"If You Don't Like Me, Don't Read" <- His lordship

[British_Dan]

"I'm expecting the usual immaturity, given that my name appears on a topic.

But its OK, for every 10 flamers, there'll be one or two quality posts.

That makes posting worth it.

 

I'll keep it short... by my standards.

I got a PM from a person who can choose to name himself if he wishes.

We started talking about the decline of morals in the clan world.

 

Banter is great. I used to thrive off the Teamspeak Rant reactions.

It keeps the clan world interesting.

Goku Nazz and Samp used to talk about how clanning would just be a lame tea party if we didn't have all this tension.

Let's agree, most of us like it. Adds that dimension to the game.

 

But there is such thing as too far.

Soon we'll be marking one year since Thomasc420 (Corruption and ex-WG) committed suicide.

I'll never be sure, but I believe from the little I know, that part of his depression stemmed from clanning.

Oh and let's not forget how a certain clan prank called his family right after.

 

You've all got consciences.

You're starting to realise that this fun is becoming genuine hate.

Many of you, after a massive flame war with another clan, will leave your computers feeling angry.

DDOS, Hacking, real life insults... do these things make you happy?

 

I don't want everyone to hold hands under a rainbow and share a cake made of love...

But it's time to keep the rivalries to Runescape related stuff.

No forum or audio attacks, and ESPECIALLY no real life flaming.

 

____________________

 

Who am I to order you to do such things?

Truth be told, I'm not the strongest or most influential (reference joke).

But it is within YOUR power to talk to your leaders.

Convince them to stop encouraging forum and audio attacks.

Tell them that it should be a rule that no member of their clan should be making real life insults.

This should be a rule punishable by expulsion.

Even clans that thrive on negativity, like the most-hated clan VR, don't enjoy getting hacked and IRL insulted.

There is no honour and little respect left in the clan community, but it should ALWAYS have been a basic rule for all, that clan rivalries stay related to Runescape.

Some of you accuse me of taking the game too seriously. I turn the tables on that and say that some of you are more serious about this than I ever will be.

I don't prank call dead teenagers' families asking about drugs. I only sell T-Shirts.

Make the comparison and think about who you REALLY should be looking down on."

 

Made first by "His lordship", i personally love this post. Makes complete sence and agree with all the points made. Didn't want anyone to miss what is certainly atm a truely needed post and if His lordship wants i'll get this deleted and he can post it here.

 

But what i want to know is; Will anyone actually pay attention to this post? I personally made a post on our clan website about this kind of stuff like E-bullying etc and i'm personally enforceing this amoung our members, new things like bullying - ddosing - IRL piss taking, will get an auto-kick. I had a ddos admittably, after reading this post i've deleted it off my computer and will never even think it's a good idea to use one again, but am i the only one that took in the meaning of this topic? Or will others pay attention to it aswell?

 

Discuss.

[Shutai]

:thumbup:

 

Edit: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

 

 

Edit after reading it the third time: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

[pikin]

But yea...it's sad when gaming affects real life...Most people play RS to take a break from real life..

Nobody should be leaving their PC's/Laptops feeling depressed/victimised..

[kuru72]

I've read this on RSC. It's pretty sad tbh. Rivalries and beefs shouldn't go that far.

[Danny_TeamDan]

Make a topic, main theme of discussion is "will anybody listen to this post"

 

Sad but truthful answer:

 

Not really. Many will pretend but still jump on the bandwagon and troll and flame to keep their E friends.

 

Add more questions instead of "will anybody listen to this post"

 

Overall I think it becomes a click of people who get really close friend wise, and it only takes one to set the tone bad/negative/flamer/troll to ruin the others. I've seen it with some TWR clans and them crashing with NHF etc.

 

I've participated in it before but I try to keep myself away from it, honestly I bet all of us do but it's hard to break bad habits, especially when all your "Friends" are doing it. Also when the other side retaliates it becomes the oh i have to be the alpha male and not back down thing so it just keeps growing.

[zq50]

Hacking and Ddosing is for people who know that there clan is dead and they need to do it so they either win fights, or to make some one completely depressed so that they have 0 gp on their account.

Example of hacking:

 

This kid had something very special to him, A godsword. Even though it was supposed to be for revenge, He was depressed and since hes like 8 hes probably still crying right now.

 

And they suicide of the corruption member thomasc420 is example of irl making fun of.

 

People may not have seen this side of me before but if something gets THIS bad. I try to change peopls mind about this.

[CruelKiller]

tbh this really got to my heart..

and i really agree whats the point of playing a game if when you get out of the pc you feel angry,mad and sad..

