Chaotic is better than Divine/Elysian

[PereGrin]

First off none of the chaotic shields can even touch ely or divine for the simple fact its only cuts 20% off ONE style and 10% of another.

 

Second the attack must hit over 200 or the effect wont even work.

 

Third it is lower percentage of soak then either ely or divine.

 

Fourth it has a recharge cost which really is hard to argue this b/c of the cost of ely/divine.

 

Also

 

-Remember the higher def bonuses only mean you don't get hit as often not that the amount of damage is lessened.( you can still get hit 35 with no shield on and same with chaotic u can still get hit that 30 but with ely and divine the DAMAGE it self is always or 70% of the time lowered, no matter if the damage is 200 or more.

 

-You need high-ish lvl in dung to be able to use it.

 

-They don't look as nice(not a huge deal but something to take in since we do live in a material world).

 

 

The biggest thing here tho that i want poeple to remember is that the chaotic shields only work under to main situations that make they inhairently worse then ely and divine.

 

~1. They will only soak damage if that damage was going to hit a 200+

 

~2. After the requirements are met for the first part of the code, it will only happen 20% of the time for one fo the 3 combat styles(melee range or mage).

 

So basically it would have 2 wheels or dice throws first is the incoming damage going to hit you for a 200+ in magic, range or melee if so then 20% chance that the damage will be reduced.

 

So all in all these shields can not hold a candle to ely or divine for that fact is they can't soak damage from all 3 combat styles and the chance is lower that if the incoming damage is over 200 that the effect will even kick in.

 

now lets take a look at where ely and divine are mostly used.

 

Solo Bandos/ Team

 

~ you pray melee while the boss is alive no need for a melee soak range from the boss and mage mino tends to hit the worst.

 

Solo Arma/ Team

 

~ you pray range while the boss is alive so no need for range soak mage def is highly recommended here also.

 

Tanking kril(not as common but helps melee and mage soak is nice here)

 

~Praying melee the whole time kril is alive.

 

~Saradomin you don't use shields so its not helpful here at all.

 

Daga kings lets just say i hope you dont need anytype of soaking damage here but if you do having a shield that can soak all 3 styles of combat is much appreciated.

 

KQ well you can use a shield here if you have it for slayer but most people use veracs same with saradomin gdw.

 

KBD well if you really need extra help here then lol.

 

Chaos ely see above.

 

all in all the chaotic shields are nice but really cant stand up to the versatility of ely/divine spirit shields they are a nice step up from dragon fire shield but are not even close to the spirit shield family even Spectral at solo arma would be better.

 

Don't get me wrong if you can afford a ely/divine by all means get a choatic/egal eye/farseer shield depending on what you plan on doing but keep in mind the cost for repairs this is not something you should slay with or waste on things that are not profitable.

 

I would not recommend using ely/divine for slayer either but that is my opinion I prefer rune defender.

 

Divine and ely will have its place for quite some time due to the fact they have such a wide range of use. These new shields are a nice addition to the shield slot but are not the ends all that some people might think.

 

That is my two cents.

C Kite removes 20% of range damage 100% of the time. Turns a 200 into a 160 every time until it runs out.

 

The Ely blocks 25% of the damage 70% of the time. This evens out to blocking 17.5% of all damage.

 

If you are fighting something that does not hit above 200 lp, then why are you even considering using a shield. Rune defender is much much better.

[metoo1000]

First off none of the chaotic shields can even touch ely or divine for the simple fact its only cuts 20% off ONE style and 10% of another.

 

Second the attack must hit over 200 or the effect wont even work.

 

Third it is lower percentage of soak then either ely or divine.

 

Fourth it has a recharge cost which really is hard to argue this b/c of the cost of ely/divine.

 

Also

 

-Remember the higher def bonuses only mean you don't get hit as often not that the amount of damage is lessened.( you can still get hit 35 with no shield on and same with chaotic u can still get hit that 30 but with ely and divine the DAMAGE it self is always or 70% of the time lowered, no matter if the damage is 200 or more.

 

-You need high-ish lvl in dung to be able to use it.

 

-They don't look as nice(not a huge deal but something to take in since we do live in a material world).

 

 

The biggest thing here tho that i want poeple to remember is that the chaotic shields only work under to main situations that make they inhairently worse then ely and divine.

