Tip.it Times 26 April 2010

[Siobhana]

Time for a new release of the: >>>Tip.It Times!<<<

 

When replying please make sure to clarify the article you are replying to! Thanks!

 

Enjoy the articles!

[Numismaster]

There is only one article . . .

 

I feel that the new skill was correctly called a skill (although quite different form the other skills) due to its immense size and complexity. It's too big to be called an activity. Plus activities don't usually evolve as you get better at them (i. e. more dungeon floors with higher Dungeoneering level as opposed to 100 Soul Wars matches that are all identical).

[izakiwi2]

I'm still waiting to test out the new skill. From what I hear it is very frustrating at lower levels.

I'm looking forward to being able to study Tipit's guides and tackle the new skill.

[strilmus]

I, um.....I'm sorry.

 

The DYK is like saying "Use keys to open doors!"

 

Perhaps you should try something else like "NPC human mobs in the dungeon have the same defence values associated with the type and tier of armor they are wearing. This also applies to their weapon and attack style." or "The smuggler can give you tips on how to fight the boss once you've found it." or "Gatestones can be used to escape the boss room except for certain foes like the Icefiend."

 

Maybe just "In dungeoneering, fires made from higher grade wood are less likely to burn fish." That one isn't immediately obvious.

[Racheya]

If you have any suggestions for DYKs (we can run out of them pretty quickly), then PM them to a Times member or Mirrorforced.

[strilmus]

As for the article, it's kind of unclear how where the skill development will actually go, seeing as the whole dungeoneering content team apparently can't agree at all with what they're planning to do with it.

 

But I remain cautiously optimistic.

[Siobhana]

I, um.....I'm sorry.

 

The DYK is like saying "Use keys to open doors!"

 

Perhaps you should try something else like "NPC human mobs in the dungeon have the same defence values associated with the type and tier of armor they are wearing. This also applies to their weapon and attack style." or "The smuggler can give you tips on how to fight the boss once you've found it." or "Gatestones can be used to escape the boss room except for certain foes like the Icefiend."

 

Maybe just "In dungeoneering, fires made from higher grade wood are less likely to burn fish." That one isn't immediately obvious.

 

As Racheya said, the DYK's tend to run out quickly. Also, it isn't necessarily that obvious seeing how you cannot trade charms outside of dungeoneering. I for one didn't even think about trying to sell them before I had it pointed out to me.

[obidiah]

I feel regardless of the rewards it needs to be a skill, as a lot of it revolves around unlocking more dungeon levels as you level up. - thus unlocking higher prestige levels and better XP.

 

They'll always be some people who don't like a new skill, you can't please everyone after all. In the past there have been calls to remove new skills from such people.

 

This time there is enough depth to the skill that it probably could be converted to a minigame. - so people are trying to get that to happen rather than have it removed - as they feel that is more likely to happen. As a minigame they can ignore it as it's no longer a requirement for competing in overall hiscores.

 

However I think it's lose a lot of what makes it good if it were converted to a minigame. (which people who don't like may not understand as they don't think it's good anyway) I wouldn't want that, I like dungeoneering as a skill.

It's a fundamental enough change that I can't see it happening though.

 

I agree more actual uses for the skill would be nice and would counter some peoples misgivings about the skill, but even if there were I can imagine there would still be an "it's a minigame" crowd

[benben9992000]

Its Fun. Its a good skill.

[91soldin91]

The thing that the author got wrong, in my opinion, is that for all of the other skills he mentioned, you can train them without training the skill's that go along with it. All of the materials to train the skills he mentioned (fletch, smith) can be purchased through the G.E. and someone else can train the gathering skill (woodcut, mining). Also, these skills are dependent on only a one or two skills where as dung. is dependent on every single skill. The author also didn't mention the tokens aspect of the skill which gives it that mini-game feel.

[Mdeoxys]

Good article! I liked reading it :).

[Othelbark]

There is only one article . . .

