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People who do not understand what it takes to create an update


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Just because something takes a while to produce doesn't mean they put a lot of thought into steps 1 and 2. Most players who don't like something don't make a thread and rant about it. It's mostly volatile idiots or trolls.

 

BTW- quelmotz you're an idiot.

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Quelmotz, please go away.

 

OT: In riality though, there are some updates they could do weekly. Those updates are fixes for features that really need of an update (like the small stuff). However, Jagex do need to release actual content more frequent. They are a decently large staff with experience.

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I have to agree with this. ALL KINDS of programming take time and resources to do. Oh and quelmotz, can you stop lighting a flame for 5 months, please?

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Yea i agree a lot of the times complainers are morons.

 

But Jagex spends months on an update, that is fatally flawed from the beginning and doesnt know the game well enough to fix it before it is released deserves the army of complainers.

 

 

Theres literally dozens of times, that i just #-o and ask myself if jagex even plays this game for themselves.

 

 

 

So its a double edged sword. Yes we should try out their work that they spent a long time on, but at the same time there shouldnt be a bad project because if their designing something for months how can they let some real fail updates go in development for so long without catching that.

 

I have to agree with this for one point alone - it seems like the developers never, ever ask themselves, "How could this fail?" or "How will this make other content fail?" Every time I think I have a great new idea I want to suggest to Jagex, those are the first things I ask myself, and I usually come up with a sizeable list of failures, so I end up just forgetting about the suggestion. But I'm only one person, with a team of almost 400 people to bounce ideas off of and work out the kinks, there should be better updates coming out. For example, the new Elemental Workshop 3 quest - out of 400 people, no one stopped to ask, "Isn't there a better way to move the tiles than putting dozens of switches around the grid?" When the grid spans the entire room, who wants to spend literally hours running around flipping switches, when they could have added a nice little "control box" for our avatars to operate that would let us simply click the tiles, instead of watching our avs run around like idiots for three hours? And why is it we have to wait for Batch 2 of Dungeoneering to save our solo progress? Why wasn't that implemented from the start?

It's those kinds of fails that make it into the game that turn what could be great updates into mediocre or rubbish updates, and I think that's what most people try to complain about, but don't know how to complain about it properly. For the most part, I like to believe the majority of players do appreciate and respect the amount of effort it takes to churn out regular updates so frequently, and we may set too high of expectations for some releases, but Jagex could avoid a lot of these problems by spending a little more time on the pre-production aspect and asking "Can this be done better?"

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My problem isn't necessarily the programming time or bugs. I only complain when content is unbalanced in the context of the game (a perfect example would be the bonecrusher requiring level 21 dungeoneering even though it's impossible to get before the early 60s, I believe). I would be happy with one update a month or every two months if the content was properly balanced and actually contributed to the game. A BAD example of that would be EW pt. 3. We get a quest with an obscenely difficult puzzle that we only do ONCE and are rewarded with a piece of armor that does literally NOTHING. The story doesn't even go anywhere that we didn't already know it would. This, IMO, is an example of bad planning and thinking on Jagex' part. I just don't understand why the developers would spend the time programming a piece of content that would only be used once with crappy rewards that wont EVER be used for anything.

 

Frankly, it's a waste of our money. Who here enjoyed EW pt. 3 and is planning to enjoy the rewards and lore for a long time to come?

 

I'm hearing crickets.

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Go ahead and "petition" against me. I've full rights to remain on this thread if I wish. See if I care about your attacks.

 

quelmotz -- I said that there are people who both overestimate *and* underestimate how hard it is to do things in RuneScape. I didn't personally attack anyone on this thread. You responded by calling me an idiot and talking about my ego.

 

Try staying on topic. Hint: the topic is not your personal feelings about me, which I couldn't care less about (I get flamed here on a daily basis by better than you) and I doubt anyone else cares about either.

 

I don't know how you expect me to "substantiate" my point any better. I already gave the example of the 40 second world switch delay due to "profile transferring", which anyone who knows anything about the Internet knows is total BS. But people still say it's really needed.

 

I never said you were personally attacking them. I just said you were insulting them for overestimating and underestimating how hard it is to do things in RuneScape.

 

You realise you're just insulting your own intelligence by dropping ridiculously obvious hints? Wait - your sarcasm failed so badly I didn't realise it was sarcasm until now.

 

I read the thread on the 40 second delay, and if I'm not wrong almost no one confidently said it was because of transferring. Those who said "I think" and such don't count - they felt doubt in Jagex's claims. Those who actually confidently said so were plain ignoramuses, BUT compared to the overwhelming majority who occupy a grey area in between, they are few. I hardly see how they constitute a substantial group, which I think you're referring to when you say "people".

