Nationality & Belonging to a country

[DerekZoolandah]

I'd say I'm a patriot.

 

Not the kind that thinks my country is superior to others, or that I'm superior because I belong here. But the kind that cares enough about my country to want to defend it.

 

I guess what brought me to this state is a combination of different things. The holocaust plays a deep role here, Israel's history on it's own aswell, seeing innocent citizens die only because they're here definitely pushes me there some more.

 

I could probably list a few more things, but I can admit to care about my country more than most would (about their country).

 

 

 

I'm a proud patriot.

 

This.

 

You were brought to Tennessee by the Holocaust? :lol:

[The_Gabe]

I'd say I'm a patriot.

 

Not the kind that thinks my country is superior to others, or that I'm superior because I belong here. But the kind that cares enough about my country to want to defend it.

 

I guess what brought me to this state is a combination of different things. The holocaust plays a deep role here, Israel's history on it's own aswell, seeing innocent citizens die only because they're here definitely pushes me there some more.

 

I could probably list a few more things, but I can admit to care about my country more than most would (about their country).

 

 

 

I'm a proud patriot.

 

This.

 

You were brought to Tennessee by the Holocaust? :lol:

 

:wall: I lived in Israel, and I came back from there today >.< Jeeeeeeez

[exodus199]

Personally I could not care less about being English (or British). I'm the opposite of thinking my country is superior to others, but far inferior. Every other culture I have visited has been way better than the English culture, and I hope to live somewhere else one day.

[nine naked men]

Well, I think Australia is awesome, but that's kind of a given, since everyone does.

 

But I'd like to visit Italy or England, since that's where the two sides of my family come from.

[weezcake]

I think most people are straying off-course and talking about nationalism and pride, rather than nationality, culture and identity..

[The_Gabe]

I think most people are straying off-course and talking about nationalism and pride, rather than nationality, culture and identity..

 

Viking porn?

 

OT: I'd like to see Italy and italian culture one day aka good pasta =P~

[Giordano]

I think most people are straying off-course and talking about nationalism and pride, rather than nationality, culture and identity..

 

Viking porn?

 

OT: I'd like to see Italy and italian culture one day aka good pasta =P~

Then go to Olive Garden!

 

Please don't shoot me. I was just kidding. But yes, I would love to go to Calabria, Italy someday, the province my great-great-grandfather came from. Maybe I could locate the town he was born in.

[LaserDude333]

I'd say I'm a patriot.

 

Not the kind that thinks my country is superior to others, or that I'm superior because I belong here. But the kind that cares enough about my country to want to defend it.

 

I guess what brought me to this state is a combination of different things. The holocaust plays a deep role here, Israel's history on it's own aswell, seeing innocent citizens die only because they're here definitely pushes me there some more.

 

I could probably list a few more things, but I can admit to care about my country more than most would (about their country).

 

 

 

I'm a proud patriot.

+1

I think Israelis feel more patriotic than people from other countries. I know I am.

[ThurinEthir]

Last sentence of my essay on my history final exam (not saying it was well written or anything...): "...nationalism is still a driving force behind independence movements such as the one in Taiwan."

I suppose I'm a proud Taiwanese nationalist. Not to be confused with Chinese Nationalist. (I wonder what nationalists in China would be called today. Chinese Nationalists is the obvious term, but that usually refers to the KMT - the losers of the Chinese Civil War who fled to Taiwan)

For countries that aren't 100% officially independent, such as Taiwan, nationalism is usually pretty important if the country does want full independence. That's one reason why I'm nationalistic. Taiwan is also a pretty impressive place - one of the lowest poverty rates in the world, pretty high GDP and GDP per capita, one of the largest federal reserves, and most Little League World Series titles if you divide the US into the individual states. All while being the 8th most densely populated country in the world. I'd also say it's a world leader in math and computers too. Of course, I'm just saying all this because I'm patriotic, but it's also a reason to be patriotic.

I'm not saying Taiwan is #1 in the world, but for a country the size of Maryland and Delaware combined (though with about as many people as Texas) I think it's something to be proud of even though I don't live here (though I'm here now...). And in the US, individualism is emphasized pretty strongly (at least in Massachusetts), and my Taiwanese heritage is something that does make me pretty special most of the time.