 

~1. They will only soak damage if that damage was going to hit a 200+

 

~2. After the requirements are met for the first part of the code, it will only happen 20% of the time for one fo the 3 combat styles(melee range or mage).

 

So basically it would have 2 wheels or dice throws first is the incoming damage going to hit you for a 200+ in magic, range or melee if so then 20% chance that the damage will be reduced.

 

So all in all these shields can not hold a candle to ely or divine for that fact is they can't soak damage from all 3 combat styles and the chance is lower that if the incoming damage is over 200 that the effect will even kick in.

 

now lets take a look at where ely and divine are mostly used.

 

Solo Bandos/ Team

 

~ you pray melee while the boss is alive no need for a melee soak range from the boss and mage mino tends to hit the worst.

 

Solo Arma/ Team

 

~ you pray range while the boss is alive so no need for range soak mage def is highly recommended here also.

 

Tanking kril(not as common but helps melee and mage soak is nice here)

 

~Praying melee the whole time kril is alive.

 

~Saradomin you don't use shields so its not helpful here at all.

 

Daga kings lets just say i hope you dont need anytype of soaking damage here but if you do having a shield that can soak all 3 styles of combat is much appreciated.

 

KQ well you can use a shield here if you have it for slayer but most people use veracs same with saradomin gdw.

 

KBD well if you really need extra help here then lol.

 

Chaos ely see above.

 

all in all the chaotic shields are nice but really cant stand up to the versatility of ely/divine spirit shields they are a nice step up from dragon fire shield but are not even close to the spirit shield family even Spectral at solo arma would be better.

 

Don't get me wrong if you can afford a ely/divine by all means get a choatic/egal eye/farseer shield depending on what you plan on doing but keep in mind the cost for repairs this is not something you should slay with or waste on things that are not profitable.

 

I would not recommend using ely/divine for slayer either but that is my opinion I prefer rune defender.

 

Divine and ely will have its place for quite some time due to the fact they have such a wide range of use. These new shields are a nice addition to the shield slot but are not the ends all that some people might think.

 

That is my two cents.

C Kite removes 20% of range damage 100% of the time. Turns a 200 into a 160 every time until it runs out.

 

Only if the hit is 200+ and just like weapons it all depends on dps but with shields is dps that you take not give. and it is only 20% of the time so ely even tho its only 17.5% of the damage it works out that you will block more damage over time the chaotic.

 

The Ely blocks 25% of the damage 70% of the time. This evens out to blocking 17.5% of all damage.

 

If you are fighting something that does not hit above 200 lp, then why are you even considering using a shield. Rune defender is much much better.

I already said this.

 

Also did you even take in to consideration that the melee and mage mino also hit over 200 so the dps you take is also less with ely b/c ely works with all 3 types of attacks?

[Bladewing]

If you actually think that an increase from 250 defence to 275 defence is going to prevent an additional 30% of damage, then you are horribly wrong.

[Bloodstain]

Chaotic also costs over 200k an hour and 50 hours of dunging. All in all, your logic is flawed because ely will prevent more damage than chaotic and it has been proven that div is better than ely.

 

Divine and ely cost 100s of millions, you'll NEVER reach that amount spent using a chaotic and recharging

[ghjkl]

Chaotic also costs over 200k an hour and 50 hours of dunging. All in all, your logic is flawed because ely will prevent more damage than chaotic and it has been proven that div is better than ely.

 

Divine and ely cost 100s of millions, you'll NEVER reach that amount spent using a chaotic and recharging

 

But you can sell back ely/div.

[Godfather_91]

You forgot this:

 

The three reward shields of Daemonheim 'soak' up damage from any attack that

would have hit for 200 life points or more.

 

Which means that if it is under 200 hp, then it doesnt do any [cabbage]. At lots of bosses they dont hit 200+ but constant 100s etc. Just look at Armadyl, elysian and divine are both better than the new shields.

[12pure34]

Certain bosses..

 

to actually 'compare' these, you need a hitrate and hittable from the bosses. For any monster that doesn't frequently hit +200 LP (20HP), the shield is worthless. Tormented demons switch attack styles and the effect of chaotic is specific. 20% for 1 style, 10% for another. 3th is complete ignored..

