is a time and a place for its use. You dont use a saw to drive in a nail. Machines wont be right for everybody, but it was how I personally got started in the gym, and I wouldn't go back and change it.

[Bloodstain]

 

 

I just really have to disagree. I have seen many cases where a skinny dude with no athletic experience will come in the gym and start using free weights. He ends up hurting himself or almost hurting himself just because he has absolutely no athletic experience.

 

It is true that you could probably start with very very light free weights, but it isn't going to get you a good workout. You're gonna need to go so light that you will hardly be breaking a sweat.

 

Also, when I am doing my bench work and stuff, I know from experience how much I CAN and SHOULD be able to lift each workout. A TRUE novice to lifting will have very inconsistent performance simply due to lack of muscle coordination. He might get under the bench one day and do 50 lbs more than he thought he was going to do. Why? Because he may have "accidentally" arched his back (or otherwise used a non-standard form). Then the next time he goes to use the bench, he puts on the same weight but ends up hurting himself because he wasn't aware that the incorrect form he used earlier in the week allowed him to lift way more than he shouldve.

 

I mean, this is just an example. My advice is really just for completely unathletic people who have never set foot in a gym in their life. Starting to lift on machines can help the novice lifter make the brain-body connection, while safely lifting a challenging ammount of weight. If you wanted to do 100% free weights, and train safely, I think you would need to do much lower weight just to develop your coordination without hurting yourself.

 

And further, I think machines can help inspire a novice to go to the gym. Free weight exercises are more challenging. When you are talking about someone who hasn't even been able to work up the courage to ENTER the gym, going over and benching 80 pounds amongst people who are lifting huge weights can be discouraging. Go to the gym, use the easy machines for awhile, and get yourself comfortable and confident in the environment. While at the same time, getting your central nervous system used to doing some work.

 

Machines aren't evil. I mean, I never use them except for the cable station.

 

But nonetheless, they are a tool. And just like any other tool, there is a time and a place for its use. You dont use a saw to drive in a nail. Machines wont be right for everybody, but it was how I personally got started in the gym, and I wouldn't go back and change it.

 

Most of your argument seems to center around the idea that the person could hurt themselves, which is not a problem of free weights but of form. A person can still have [cabbage]ty form on a machine. And machines usually just mess up proper form (Damn you assisted squats), it's better to just start the right way and reap all the benefits of doing the best way. And yeah, you might have to start with low weights the first week or two to test the waters and see how much weight you should use, but the same can be said for machines. Unless you mean that on machines you can't drop the weights (just use a spotter, or learn how to dump weights safely).

 

You also pointed out things like the person using bad form/lifting too much, that's not a problem with freeweights, that's a problem of a stupid person. If they take a couple minutes to look at a couple videos and what not, they'll be fine. If someone walks in with no knowledge of how to do the exercise right, then there's potential for injury when they use both free weights and machines. Plus if you start with machines you will usually be able to do more weight on them than with free weights, which can make transitioning from machine to free difficult/frustrating

 

Machines aren't evil, but they aren't nearly as beneficial as free weights. And arching the back when you bench isn't bad (as long as it isn't lower back/butt off the bench).

 

And for people who find it intimidating being surrounded by a bunch of muscley guys, some advice: No one cares what exercises you are doing or how much you can lift. Everyone is there for them, not to worry about what you're doing. Hell, I've met some damn nice huge muscle guys at the gym and no mean ones, and some have even helped me with my form without me asking. If anything, most will respect you for making a change in your life and getting to the gym and working out.

[Myweponsg00d]

 

 

a) Most of your argument seems to center around the idea that the person could hurt themselves, which is not a problem of free weights but of form....

b)Unless you mean that on machines you can't drop the weights (just use a spotter, or learn how to dump weights safely).

c) that's a problem of a stupid person.

d) Plus if you start with machines you will usually be able to do more weight on them than with free weights, which can make transitioning from machine to free difficult/frustrating

e) Machines aren't evil, but they aren't nearly as beneficial as free weights.

 

f) And for people who find it intimidating being surrounded by a bunch of muscley guys, some advice: No one cares what exercises you are doing or how much you can lift. Everyone is there for them, not to worry about what you're doing. Hell, I've met some damn nice huge muscle guys at the gym and no mean ones, and some have even helped me with my form without me asking. If anything, most will respect you for making a change in your life and getting to the gym and working out.

 

a) What I am saying actually is that it can be hard to even LEARN the form when you are starting as a total weakling. On machines, your form is a little less important, and a little less difficult to [bleep] up, so this can give you a little "base strength" before you start learning the free weights.

B) Yeah, if you have a spotter or an experienced friend to help you, this can be better to do.

c) I would say its a problem of an uninformed/inexperienced person. You might think it would be easy to learn everything you already know, but some people dont even KNOW that they are uninformed.

d) Yup. That would be one negative of using machines first.

e) Thats all I am trying to say is there is absolutely no reason to ignore any piece of gym equipment. Its all usefull in some way. I use nothing but free weights and the cable station. Just making a case for why you COULD use machines at first if you feel more comfortable there.

f) Yeah this is something I always tell people. Now that I am stronger I look at the wimpy newbies in the gym and usually end up thinking "Good for you, man. I hope you stay with it." I never think "GET THE [bleep] OUT OF MY GYM YOU SKINNY [wagon]"