Chaotic is better than Divine/Elysian

[Lep]

Your logic: It reduces damage by 30%

General logic: COMPLETELY blocking a hit is better

Does a Dragonfire Shield block more damage than a Dragon Square Shield? Yes. Same thing goes here as it's almost the same difference between Chaotic and Divine/Elysian. Chaotic is like a spirit shield on steroids with a pint of their added effect.

 

In depth Comparison

 

30% damage removed and 15% prayer removed. As soon as your prayer runs out, the shield has less defense than a Dragonfire Shield. Meaning you'll need to waste at LEAST 1 inventory space to restore prayer. The shields prayer bonus is almost meaningless since your prayer drains from the effect anyway. Dvine shield has -20 Stab, -25 Slash, -11 Crush and -32 Range Defense than the Chaotic Shield. That's a HUGE differentce. The Chaotic Shield also has +2 Stab and +4 Crush attack whereas Divine shield has a prayer boost that is useless. The Chaotic Shield is also better because whereas the Divine shield reduces every hit, the Chaotic Shield reduces any hit above 200, assuming they even hit at all from the big difference in defense. If the Divine shield reduces a measily 160 hit, it will still drain your prayer. You're most likely going to be using prayer while fighting, so you kind of need all the prayer you can get. Rather block it and drain nothing, wouldn't you? On top of that, any hit above 200 for the Chaotic Shield ALSO reduces damage! It may only be 10% Melee and 20% Range damage, but at least it doesn't drain anything.

 

AS for Elysian a 70% chance to reduce damage by 25% isn't so great. It's not even guarenteed to reduce damage. The Chaotic Shield IS guarenteed if the hit is above 200, 20% reduce is pretty damn close to 25% too... Oh yeah, the defense on Chaotic is the same amount above Divine as well which means you're going to receive 0 damage a lot less.

 

With how high the hits are becomming nowadays, the Chaotic Shield is just going to get better. Against low levels it doesn't matter because you'll just block their hits anyway. The Chaotic Shield is the best shield in the game now. The only time a Divine will be better is when you're not really going to be blocking a hit, such as Bandos, TzTokJad, Corp, etc. Or if you're going against Magic.

 

 

Discuss.

[ghjkl]

Chaotic also costs over 200k an hour and 50 hours of dunging. All in all, your logic is flawed because ely will prevent more damage than chaotic and it has been proven that div is better than ely.

[Lep]

Chaotic also costs over 200k an hour and 50 hours of dunging. All in all, your logic is flawed because ely will prevent more damage than chaotic and it has been proven that div is better than ely.

 

Your logic is flawed because anyone who's anyone can make much more than 200k an hour. Does a Dragonfire Shield block damage more than a Dragon Square Shield? Yes. Same thing goes here as it's almost the same difference between Chaotic and Divine/Elysian.

[LatinII]

Chaotic also costs over 200k an hour and 50 hours of dunging. All in all, your logic is flawed because ely will prevent more damage than chaotic and it has been proven that div is better than ely.

 

200k an hour? I thought chaotic shields and weapons lasted longer than 10 hours of combat?

[stonewall337]

Actually, just BECAUSE you can make a large amount of GP doesn't eliminate the cost. Ye, it may be minor, but it is still a factor.

 

And obviously you don't do much DKS. Spins really do hit quite a bit, even against ely.

[Lep]

Actually, just BECAUSE you can make a large amount of GP doesn't eliminate the cost. Ye, it may be minor, but it is still a factor.

 

And obviously you don't do much DKS. Spins really do hit quite a bit, even against ely.

 

Yeah I've done DKS. That sort of goes into the etcetera as it's a boss area which is where Divine/Elysian would be better. Chaotic is also negative magic defense and attack which is also when Divine/Elysian are better. You use magic attacks a lot at DKS so it's sort of neccessary.

[Beloved]

So if im getting this right, you're claiming that chaotic kite is better than ely/divine. But only in PvP.

