Tip.It Times - 06th June 2010

[Racheya]

Time for a new release of the: >>>Tip.It Times!<<<

 

When replying please make sure to clarify the article you are replying to! Thanks!

 

If you spot any typos or mistakes in the article then please PM them to me :)

 

Enjoy the articles!

[Danqazmlp]

I think it would have been nice to have had the overall exp minimum required to complete all the quests included in the first article to give some facts to the skill levels section.

 

But good articles none the less.

 

Plus 06th looks very strange to me for some reason.

[mikeg0477]

Both articles were quite good this week. Nice jobs all around! =D>

[jettrider]

From the first article -

 

Not to be outdone, Jagex upped the ante on puzzles with the recent quest, Elemental Workshop III. This quest includes a three dimensional, challenging sliding puzzle which operates on a move-timer. The timer ensures that a user doesn’t accidentally trip over the solution through luck, but rather works their brain into a fuzzy grey matter mess before eventually triumphing and emerging with the illustrious Body Body.

 

I would agree that, for those using guides, the EW3 puzzle may have been harder than the Temple of Light. However, without any aid whatsoever, I have to say that understanding how to manipulate the light beams is much harder than grasping the mechanics of this sliding puzzle. It helps to think of it not as a 3d slider but as a slider with two unique pieces that must be present in specific places as part of the final solution. Actually, since other sliders have all unique pieces, I'd say the difficulty comes not from the third dimension but from the differences from regular sliders (method of moving pieces, move counter, obstacles).

 

To bring the puzzle part of the prestige to the Quest Cape, Jagex has to create puzzles like these two where the starting position is randomized. A player therefore has no way to follow a step by step guide but must understand the workings of the puzzle. That ups the difficulty for a lot of the people that stormveritas mocks while keeping the same level of difficulty for those who already struggle without guides.

[doogsidoof]

I really liked the articles this week.

 

@ the quest cape article, I think its an interesting concept that this cape is the only cape that keeps getting harder to get as time goes on. The fact that all other capes stay about the same to achieve, not taking onto account nerfing of xp rates or adding a new method to train providing faster xp, makes me feel that having a quest cape is more exciting than just a skill cape. Another reason that adds to that is the chase of keeping the quest cape and logging on every week and not knowing of your going to have to quest or not to be able to wear the cape.

 

One question i did have is that do you think it would be possible that in the future, due to either such a vast number of quests or a few quests that are ridiculously hard to complete, that the quest cape would become one of the most elite capes?

[Sublexation]

In response to the multitasking article, I see where players get the urge to multi-task by browsing the forums or watching tv or a movie. I do this too. Its not that I don't like runescape. I mean I like the content, leveling up my skills, the simple game play. What runescape doesn't do and probably will never do is offer a comparable gaming experience where the player is completely immersed in their surroundings. Its a game where you can play as intensively as you want, or you can kick back and fish while watching iron man. You can't watch tv while playing xbox or playstation (well you can but it'd be rather difficult).

[Saru Inc]

Ok:

 

 

First quest cape article:

 

YES YES YES !!!! I AGREE! I can't stand people who are like "I killed Jad with lvl 12 prayer and bronze arrows he's a joke, all the rest of you just suck" Ok we all know you're either lying, or discovered a glitch, stop looking for praise.

 

 

To second article:

 

I really liked the poll idea, along with the article in general, because it says what I've always said, people play this game for achievement. Thats why I play it, I spend my days off hanging out with friends etc, but I CANNOT sleep unless I know I've accomplished something, whether it be harvesting snaps, collecting daily B staves, or getting 99 Sailing.

However, Racheya I think the ending was kind of lack luster, no offence. It just seemed to end abruptly, loved the article in general.

 

Great job all 3 of y'all.

[Racheya]

I really liked the poll idea, along with the article in general, because it says what I've always said, people play this game for achievement. Thats why I play it, I spend my days off hanging out with friends etc, but I CANNOT sleep unless I know I've accomplished something, whether it be harvesting snaps, collecting daily B staves, or getting 99 Sailing.

However, Racheya I think the ending was kind of lack luster, no offence. It just seemed to end abruptly, loved the article in general.

 

Great job all 3 of y'all.

Editing is more of spelling/grammar for guest articles. With regular articles we can discuss improvements with the author, but guest articles come as they are.

[Beaumonde]

Concerning the quest cape, I think what really matters is how long it takes of in game time to get a quest cape. If that's longer then it takes to get any skill cape then in theory the quest cape is harder to get.