[Abkb24]

I just ignore flames lol and if they bother you do the same.

 

Edit: Good topic :thumbsup:

Edited June 7, 2010 by Abkb24

[HAR]

Saw his original post and to answer your question if people will react, I think they might only if the correct ... "encouragement" is given. Rivalries should have always been kept in the game, maybe on War topics because HL said, it keeps things interesting, to a degree. Thats fine until people start taking things far too seriously and started DDOSing and actually going out of their way to maliciously attack people/clans over a game.

 

Just read an RSC UN topic about more recent DDOSing and VR leaders seem to be getting as fed up as everyone else is of all the DDOSing. The point was being made that if you find even just a few of these responsible individuals and report them, word of visits from the police would very quickly spread around the place and we might even see the whole act come to a stop. That is providing that all parties honestly want this all to stop and are willing to go the distance to make an example of one or two of the culprits to show the rest that action, not necessarily will, but at least CAN be taken if the issue is raised to an annoyance rather than mere drama seeking acts.

[20Rice04]

If anyone in our clan took stuff too far I know for a fact that our officials would 'dishonourably discharge' them :P

 

Tbh you're always going to have people who take games too seriously and get caught up in them, it's probably because their own lives are either too stressful, pathetic or 'difficult' for them to bear- so they turn to internet escapism rather than a therapist.

 

The internet would be a better place without these people, but it aint gonna happen.

[obfuscator]

:thumbup:

 

Edit: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

 

 

Edit after reading it the third time: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

Can't say it much better than this.

 

People need to look at things in perspective and realize that, no matter how passionate they may be, this is just a game. It's a pity some people can't leave things where they belong.

[Mister_T]

Huh

[_Douglas]

Basically, yeah. The fun part of warring and pking is to find out what you've got and what your opponent has got. To do that, both clans need to be fighting at their full capacity. I can't see how a person could feel any sense of clan pride after defeating someone who was already crippled.

[HisLordship]

Thank you very much for posting this.

I'm quite flattered you decided to copy it.

 

The reason I didn't post this on Tip.it, is because in general I think the Tip.it people already know what I had to say.

As a general rule, you're more respectful and I took it for granted that you had this basic code of honour.

RSC on the other hand, is a mess.

 

EDIT: Also massive respect to the topic maker for actually following through with the post in his own clan. It makes all the difference and the change happens one clan at a time until it becomes commonplace.

[Sentry_Wolf]

Not being from the warring clan world, I still have to say well done on that Post Lordship. I wasn't aware of the incident that took place last year, and seriously :mellow: on my face in real life. Rather disgusting people have that much respect for others not even mentioning the fact how tragically on how they took their own life.

 

Hope it does some good and makes people think twice...

[LightSpeedPk]

Removed deleted post quote.

 

not gona lie i LOL'd at this.

 

but yeah i try to stay away from those sort of clans that ddos etc. Kinda makes me think what will happen at runefest since there is quite a large ammount of hate towards other clans

Edited June 9, 2010 by lady_ninane

[Krist115]

+1k x infinity, i completly agree with this now that i hear that people prank called the family of a dead teenager is just horrible.... i think if for example if i died and some idiot phoned my parents like that, idk it makes me feel sick inside, how a person can do that. It is quite terrible. Does this post do anything, HIs Lordship you are now my hero :thumbup:

 

i think this should be applied

[The Observer]

Looking at things in perspective, it's not something that can be done. It's wishful and kind thinking but yes, it's not going to happen.

 

Look on the world stage and compare it to nuclear weapon nonproliferation. I'm sure millions of people around the world would like to see a day when there are no nuclear weapons present on the Earth. However, countries who have nuclear weapons don't get rid of them. The consequences of this is obvious: one wrong move and it could move into a global thermonuclear war which could mean the annihilation of a large percentage of the human & animal population.

 

In this game, it could never turn into a "global" problem obviously, but I used that analogy to show how it's just not going to happen and with yes, consequences that can be serious (but to a smaller area of range of course). Everyone knows it's wrong to do these things, but they do it anyway because this is the internet. There are no borders, no filters, and no consequences that would prevent all of this from happening. From personal experience, rivalries do go far, and it does turn into ddosing and obvious flaming because they hate each other. It's not exactly a "friendly" rivalry. Once again, it happens because it can happen. Ever notice how everyone seems so much braver on the internet? It's because there are absolutely zero consequences for a person's actions because chances are you are miles away from the other person, and the only way to retaliate? Ddosing or flaming are some examples.