[Lep]

So if im getting this right, you're claiming that chaotic kite is better than ely/divine. But only in PvP.

 

No. It's better at certain other bosses and monsters as well. Such as Tormented Demons, almost all general monsters, minigames, etc. The Dagonnoth Kings comparison is because you need magic to kill rex, Spinols attack with magic as well and if you're tri-bryding, you need better than just a melee and range reduce.

[bedman]

Your claim that i's useless to prevent for instance a 160 hit is flawed IMO. I think you'de be surprised how much the small hit add up. Look at GWD, often you are blocking the bosses main attack, causing the smaller attacks to be the biggest concern.

[Grimy_Bunyip]

Chaotic also costs over 200k an hour and 50 hours of dunging. All in all, your logic is flawed because ely will prevent more damage than chaotic and it has been proven that div is better than ely.

 

200k an hour? I thought chaotic shields and weapons lasted longer than 10 hours of combat?

weapons last 20+ hours

dunno bout shields

[Lep]

You're right, it isn't useless to prevent smaller hits, but isn't that exactly what a Chaotic Shield will do with +20 Stab, +25 Slash, +11 Crush and +32 Range Defense? :razz:

[Mazhar]

The shield is nowhere close to divine first of all, but is a pretty big step up from dfs, but still not up to ely's level.

Lets try to apply this to a boss

Bandos. You pray melee so you can just ignore the melee stats on that thing. That leaves us with +89 range def -5 mage def

Assuming you have the ideal bandos armour in chaotic, you would have +327 range def, +82 mage

Assuming you had the ideal armour for ely, you would have +295 range def, +89 mage def

so you are gaining 9% range def and gaining 8% mage def

You are giving up 7 mage def for 32 range def.. so it is in favor of chaotic stat wise compared to ely but not too much better

Now lets go talk about special abilities, ely blockes 25% 70% of the time for 17.5% of range damage and mage damage.

Assuming graar hits above 20 50% of the time it hits, which I would say is a fair say, you will block 10% of all range damage and 0% of all mage damage, and 0% of the range minis damage

lets assume the range mini hits 9% more on ely than chaotic. So assuming it would do 100 damage on chaotic compared to 109 on ely no specials considered, with reduction the range mini would do 89 worth on ely

for the mage mini, you block 8% more so 100 damage on chaotic would be 92 on ely, and w/ the special it would do 81 averaged out

Now for graar, lets say graar does 300 damage normally, chaotic would take 270, now assuming ely takes 8% more from lack of range def it would be 324 before reduction, and 283 with reduction

thats 5% more the chaotic blocks from graar, 11% more ely blocks from range mini, 19% more ely blocks from mage mini

And considering you have 3x more range def than mage def and the mage mini hits 50% of what graar does, you would be able to assume that mage mini doesn't hit too much higher than graar, and the range mini which will hit half of what graar does. All and all the minis hit very close to graar and you block a lot more w/ ely:chaotic on minis compared to graar

 

However, if you're talking about something completely different such as pvp, chaotic would win over ely just for the anti-ko feature it offers. Also for divine, the only places you need a shield require you to have ppots anyway.

[Dragonlordjl]

Chaotic only blocks 10% melee damage and 20% ranged damage, without having any effect on magic damage. Therefore, Ely/Divine are better.

[ghjkl]

Imo these shields are useless anyway. Weapons speed up kills, but shields only make you last longer. These days you can camp any boss besides corp, and you cnat use a shield at corp anyway.

[bedman]

You're right, it isn't useless to prevent smaller hits, but isn't that exactly what a Chaotic Shield will do with +20 Stab, +25 Slash, +11 Crush and +32 Range Defense? :razz:

Wtf, I would have expected you to at least know the difference between accuracy and strength. Just cause a hit hits 160 doesn't mean it's suddenly blocked by a higher defence shield. The fact that it does hit, means it's not blocked. I guess you are trying to tell me attacks with lower hits have less accuracy, but that is not necessarily true + a low hit can still be a hit from the boss that has a high max, and it would still be very accurate.

