Dungeoneering & System Updates?

[Danqazmlp]

It has been happening for 5+ years with Cw. Clan wars, barbarian assault, trouble brewing, SC, MA. It's nothing new. Just because now it effects you it should be changed? It is only going to be 30-50k exp you lose, no big deal.

So it makes more sense to piss off thousands of customers every week for absolutely no reason, rather than simply give more notice, something that solves the problem for 99% of players and costs them absolutely nothing?

 

But we do not know it costs them nothing. i would guess that they give the warning when they are ready to implement the update. That means for those 10 minutes, nobody can do any more work. Time is money and a company will not want to waste an hour where they cannot do anything. Half an hour may be ok, but it still does not seem like much of a big deal to me.

[qeltar]

But we do not know it costs them nothing. i would guess that they give the warning when they are ready to implement the update. That means for those 10 minutes, nobody can do any more work.

Sorry, but that makes no sense whatsoever. Software development just doesn't work that way.

 

We heard all of this same exact nonsense when it was 2 or 3 minutes, how they couldn't possibly make it 5 or 10 minutes, zomg, the world would end, human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together, etc. Lo and behold, they did it.

 

They can make it longer than 10 minutes the same way.

 

Even if they don't set the actual system timer to 60 minutes, they can very easily say "we are planning a system update roughly between M:00 and N:00 this afternoon, so plan accordingly". Then carry on as before. Simple, saves a lot of frustration, and doesn't impede them in any way.

 

Or, they can just ignore the issue because they don't care.

[Danqazmlp]

It impedes them a lot. If they run into technical difficulties in that time, you know the community in Runescape. They will be hung drawn and quartered for saying they planned an update for x time, even if it was something minor.

[qeltar]

It impedes them a lot.

You have yet to explain how. If you actually think that a software company has everyone sitting around on their hands from the time they announce an update until when it happens, well, you're wrong. And if you think Jagex only knows 10 minutes before an update goes live that it's going to go live, well, again, you're wrong.

 

If they run into technical difficulties in that time, you know the community in Runescape. They will be hung drawn and quartered for saying they planned an update for x time, even if it was something minor.

The community is the way it is in large part because of the very "keep them in the dark" policies that you are defending!

 

Most RS players start every week expecting an update by 4 pm GMT on Monday. When that doesn't happen, they expect an update by 4 pm GMT on Tuesday and so on. Why? Because updates often occur on Monday or Tuesday, and Jagex never tells us what the hell is going on. The expectation is there already -- what is NOT there is any useful information.

 

Most of the time they know which day of the week is going to be the update day. So tell us! And if it slips, it slips. Guess what? They're doing this already anyway. Except the only time we hear from them is when things go wrong. Tell us in advance, warn that dates aren't set in concrete, and if people whine, IGNORE THEM. That is the proper way to do things.

 

They are at least getting better about telling us when updates are delayed. They are unfortunately missing out on the positive potential here that they could reap by telling us when the updates are scheduled.

 

The idea that all of the reasonable customers should be kept in the dark because a few unreasonable sots will complain if a deadline slips is too preposterous to seriously consider.

[BeNiceOk]

They are at least getting better about telling us when updates are delayed. They are unfortunately missing out on the positive potential here that they could reap by telling us when the updates are scheduled.

 

If Jagex are tired of people whining about when an update doesn't come on a certain week, what makes you think they are going to assign a day, or even an hour to an update? Frankly they just don't know when its going to be ready until it's ready.

 

I mean common, what your asking for is just silly. Example:

 

Say you make your way to a fine dining restaurant. After ordering your meal, you expect it to be cooked and prepared in a reasonable amount of time. You wait 5 minutes, no food yet, 10 minutes, still nothing, 15, still nothing. Now what you are asking for is the cook to come out every 5 minutes and explain what he is doing and why it is taking so long to do it.

 

Asking the cook to give a definite, down to the minute, time when your food will be prepared is just impossible. Asking for him to explain what is going on and how long it might take every 5 minutes just wastes his and your time, since every minute he is explaining is a minute he isn't cooking. And God-forbid if it's not done when he says it should be, it would make you furious and more impatient the food isn't done when promised.

 

The situation here really isn't that different. You can't expect Jagex to give any time table other than a general month when an update will come out because frankly they don't know what might change, what bugs there could be, and what other variables could push the update back. They are sure as [cabbage] are not gonna push out an update that isn't ready just cause the calender says it should be. And if the update is pushed back behind the "set date" that only makes them look bad and people more furious things aren't done when they said it would be.

 

Your asking for something Jagex already said they would not give for obvious reasons. Even big companies like Bungie don't give out release dates until content is completed in production and passed QA.

