Nationality & Belonging to a country

[dsavi]

Long background story short: I'm American, I moved to Finland when I was seven. I struggled with Finnish (Still do) and learned Swedish fluently, I go to school in Swedish.

 

So recently I applied for Finnish citizenship now that I qualify for it, and it and the fact that the fourth of July is coming up got me thinking. When I go back to the US to visit my relatives, I feel like a Finnish tourist that knows everything. Then I get back to Finland and feel like a "loud, wasteful" American.

Then I get settled for a while and don't feel like either. I just am. I don't feel patriotic to America or Finland, although I do recognize that a lot of work went into the independence of both. I don't feel like a citizen of either country (I'm assuming I'll get Finnish citizenship because there's really no reason for them to reject it), I will just have papers that give me the rights and responsibilities of a citizen of both countries. So whenever anyone gets really patriotic about either country, especially America as I feel somehow obligated to be patriotic because I was born there and everything, it gets kind of awkward for me.

My point is mostly that I never feel like I belong to a country, I'm kind of in limbo. Now that's all well and good, but I also feel that I would like to feel I belong somewhere, I couldn't really tell you why. I'm wondering what other people think of this, and is there anyone else that feels similarly? Also, if you do feel like you belong somewhere, could you explain why?

[DerekZoolandah]

I never was particularily fond of patriotism and nationalism. All it is is land. Why get worked up over it? However, I can see how many enjoy the unity of saying "I am a member of x!"

 

A lot of my family decides that, since they are Americans, they must love America to death, and believe that it cannot do wrong. That is my only hangup about patriotism - it occasionally leads a person to think that they are superior because they are from that country.

[Omar]

Now that's all well and good, but I also feel that I would like to feel I belong somewhere, I couldn't really tell you why.

 

Humans need to feel a sense of belonging and acceptance, whether it comes from a large social group, such as clubs, office culture, religious groups, professional organizations, sports teams, gangs, or small social connections (family members, intimate partners, mentors, close colleagues, confidants). They need to love and be loved (sexually and non-sexually) by others. In the absence of these elements, many people become susceptible to loneliness, social anxiety, and clinical depression. This need for belonging can often overcome the physiological and security needs, depending on the strength of the peer pressure; an anorexic, for example, may ignore the need to eat and the security of health for a feeling of control and belonging.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow%27s_hierarchy_of_needs#Love_and_Belonging

 

I suppose that the more you belong to other groups such as those mentioned above, the less one feels the need to belong to their country. I'm in the same situation as you; I was born in Morocco, I moved to France two years later, I moved back to Morocco after 4 years, then to Germany for 2 years, and then to Canada. I think the latter is where most of my identity has been formed, and yet I still don't fully belong with a group of people who have lived around here forever -- if you make a reference to Sesame Street, I won't get it, because I didn't watch that show (and whenever I did, it was in French). Sometimes I think I'm a very poor Moroccan, but there's no helping it and I can't really blame myself for it.

 

The only reason I see for people being patriotic is being thankful for what your country has given you, and giving back to your country. Being patriotic isn't about shouting your love for your country; it's about loving it.

[fakeitormakeit2]

Well I live in America but I have a strong allegiance to my culture. I've never liked patriotism or nationalism for various reasons, but I do find the embracing of one's culture is important to the fabric of communities within larger society. I find patriotism to be extremely similar to nationalism and they lead to bad results, such as the idea of racial/national supremacy and an "us- versus-them" mentality. I'm Middle Eastern and its very interesting because all Middle Eastern people who embrace their culture to any degree seem to mix really well together, no matter what country they're from. I don't feel like Middle Eastern people are superior, we just meld well because of similarities I presume. Belonging to Arab American society I don't have the need to have patriotism for the United States, but I am grateful for what I have here and I would like to assist America and help those in need as much as I can, but that's more out of helping people in general and not specifically America. I have never understood the militant patriotism taught in the United States which leads to people thinking the government is infallible.

[weezcake]

Story of my life.

 

Being Chinese-American, my parents were great at teaching Chinese mannerisms and culture. I understand most of the customs, speak the language, and do things differently than they would be done in America. However, although both of my parents are Chinese, I was born in America. I love my heritage and culture, but obviously, I live within American culture. The two often conflict, especially when I was young and didn't know any better. I've grown up, explored this hybrid identity, and have figured out that I'm lucky - I get to choose what I like best about both cultures. Don't feel like you have to be forced to "be" American or "be" Finnish. You are.. you. Don't label yourself like that.