 

 

I have to agree with this for one point alone - it seems like the developers never, ever ask themselves, "How could this fail?" or "How will this make other content fail?" Every time I think I have a great new idea I want to suggest to Jagex, those are the first things I ask myself, and I usually come up with a sizeable list of failures, so I end up just forgetting about the suggestion. But I'm only one person, with a team of almost 400 people to bounce ideas off of and work out the kinks, there should be better updates coming out. For example, the new Elemental Workshop 3 quest - out of 400 people, no one stopped to ask, "Isn't there a better way to move the tiles than putting dozens of switches around the grid?" When the grid spans the entire room, who wants to spend literally hours running around flipping switches, when they could have added a nice little "control box" for our avatars to operate that would let us simply click the tiles, instead of watching our avs run around like idiots for three hours? And why is it we have to wait for Batch 2 of Dungeoneering to save our solo progress? Why wasn't that implemented from the start?

It's those kinds of fails that make it into the game that turn what could be great updates into mediocre or rubbish updates, and I think that's what most people try to complain about, but don't know how to complain about it properly. For the most part, I like to believe the majority of players do appreciate and respect the amount of effort it takes to churn out regular updates so frequently, and we may set too high of expectations for some releases, but Jagex could avoid a lot of these problems by spending a little more time on the pre-production aspect and asking "Can this be done better?"

 

Granted, Jagex does make ridiculous mistakes once in a while. I think we sometimes focus too much on them, and not on the positive side of things.

 

You talk about Batch 2 of Dungeoneering, and that it should be implemented from the start. Look - 400 developers. They can be skilled, but how are they supposed to spot every single mistake in the update? It's impossible. It's much easier for the thousands of players to spot mistakes, and for Jagex to consolidate all the fixes for the minor updates and release them in one go. Also, there might be content they're unsure about. Keeping them back and observing the player's response, e.g. if they ask for that exact piece of content, then they'll release it. Of course, there will also be many other new pieces of content that they haven't thought about. As i said, it's impossible for a group of 400 developers, skilled or not to have the best ideas/solutions for every single thing. The hundreds of thousands of players will surely think of some amazing ideas that slipped the developers' minds.

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Go ahead and "petition" against me. I've full rights to remain on this thread if I wish. See if I care about your attacks.

 

quelmotz -- I said that there are people who both overestimate *and* underestimate how hard it is to do things in RuneScape. I didn't personally attack anyone on this thread. You responded by calling me an idiot and talking about my ego.

 

Try staying on topic. Hint: the topic is not your personal feelings about me, which I couldn't care less about (I get flamed here on a daily basis by better than you) and I doubt anyone else cares about either.

 

I don't know how you expect me to "substantiate" my point any better. I already gave the example of the 40 second world switch delay due to "profile transferring", which anyone who knows anything about the Internet knows is total BS. But people still say it's really needed.

 

I never said you were personally attacking them. I just said you were insulting them for overestimating and underestimating how hard it is to do things in RuneScape.

 

You realise you're just insulting your own intelligence by dropping ridiculously obvious hints? Wait - your sarcasm failed so badly I didn't realise it was sarcasm until now.

 

I read the thread on the 40 second delay, and if I'm not wrong almost no one confidently said it was because of transferring. Those who said "I think" and such don't count - they felt doubt in Jagex's claims. Those who actually confidently said so were plain ignoramuses, BUT compared to the overwhelming majority who occupy a grey area in between, they are few. I hardly see how they constitute a substantial group, which I think you're referring to when you say "people".

 

 

I have to agree with this for one point alone - it seems like the developers never, ever ask themselves, "How could this fail?" or "How will this make other content fail?" Every time I think I have a great new idea I want to suggest to Jagex, those are the first things I ask myself, and I usually come up with a sizeable list of failures, so I end up just forgetting about the suggestion. But I'm only one person, with a team of almost 400 people to bounce ideas off of and work out the kinks, there should be better updates coming out. For example, the new Elemental Workshop 3 quest - out of 400 people, no one stopped to ask, "Isn't there a better way to move the tiles than putting dozens of switches around the grid?" When the grid spans the entire room, who wants to spend literally hours running around flipping switches, when they could have added a nice little "control box" for our avatars to operate that would let us simply click the tiles, instead of watching our avs run around like idiots for three hours? And why is it we have to wait for Batch 2 of Dungeoneering to save our solo progress? Why wasn't that implemented from the start?