[Will H]

Concerning the quest cape, I think what really matters is how long it takes of in game time to get a quest cape. If that's longer then it takes to get any skill cape then in theory the quest cape is harder to get.

 

It's partly that, but you can't get into a real routine with quests. You have to train pretty much every skill to a reasonable degree as well as do the quests themselves instead of just do the same thing for a long time.

[bedman]

Really liked the second article, cause it's exactly how I see it too. Just now I was talking to some typical lvl 82 with 99 cooking and fletching. I was asking why she got these skills to 99. She answered something along the lines of: You got to start with something easy, and I can do other stuff while doing it. When people say things like this, I instantly start thinking about what's the point of "playing" a game. These people aren't playing a game, they are just clicking "make x" and doing something else. What's the point of playing then. I could understand if you do it for certain things, so you can play more intense later (let's say afk'ing mobilising armies, so you got better PK gear). However, in this case, the person was planning on getting 99 firemaking and woodcutting next (how extremely original).

 

Personally, I enjoy Runescape the most when it is intense: Doing dungeoneering, fighting waterfiends in multicombat with overloads, a familiar, special attack scrolls, spec weapon, spec restores, you get the picture. Even when I'm slaying I'm mostly paying quite a bit of attention. I prefer paying attention and trying to things on maximum efficiency over a non-interactive way of playing, if you can even call clicking "make x" every 2 minutes a game.

[tortilliachp]

Really liked the second article, cause it's exactly how I see it too. Just now I was talking to some typical lvl 82 with 99 cooking and fletching. I was asking why she got these skills to 99. She answered something along the lines of: You got to start with something easy, and I can do other stuff while doing it. When people say things like this, I instantly start thinking about what's the point of "playing" a game. These people aren't playing a game, they are just clicking "make x" and doing something else. What's the point of playing then. I could understand if you do it for certain things, so you can play more intense later (let's say afk'ing mobilising armies, so you got better PK gear). However, in this case, the person was planning on getting 99 firemaking and woodcutting next (how extremely original).

 

Personally, I enjoy Runescape the most when it is intense: Doing dungeoneering, fighting waterfiends in multicombat with overloads, a familiar, special attack scrolls, spec weapon, spec restores, you get the picture. Even when I'm slaying I'm mostly paying quite a bit of attention. I prefer paying attention and trying to things on maximum efficiency over a non-interactive way of playing, if you can even call clicking "make x" every 2 minutes a game.

 

thing is though, the afkable skills, all skills come together in "end-game content" such as dungeoneering. I got 99 wc while doing homework, i got 99 cooking while doing homework, i got 99 fletching while running from slayer task to slayer task with bolts: these things took me little to no time. I reap the benefits having more fun while dungeoneering: less hassle while doing the dungeons.

 

However, with slayer, with other skills, i have fun playing. Training the skills are means to an end: more fun. 94 range and mage wasn't fun, having 76 defence at 116 combat, but "pure" pking was epic. Maxing out prayer wasn't fun then and there. but it was worth all the amazing f2p pking at high combat at w3 castle (now those were the days), 85 mining was completely worth it for rune rock pking with teams (being a miner, I could always find friends who wanted to go, because i had mining), 95 agility was quite fun chatting to people (irl friends, ventrilo, teamspeak, msn etc.) not because of the runescape, but because of the other activities: runescape wasn't what i was primarily doing, it was secondary. The agility for f2p warring and pking before the agility update led to epic drags, more damange and more fun f2p warring. That was definitely fun.

 

 

skill training: a nice secondary activity to do while having fun online IRL, the fun things in runescape need them for when you're in the mood for runescape (as primary activity). That's how i see it anyway.

[Viv]

....why is reading tipit different than browsing the official forums in that poll???

 

anyway my friend asked me why i don't watch videos during every skill and only did for herblore/fletching/fishing/wc

 

"how can u runecraft with just music?"

 

answer - i like paying attention most of the time not just hulu everything.

 

but i cant browse forums while dungeoneering.....and its one of my fave skills.

 

i browse tip.it when i slay someetimes just because but nowdays i use turmoil and extremes and it makes it fun :D

 

 

fletching was my 21st 99 because i wasnt so concerned about 99ing it but i got cooking 2nd for an easy trim it was fun chatting in rouges den back in the day..

[Saru Inc]

Really liked the second article, cause it's exactly how I see it too. Just now I was talking to some typical lvl 82 with 99 cooking and fletching. I was asking why she got these skills to 99. She answered something along the lines of: You got to start with something easy, and I can do other stuff while doing it. When people say things like this, I instantly start thinking about what's the point of "playing" a game. These people aren't playing a game, they are just clicking "make x" and doing something else. What's the point of playing then. I could understand if you do it for certain things, so you can play more intense later (let's say afk'ing mobilising armies, so you got better PK gear). However, in this case, the person was planning on getting 99 firemaking and woodcutting next (how extremely original).