 

Let's look at Kohlberg's theory of moral development. At the bottom of the scale it consists of psychological development at a preconventional level. At this level, all actions are based on a punishment/reward system. Fortunately, most of us grow out of this stage once we reach the age of 13 and above. Still, this could apply to some people, and because there are no punishments (only rewards) by doing this, it would be obvious to see what intentions would be performed. The next level conventional is what most people are at in this world. It refers to social conformity and law and order. Clearly if a lot of people in a clan flame/ddos, at this level you might want to as well, and since there are no laws to govern any actions you do, there would be no law to follow, so the whole morality behind it has dissolved. The final level is postconventional. This is a rare trait seen by few people around the world. It refers to a more social contract-minded person and someone with universal ethical principles. If you are at this level, the whole idea of ddosing/flaming becomes something that you would see as improper, and it would simply not be an action you would perform. However, as I said this is a very rare trait and if I were to name someone to have this, it would have to be someone such as Jesus (I'm not religious, I'm just making a point.) My point with all of this? It shows how we are structured to fail at what you are asking.

 

To add to my previous point, what His Lordship stated could work in theory, but it would never happen because there are no "real" consequences that can arise. Police don't care about small internet forums being ddosed. They are busy looking for rapists, murderers, child porn distributors and more. Leaders in most larger clans would not enforce these because it would become unappealing to the members who prefer a more laid back environment.

 

The whole idea behind this is wonderful and all, but it's never going to happen. This is the internet. People will do whatever they want whenever they want. Trying to police that is just absurd and a wasted effort. I give you a cheers for the attempt though.

[TeamDan_danbadgy]

Well said His Lordship, I have great respect after reading this. If only your philosophy could reach out to those who do what's wrong.

 

But what Killerred said... Sadly things like this can't be completely dealt with.

[DFWILL]

Thank you very much for posting this.

I'm quite flattered you decided to copy it.

 

The reason I didn't post this on Tip.it, is because in general I think the Tip.it people already know what I had to say.

As a general rule, you're more respectful and I took it for granted that you had this basic code of honour.

RSC on the other hand, is a mess.

 

EDIT: Also massive respect to the topic maker for actually following through with the post in his own clan. It makes all the difference and the change happens one clan at a time until it becomes commonplace.

yea i would have to agree... tip.it is much cleaner than rsc... the amount of ddos'ing and hacking is pretty minimal among tip.it clans it seems. Hopefully some people take this to heart.. some arguing and debate is fine... however, when personal real life threats are made... thats when it has gone to far.

[Nobody]

Some people need to realize Runescape, clans it's all a part of a game. If you have trouble separating reality from Runescape you should seek professional help. Games were never meant to be a part of your real life. Rivalries should stay in Runescape, where they started and where they should end.

[obfuscator]

Looking at things in perspective, it's not something that can be done. It's wishful and kind thinking but yes, it's not going to happen.

 

Look on the world stage and compare it to nuclear weapon nonproliferation. I'm sure millions of people around the world would like to see a day when there are no nuclear weapons present on the Earth. However, countries who have nuclear weapons don't get rid of them. The consequences of this is obvious: one wrong move and it could move into a global thermonuclear war which could mean the annihilation of a large percentage of the human & animal population.

 

Nuclear weapons are really only used for purposes of intimidation. The problem is that with mutually assured destruction, only someone in the most desperate of circumstances would approve the usage of these things.

 

In this game, it could never turn into a "global" problem obviously, but I used that analogy to show how it's just not going to happen and with yes, consequences that can be serious (but to a smaller area of range of course). Everyone knows it's wrong to do these things, but they do it anyway because this is the internet. There are no borders, no filters, and no consequences that would prevent all of this from happening. From personal experience, rivalries do go far, and it does turn into ddosing and obvious flaming because they hate each other. It's not exactly a "friendly" rivalry. Once again, it happens because it can happen. Ever notice how everyone seems so much braver on the internet? It's because there are absolutely zero consequences for a person's actions because chances are you are miles away from the other person, and the only way to retaliate? Ddosing or flaming are some examples.

 

But here is where the onus is on clan leaders to make actions have consequences. While as a whole it could be unpopular I feel it's impossible to shrug it off as something that could never be done. I'll use SE as an example; obviously there was no "perfect rule", where any flamer would be instantly kicked, but certain things (such as hacking and ddosing) were discouraged to the point they were practically nonexistent. SE not only succeeded as a clan, but even excelled despite disallowing (for the most part) the behaviors which sadly permeate the top clan world these days.