 

Each shield must have it's use but in the end Divine/ Elysian are widely usable. Other then that ;) just factor in the fact that more people will have 80 dungeoneering after a while, then enough money to buy a Divine / Elysian.

 

It is hard to compare them but in the end it all comes down to which shield you can even use! (at least, for the .. 95% of the slower players like myself)

[Lep]

If you actually think that an increase from 250 defence to 275 defence is going to prevent an additional 30% of damage, then you are horribly wrong.

 

That doesn't even make any sense. It will help block 100% of damage if you don't get hit. And if you DON'T think that will help prevent damage, then you're horribly wrong. Every bit helps. And that's a large little bit.

[Raider4Life]

Divine > Elysian > DFS > Dragon Sq > Rune Kiteshield > Chaotic/Eagle Eye/Farseer Kiteshield

 

Simply put that is how they rank from best to worst.

 

Both Divine and Elysian can be used to get rid of junk and trade for rares.

 

Divine is obviously the best because it reduces your max cash stack by the most which leaves room for your daily merch profits to continue to add up for the longest before more shields need to be bought.

 

Guess how much Chaotic/Eagle Eye/Farseer Shields are worth, thats right NOTHING.

You spend godforsaken amounts of time away from the grand exchange (possibly not even in world 2) only to get a shield that has no cash value.

 

All in all Divine is the best for the obvious reasons, I am not sure who originally proposed the idea of the dungeoneering shields being better when they are clearly not.

 

 

 

Also on a side note, I have heard rumors that shields are also quite useful in combat, however I haven't confirmed it.

[Lep]

Divine > Elysian > DFS > Dragon Sq > Rune Kiteshield > Chaotic/Eagle Eye/Farseer Kiteshield

 

Simply put that is how they rank from best to worst.

 

Both Divine and Elysian can be used to get rid of junk and trade for rares.

 

Divine is obviously the best because it reduces your max cash stack by the most which leaves room for your daily merch profits to continue to add up for the longest before more shields need to be bought.

 

Guess how much Chaotic/Eagle Eye/Farseer Shields are worth, thats right NOTHING.

You spend godforsaken amounts of time away from the grand exchange (possibly not even in world 2) only to get a shield that has no cash value.

 

All in all Divine is the best for the obvious reasons, I am not sure who originally proposed the idea of the dungeoneering shields being better when they are clearly not.

 

 

 

Also on a side note, I have heard rumors that shields are also quite useful in combat, however I haven't confirmed it.

 

Guess that means all Chaotic weapons are worth nothing and are >all rune weapons as well cause they take too long to get lmao.

[Bladewing]

If you actually think that an increase from 250 defence to 275 defence is going to prevent an additional 30% of damage, then you are horribly wrong.

 

That doesn't even make any sense. It will help block 100% of damage if you don't get hit. And if you DON'T think that will help prevent damage, then you're horribly wrong. Every bit helps. And that's a large little bit.

Say I currently block 50% of all hits just with 250 defence, divine included. Divine then reduces the remaining 50% of damage by 30%. So I really block 65% of all damage.

 

Are you telling me that increasing 250 defence to 275 defence (10% increase) will increase the number of blocks I get from 50% to 65% (30% increase)? That's absurd, because it's been empirically shown that defence bonus has very little returns at high defence bonuses.

[Squisher_33]

you claim its better because it doenst reduce the "measly" hits below 200, horribly flawed because most things in runescape, including most bosses only have a max of about 300 when prepared properly

 

also an ely reduces 17.5%, chaotic reduces 10 or 20 of only the high hits, meaning ely > chaotic, well if you value a ppot at 2500 lp then divine > ely, meaning therefore divine > chaotic

 

also gives no slash, which is most common attack, nobody uses 1h crush weapons usualy, so basicly its +2 stab vs +3 prayer

 

all shields are useless imo, and most people who know me know that my opinons are based entirely on math

 

also like said above, if u pray range and kree maxs 200, gl using chaotic

[Lep]

If you actually think that an increase from 250 defence to 275 defence is going to prevent an additional 30% of damage, then you are horribly wrong.

 

That doesn't even make any sense. It will help block 100% of damage if you don't get hit. And if you DON'T think that will help prevent damage, then you're horribly wrong. Every bit helps. And that's a large little bit.

Say I currently block 50% of all hits just with 250 defence, divine included. Divine then reduces the remaining 50% of damage by 30%. So I really block 65% of all damage.

