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Tip.It Times - 27th June 2010


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#41
Sir_Squab
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First, I'm sad to hear you say that the quality of the times has gone downhill and, interestingly enough, it is actually talked about in TS_Stormrage's accompanying article.

I was well aware that there was the possibility of fakes flying around so that's why I said that they were 'rumours' of such large amounts. At the time this was written, the day of the event, there had been no poof that any of the supposed screenshots were fake. I'm sure you can appreciate that an article has to be written earlier on in the week than Sunday afternoon. I'm afraid this is an issue with almost all publications.

Also a viable solution to the problem would have been to rollback immediately, however that is obviously not viable now. And, once the money is in the game, the damage has been done. There was a window of opportunity for Jagex to reverse this but that went past very quickly.

Also: only 45m? I hope you realise that the Tip.It forums are not representative of the whole Runescape population. There are a LOT more players out there that have never ever come near 45m in their entire Runescape lives. While that sort of money might be common on Tip.It - for an average player it is a lot of money and comes off as extremely unfair. Why am I having to work hard to make enough money for a set of Infinity robes when somebody just got enough money for four sets by doing absolutely nothing. As I mentioned in the article, this unfairness is what TRULY makes this a very bad update.

I'd like to see your figures that more money comes in through statuettes. Jagex are trying to downplay the fact that they made a big mistake. People who know me will know it isn't common for me to criticise Jagex, but this is clearly a very big mistake that they made. Not just in terms of the economy, which isn't the most important thing here, but in terms of player trust and integrity.

Less than 100 people in a population of 135million+ RS players got 45m each is not a lot at all. Jagex made a mistake but it is neither worth a roll back nor any kind of panic. Those that gained money simply won a small lottery that will be erased within a week due to the influx of gp elsewhere. If you want to know how much money comes in from pvp, go to w137 bh crater and look at how bit the 76king population is, then go to +1 worlds and look at the edgeville rune pking population, finally taking into account that ROT, AF, Brut, DB, RP along with other pvp clans as well as JAJA and Welfarers from public pvp ccs are all getting statues and you'll figure out roughly how much gp is being generated on a per hour basis. I would say 100m/hr net being generated in pvp would still be a lower estimate.

Things people should be focusing on: The fact that GE mechanics does not allow Phats to EVER reach their true value. Merch clans are able to cause inconvenience to the population. (Both of above can be solved by more frequent GE updates incidentally) Those are honestly the 2 biggest problems that's within RS atm.


Hehehe your funny. P hats are not a problem imo, because, simply, it affects less then 1% of RS. Merch clans are, I guess, a problem...incidently, one which I don't think more frequent GE problems will solve. And honestly, same with p hats. But this isn't the place to discuss fixing the GE.




Also a viable solution to the problem would have been to rollback immediately, however that is obviously not viable now. And, once the money is in the game, the damage has been done. There was a window of opportunity for Jagex to reverse this but that went past very quickly.



why on earth would Jagex want to roll-back on a designed effect. They wanted the climbing boots to have a higher alch value than d and rune boots. They weren't worried about the amount of cash entering the game.

The only thing they would like to rollback is the overreaction of some and that cannot be done anyway. Because you have a personal problem with an update it doesn't mean the update didn't do what it was meant to do. For Jagex this update was probably successful were it not for the fact that people blew up. Which they probably didn't see coming because they know a little bit more about the runecape economy than we do. They weren't worried about the big picture. They just underestimated the gut reaction and jealousy of many.

How can you predict irrational thought? Well, it is really difficult. They probably would need a dedicated team of psychologists to just get a hint of what may set the community off.

When I heard first about the update I thought nothing of it, and that actually hasn't changed. But for some it is apparently really a difficult thing to process the fact that some people might have gotten rich over an update. And then the speculation started on inflation and some people saw an opportunity here.

---

No honestly, there was no rollback possible because there was no error or mistake in the design of the update. There was just a miscalculation of the human element, part of the community overreacted. And nobody can rollback a human mind.

I know this is all speculative writing on the part of every poster on this article, but how do you know that Jagex really achieved what they were intending with this? Personally I find that it is all too easy these days to believe that Jagex simply did not intend the end result because they did not do sufficient research. There was no reason to make THIS change, that is the problem. 75k, or even 45k for the alchs, is a completely unreasonable price considering the ACTUAL market that existed for the boots. That is my problem with this update. It hasn't made or lost me any money at all, I just dislike the "If it isn't broken, we're not trying hard enough" approach that Jagex seem to be implementing at the moment. Nobody cared that climbing boots could achieve a 1700% price hike from Sherpa to G.E., that was the way the economy for those boots had functioned for years. To waste developer time on a fix that didn't need to happen makes me wonder exactly what Jagex were thinking.