[Emmentail]

People have been raging about system updates and fight caves for ages. Nothing gets done, dungeoneering certainly wont prompt a change.

 

My original post was in relation to this one.

 

I don't expect Jagex to do anything about system updates for as we know they didn't bother to put the resources together to allow solo players to rejoin games that they may have disconnected from.

[RSBDavid]

But we do not know it costs them nothing. i would guess that they give the warning when they are ready to implement the update. That means for those 10 minutes, nobody can do any more work.

 

What they do is after they are ready to update, they send the "System update in 10:00". While this is running, they are transferring the new client and cache to each game server. It really only takes a minute or so max due to their internet speed, but after the countdown is over, all players are kicked and forced to download the new client when reloading the page. They most likely have a few lines of code which looks something like:

 

(hard coded)

int WarningMinutes = 10;

Date now = new Date();
long curTime = System.getCurrentTImeMillis;
Date in10Mins = new Date(now.getTime() + WarningMinutes * Timer.ONE_MINUTE);

sendGlobalMessage("System update in  " + (String) in10Mins);
updateClient();
long curTime2 = System.getCurrentTImeMillis;
if(  curTime2 - (int) in10Mins == curTime){

CloseAllConnections();
}

 

If that is the case, all they would have to do is change int WarningMinutes = 10; to int WarningMinutes = 30;

 

It would be a pretty simple thing to do.

 

I would prefer once a month updates on the first Tuesday of each month though.

[Danqazmlp]

It impedes them a lot.

You have yet to explain how. If you actually think that a software company has everyone sitting around on their hands from the time they announce an update until when it happens, well, you're wrong. And if you think Jagex only knows 10 minutes before an update goes live that it's going to go live, well, again, you're wrong.

 

If they run into technical difficulties in that time, you know the community in Runescape. They will be hung drawn and quartered for saying they planned an update for x time, even if it was something minor.

The community is the way it is in large part because of the very "keep them in the dark" policies that you are defending!

 

Most RS players start every week expecting an update by 4 pm GMT on Monday. When that doesn't happen, they expect an update by 4 pm GMT on Tuesday and so on. Why? Because updates often occur on Monday or Tuesday, and Jagex never tells us what the hell is going on. The expectation is there already -- what is NOT there is any useful information.

 

Most of the time they know which day of the week is going to be the update day. So tell us! And if it slips, it slips. Guess what? They're doing this already anyway. Except the only time we hear from them is when things go wrong. Tell us in advance, warn that dates aren't set in concrete, and if people whine, IGNORE THEM. That is the proper way to do things.

 

They are at least getting better about telling us when updates are delayed. They are unfortunately missing out on the positive potential here that they could reap by telling us when the updates are scheduled.

 

The idea that all of the reasonable customers should be kept in the dark because a few unreasonable sots will complain if a deadline slips is too preposterous to seriously consider.

 

 

Sorry, but do you not remember how much ranting BTS lead to? The keeping in the dark strategy is working much better than that system did. There would be ranting for EVERY update, no matter how good it was due to people making the wildest assumptions on the smallest things , e.g the robin hood hat fiasco.

 

I do think that small hints, such as their twitter hints are good, but giving definite details on any update will bring nothing but pain for them.

 

Jagex do tell us when an update has hit a wall and is not coming. The posts are even commonly posted here in various thread, you just need to look for them.

[RSBDavid]

It impedes them a lot.

You have yet to explain how. If you actually think that a software company has everyone sitting around on their hands from the time they announce an update until when it happens, well, you're wrong. And if you think Jagex only knows 10 minutes before an update goes live that it's going to go live, well, again, you're wrong.

 

If they run into technical difficulties in that time, you know the community in Runescape. They will be hung drawn and quartered for saying they planned an update for x time, even if it was something minor.

The community is the way it is in large part because of the very "keep them in the dark" policies that you are defending!

 

Most RS players start every week expecting an update by 4 pm GMT on Monday. When that doesn't happen, they expect an update by 4 pm GMT on Tuesday and so on. Why? Because updates often occur on Monday or Tuesday, and Jagex never tells us what the hell is going on. The expectation is there already -- what is NOT there is any useful information.

 

Most of the time they know which day of the week is going to be the update day. So tell us! And if it slips, it slips. Guess what? They're doing this already anyway. Except the only time we hear from them is when things go wrong. Tell us in advance, warn that dates aren't set in concrete, and if people whine, IGNORE THEM. That is the proper way to do things.

 

They are at least getting better about telling us when updates are delayed. They are unfortunately missing out on the positive potential here that they could reap by telling us when the updates are scheduled.