 

Are you telling me that increasing 250 defence to 275 defence (10% increase) will increase the number of blocks I get from 50% to 65% (30% increase)? That's absurd, because it's been empirically shown that defence bonus has very little returns at high defence bonuses.

 

There's a difference between blocking and reducing. That's a 30% reduce not block. Chaotic has better chance to BLOCK 100% damage and if the hit gets through it's still 10% or 20% reduce. And no it hasn't been empirically shown that defence bonus has very little returns at high defence bonuses, because looking at level 130 primal warriors in dungeoneering, high defense DOES help block 100% of ALL damage. Ever try meleeing one? Have fun with that...

[Bladewing]

Your replies sound to me like this:

 

"i don't want to talk to a mathematician, y'all mofos are lyin, and gettin me pissed"

 

I just showed you how 30% reduction > extra blocking.

[Lep]

Your replies sound to me like this:

 

"i don't want to talk to a mathematician, y'all mofos are lyin, and gettin me pissed"

 

I just showed you how 30% reduction > extra blocking.

 

Okay, then tell me. Where did you get blocking 50% hits from? From air I'm sure.

[Laura]

I think that the decision is quite simple for most users. You know, since those spirit shields are over half a billion in GE value alone.

[Grimy_Bunyip]

Chaotic also costs over 200k an hour and 50 hours of dunging. All in all, your logic is flawed because ely will prevent more damage than chaotic and it has been proven that div is better than ely.

 

Divine and ely cost 100s of millions, you'll NEVER reach that amount spent using a chaotic and recharging

 

But you can sell back ely/div.

considering the time it takes to buy/sell ely's and divines at street price, with all the junk hassle and so forth

it would probably less time to earn money/tokens to charge up a chaotic shield.

 

ANYWHOO lets look at the chaotic kiteshield and see how much damage it reduces from Graardor's ranged attack, since i'm presuming you'll be praying melee

Graardor maxes at 355 ranged max hit. We know damage is evenly distributed so this means only 155/355 of graardor's ranged attacks will be reduced 20%

 

20% * 155/355 = 8.73% damage reduction, only on ranged.

any max hit over 355 and you'd probably be considering using prayer.

the ranged helper is the only one that maxes over 200 damage, so the shield's effect is basically useless on the minis.

 

clearly ely and divines are better

but tbh, considering the amount of time it takes to buy an ely and divine, unless you already have one for whatever reason, it's probably not worth the hassle.

whereas i'd see alot of people with enough spare tokens for chaotic shields in a matter of months.

[Squisher_33]

the argument "divine uses prayer"

 

1 extreme prayer pot = 168 prayer points

 

thats 3360 hp from 1 inventory spave using divine, since if theoreticly a monster did 10k dmg on you, you would reduce 3k of it for 150 prayer points, which is less than 1 inv space with extreme, and mayhbe 5 doses with normal/super restores

 

also at most bosses you have to use a few super restores anyways cuz of brews (even with overload, cuz 1. if u brew alot at once get it back to max quicker for faster kills, and 2. mage restores about 4x slower so if u dont restore ur mage will get realy low and then mage based attacks own you so u gotta restore to keep mage high) so your restores cover the divine drain anyways

 

 

 

but in all fairness the argument above is wrong also, saying sinve 155/355 will be reduced 20% then about 8% dmg is reduced. this is wrong because of those 355 possible hits theyre not all the same dmg so cant be treated as such, since the top 155 hits out of 355 only make up 40% of the hits, they still make up about 60% of the possible dmg u can take since its only the highest hits counting, so realy the chaotic reduces about 12-14% at bandos not 8%

[metoo1000]

I love how people are avg the ely soak when in fact you can do that 17.5% is not accurate because it is based off each hit so that 30% of the time when the effect does not work only applies to each individual time a monster try to hit you. It really cant be taken as a whole so saying that it only works 17.5% of the time is a lazy effort on your math skills the fact is it is 25% of damage 70% of the time no need to refine it any further because it it works off individual hits not damage taken during a kill. so it could soak up more damage the 25% in say a hours time or less for that matter this but you all still fail to see that ely = all three of the new shields combined because it works for all three aspects of the combat triangle not just 20% of one and 10% of the other.