 

I feel that the new skill was correctly called a skill (although quite different form the other skills) due to its immense size and complexity. It's too big to be called an activity. Plus activities don't usually evolve as you get better at them (i. e. more dungeon floors with higher Dungeoneering level as opposed to 100 Soul Wars matches that are all identical).

 

I agree they were right to call it a skill.

Although it is very like an activity, to fix this they just need to implement it better, ie: the ability to use your Dungeoneering level to access special dungeons which upon completion give you access to new slayer monsters, new mines(possibly even new ores!).

 

Any way you get it, this post is becoming a full blown suggestion, i should stop now.

[ForsakenMage]

The thing that the author got wrong, in my opinion, is that for all of the other skills he mentioned, you can train them without training the skill's that go along with it. All of the materials to train the skills he mentioned (fletch, smith) can be purchased through the G.E. and someone else can train the gathering skill (woodcut, mining). Also, these skills are dependent on only a one or two skills where as dung. is dependent on every single skill. The author also didn't mention the tokens aspect of the skill which gives it that mini-game feel.

I actually did mention the GE briefly.

 

Ores don't just magically appear from the Grand Exchange, nor do we really get enough as drops from monsters to get from level 1 to 99. The majority of ores have to come from somewhere, i.e. the resources collected from mining.

 

Someone, not necessarily you, is providing for those materials. The tokens bit I didn't want to mention because the main focus was on the skill itself, not the rewards reaped from it. Skills depending on the other skills has been around for ages. That was the point I was trying to get across.

[commandokad]

Cool story what should happen for next week's article is explaining the story behind dungeoneering

 

oh how would i send a story for tip.it times in?

 

~kad

[Racheya]

If you have an article or story for the Tip.It times - send it in to one of our editorial panel or Mirrorforced who is our editor in chief :)

[91soldin91]

The thing that the author got wrong, in my opinion, is that for all of the other skills he mentioned, you can train them without training the skill's that go along with it. All of the materials to train the skills he mentioned (fletch, smith) can be purchased through the G.E. and someone else can train the gathering skill (woodcut, mining). Also, these skills are dependent on only a one or two skills where as dung. is dependent on every single skill. The author also didn't mention the tokens aspect of the skill which gives it that mini-game feel.

I actually did mention the GE briefly.

 

Ores don't just magically appear from the Grand Exchange, nor do we really get enough as drops from monsters to get from level 1 to 99. The majority of ores have to come from somewhere, i.e. the resources collected from mining.

 

Someone, not necessarily you, is providing for those materials. The tokens bit I didn't want to mention because the main focus was on the skill itself, not the rewards reaped from it. Skills depending on the other skills has been around for ages. That was the point I was trying to get across.

 

First off I would like to thank you for your quick reply.

 

Although dependent skills have been around for ever, dungeoneering took it one step further by including every skill in game. You did mention the G.E. and said that things don't magically appear and someone else has to train the skill to get the supplies, however you don't need to train the skill yourself. Dungeoneering does not allow you to buy supplies from the G.E. as a substitute to a low level in a skill so you must train the skill yourself or rely on another person directly (I don't consider the G.E. depending on another person because you don't interact with another person, and its fairly reliable). In all other dependent skills you can train only one of the two with no penalty to efficiency, In dungeoneering not training all of the dependent skills reduces your efficiency by a lot. This reliance on other skills or other players is far more apparent in dungeoneering than any other skill and makes me think of it as more of a mini-game than a skill.

 

I think that people see how different, yet similar dungeoneering is to all the other skills and mini-games in runescape already, that it makes it hard to place it in one category when it has aspects from almost every part of runescape. Hell, it even has a quest aspect with all the journals you collect as you advance through the dungeon. Thats why I feel that dungeoneering isn't a skill or a mini-game, but is in a class of its own.

[ForsakenMage]

The thing that the author got wrong, in my opinion, is that for all of the other skills he mentioned, you can train them without training the skill's that go along with it. All of the materials to train the skills he mentioned (fletch, smith) can be purchased through the G.E. and someone else can train the gathering skill (woodcut, mining). Also, these skills are dependent on only a one or two skills where as dung. is dependent on every single skill. The author also didn't mention the tokens aspect of the skill which gives it that mini-game feel.