 

And like you, I have the same struggle with nationalism/patriotism. Never once have I ever felt a strong allegiance for the USA. I've never felt the need to root for the US in world sports. In the end, I am ultimately American. And as fakeitormakeit2 said, nationalism can be a good thing, but overdone, it can lead to disastrous results.

 

A sense of identity as a Chinese-American took me all four years in college to finally figure out (through community work and education) but you'll get it eventually. Just label yourself and you'll be fine. :)

[Danqazmlp]

I think it depends where you come from. If you come from somewhere you know you can be proud of and can identify, then you will probably feel much more patriotic. Personally, being British and a history lover, I feel very proud of my countries rich history and it gives a great feeling when for example in sports it shows your countries strength.

[GottaGetDownOnfriday]

I feel like I belong in Europe. When I first went there, I felt more attached to everything then I have in America. I have a few relatives in London so I have some ties with Europe.

[Racheya]

I don't think that England is the greatest country in the world. I think that we have crap loads of problems and a LOT of issues to deal with, especially in Government, but I am very fond of England and the UK as a whole. Yet, despite how much I may hate my country sometimes, I'm very proud to be British. It's the mentality where I can say whatever I want about my country, I can point out all it's flaws and call the Prime Minister a spade, but if someone from ANOTHER country comes along and tries... then I will defend the UK to the teeth.

 

I think this is quite a popular feeling and one that was exemplified when many right-wing Americans took a swing at our NHS as an example of how social healthcare would 'fail'. We all, at one point in our lives, have complained about the NHS. Bloody waiting times, bloody crap doctors, never get a bloody appointment... but when our NHS was insulted, we came out in droves to defend it because, despite all it's problems, it's something we love. Just like our country.

[Perakp]

I feel that my "identity" is more european than Finnish. Like there isn't much to be bonded to here in Finland other than the nature. The people in Finland are american, the values/ norms of society are more european than finnish by their origin. I wouldn't mind if Finland and Sweden merged into one country, that's how nationalist I am.

[obfuscator]

Basically the same as Racheya, while I'm definitely proud to be Canadian, it doesn't make me better than anyone else, and Canada is certainly far from perfect.

[OldJoe]

Hm, i wouldn't classify myself as patriot or nationalist. Technically i'm not 100% Swedish (German/Danish ancestors 100 years back). I would defend my country til death, if it was for the right cause.

But i feel a bit iffy about Sweden, so much has changed for the worse since the 60/70's... But more rapidly since 2000. But that's going into politics, which belong in another thread or in pm.

I can say that i won't be living here at 30, since i think the country is going in the drain.

There's so much anti-Swedish going on this country that i've just completely lost hope to be honest, even our current head of state walks around saying "the only truly Swedish thing is barbaric" (source if you want).

[Faux]

i'm not trying to be mean, but why does it sound like you dont have any friends where you live? make some friends, shows acceptance that you're just one of them

[Omar]

i'm not trying to be mean, but why does it sound like you dont have any friends where you live? make some friends, shows acceptance that you're just one of them

You might be right to a certain extent, but it's not like he's a basement dweller. I suppose you're not the most popular of them all, but not an authentic loser archetype, dsavi? (david?)

[mcneilp]

Basically the same as Racheya, while I'm definitely proud to be Canadian, it doesn't make me better than anyone else, and Canada is certainly far from perfect.

Similar story here. Proud as hell to be Scottish but it doesn't make me better than anyone else. Scotland has problems (as does the UK as a whole) which need sorting but i feel a fair number of people here would identify themselves as Scottish before calling themselves British.

[Zaaps1]

I have a similar situation. I was born in China, moved to the States when I was 3.

[Romy]

I'd say I'm a patriot.

 

Not the kind that thinks my country is superior to others, or that I'm superior because I belong here. But the kind that cares enough about my country to want to defend it.

 

I guess what brought me to this state is a combination of different things. The holocaust plays a deep role here, Israel's history on it's own aswell, seeing innocent citizens die only because they're here definitely pushes me there some more.

 

I could probably list a few more things, but I can admit to care about my country more than most would (about their country).

 

 

 

I'm a proud patriot.