 

The idea that all of the reasonable customers should be kept in the dark because a few unreasonable sots will complain if a deadline slips is too preposterous to seriously consider.

 

 

Sorry, but do you not remember how much ranting BTS lead to? The keeping in the dark strategy is working much better than that system did. There would be ranting for EVERY update, no matter how good it was due to people making the wildest assumptions on the smallest things , e.g the robin hood hat fiasco.

 

I do think that small hints, such as their twitter hints are good, but giving definite details on any update will bring nothing but pain for them.

 

Jagex do tell us when an update has hit a wall and is not coming. The posts are even commonly posted here in various thread, you just need to look for them.

 

 

I did not mention anything about a preview of updates like BTS. I just stated that they should do once a month updates. Players can then expect an update always on that day so they can't blame Jagex for crashing their party.

[Hameigh]

It impedes them a lot.

You have yet to explain how. If you actually think that a software company has everyone sitting around on their hands from the time they announce an update until when it happens, well, you're wrong. And if you think Jagex only knows 10 minutes before an update goes live that it's going to go live, well, again, you're wrong.

 

If they run into technical difficulties in that time, you know the community in Runescape. They will be hung drawn and quartered for saying they planned an update for x time, even if it was something minor.

The community is the way it is in large part because of the very "keep them in the dark" policies that you are defending!

 

Most RS players start every week expecting an update by 4 pm GMT on Monday. When that doesn't happen, they expect an update by 4 pm GMT on Tuesday and so on. Why? Because updates often occur on Monday or Tuesday, and Jagex never tells us what the hell is going on. The expectation is there already -- what is NOT there is any useful information.

 

Most of the time they know which day of the week is going to be the update day. So tell us! And if it slips, it slips. Guess what? They're doing this already anyway. Except the only time we hear from them is when things go wrong. Tell us in advance, warn that dates aren't set in concrete, and if people whine, IGNORE THEM. That is the proper way to do things.

 

They are at least getting better about telling us when updates are delayed. They are unfortunately missing out on the positive potential here that they could reap by telling us when the updates are scheduled.

 

The idea that all of the reasonable customers should be kept in the dark because a few unreasonable sots will complain if a deadline slips is too preposterous to seriously consider.

 

 

Sorry, but do you not remember how much ranting BTS lead to? The keeping in the dark strategy is working much better than that system did. There would be ranting for EVERY update, no matter how good it was due to people making the wildest assumptions on the smallest things , e.g the robin hood hat fiasco.

 

I do think that small hints, such as their twitter hints are good, but giving definite details on any update will bring nothing but pain for them.

 

Jagex do tell us when an update has hit a wall and is not coming. The posts are even commonly posted here in various thread, you just need to look for them.

This has nothing to do with BTS! That told details of an update, we are simply talking about either extending the system update warning to 30 minutes or telling us the expected day. Much more ranting is about actual content rather than just time of release. You only need to worry about them running into a technical difficulty during that time as much as you do now. They press the button only when completely done and that should stay the same. They won't say, "I think we should be done bug hunting in 20min, lets start the timer now."

 

Personally I would rather wait a day and know the update will be tomorrow then be anxious waiting. If we knew there would be no update on a day unless that told us the day before it would make this whole problem so much less. For example they completely finish the update at 2pm Monday, they then post saying that the update will be Tuesday rather than releasing it then.

[Danqazmlp]

I personally wouldn't like monthly updates. The problem with Runescape is that updates can usually be finished rather quickly. with weekly updates, usually you will do it and get back to what you were doing for another week before doing the next update. With monthly updates, you would probably complete all the updates in a week maybe add an extra half, then spend 3-2.5 weeks without having anything new to do. Weekly and bi-weekly updates keep the game feeling much more fresh than having larger lumps of updates. (in my opinion)

[qeltar]

I don't care about people ranting. They are going to rant regardless.

 

Jagex has always said that they respond to people who are reasonable, not ranters. The idea that they should deliberately make life miserable for all of their reasonable customers because doing so might spawn a few rants is nothing short of idiotic.

 

This is not the same as BTS. We are talking about giving ONE HOUR of notice. There is no logical or rational justification for this being undoable, at least that anyone has presented so far.

[Danqazmlp]

I brought up the BTS as an example of what happens when the Runescape community gets told of anything that is going to happen.

 

The fact this has not been brought up until now does not make me think that they are making life miserable for all their customers, just a select few who would be doing the largest dungeons in the largest group. As has been said, people have always had their actions interrupted by update timers, it is nothing new and i do not see this minority being enough to warrant a change.