[Lep]

You're right, it isn't useless to prevent smaller hits, but isn't that exactly what a Chaotic Shield will do with +20 Stab, +25 Slash, +11 Crush and +32 Range Defense? :razz:

Wtf, I would have expected you to at least know the difference between accuracy and strength. Just cause a hit hits 160 doesn't mean it's suddenly blocked by a higher defence shield. The fact that it does hit, means it's not blocked. I guess you are trying to tell me attacks with lower hits have less accuracy, but that is not necessarily true + a low hit can still be a hit from the boss that has a high max, and it would still be very accurate.

 

I do know the difference. What I'm trying to get at is that those 160 hits will logically happen less with Chaotic. Unless they have amazingly high accuracy in which I mentioned the other shields are better.

 

rahzaM

 

I mentioned Chaotic being worse in situations such as Bandos. If you have like a billion gp to buy a Divine/Elysian solely for GWD, then go for it.

 

Chaotic only blocks 10% melee damage and 20% ranged damage, without having any effect on magic damage. Therefore, Ely/Divine are better.

 

Do you often fight magic users without praying mage? Rarely. You're also ignoring the fact that Chaotic Shield has a better chance to block 100% damage because it's stats are over +20 better.

[Dragonlordjl]

But how often do you fight rangers, either? The vast majority of monsters and players fight with melee. This shield only blocks 10% of melee damage. That means if someone "rolls" a 600 hit, you'll still take 540 damage. :mellow:

[Lep]

But how often do you fight rangers, either? The vast majority of monsters and players fight with melee. This shield only blocks 10% of melee damage. That means if someone "rolls" a 600 hit, you'll still take 540 damage. :mellow:

 

That's true. But with a Divine you'd lose 9 prayer points and receive 420 damage if I calculated it correctly. That's a 120 damage difference between Chaotic. However, I'd still rather have the Chaotic for the chance to block the next hit. Unless you got k0ed. :oops: I'm assuming you're referring to PVP since you don't really take 600 damage in very many other cases.

 

Personally I rather like having a better chance not to get hit. Even if Divine reduces more, I would still prefer a better chance not to be hit. The Dragonfire shield already had better stats, but barely. Chaotic has much better with a slight effect.

[bedman]

The prayer useage really isn't an issue. It's cheaper to "heal" this way, than to eat sharks for instance. For boss trips, the extra inventory spots are totally worth it too, because you will need less brew/whatever

[PereGrin]

Why don't you just try it out. Spending time arguing about math is pointless, you can make your statistics say anything you want them to and still be true. Just do 10 solo bandos trips with ely+whip and 10 bandos solo trips with chaotic kite + whip. Add up the total KC for the ely+whip and the Kite+whip. Unless im very much mistaken, someone on these forums already did, and he came to the conclusion that elysian and chaotic kite are about the same at bandos, and both are far behind divine.

[Mazhar]

rahzaM

 

I mentioned Chaotic being worse in situations such as Bandos. If you have like a billion gp to buy a Divine/Elysian solely for GWD, then go for it.

 

What other situation would chaotic be better than ely? bandos you agreed to, zammy needs mage def so thats out, sara barely hits above 200 so its useless there, and its completely useless at arma

Barrows brothers don't hit above 200, and if they do it is just barely over it and rare to get hit for, and you wouldn't no pary dharok melee'ing if you wanted to do it efficently

Slayer monsters dont hit over 200.. so yeah.. anything except pvp = useless for chaotic, and divine clearly wins there over it

[metoo1000]

First off none of the chaotic shields can even touch ely or divine for the simple fact its only cuts 20% off ONE style and 10% of another.

 

Second the attack must hit over 200 or the effect wont even work.