 

Personally, I enjoy Runescape the most when it is intense: Doing dungeoneering, fighting waterfiends in multicombat with overloads, a familiar, special attack scrolls, spec weapon, spec restores, you get the picture. Even when I'm slaying I'm mostly paying quite a bit of attention. I prefer paying attention and trying to things on maximum efficiency over a non-interactive way of playing, if you can even call clicking "make x" every 2 minutes a game.

 

thing is though, the afkable skills, all skills come together in "end-game content" such as dungeoneering. I got 99 wc while doing homework, i got 99 cooking while doing homework, i got 99 fletching while running from slayer task to slayer task with bolts: these things took me little to no time. I reap the benefits having more fun while dungeoneering: less hassle while doing the dungeons.

 

However, with slayer, with other skills, i have fun playing. Training the skills are means to an end: more fun. 94 range and mage wasn't fun, having 76 defence at 116 combat, but "pure" pking was epic. Maxing out prayer wasn't fun then and there. but it was worth all the amazing f2p pking at high combat at w3 castle (now those were the days), 85 mining was completely worth it for rune rock pking with teams (being a miner, I could always find friends who wanted to go, because i had mining), 95 agility was quite fun chatting to people (irl friends, ventrilo, teamspeak, msn etc.) not because of the runescape, but because of the other activities: runescape wasn't what i was primarily doing, it was secondary. The agility for f2p warring and pking before the agility update led to epic drags, more damange and more fun f2p warring. That was definitely fun.

 

 

skill training: a nice secondary activity to do while having fun online IRL, the fun things in runescape need them for when you're in the mood for runescape (as primary activity). That's how i see it anyway.

 

 

Agreed. I really am disliking this trend thats been going on, where everyone is freaking out (literally) when people play Runescape for different reasons. Or, they get their capes for reasons other than the ones accepted in this social norm. For example, I currently am going for Agility and Mining capes, why? I hate the skills, I hate them so much, but if I'm going for all 99's, I might as well get them sometime, yes? Besides, I LOVE the capes themselves, the feeling of 99's, and let's face it, the respect I get.

 

Why don't YOU play Runescape that way? (You referring to the people who flame other people for getting a 99 for the sole reason of so they have a 99)

[bedman]

Let's not try to turn this into another 99 cape discussion. Last thing I'm going to add is: It's your choice to do things you hate in your spare time, but I prefer not to.

[Troacctid]

From the first article -

 

Not to be outdone, Jagex upped the ante on puzzles with the recent quest, Elemental Workshop III. This quest includes a three dimensional, challenging sliding puzzle which operates on a move-timer. The timer ensures that a user doesnt accidentally trip over the solution through luck, but rather works their brain into a fuzzy grey matter mess before eventually triumphing and emerging with the illustrious Body Body.

 

I would agree that, for those using guides, the EW3 puzzle may have been harder than the Temple of Light. However, without any aid whatsoever, I have to say that understanding how to manipulate the light beams is much harder than grasping the mechanics of this sliding puzzle. It helps to think of it not as a 3d slider but as a slider with two unique pieces that must be present in specific places as part of the final solution. Actually, since other sliders have all unique pieces, I'd say the difficulty comes not from the third dimension but from the differences from regular sliders (method of moving pieces, move counter, obstacles).

 

To bring the puzzle part of the prestige to the Quest Cape, Jagex has to create puzzles like these two where the starting position is randomized. A player therefore has no way to follow a step by step guide but must understand the workings of the puzzle. That ups the difficulty for a lot of the people that stormveritas mocks while keeping the same level of difficulty for those who already struggle without guides.

 

Mod Dylan's response:

As this quest is only played through once per account (unlike the treasure trail puzzles), it was considered unnecessary to randomise it to give it variation, as this would have added significant development and QA time without much noticeable benefit.

 

Another problem with randomising is we would not be able to guarantee two players approaching the puzzle would have that same difficulty of problem to solve.

Source

[strilmus]

I still think the EW3 puzzle was easier than the ME2 puzzle.

[strilmus]

The strange thing is that whenever they do make something that's fun, it never gives any meaningful amount of experience, because they don't want to detract from the previous, not fun methods as though they were worth preserving.

 

However, this probably stems from the fact that people who used the previous, not fun methods would complain very loudly that they want to keep things stupid and not fun because otherwise it would detract from whatever honor they had obtained from doing it the hard way.