I actually did mention the GE briefly.

 

Ores don't just magically appear from the Grand Exchange, nor do we really get enough as drops from monsters to get from level 1 to 99. The majority of ores have to come from somewhere, i.e. the resources collected from mining.

 

Someone, not necessarily you, is providing for those materials. The tokens bit I didn't want to mention because the main focus was on the skill itself, not the rewards reaped from it. Skills depending on the other skills has been around for ages. That was the point I was trying to get across.

 

First off I would like to thank you for your quick reply.

 

Although dependent skills have been around for ever, dungeoneering took it one step further by including every skill in game. You did mention the G.E. and said that things don't magically appear and someone else has to train the skill to get the supplies, however you don't need to train the skill yourself. Dungeoneering does not allow you to buy supplies from the G.E. as a substitute to a low level in a skill so you must train the skill yourself or rely on another person directly (I don't consider the G.E. depending on another person because you don't interact with another person, and its fairly reliable). In all other dependent skills you can train only one of the two with no penalty to efficiency, In dungeoneering not training all of the dependent skills reduces your efficiency by a lot. This reliance on other skills or other players is far more apparent in dungeoneering than any other skill and makes me think of it as more of a mini-game than a skill.

 

I think that people see how different, yet similar dungeoneering is to all the other skills and mini-games in runescape already, that it makes it hard to place it in one category when it has aspects from almost every part of runescape. Hell, it even has a quest aspect with all the journals you collect as you advance through the dungeon. Thats why I feel that dungeoneering isn't a skill or a mini-game, but is in a class of its own.

No problem. :) Been making an effort to try to respond more to any questions regarding the articles I write to clarify any points necessary as well as continue the discussion further (which is always great because it helps us with later articles).

 

Technically you can actually buy some raw materials through the smuggler, albeit very limited and cash isn't exactly easy to come by in the dungeons. For soloing the skill it would make sense to say that we may not have all the skills needed to interact correctly in order to complete the entire dungeon, but in parties it kind of works like the GE (let's say the GE as just a medium between the players) and rest of the game as a whole in terms of someone running to get the ores or wood, making runes, opening skill-specific doors, etc. From my experience so far, it seems to be more efficient to train the skill with a group to get through the dungeons faster rather than solo, which would definitely make it feel like a mini-game, but also demonstrates how the game works as a whole in a more apparent way.

 

I agree with you when you say that dungeoneering does have a quest aspect to it as well with the journals. ;)

 

Dungeoneering, if I recall correctly, was meant to be a mini-game but later geared to be a skill instead. I guess for now we just need to wait and see how dungeoneering will play a part in the game outside of Daemonheim. This is probably the key to defining what Dungeoneering is because right now the fact that we can only train it in ONE PLACE gives it a feel of a mini-game (in addition to the tokens of course), whereas agility for example has many areas to train in.

 

Still fun to discuss and debate on what dungeoneering is though. ^_^

[Asmodeous4]

Enjoyed the article and I do hope that Dungeoneering will have more practical uses outside Daemonheim. In quests, new areas or simply a D'n'D where, say 5, random dungeons are created across the world, with a set number of floors and rewards such as a new costume (e.g. statless Primal armour), tokens or experience in other random skills when the boss (perhaps the boss it is, is unique to the region the dungeon is in, e.g. a Grindelwald type creature in Fremmenik) at the end is killed... That went on for longer than expected! :thumbsup:

[Logdotzip]

I liked the article. I hadn't realized penguins could write.

 

I have very high hopes for batch 2 of Sailing... More floors would be fun

 

 

although recently I find it a chore to logon at all anymore.

[applyapple]

I like it being a skill. Except-It's too hard to train and doesn't have enough uses.