 

 

Third it is lower percentage of soak then either ely or divine.

 

Fourth it has a recharge cost which really is hard to argue this b/c of the cost of ely/divine.

 

Also

 

-Remember the higher def bonuses only mean you don't get hit as often not that the amount of damage is lessened.( you can still get hit 35 with no shield on and same with chaotic you can still get hit that 30 but with ely and divine the DAMAGE it self is always or 70% of the time lowered, no matter if the damage is 200 or more.

 

-You need high-ish lvl in dung to be able to use it.

 

-They don't look as nice(not a huge deal but something to take in since we do live in a material world).

 

 

The biggest thing here tho that i want poeple to remember is that the chaotic shields only work under to main situations that make they inhairently worse then ely and divine.

 

~1. They will only soak damage if that damage was going to hit a 200+

 

~2. After the requirements are met for the first part of the code, it will only happen 20% of the time for one fo the 3 combat styles(melee range or mage).

 

So basically it would have 2 wheels or dice throws first is the incoming damage going to hit you for a 200+ in magic, range or melee if so then 20% chance that the damage will be reduced.

 

So all in all these shields can not hold a candle to ely or divine for that fact is they can't soak damage from all 3 combat styles and the chance is lower that if the incoming damage is over 200 that the effect will even kick in.

 

now lets take a look at where ely and divine are mostly used.

 

Solo Bandos/ Team

 

~ you pray melee while the boss is alive no need for a melee soak range from the boss and mage mino tends to hit the worst.

 

Solo Arma/ Team

 

~ you pray range while the boss is alive so no need for range soak mage def is highly recommended here also.

 

Tanking kril(not as common but helps melee and mage soak is nice here)

 

~Praying melee the whole time kril is alive.

 

~Saradomin you don't use shields so its not helpful here at all.

 

Daga kings lets just say i hope you dont need anytype of soaking damage here but if you do having a shield that can soak all 3 styles of combat is much appreciated.

 

KQ well you can use a shield here if you have it for slayer but most people use veracs same with saradomin gdw.

 

KBD well if you really need extra help here then lol.

 

Chaos ely see above.

 

all in all the chaotic shields are nice but really cant stand up to the versatility of ely/divine spirit shields they are a nice step up from dragon fire shield but are not even close to the spirit shield family even Spectral at solo arma would be better.

 

Don't get me wrong if you can't afford a ely/divine by all means get a choatic/eagle eye/farseer shield depending on what you plan on doing but keep in mind the cost for repairs this is not something you should slay with or waste on things that are not profitable.

 

I would not recommend using ely/divine for slayer either but that is my opinion I prefer rune defender.

 

Divine and ely will have its place for quite some time due to the fact they have such a wide range of use. These new shields are a nice addition to the shield slot but are not the ends all that some people might think.

 

That is my two cents.

[Zepheras]

rahzaM

 

I mentioned Chaotic being worse in situations such as Bandos. If you have like a billion gp to buy a Divine/Elysian solely for GWD, then go for it.

 

What other situation would chaotic be better than ely? bandos you agreed to, zammy needs mage def so thats out, sara barely hits above 200 so its useless there, and its completely useless at arma

Barrows brothers don't hit above 200, and if they do it is just barely over it and rare to get hit for, and you wouldn't no pary dharok melee'ing if you wanted to do it efficently

Slayer monsters dont hit over 200.. so yeah.. anything except pvp = useless for chaotic, and divine clearly wins there over it

 

 

Sums up what I was thinking. You need a divine for boss hunting. For everything else, there's bandos chestplate + tasset.

[wioneo]

TDs max at/under 30. Assuming a "hit" has an even distribution of damage, ~67% of the damage is completely ignored. That is assuming that you're using a shield at all which would be stupid without one of the chaotic weapons(or possibly with, havent tried them).