 

You will still land up taking less damage an hour with ely then any one of the three new shields. And all this with out saying anything about recharge cost or time it takes to get the dung levels/tokens. If anything i would much rather have one of the chaotic weapons then the shields any day.

 

For all reasonable arguments Divine is really out of comparison here its 30% of all damage ever taken which is much more then the chaotic and still quite a bit more then the ely and for prayer point loss its really minimal since if you get hit 100(1000 lp) it would only take off 15 prayer points sine it would block 30(300) of that damage and take 15 of that 30(300) off your prayer points.

 

Like i said if you can't afford ely then a chaotic shield is for you but the fact is they are still just not as good even if it where just for the inconvenience of repairing it(not the cost just the fact that it needs repairing).

 

 

[Grimy_Bunyip]

but in all fairness the argument above is wrong also, saying sinve 155/355 will be reduced 20% then about 8% dmg is reduced. this is wrong because of those 355 possible hits theyre not all the same dmg so cant be treated as such, since the top 155 hits out of 355 only make up 40% of the hits, they still make up about 60% of the possible dmg u can take since its only the highest hits counting, so realy the chaotic reduces about 12-14% at bandos not 8%

my bad

so (200 + 355)/(355) * 155/355 * 20% = 13.65%

[metoo1000]

Chaotic also costs over 200k an hour and 50 hours of dunging. All in all, your logic is flawed because ely will prevent more damage than chaotic and it has been proven that div is better than ely.

 

Divine and ely cost 100s of millions, you'll NEVER reach that amount spent using a chaotic and recharging

 

But you can sell back ely/div.

considering the time it takes to buy/sell ely's and divines at street price, with all the junk hassle and so forth

it would probably less time to earn money/tokens to charge up a chaotic shield.

 

ANYWHOO lets look at the chaotic kiteshield and see how much damage it reduces from Graardor's ranged attack, since i'm presuming you'll be praying melee

Graardor maxes at 355 ranged max hit. We know damage is evenly distributed so this means only 155/355 of graardor's ranged attacks will be reduced 20%

 

20% * 155/355 = 8.73% damage reduction, only on ranged.

any max hit over 355 and you'd probably be considering using prayer.

the ranged helper is the only one that maxes over 200 damage, so the shield's effect is basically useless on the minis.

 

clearly ely and divines are better

but tbh, considering the amount of time it takes to buy an ely and divine, unless you already have one for whatever reason, it's probably not worth the hassle.

whereas i'd see alot of people with enough spare tokens for chaotic shields in a matter of months.

 

Thank you for explaining the ONLY range soak thing this is what I have been trying to explain that even tho its good for soaking up range what about all the mage damage during the kill you take from the minion or after the kill the range and melee damage your taking.

 

my bad

so (200 + 355)/(2*355) * 155/355 * 20% = 13.65%

still ely is much better

[xSxqPowerx]

There is just no way that chaotic comes anywhere close to touching divine in the places that divine is best used (aka where you take a lot of damage). To me, cost (to buy and to use) is irrelevant - I simply want whatever i best. There are almost no places where you are consistently taking 200+ damage to use the dungeoneering shields, and even where you do... you're better off reducing every hit. The increase in defense does not overcome the fact that you are reducing less damage, less frequently, from only certain combat types.

[Squisher_33]

people say divine and ely cost too much, well chaotic costs a steady rate over time, but lets say u pay 1b for a divine, you use it for 3 months, then after that guess what? you can most liekly sell it back for 1b as long as you kept your junk

[wioneo]

Also, simply showing the stats of the chaotic shield(which has significantly higher melee defense than the other 2) in the first post is equivalent to spreading misinformation/propaganda to support your point

 

in my opinion.

 

It would be more useful(and difficult) to compare these shields to a DFS, BSS or spectral, all three of which I assume the new shields are better than, but would have to look into it more closeley.

[Iximi]

I think many of you are missing the main point that the author of this thread stated.

 

As I understand it, the superior "raw" stats of the shield will negate a lot of damage. Completely avoiding the damage of an attack is much better than just negating some of the damage. As the author's argument stands. it seems reasonable to assume that the Chaotic Shield would be better for most activities in Runescape, slayer is what comes to mind primarily. But like the author stated, some bosses and if you aren't praying mage Divine may be better overall. All of this is not considering the cost of maintenance or pray pots tho.