What exactly is irrational about the logic laid out in my previous post? If you can explain that, I may perhaps understand your point, but at present I can't help but be a little suspicious that perhaps you did very nicely out of the recent update and therefore are keen to defend it.


They "fixed" it because it people paid a cheap amount of money for decent boots. Jagex didn't want people to pay a cheap amount to get boots of that quality.

And honestly, inflation obviously didn't happen if you looked at the prices. That leaves jealousy that some people made money when *you* didn't. Way I see it, it's no different then if these people went to barrows or GW and got a great drop there. People who object to some people making a small fortune on this are, in all honesty, probably just jealous that they didn't get their piece of the pie, no offense.

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#42
coolkorsah1
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The first article, I agree with the other responses. It is unfair for the few players who supposedly have thousands of climbing boots to suddenly become grossly rich from an update.
But, I have doubts that any one player had thousands of climbing boots. Maybe a few hundred.

As for a rollback, I thought of this: Is it really fair for Jagex to punish, probably under 50 players who got super rich so the rest of us consider it fair?

I do not know a lot about computer programming, but I would guess a rollback would take some serious effort. A rollback to punish the very few who may be super rich now, just to appease the hundreds of thousands.

I say, yes it does suck that I couldn't get rich too, but just move on. They got lucky

Second article

I definetly understand the plight of writing articles. I write for examiner.com and it can get difficult to keep coming up with new material every week.


----------------

Unless the player actually know the update was going to happen, they shouldn't be punish. They didn't know what will happen and how the boots change.

#43
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Well i have a pure named 2nd damage and i had maybe 50 boots. I refuse to alch them or do anything with them cause of how ridiculous this update was and how after i think i can call my self a rs vet (since yoyo) there have been 2 significant other updates that i despised these though were needed in some sense the trade update was needed for sure and the other one the change to pest control which each sparked huge revolts but were necessary and after getting over my intial anger from these i realized how important it was to make the game fair. But this, this is just flat out ridiculous jagex in the past has been like gods hand controlling fairness in this game which in my opinion has done a great job since it first started way back in 2001. but not in this update making these boots jump to 45k an alch is the worst update that jagex has ever ever done. worse in sense as it allowed people to earn millions of gp in no time at all and as a mercher i dont really care about the whole impact on the ge prices as lets say it introduced say 4 trillion gp or so maybe less stop and think about a few things... 76trick, real earned pvp drops, boss drops siglies and such, normal drops, all this is introudced each day and now that we are about to reach prime play time for most people that play rs ( northern hemispheres summer) we will witness a substantial increase in all prices but that is just the annual increase as people begin to play more, this does not get me mad. What really pisses me off is how long i worked in order to make my cash on my main magicsetter who had about 300m and yoyo and all that jazz but this took lets see hmm 6 years... this is just obsurd people could have played for say 6 months and have more money than i have made in 6 years from around 750ish alchs. oh and i heard another thing thats been getting me really upset if its true seeing as jagex has alot of its employees that play this game they updated the price in order for account to make cash which is just ridiculous they go all on about price manpulation and how scamming is bad and all and boom what do they do change a price for boots that should be like 200gp to 75k and there reasoning "these accounts have had the ability to make this amount of cash we just made it easier for them" i dont know about you guys but since i mainly use my pure and buy boots i have never NEVER seen anyone sell boots for more than 25k and thats just for one pair for a desperate match. it should be 7.5 k which is an understandable price not 75k just too much.
~~DYMEDEF~~

#44
murtagah8
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First article I won't bother saying much about, simply because it's already been talked to death.

As for the second article one line I particularly enjoyed was "sometimes what gets published is no more than an elaborated brainfart on a vuvuzela." Thank you for that. With all of the depressing talk about climbing boots that line just about made my day. :thumbsup:

#45
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Well, since there's nothing I can do about the update, other than stop playing the game (And I won't) I'm not going to complain. I will offer a speculation. My theory is that the people who made the money are being given a gift from Jagex. I'm a cynic, and I'm sure people will not agree with me and will sling darts at this post, but I don't care. I think Jagex wanted to give something nice to a few players, so they did. Maybe one day I'll be lucky enough to be one of those folks who get accidentally included in a big gift like this.
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#46
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I refuse to read Racheya's articles for various literary reasons.

2nd one was a nice personal piece.

BTW: I have an idea for a Times piece I'd like to write. Who do I get in touch with?


I personally saw nothing in the article to criticize her writing skills.