 

You seem to be saying that these shields are better, except at bosses. When else do you use a shield? I don't do PvP, so I wouldn't know about that, but they are very few non boss situations where a shield would be more useful than a defender, dragons/wyverns aside.

 

Elysian effectively has a 17.5% chance to block ALL damage, divine has a chance to block 30% of ALL damage. The chaoic shields have at best a chance to block 20% of damage over 200 of a specific type. So for arma soloing, then farseer(10% mage 20% melee -15 range +5 mage def) or eagle eye(10% range 20% mage +4 range +25 mage def) would be best.

 

Divine is superior in every aspect, so including that in comparison is useless.

 

With either new shield, the MOST damaging attack, kree's very accurate magic which maxes at 20 is completely unaffected.

So point for elysian(+17.5%)

 

The next most damaging attack would be kilisa's melee, maxes at 25 I believe.

Elysian will block 17.5%, eagle is useless, farseer will block 20% of 200-250 hits, which (assuming even spread) is 4%.

Point elysian (+13.5%)

 

That leaves wingman's magic, again max of 25

Elysian, still 17.5%, eagle 20% of 200-250 so 4%, and farseer 20% of 200+, 2%

So elysian will either have an edge of 13.5% or 15.5%.

 

The new shields have either 3(farseer) or 22(eagle) more magic defense.

Elysian has 15/10 more slash defense(I assume this is kilisa style) than the new shields.

 

So unless the 3-22 magic defense increase is more than the loss of 17.5% on the most damaging attack, 17.5 or 13.5% on the second most damaging, 13.5 or 15.5% on the "weakest", and the lowered melee defense(unless kilisa crushes with those claws, which is possible I suppose), then elysian is better for armadyl soloing.

 

Again, divine is vastly superior, and not worth taking the time to compare.

[metoo1000]

TDs max at/under 30. Assuming a "hit" has an even distribution of damage, ~67% of the damage is completely ignored. That is assuming that you're using a shield at all which would be stupid without one of the chaotic weapons(or possibly with, havent tried them).

 

You seem to be saying that these shields are better, except at bosses. When else do you use a shield? I don't do PvP, so I wouldn't know about that, but they are very few non boss situations where a shield would be more useful than a defender, dragons/wyverns aside.

 

Elysian effectively has a 17.5% chance to block ALL damage, divine has a chance to block 30% of ALL damage. The chaoic shields have at best a chance to block 20% of damage over 200 of a specific type. So for arma soloing, then farseer(10% mage 20% melee -15 range +5 mage def) or eagle eye(10% range 20% mage +4 range +25 mage def) would be best.

 

Divine is superior in every aspect, so including that in comparison is useless.

 

With either new shield, the MOST damaging attack, kree's very accurate magic which maxes at 20 is completely unaffected.

So point for elysian(+17.5%)

 

The next most damaging attack would be kilisa's melee, maxes at 25 I believe.

Elysian will block 17.5%, eagle is useless, farseer will block 20% of 200-250 hits, which (assuming even spread) is 4%.

Point elysian (+13.5%)

 

That leaves wingman's magic, again max of 25

Elysian, still 17.5%, eagle 20% of 200-250 so 4%, and farseer 20% of 200+, 2%

So elysian will either have an edge of 13.5% or 15.5%.

 

The new shields have either 3(farseer) or 22(eagle) more magic defense.

Elysian has 15/10 more slash defense(I assume this is kilisa style) than the new shields.

 

So unless the 3-22 magic defense increase is more than the loss of 17.5% on the most damaging attack, 17.5 or 13.5% on the second most damaging, 13.5 or 15.5% on the "weakest", and the lowered melee defense(unless kilisa crushes with those claws, which is possible I suppose), then elysian is better for armadyl soloing.

 

Again, divine is vastly superior, and not worth taking the time to compare.

 

Agreed Divine is in a class of its own and ely is still better since the incoming dagame dose not need to be over 200 for the soak to kick in and ely also works with melee/range/mage not just one of the 3