[Nero]

Basically the same as Racheya, while I'm definitely proud to be Canadian, it doesn't make me better than anyone else, and Canada is certainly far from perfect.

Canada doesn't have a culture; we're the country that just accepts everyone and doesn't try to impose some sort of weird cultural identity on them.

 

That being said, I still think of myself as British even though I was born in Canada.

[Giordano]

If I'm truely loyal to any place, it would be California. If America entered a war I wouldn't join, but if California fought for indepence, I would join.

 

But that won't happen, so I'm a proud American citizen.

[magekillr]

Nationality is more of a burden for me than a feeling of pride. I haven't explored all of America yet, I've been to roughly 26 states total. I have yet to feel that I am "at home" or "this is where I belong." I doubt that I ever will; I get sickened with myself for my overconsumption and impatience at the most mundane and trivial things. "God dammit, the page took 10 seconds to load?!?! What the hell?"

 

The only time that I feel at home is when I get high and go to the mountains to go hiking, or if I'm doing service projects to help other people. Sometimes I want to renounce all of my possessions, though they are few relatively speaking, and travel; teaching English, or engineering/mathematics (as this is my profession) to the less fortunate. There is a sense of romanticizing "the plain life" among some Westerners, but I'm not sure it's romanticism as so much as guilt, feelings of powerlessness, and fear.

 

Anyway, I'm going slightly off topic here. My basic point is, as was pointed out by harrinator1, as social beings, we need a sense of belonging in some way. Some are attached to their fellow countrymen, others their family, others to the world; I'm not sure what niche I fit into, but national identity is certainly not one of them. I've also been more uncomfortable in WASP settings whereas these feelings were totally absent in Indian parties or Mexican weddings, and all of my girlfriends have been non-white immigrants (this is not the racist jungle fever, by the way, it's just how it's happened). Of course, the only time I was truly uncomfortable was in a Cracker Barrel, so maybe my niche is what I think all along: the human family in its whole.

[Alg]

I'm not much of a patriot or a nationalist. I probably used to be, but with all the [cabbage] about internet censorship and making it illegal to film police officers, etc. has really made me hate America a lot -.-

This pretty much. I'm not proud of our government here, though I think the people in the country can be pretty cool if they set their minds to it. Feel more connection to the Italian roots of my family than the American part.

[dsavi]

Will respond to more posts later, I'm kinda short on time atm.

I feel that my "identity" is more european than Finnish. Like there isn't much to be bonded to here in Finland other than the nature. The people in Finland are american, the values/ norms of society are more european than finnish by their origin. I wouldn't mind if Finland and Sweden merged into one country, that's how nationalist I am.

Try telling that to the Perussuomalaiset or Sverige"demokraterna". :-P

[Romy]

I'm not much of a patriot or a nationalist. I probably used to be, but with all the [cabbage] about internet censorship and making it illegal to film police officers, etc. has really made me hate America a lot -.-

This pretty much. I'm not proud of our government here, though I think the people in the country can be pretty cool if they set their minds to it.

Nationality is Italian, even though I've never been there. Family immigrated to the states less than 100 years ago.

More proud of that, the Italian side brought a close family while the American part just brings a lot of facepalms.

 

Nationality isn't the same as ethnic roots. Your nationality is American from what I gathered.

[OldJoe]

Will respond to more posts later, I'm kinda short on time atm.

I feel that my "identity" is more european than Finnish. Like there isn't much to be bonded to here in Finland other than the nature. The people in Finland are american, the values/ norms of society are more european than finnish by their origin. I wouldn't mind if Finland and Sweden merged into one country, that's how nationalist I am.

Try telling that to the Perussuomalaiset or Sverige"demokraterna". :-P

They are democratic.

[Alg]

Nationality isn't the same as ethnic roots. Your nationality is American from what I gathered.

True. Edited somewhat appropriately :lol:

[The_Gabe]

I'd say I'm a patriot.

 

Not the kind that thinks my country is superior to others, or that I'm superior because I belong here. But the kind that cares enough about my country to want to defend it.

 

I guess what brought me to this state is a combination of different things. The holocaust plays a deep role here, Israel's history on it's own aswell, seeing innocent citizens die only because they're here definitely pushes me there some more.

 

I could probably list a few more things, but I can admit to care about my country more than most would (about their country).

 

 

 

I'm a proud patriot.

 

This.