Hahahahahaha. Okay seriously this was too easy, if you say "I" at the beginning of a sentence, you don't need to put "personally" before the verb you are using. When using first person we already know that whatever you say, see, etc. is going be yours.

I personally believe you have no English skills ;)

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#47
Ts_Stormrage
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And you sir, are one of the annoying nitpickers I talk about in my article, and therefor your criticism is often ignored :D

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#48
stonewall337
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And you sir, are one of the annoying nitpickers I talk about in my article, and therefor your criticism is often ignored :D

I thought you wanted criticism...

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#49
Range_This11
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And you sir, are one of the annoying nitpickers I talk about in my article, and therefor your criticism is often ignored :D

I was not nitpicking anything about the articles. I was poking fun at the person who said there was nothing grammatically or stylisticly wrong with Racheya's article and made one of the most glaring mistakes in writing in the process haha. Honestly, I liked your article even though I don't typically read many of them anymore.

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#50
coffeesloth
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I refuse to read Racheya's articles for various literary reasons.

2nd one was a nice personal piece.

BTW: I have an idea for a Times piece I'd like to write. Who do I get in touch with?


I personally saw nothing in the article to criticize her writing skills.

Hahahahahaha. Okay seriously this was too easy, if you say "I" at the beginning of a sentence, you don't need to put "personally" before the verb you are using. When using first person we already know that whatever you say, see, etc. is going be yours.

I personally believe you have no English skills ;)


Adding the word "personally" indicates for whom the writer is speaking. Simply saying "I" is inconclusive. The writer could have been saying "I, as a member of the Supreme Court of the United States of America" or "I, as a woman," or any of a thousand thousand other possible combinations.

While people are tearing apart spelling and grammar and such, can anyone tell me why the spellcheck is flagging "combinations" above? As far as I know, I am using the word properly; I don't know what's wrong.
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#51
Range_This11
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Adding the word "personally" indicates for whom the writer is speaking. Simply saying "I" is inconclusive. The writer could have been saying "I, as a member of the Supreme Court of the United States of America" or "I, as a woman," or any of a thousand thousand other possible combinations.

If you use "I" you already are telling the reader for whom you are speaking. Anything else is irrelevant, it's just wrong.

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"He could climb to it, if he climbed alone, and once there he could suck on the pap of life, gulp down the incomparable milk of wonder."


#52
waheera1
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They "fixed" it because it people paid a cheap amount of money for decent boots. Jagex didn't want people to pay a cheap amount to get boots of that quality.

And honestly, inflation obviously didn't happen if you looked at the prices. That leaves jealousy that some people made money when *you* didn't. Way I see it, it's no different then if these people went to barrows or GW and got a great drop there. People who object to some people making a small fortune on this are, in all honesty, probably just jealous that they didn't get their piece of the pie, no offense.

Well, if you say so... But that wasn't the stated reason Jagex gave with the update. If they're now saying that's the reason then they really should think things through before doing them so that they actually know why they're performing an update and can be honest with us from the start. As far as I (and pretty much everyone else I know) can make out, there was nothing wrong with the system as it existed. Nobody actually used the boots in place of dragon/rune/addy boots etc on a regular basis outside some very rarefied occasions, so it was all entirely unnecessary.

I don't believe you can accurately predict the impact of any one event on the Runescape economy after so little time and with a complete lack of data. All we (you and I both) have are assumptions. I'm willing to make an educated guess which seems to support the blindingly obvious fact that an influx of billions of gp WILL have an effect of some kind on the economy regardless of how small that shift may be, especially when compared to the daily impact of overpriced pvp drops and the like.

Range_This11
Hahahahahaha. Okay seriously this was too easy, if you say "I" at the beginning of a sentence, you don't need to put "personally" before the verb you are using. When using first person we already know that whatever you say, see, etc. is going be yours.
I personally believe you have no English skills


Does your ego feel better for that?

