Chaotic is better than Divine/Elysian

[Peronix]

Wait, chaotic only absorbs damage if the hit is 200+? :blink:

 

How... how stupid. I mean I was actually going to get one for Sara GWD, but how often does the ranger (pretty much the only source of damage) hit over 200? Like never. So it's useless. :angry:

 

Won't be getting one.

[Soma2035]

Hang on a second. +2 Stab / +4 Crush is useful while +Prayer is useless?

 

I'd like to remind you that you can not wear any shield along with a Zamorakian Spear. As someone who's had a Divine for a while, the weapons I most frequently wear alongside it are the Abyssal Whip, the Rune Crossbow, and either the Void Mace or Staff of Light. Even now, how many good one-handed weapons use Stab or Crush? Only the Chaotic Rapier comes to mind, which is generally equal to the Chaotic Longsword according to most players that have had the opportunity to compare them first-hand...

 

Also, 200 damage is really quite a bit. The average hit of most enemies you listed don't surpass 200 damage. The Dungeoneering shields are generally better than Elysian at avoiding unfortunate combos, but the Divine shield is better (most places where you'd risk a knockout, you'd be using prayer, and thus you'd have plenty of prayer. The cost is not nearly as bad as some people make it out to be).

 

Also, speaking of current trends, one of the more recent trends in dangerous enemies is for the player to be vulnerable to all three attack styles. God Wars bosses always have 3 minions who do significant damage in all three styles. Tormented Demons attack with all three styles. The Corporeal Beast does damage in at least two styles, although I don't think anyone's really sure what he does as prayer doesn't block his attacks entirely. Many people still believe one of his attacks is ranged, but that makes little to no difference since it's his weakest attack. The Dagannoth Kings, although a bit older, attack with all three styles, and subject you to magical and ranged attacks from the minions.

 

So where is Chaotic really better? When you're fighting little monsters that you don't even really need the extra defense against? When I was powering Slayer from 88 to 93, I was using a defender for the accuracy, and Proselyte for prayer bonus for Turmoil. Despite the incredibly low defense, I never had issues LP-related. Tormented Demons? They don't really do much damage. As I recall, their max hit is around 300. Only about a third of the time will your shield do anything, and when it does, your shield will save you less than 60 LP... so on average, you're taking 20 LP less in damage every time the Tormented Demon hits you. You must be getting hit a lot for this to be beneficial. In contrast, an Elysian removes an average of ~26.25 LP per hit (25% reduction * 70% activation * 150 LP average). Same amount of overall damage reduction, without the additional cost... with prayer bonus that helps slightly, instead of Stab and Crush bonus that won't help unless you're using a Chaotic Rapier. And if you don't mind the cost, Divine removes an average of ~45 LP per hit (30% reduction * 150 LP average). And it's cheaper than 200K an hour... and again, prayer bonus.

[totalpwnage]

Alright, before you read my post, I'm going to go in depth on ALL three shields, explaining some of the uses I see in the shields before comparing to divine/elysian.

 

First of all, the Chaotic Kiteshield is a melee shield of course. The defensive stats on it are the highest in the game for melee/range, and is quite good for tanking. The special ability soaks up 20% range and 10% melee, with no affect on mage.

It's uses? Bandos tanking is good for this, as the range attack usually hits about 300-ish. However, most people will be guthan'ing for hp or using sgs... so that would mean they're using a whip. The other thing I see it being useful for, is actually Zammy GWD tanking. Yes, you think "but the mage attack" no, our biggest pain here is the boss hitting through melee. Also, there have been methods created to tank the boss using mage pray instead of melee anyways.

Suppose you could possibly tank sara if you really wanted but that's kinda pointless imo :P Shield + Staff of Light = possible win? but you'd have to switch people or bring Energy Transfers if you wanted a designated tank. You couldn't do this in a duo either most likely, because you have to keep the Staff of Light wielded. On top of the fact that its hit and run, the argument here is kinda pointless.

PvP could be applied here, but you're gonna end up Dscim/ddsing in a BH+1 world, with not much possibility to KO. Could be good for tanking, though.

 

The Eagle Eye Kiteshield seems like an interesting one to me, but it's uses don't seem great. Reduces 20% mage and 10% range. It's about time ranger's get a range boosting shield with defense though.

Where do I see this being a possible use? I believe armadyl is the main place to use this. However, I don't think the boss's mage hits above 200 too often. However, it does have some nice stats to it - the mage defense is comparable to spectral. However, you are still getting hit by melee, and so it kinda evens out between spectral and eagle-eye kite. Spectral isn't TOO expensive though.

Tanking in PvP could be seen here against a team if you're being hybrided though.

The kiteshield could also see use in someone ranging corp with ruby bolts (e) as well. But I think its been proven by now that you should probably just spear it and not ruby bolt (e) it.