It's those kinds of fails that make it into the game that turn what could be great updates into mediocre or rubbish updates, and I think that's what most people try to complain about, but don't know how to complain about it properly. For the most part, I like to believe the majority of players do appreciate and respect the amount of effort it takes to churn out regular updates so frequently, and we may set too high of expectations for some releases, but Jagex could avoid a lot of these problems by spending a little more time on the pre-production aspect and asking "Can this be done better?"

 

Granted, Jagex does make ridiculous mistakes once in a while. I think we sometimes focus too much on them, and not on the positive side of things.

 

You talk about Batch 2 of Dungeoneering, and that it should be implemented from the start. Look - 400 developers. They can be skilled, but how are they supposed to spot every single mistake in the update? It's impossible. It's much easier for the thousands of players to spot mistakes, and for Jagex to consolidate all the fixes for the minor updates and release them in one go. Also, there might be content they're unsure about. Keeping them back and observing the player's response, e.g. if they ask for that exact piece of content, then they'll release it. Of course, there will also be many other new pieces of content that they haven't thought about. As i said, it's impossible for a group of 400 developers, skilled or not to have the best ideas/solutions for every single thing. The hundreds of thousands of players will surely think of some amazing ideas that slipped the developers' minds.

 

Around 100 are developers which work on fun orb, stellar dawn, runescape, and other games. The rest handle customer relations.

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Go ahead and "petition" against me. I've full rights to remain on this thread if I wish. See if I care about your attacks.

 

quelmotz -- I said that there are people who both overestimate *and* underestimate how hard it is to do things in RuneScape. I didn't personally attack anyone on this thread. You responded by calling me an idiot and talking about my ego.

 

Try staying on topic. Hint: the topic is not your personal feelings about me, which I couldn't care less about (I get flamed here on a daily basis by better than you) and I doubt anyone else cares about either.

 

I don't know how you expect me to "substantiate" my point any better. I already gave the example of the 40 second world switch delay due to "profile transferring", which anyone who knows anything about the Internet knows is total BS. But people still say it's really needed.

 

I never said you were personally attacking them. I just said you were insulting them for overestimating and underestimating how hard it is to do things in RuneScape.

 

You realise you're just insulting your own intelligence by dropping ridiculously obvious hints? Wait - your sarcasm failed so badly I didn't realise it was sarcasm until now.

 

I read the thread on the 40 second delay, and if I'm not wrong almost no one confidently said it was because of transferring. Those who said "I think" and such don't count - they felt doubt in Jagex's claims. Those who actually confidently said so were plain ignoramuses, BUT compared to the overwhelming majority who occupy a grey area in between, they are few. I hardly see how they constitute a substantial group, which I think you're referring to when you say "people".

 

 

I have to agree with this for one point alone - it seems like the developers never, ever ask themselves, "How could this fail?" or "How will this make other content fail?" Every time I think I have a great new idea I want to suggest to Jagex, those are the first things I ask myself, and I usually come up with a sizeable list of failures, so I end up just forgetting about the suggestion. But I'm only one person, with a team of almost 400 people to bounce ideas off of and work out the kinks, there should be better updates coming out. For example, the new Elemental Workshop 3 quest - out of 400 people, no one stopped to ask, "Isn't there a better way to move the tiles than putting dozens of switches around the grid?" When the grid spans the entire room, who wants to spend literally hours running around flipping switches, when they could have added a nice little "control box" for our avatars to operate that would let us simply click the tiles, instead of watching our avs run around like idiots for three hours? And why is it we have to wait for Batch 2 of Dungeoneering to save our solo progress? Why wasn't that implemented from the start?

It's those kinds of fails that make it into the game that turn what could be great updates into mediocre or rubbish updates, and I think that's what most people try to complain about, but don't know how to complain about it properly. For the most part, I like to believe the majority of players do appreciate and respect the amount of effort it takes to churn out regular updates so frequently, and we may set too high of expectations for some releases, but Jagex could avoid a lot of these problems by spending a little more time on the pre-production aspect and asking "Can this be done better?"

 

Granted, Jagex does make ridiculous mistakes once in a while. I think we sometimes focus too much on them, and not on the positive side of things.

 

You talk about Batch 2 of Dungeoneering, and that it should be implemented from the start. Look - 400 developers. They can be skilled, but how are they supposed to spot every single mistake in the update? It's impossible. It's much easier for the thousands of players to spot mistakes, and for Jagex to consolidate all the fixes for the minor updates and release them in one go. Also, there might be content they're unsure about. Keeping them back and observing the player's response, e.g. if they ask for that exact piece of content, then they'll release it. Of course, there will also be many other new pieces of content that they haven't thought about. As i said, it's impossible for a group of 400 developers, skilled or not to have the best ideas/solutions for every single thing. The hundreds of thousands of players will surely think of some amazing ideas that slipped the developers' minds.