 

Let's look at Kohlberg's theory of moral development. At the bottom of the scale it consists of psychological development at a preconventional level. At this level, all actions are based on a punishment/reward system. Fortunately, most of us grow out of this stage once we reach the age of 13 and above. Still, this could apply to some people, and because there are no punishments (only rewards) by doing this, it would be obvious to see what intentions would be performed. The next level conventional is what most people are at in this world. It refers to social conformity and law and order. Clearly if a lot of people in a clan flame/ddos, at this level you might want to as well, and since there are no laws to govern any actions you do, there would be no law to follow, so the whole morality behind it has dissolved. The final level is postconventional. This is a rare trait seen by few people around the world. It refers to a more social contract-minded person and someone with universal ethical principles. If you are at this level, the whole idea of ddosing/flaming becomes something that you would see as improper, and it would simply not be an action you would perform. However, as I said this is a very rare trait and if I were to name someone to have this, it would have to be someone such as Jesus (I'm not religious, I'm just making a point.) My point with all of this? It shows how we are structured to fail at what you are asking.

 

To add to my previous point, what His Lordship stated could work in theory, but it would never happen because there are no "real" consequences that can arise. Police don't care about small internet forums being ddosed. They are busy looking for rapists, murderers, child porn distributors and more. Leaders in most larger clans would not enforce these because it would become unappealing to the members who prefer a more laid back environment.

 

The whole idea behind this is wonderful and all, but it's never going to happen. This is the internet. People will do whatever they want whenever they want. Trying to police that is just absurd and a wasted effort. I give you a cheers for the attempt though.

 

My point is that there "are" real consequences. No, the police will never come onto internet forums and hand out fines and charges to those perpetrating flames and ddossing forums (although it has happened in rare cases).

 

The punishment must fit the crime, and once again this is where the onus is on the clan leaders to make it happen. There are several reasons that members of the clan community go around and do these things. Firstly, it's to have fun, they find some sick enjoyment out of putting down others. In other words, bullying gone nuclear. The second reason, and one that I believe may be even more critical is because they care about their clan. There aren't many things that can discourage someone from behaving badly on the internet, but a so called process of "taking the internet away" would work. I find it hard to believe that those VR members who have been in VR for 2+ years would continue to participate in the irl flames and ddos attacks were VRs leadership to institute a zero tolerance policy and kick any found committing those transgressions. Hit them where it hurts, so to speak, and the clan leaders are the ones with the power to make this happen.

[20Rice04]

There aren't many things that can discourage someone from behaving badly on the internet, but a so called process of "taking the internet away" would work. I find it hard to believe that those VR members who have been in VR for 2+ years would continue to participate in the irl flames and ddos attacks were VRs leadership to institute a zero tolerance policy and kick any found committing those transgressions. Hit them where it hurts, so to speak, and the clan leaders are the ones with the power to make this happen.

 

Agreed, but, and this is a VERY BIG BUT, most clan leaders are probably too scared of losing masses of their members should they institute such a policy. They are unwilling to risk being unpopular because it'll probably lead to them and their TS, forums etc being DoS'd by the people they kicked out AND it breeds instability in the clan, which could go on to result in a mass leave. Imagine Divine Forces put this into action and 50% of the leavers/kicked joined VR, that'd put them in a very awkward position.

 

If this is the case then the Leaders no longer have their clans best interests at heart, and are no longer fit to lead. If you're members wont follow your rules and just bail on you when things start to go pear shaped, rather than sticking it out through the tough times, then they're not members worth having. If this is true for your clan you should start looking at where it all went wrong and try and rectify it.

[Amateurnoob]

Clan world sucks tbh, every clan is guilty of it in all honesty,

 

A few days ago, I had a 5 man ac unit at a AA vs CR fight at like 2 in the morning, EOS warlord was there sniping CR, we got on him and after chasing him down to Mossies he continued to say how bad we suck, how he was going to crash every one of our pvp wars, and how he was going to Brute Force our forums, now if that's coming from and EOS warlord and he's making threats against a non top 10 clan like that, there's got to be more to it than just the game, they must have some serious issues inrl to have to feel the need to be a e-thug. It's simple really, kids that ddos, dos, hack, flame, whatever have a [cabbage] real life and need to make themselves feel better on the net. It's cool though just ignore them. Clan world is nothing more than us idiots creating beef for the stupidest reasons, we're all guilty of it, and only you as an individual can step up and say nah this isn't right, simple as that.

[19jacksparow]

yeah, some people are taking something that is supposed to be fun to a whole new level.