 

The Farseer Kiteshield... this is a shield I could see many hybrids getting. Reduces 20% melee and 10% mage.

The number 1 use for this shield is, without a doubt, PvP. Hybrid vs Hybrid, you get damage reductions against both attack styles, and range is your only problem (though a tribrid with range and no familiar usually has bad gear or is wasting a lot of spaces that could be used for food). A lot of hits will get reduced here.

The other use I see could possibly be Barrows if you want to camp there with no pray. Dharok's won't be very hard with the reduction probably, but the downside is you can't use the black salamander with the shield.

Maybe DK's, if you really don't want to pray on Rex or something, but the hits you'll take from him before you safespot won't be too often.

 

So how do these compare to Divine/Elysian? Well let me put out there that I have been able to test both before. Divine definitely beats out elysian in most cases. I personally do not like elysian - I swear, it has a tendency to not block out high hits, but rather all the small ones.

The chaotic kiteshield does have that little bit of boosted defense over them. +20 might not seem like a lot, but it CAN make a difference - though it shouldn't be too much.

At bandos, it COULD be useful, but the fact that you don't protect any extra on mage makes divine kinda better.

Eagle Eye could be compared to spectral, possibly being better. But I think at armadyl it's been proven that divine/ely is better.

Farseer would be great for hybriding, and it's got better mage bonus than a Mage's book. Pretty similar to arcane except in Range defense I believe.

 

In almost all cases that I look at, it seems divine and ely are better. The only place I can see a shield doing better is the Farseer Kiteshield when you're hybriding in PvP.

However, I believe that Jagex's intent of these shields is to make them cheap alternatives to divine/ely if you can't afford them, and with that, you could possibly bring down the high street price of divine/ely to actually be their GE price. So I believe it was their intent to make these shields NOT as good as the divine/ely, but a little worse while still having some similar effects.

 

The fact that it has to hit above 200 for the effect to work also kinda ruins the shield's uses -- if there was no limit, then there would definitely be more use in the shields, but still not comparable to what a divine/ely can do... MAYBE comparable to elysian though because that 70% chance gets to be annoying.

[Squisher_33]

heres an idea, rune def > all! ther thread ended yay :smile:

[Bladewing]

heres an idea, rune def > all! ther thread ended yay :smile:

We already know that divine>defender at solo bandos. So no, it doesn't end the thread.

[Squisher_33]

heres an idea, rune def > all! ther thread ended yay :smile:

We already know that divine>defender at solo bandos. So no, it doesn't end the thread.

 

maybe for more kills yes but actualy rune def > divine for solo bandos, go try soloing bandos with whip + divine, cuz worlds are just too crowded these days and someone with def + whip will crash you

 

so although you can last much longer, defender gets you more kills

[Bladewing]

heres an idea, rune def > all! ther thread ended yay :smile:

We already know that divine>defender at solo bandos. So no, it doesn't end the thread.

 

maybe for more kills yes but actualy rune def > divine for solo bandos, go try soloing bandos with whip + divine, cuz worlds are just too crowded these days and someone with def + whip will crash you

 

so although you can last much longer, defender gets you more kills

Just sayin', it's probably because you aren't 99 attack/strength or 95 prayer. Plus you could just bring a defender and switch it when someone tries to crash.

[Squisher_33]

heres an idea, rune def > all! ther thread ended yay :smile:

We already know that divine>defender at solo bandos. So no, it doesn't end the thread.

 

maybe for more kills yes but actualy rune def > divine for solo bandos, go try soloing bandos with whip + divine, cuz worlds are just too crowded these days and someone with def + whip will crash you

 

so although you can last much longer, defender gets you more kills

Just sayin', it's probably because you aren't 99 attack/strength or 95 prayer. Plus you could just bring a defender and switch it when someone tries to crash.

 

true, and i have 94 att + overload + turmoil banked (85 now but it may be a week or 2 im too lazy to use 25k bones) but rune def is still big diff on high def monsters

[yuriqiu]

138 combat, overloads, whip + divine means no one is willing to crash you. It wouldn't make sense for someone to try crash you when they can so much easily crash a world where 120s are trying to ffa duo bandos. Switch the whip out with a CLS, you're set.

[Squisher_33]

138 combat, overloads, whip + divine means no one is willing to crash you. It wouldn't make sense for someone to try crash you when they can so much easily crash a world where 120s are trying to ffa duo bandos. Switch the whip out with a CLS, you're set.

 

still bring rune def with you, although its rare, there are still 138s with max gear, claws, rune def, and cls and spec pots who will crash anyone, heck after yak runs out naruto still brings steel titan with him, hes 2/3 till chaotic i cant wait to see him wreck later

[meb]

Why would you use a shield that's not a rune defender when you're not hunting bosses? You should only use those superspecialawesome shields when boss hunting.