 

Around 100 are developers which work on fun orb, stellar dawn, runescape, and other games. The rest handle customer relations.

 

I don't really know how reliable those figures are, but assuming they're correct, that just further adds on to my point.

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Customer Relations in a lie.

Runescape needs to stop pocketing money and hire more people. Consider it's profits. I would say steadily growing. Look at updates. Hardly anything big, besides that mini game.

 

Look at other MMOs, I'll use WoW as an example. They have over 2k (No joke) admins for customer support. Things gets done. Bugs gets fixed.

 

In RS, theres a computer with a quota of responses to give and things to do. Bugs take an eternity to fix, and damage the economy. Updates are made, but always flawed in one way or another.

 

 

 

Jagex needs to either have OPEN testing or hire more employees.

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Customer Relations in a lie.

Runescape needs to stop pocketing money and hire more people. Consider it's profits. I would say steadily growing. Look at updates. Hardly anything big, besides that mini game.

 

Look at other MMOs, I'll use WoW as an example. They have over 2k (No joke) admins for customer support. Things gets done. Bugs gets fixed.

 

In RS, theres a computer with a quota of responses to give and things to do. Bugs take an eternity to fix, and damage the economy. Updates are made, but always flawed in one way or another.

 

 

 

Jagex needs to either have OPEN testing or hire more employees.

 

I would like to direct you to the part of the WoW website that states the membership requirements and costs.

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Just checking...The ACTUAL point of the profile lag time is so you can't just hop worlds in five seconds and mine rune ores and stuff like that?

Before there was in-game world switcher, people made world switcher programs which had bookmarks of RS servers. Jagex thought world switcher programs gave unfair advantage and made them against rules. Players suggested to add the switching timer instead of banning the programs.

 

Now the timer is as obsolete as the pure essence separation (which was done due to RWT bot armies).

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Pure ess separation?

 

 

Also, a random thought, if you pay someone to paint your huge house over a summer, and they do a crap job, do you say "oh it was hard that's ok"?

 

No. You get angry.

 

Same with Jag sending out crap for bug fixes.

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Pure ess separation?

 

 

Also, a random thought, if you pay someone to paint your huge house over a summer, and they do a crap job, do you say "oh it was hard that's ok"?

 

No. You get angry.

 

Same with Jag sending out crap for bug fixes.

Did you even read the title? You obviously have no programming experience or you have never dealt with over 2 million lines of code. If you are going to put-down a company you could at least grow a pair and use their full name: "Jagex".

 

Lets say you had painters paint your house. Lets say that you paid enough to cover all of the paint and half of the labor involved and gave them two days to apply two coats without flaws and dirt. Then after they finish and show you your house, before you even see it, you complain about it. You (Runescape in general) are paying $5.00 a month and are expecting new content weekly without bugs. In the programming world, with only a handful of developers, it is nearly impossible even with amazing skills.

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Pure ess separation?

When Runecrafting came out, there was just one type of Rune Essence that was useable by both p2p and f2p and could be imbued at any altar. Greedy morons saw this as a gold mine, created tons of bots to just mine ess on f2p then sell it to members or just to get gp to sell irl.

Jagex split Rune Essence into Pure and "regular" ess with the built-in restrictions to prevent this.

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Pure ess separation?

When Runecrafting came out, there was just one type of Rune Essence that was useable by both p2p and f2p and could be imbued at any altar. Greedy morons saw this as a gold mine, created tons of bots to just mine ess on f2p then sell it to members or just to get gp to sell irl.

Jagex split Rune Essence into Pure and "regular" ess with the built-in restrictions to prevent this.

 

 

This ultimately resulted in bots paying for membership to mine p-ess, sell it for way more then regular ess, cover membership costs + make more money.

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Pure ess separation?

When Runecrafting came out, there was just one type of Rune Essence that was useable by both p2p and f2p and could be imbued at any altar. Greedy morons saw this as a gold mine, created tons of bots to just mine ess on f2p then sell it to members or just to get gp to sell irl.

Jagex split Rune Essence into Pure and "regular" ess with the built-in restrictions to prevent this.

 

 

This ultimately resulted in bots paying for membership to mine p-ess, sell it for way more then regular ess, cover membership costs + make more money.

And the payments were made with stolen credit cards, so Jagex had to make the trade limits. Basically, it was Jagex's own fault that the RWT CC fraud problem worsened.

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