Dymedef
Well i have a pure named 2nd damage and i had maybe 50 boots. I refuse to alch them or do anything with them cause of how ridiculous this update was and how after i think i can call my self a rs vet (since yoyo) there have been 2 significant other updates that i despised these though were needed in some sense the trade update was needed for sure and the other one the change to pest control which each sparked huge revolts but were necessary and after getting over my intial anger from these i realized how important it was to make the game fair. But this, this is just flat out ridiculous jagex in the past has been like gods hand controlling fairness in this game which in my opinion has done a great job since it first started way back in 2001. but not in this update making these boots jump to 45k an alch is the worst update that jagex has ever ever done. worse in sense as it allowed people to earn millions of gp in no time at all and as a mercher i dont really care about the whole impact on the ge prices as lets say it introduced say 4 trillion gp or so maybe less stop and think about a few things... 76trick, real earned pvp drops, boss drops siglies and such, normal drops, all this is introudced each day and now that we are about to reach prime play time for most people that play rs ( northern hemispheres summer) we will witness a substantial increase in all prices but that is just the annual increase as people begin to play more, this does not get me mad. What really pisses me off is how long i worked in order to make my cash on my main magicsetter who had about 300m and yoyo and all that jazz but this took lets see hmm 6 years... this is just obsurd people could have played for say 6 months and have more money than i have made in 6 years from around 750ish alchs. oh and i heard another thing thats been getting me really upset if its true seeing as jagex has alot of its employees that play this game they updated the price in order for account to make cash which is just ridiculous they go all on about price manpulation and how scamming is bad and all and boom what do they do change a price for boots that should be like 200gp to 75k and there reasoning "these accounts have had the ability to make this amount of cash we just made it easier for them" i dont know about you guys but since i mainly use my pure and buy boots i have never NEVER seen anyone sell boots for more than 25k and thats just for one pair for a desperate match. it should be 7.5 k which is an understandable price not 75k just too much.
~~DYMEDEF~~


If you actually want anyone to read that, might I suggest you become re-acquainted with your 'enter' key at the very least.

#53
Dire_Wolf
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I think one person noticed the cheap price of Climbing boots and thought "WTF this is to cheap!", changes the price, community goes crazy and Jagex later gives the excuse the person responisble thought.

Now my problem with that is:
Why did only climbing boots get changed?

And what the point of Climbing boots? We had to do a quest for it.

And of course:
Who will buy climbing boots now. It's basically a useless item.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

CLIMBING BOOTS:
+2 Strength bonus
Costs 75,000


RUNE BOOTS:
+2 Strength bonus
+12 Stab defence, 13 Slash defence, 14 Crush defence, +10 Summon defence
Costs 102,000

PRICE DIFFERENCE:
27,000
A price enough to pay for Rune boots good defence stats.

RESULT OF THIS CRAP
Another item [bleep]ed up and now useless.


WHAT JAGEX WILL DO?
Take down price of Climbing boots to somewhere between 10,000 GP to 30,000 GP

#54
Ts_Stormrage
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And you sir, are one of the annoying nitpickers I talk about in my article, and therefor your criticism is often ignored :D

I thought you wanted criticism...

I do :) but if people focus on the grammar and spelling, instead of the message the article brings, then you're not going to convince me you've read the article the way it was meant :)

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#55
coffeesloth
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Adding the word "personally" indicates for whom the writer is speaking. Simply saying "I" is inconclusive. The writer could have been saying "I, as a member of the Supreme Court of the United States of America" or "I, as a woman," or any of a thousand thousand other possible combinations.

If you use "I" you already are telling the reader for whom you are speaking. Anything else is irrelevant, it's just wrong.


Explain, then, how both these sentences are true and how you would clarify them, if at all. They are both the same speaker and used in the same paragraph.

" I, ________, wouldn't urinate on Paul Reiser if he was on fire."

"I, ________, would work to keep Paul Reiser alive using all means available to me."

You just don't like adverbs, is that it?
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#56
Dire_Wolf
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And you sir, are one of the annoying nitpickers I talk about in my article, and therefor your criticism is often ignored :D

I thought you wanted criticism...

I do :) but if people focus on the grammar and spelling, instead of the message the article brings, then you're not going to convince me you've read the article the way it was meant :)

I agree with TS. Unless the article's grammar and spelling is terrible, noone should complain much. The articles are supposed to bring discussion on issues with Jagex, not on grammar and spelling.

Like i have said, Rachyas article sums up what we already know, so i found it boring.

Oh and if anyone want to grammar/spell check my writing, PLEASE DO. I appreciate the critism!

#57
coffeesloth
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Oh and if anyone want to grammar/spell check my writing, PLEASE DO. I appreciate the critism!



First, sorry if I got the quote part wrong, I think I did it correctly. Second, I'll see if I can get my wife to look over your stuff. She's a professional transcriptionist and really knows her spelling and grammar. Why do you think I never ever use the often accepted abbreviations? I'd get in trouble!! I'll have to try to talk her into it, she knows nothing about Runescape, and so has little interest.
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#58
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Random note, wasn't sure where this should go but...

"...that if you have your varrock teleport setting for the G.E, that anyone using your house portal will also be teleported to the G.E.? (Thanks to joerlegacy!)"

That DYK is repeated twice on the DYK archives, thought that should be noted.

Sorry if this doesn't belong here!




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