[totalpwnage]

heres an idea, rune def > all! ther thread ended yay :smile:

We already know that divine>defender at solo bandos. So no, it doesn't end the thread.

Also have fun using a rune defender at armadyl or sara! :D

 

Why would you use a shield that's not a rune defender when you're not hunting bosses? You should only use those superspecialawesome shields when boss hunting.

PvP possibly. Or training in PvP. For anything like slayer or possibly even a new quest (never know what you'll end up having to avoid) you won't need it. Note that doing DK's for a dagannoth task doesn't apply here -.-

[Golvellius]

Choatic Kiteshield is the worst of the bunch.

No strength bonus just kills it compared to DFS.

 

Eagle Eye is mediocre.

I'd rather get a spiritual shield with no additional melee penalties since I already use arma with its penalties.

Range damage soak isn't that great. Tough ranging monsters are rare outside of dungeoneering.

 

Farseer shield is unqiue one of the bunch.

Its arcane shield with with some damage soak in right catagories.

I'd like that and then replace ahrim top/hood with verac brassy/helm and get that new prayer.

Thats alot of melee/range def on a mage that could still hit tier 2 magic defense easily.

[totalpwnage]

Choatic Kiteshield is the worst of the bunch.

No strength bonus just kills it compared to DFS.

 

Eagle Eye is mediocre.

I'd rather get a spiritual shield with no additional melee penalties since I already use arma with its penalties.

Range damage soak isn't that great. Tough ranging monsters are rare outside of dungeoneering.

 

Farseer shield is unqiue one of the bunch.

Its arcane shield with with some damage soak in right catagories.

I'd like that and then replace ahrim top/hood with verac brassy/helm and get that new prayer.

Thats alot of melee/range def on a mage that could still hit tier 2 magic defense easily.

Strength bonus isn't everything for the Chaotic, but I'd still rather use a DFS, because the shield takes like a week of work to get.

 

Eagle Eye isn't made for meleeing, thus the melee penalties. It's made for ranging. The same thing goes for arma. The reason they do this is to discourage meleers from being able to very easily defend themselves against mages whilst fighting back.

 

And yes, I do think that Farseer is the best one of the bunch. But replacing that top with a brassy is a bad move >.> Don't see where you would want to use that.

[finalheaven]

i will get 1 to see which is better! saving up for my second chaotic items :D

[gypsyeater]

Get eagle eye or farseer. Haven't seen those preform yet =P

[yuriqiu]

I'm very tempted at purchasing a Farseer, however it's still so similar to the Arcane and with a lower alch value just turns me off. Chaotic Kite is beast at bandos by the way. I'm sure it is just slightly better than Elysian there. Don't see much use for it outside of Bandos solo unfortunately.

[Mazhar]

For the guy who suggested def over a shield:

I just did a bandos trip, well, tried, first world was empty but low population, and the next world I hopped to 1k+ was empty too, first kill was amazingly fast ( it didnt range me at all), second it ranged me 3 times for 200+,100+, 300+, 3rd it ranged me 6x 300+ 3x 200+ 1x100 and I teled that same kill and died in house after doing nothing but pure brew spamming (was redbarred 3 times so i just teled, at a good time too). It hits so much more on defender, you could probably kill it faster w/ a real shield since you attack instead of eat, got hit like 10/10 of the times it ranged, with it shield it feels like it misses half the time) worlds arent really an issue (especially for someone like me), trips are shorter.. so yeah shield > def in my book for the above reason^

[stonewall337]

Defender is better in ffa or duo, but otherwise a shield is better, as long as you aren't getting crashed.

[ghjkl]

I would still take a defender with you, and use it when you get crashed. Same thing with steel titan. Of course I don't bother with bandos as TDS is much better money.

[yuriqiu]

I still don't understand why so many people complain about being crashed at bandos. I know people that solo Bandos day and night, the only thing they complain about is the spamming for a bless call when people don't respond. Never even heard of people crashing solo bandos worlds. If you are getting crashed, it's most likely because you don't have the level required to kill it. In which case I suggest you go train more.

 

Divine > Chaotic > Elysian > DFS @ Bandos.

[Mazhar]

I still don't understand why so many people complain about being crashed at bandos. I know people that solo Bandos day and night, the only thing they complain about is the spamming for a bless call when people don't respond. Never even heard of people crashing solo bandos worlds. If you are getting crashed, it's most likely because you don't have the level required to kill it. In which case I suggest you go train more.

 

Divine > Chaotic > Elysian > DFS @ Bandos.

ely is still better than chaotic, mage mini can hit same as graar at times and +2 17.5% (theoretically) > -4 0% blocked.. and +57 17.5% > 89 up to, as someone said before, 20% 1/2 the time

I know you think its better because you got 144 or so kc w/ chaotic but I assure you cls was the reason, not the kite.