 

It's not worth the weeks of tears of guthix that it will get in the way of

[Earth_Poet]

Yes, Dungeoneering uses many different skills, but here's the problem. If you need a higher level in one of those skills, then Dungeoneering is the LAST place to be. Don't bother training Dungeoneering until all of your other skills are leveled up. It'd be like having to kill chickens and ogres until your combat was maxed out BEFORE starting on Slayer. It'd be like having to get 99 Mining before you can even smith that first ore, because ores can only be bought with mining tokens. You will not accumulate anything while playing Dungeoneering. It's a one way street for skills.

 

Originally, I liked the mini-game feel, because it worked away from the grinding effect. Now I feel it grinds worse than any other skill. It wouldn't be so bad, but I can't take anything with me. Except for this worthless ring. Yeah, you HAVE to take that with you. So I have to run around making armor and building enough cash to get materials to make my armor only to have to start all over again at the start of each new floor. I might be able to understand losing items when you leave the dungeon, but after each floor? Again, nothing can be accumulated. Which means you're getting out of it exactly what you're putting into it: nothing.

 

You may not want to mention rewards, but you have to wonder what they were thinking when they came up with these arbitrary requirements. Congratulations, you are level 21 Dungeoneering and can now use a Bonecrusher. Yeah. Thanks. Except it's going to take me till level 40 before I can get enough tokens to buy the damn thing. Why not just make the requirements level 40? Stupid. Stupid. Stupid.

 

The only reason why I was doing Dungeoneering was because I wanted to keep up a total level, but screw it I could care less now.

[Llavada]

It's clear that Dungeoneering isn't what most people in this game would recognise as a skill, but it's obviously far far more than another mini-game

 

In fact it's more like an expansion pack where players put their existing knowledge, experience and abilities to the test

 

Jagex should have introduced this as "THE SUPERSKILL" with the tagline "ARE YOU READY FOR THE ULTIMATE RUNESCAPE CHALLENGE?"

 

(They shouldn't have used that pathetic ring as the skill icon but rather the RuneScape sword from from the front page)

 

And they should left have Dungeoneering off the normal Hiscores, rather sticking it at the top of the list in its own category in big huge letters, so that high levels in it brought uber-high game status

 

If Dungeoneering had been released in this matter then i feel that players would have responded much more positively

[Asmodeous4]

It's clear that Dungeoneering isn't what most people in this game would recognise as a skill, but it's obviously far far more than another mini-game

 

In fact it's more like an expansion pack where players put their existing knowledge, experience and abilities to the test

 

Jagex should have introduced this as "THE SUPERSKILL" with the tagline "ARE YOU READY FOR THE ULTIMATE RUNESCAPE CHALLENGE?"

 

(They shouldn't have used that pathetic ring as the skill icon but rather the RuneScape sword from from the front page)

 

And they should left have Dungeoneering off the normal Hiscores, rather sticking it at the top of the list in its own category in big huge letters, so that high levels in it brought uber-high game status

 

If Dungeoneering had been released in this matter then i feel that players would have responded much more positively

 

Us RSer's aren't THAT simple. ;) (And Attack icon bring back any memories?)

[Echocut]

Great article this week, even though there is only one. :|

 

I had mixed feelings about this skill too, considering it was difficult being efficient during solo runs. The goal of this skill (in order to be more efficient in this skill) is to go with a group. For example:

 

Say you need 88 Runecrafting to open a door, and yet you have 60.

During a solo run, you wouldn't be able to open this.

However, in a group, you have a possibility of opening this door becuase someone else just might have the requirement (or be able to boost to the level) to open.

 

I understand what FSM is trying to say, but I couldn't help but to say this.

Think of this as a way to 'fill in the gaps'.

 

So far, I love this skill. ;-) Cannot wait to see what the expansion set is going to be.

 

-Echocut

 

The only thing they need to change is the shape of the crecent. In the inventory, it looks like a banana, but on the door it has a Pac-Man shape to it. *Remembers being in a dungeon for 10 minutes longer because I couldn't get that connection*

I knew I could find out what the key is by right-clicking and whatnot, but still. #-o

[3hitm4g3u]

I can't work out if Jagex purposely made Dungeoneering as boring as possible to make the rewards harder to get or if Jagex had a group crack-smoking session while playing WoW and came up with Dungeoneering during it.