[qeltar]

The fact this has not been brought up until now does not make me think that they are making life miserable for all their customers, just a select few who would be doing the largest dungeons in the largest group. As has been said, people have always had their actions interrupted by update timers, it is nothing new and i do not see this minority being enough to warrant a change.

Jagex is the one that decided to make a big new skill that pretty much demands teamwork and the need to block off an hour of time. So they damned well SHOULD do something to give players a chance at not wasting their time when an update is coming out.

 

It doesn't matter what the damned percentage is. It's a ridiculous situation that is entirely within Jagex's power to resolve, so they bloody well should resolve it.

 

You have yet to present even ONE rational justification for why Jagex couldn't simply give 60 minutes' notice instead of 10. Your entire position boils down to saying that because Jagex doing something stupid only affects some people and not everyone, they should keep doing it, even though it is stupid. This is exactly why nothing ever improves -- no matter what the problem is that needs solving, and no matter how simple the solution, a bunch of people always come out of the woodwork to oppose it just for the sake of opposing it. I feel like if we were all standing outside, and it started to rain, and I suggested that the guy standing there with the big umbrella might maybe want to open it, I'd get responses back like "why should he bother, it's not like it's raining that hard" or "well, we've gotten wet before, so let's just stand here and get drenched" or "well he has the umbrella, so he must be pretty smart and he obviously knows why the umbrella should stay closed".

[Omali]

Jagex needs to seriously upgrade their method of bug hunting if they are consistently finding huge bugs literally in the last hour before the update is released, after all these years.

 

Most MMOs have their patches/updates gone gold, release ready, about a week before implementation, and they use that time to hunt out any remaining bugs. Jagex is one of the few developers that literally cannot point down a day to when an update will be out, including the day of.

[BeNiceOk]

Jagex needs to seriously upgrade their method of bug hunting if they are consistently finding huge bugs literally in the last hour before the update is released, after all these years.

 

Most MMOs have their patches/updates gone gold, release ready, about a week before implementation, and they use that time to hunt out any remaining bugs. Jagex is one of the few developers that literally cannot point down a day to when an update will be out, including the day of.

 

This is true in a way, but not as great as you think. What other MMO's do when they have dates like that is put the date at a time they know content will be finished. So instead of having FT:III as soon as its done, they put a date they know it will be finished. So they would say FT:III will be released on May 25th. It would come out that date, because its content will certainly be done by then, but we have to wait 12 more days for them to do that with a set date despite the fact it's already done.

 

So the question is would you rather have a set date you know content will come out, but have to wait longer for it. Or would you rather have content come out once its complete, with a variable date and just a general week.

 

If they just assign a date (like the 25th) and then release it before the intended date, then there is no difference between that and what we have now other than a false day for someday in the future.

[D. V. Devnull]

@ Ampharaos --- FT3 is already out... check the news. :P

 

 

<<<Quote Snip>>>

 

People would still rant saying "omg Jagex I was 1 attack away from ko'ing a guy". I think the best option would be for Jagex to implement the update/s when you next login. That way people can log out when they're ready for the update :) Also if there was a massive glitch that eventually weaved its way in, only then would Jagex intervene and force-kick everyone to get the game updated. It could work like that.

 

Problem solved :) now let's try something bigger like world hunger

I'd second this. :thumbsup:

 

Yeah, it would mean that the older software would be running on the server alongside the new stuff just a hair longer, and that new minigame/dungeon rounds would have to have a special stopper on them similar to what FunOrb's stuff already has for system updates, but it would definitely have the least negative impact on the players. That, and if Jagex had to pull a new update back, they could just a little more easily. Would only affect those who already loaded the newer stuff, which should only be a small percentage. Yes, would mean just a little extra handling for "pulled updates", but would ultimately benefit Jagex. :geek:

 

Off-topic: Now if only Andrew Gower would spot the RS post-exit File I/O errors... I tried making a thread in Tech Support on the RSOF about that, but ran into the idiot known as "Mod Chris E" (whose name is also on the DirectX Graphics Update, so beware it) ... Thread doesn't exist anymore, no thanks to them... So damned far beyond severely angry about this... <_<

 

~Mr. D. V. "Jagex definitely has something to work on here..." Devnull

[rickyson1]

@ Ampharaos --- FT3 is already out... check the news. :P

 

its called an example

 

note the "12 days number" and the 25th of may used as a date

 

 

hmm i wonder..whats 12 days before may 25th?

[Youmu]

A system update has just occurred for me while in a middle of a 5-man... and we didn't even reach the boss lol. >_<

 

I agree, the warning needs to be extended to 30 minutes or even 1 hour.