 

As a result, nobody uses the new thing because they don't get much exp, and they just keep using the old thing.

 

PROGRESS.

[Troacctid]

The strange thing is that whenever they do make something that's fun, it never gives any meaningful amount of experience, because they don't want to detract from the previous, not fun methods as though they were worth preserving.

 

However, this probably stems from the fact that people who used the previous, not fun methods would complain very loudly that they want to keep things stupid and not fun because otherwise it would detract from whatever honor they had obtained from doing it the hard way.

 

As a result, nobody uses the new thing because they don't get much exp, and they just keep using the old thing.

 

PROGRESS.

The Penance Horn from Barbarian Assault and the tools from Stealing Creation are good examples of using "fun" methods to get more efficient experience.

[strilmus]

I'm comparing that to the mountain of other things that nobody uses.

[xxshady]

Second article was really great for me, considering that i'm one of the biggest complainers about the insane amount of afkable/buyable content that Runescape has. Jagex has always had great fun content (Quests and certain activities) but the amount of mindless afkable content greatly outweighs it. Dungeoneering is certainly a large step forward in this regard, giving the afkable skills actual meaning other than a number in your skills tab. As the uses of Dungeoneering expand, the uses of all the mindless skills will expand by proxy, so the future looks quite bright.

 

I'm glad Stellar Dawn is doing away with XP and levels though, Jagex has always said that the mindless grinding was one of the biggest lessons they learned from Runescape that they won't repeat in Stellar Dawn.

[Melencholy]

Naturally, there are those whom describe this puzzle as being simple, straightforward, or easy. I would posit these people are egomaniacal fools who simply need to be told how smart they are. Pass them along with a little pat on the head as you laugh internally at their silly display of bravado.

 

 

:angry: calling me and hundreds of others egomaniacal fool's that needs to be told how smart they are? quite frankly that puzzle is NOT that hard once you figure it out. yes it is harder for some then others but mournings end two was far harder. and that remark is going WAY too far.

[wizardguy31]

I like both articles but I think if the writer of the second article wants his figures to be taken seriously he should have a larger sample size for his 'poll'. Twenty-Two people is nothing to base his statements on in a game with as large a community as RuneScape. Which isn't to say I don't agree with him. I just think he could distribute his poll more.

[wizardguy31]

The strange thing is that whenever they do make something that's fun, it never gives any meaningful amount of experience, because they don't want to detract from the previous, not fun methods as though they were worth preserving.

 

However, this probably stems from the fact that people who used the previous, not fun methods would complain very loudly that they want to keep things stupid and not fun because otherwise it would detract from whatever honor they had obtained from doing it the hard way.

 

As a result, nobody uses the new thing because they don't get much exp, and they just keep using the old thing.

 

PROGRESS.

The Penance Horn from Barbarian Assault and the tools from Stealing Creation are good examples of using "fun" methods to get more efficient experience.

 

Not really. Your still doing the same boring skill just getting faster xp.

 

And as an added bonus you get to do frustrating mini games (im talking mainly about BA if your not on a pro team) to get the bonus.

 

That's just your opinion. Many people (myself included) find BA fun even with a non-pro team. And I know many people who find Stealing Creation fun despite (or because of) the things that annoy me most about it. Really comes down to personal preference on what is fun and what is boring or tedious in RuneScape. I used to spend hours training Woodcutting before SC tools came out, simply chatting with people on RuneScape.

[Sir_Squab]

Naturally, there are those whom describe this puzzle as being simple, straightforward, or easy. I would posit these people are egomaniacal fools who simply need to be told how smart they are. Pass them along with a little pat on the head as you laugh internally at their silly display of bravado.

 

 

:angry: calling me and hundreds of others egomaniacal fool's that needs to be told how smart they are? quite frankly that puzzle is NOT that hard once you figure it out. yes it is harder for some then others but mournings end two was far harder. and that remark is going WAY too far.

 

Nuclear physics isn't hard once you understand it..... Frankly, once I got the hang of the puzzle it wasn't too hard, but it took me ages to figure it out.

 

Frankly, every single possible thing to do in life is easy once you know/understand how to do it. Anyways, he's referring to people who put others down because they "claim" to find something easy. I'd like to see someone to MEP2 without a guide or help from a friend and say they found it easy....I'd think a person was a liar if they said so.

 

(And yes, I think MEP2 was harder then EW3. Partly because of those stupid shadows. I did that quest WITH a guide and found it kinda hard and long. Longer then EW3.)