I can see why people dislike nationalism though. If I were American, I probably wouldn't be very nationalistic - nothing terribly wrong with America though, I just don't think I would care. I can't quite put my finger on why I care so much about Taiwan though...I don't really like the current Taiwanese government so hm...

[Romy]

I can see why people dislike nationalism though.

 

Various reasons. First, because it has potential to incite war, which I think is the biggest issue. Second, because many times nationalism leads to racism/xenophobia. There are some other reasons, but I think these are the main ones.

[magekillr]

I can see why people dislike nationalism though.

 

Various reasons. First, because it has potential to incite war, which I think is the biggest issue. Second, because many times nationalism leads to racism/xenophobia. There are some other reasons, but I think these are the main ones.

 

See Howard Zinn:

 

On this July 4, we would do well to renounce nationalism and all its symbols: its flags, its pledges of allegiance, its anthems, its insistence in song that God must single out America to be blessed.

 

Is not nationalism -- that devotion to a flag, an anthem, a boundary so fierce it engenders mass murder -- one of the great evils of our time, along with racism, along with religious hatred?

 

These ways of thinking -- cultivated, nurtured, indoctrinated from childhood on -- have been useful to those in power, and deadly for those out of power.

 

National spirit can be benign in a country that is small and lacking both in military power and a hunger for expansion (Switzerland, Norway, Costa Rica and many more). But in a nation like ours -- huge, possessing thousands of weapons of mass destruction -- what might have been harmless pride becomes an arrogant nationalism dangerous to others and to ourselves.

 

Our citizenry has been brought up to see our nation as different from others, an exception in the world, uniquely moral, expanding into other lands in order to bring civilization, liberty, democracy.

 

That self-deception started early.

 

When the first English settlers moved into Indian land in Massachusetts Bay and were resisted, the violence escalated into war with the Pequot Indians. The killing of Indians was seen as approved by God, the taking of land as commanded by the Bible. The Puritans cited one of the Psalms, which says: "Ask of me, and I shall give thee, the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the Earth for thy possession."

 

When the English set fire to a Pequot village and massacred men, women and children, the Puritan theologian Cotton Mather said: "It was supposed that no less than 600 Pequot souls were brought down to hell that day."

 

On the eve of the Mexican War, an American journalist declared it our "Manifest Destiny to overspread the continent allotted by Providence." After the invasion of Mexico began, The New York Herald announced: "We believe it is a part of our destiny to civilize that beautiful country."

 

It was always supposedly for benign purposes that our country went to war.

 

We invaded Cuba in 1898 to liberate the Cubans, and went to war in the Philippines shortly after, as President McKinley put it, "to civilize and Christianize" the Filipino people.

 

As our armies were committing massacres in the Philippines (at least 600,000 Filipinos died in a few years of conflict), Elihu Root, our secretary of war, was saying: "The American soldier is different from all other soldiers of all other countries since the war began. He is the advance guard of liberty and justice, of law and order, and of peace and happiness."

 

We see in Iraq that our soldiers are not different. They have, perhaps against their better nature, killed thousands of Iraq civilians. And some soldiers have shown themselves capable of brutality, of torture.

 

Yet they are victims, too, of our government's lies.

 

How many times have we heard President Bush and Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld tell the troops that if they die, if they return without arms or legs, or blinded, it is for "liberty," for "democracy"?

 

One of the effects of nationalist thinking is a loss of a sense of proportion. The killing of 2,300 people at Pearl Harbor becomes the justification for killing 240,000 in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The killing of 3,000 people on Sept. 11 becomes the justification for killing tens of thousands of people in Afghanistan and Iraq.

 

And nationalism is given a special virulence when it is said to be blessed by Providence. Today we have a president, invading two countries in four years, who announced on the campaign trail last year that God speaks through him.

 

We need to refute the idea that our nation is different from, morally superior to, the other imperial powers of world history.

 

We need to assert our allegiance to the human race, and not to any one nation.

 

http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0703-29.htm

[ThurinEthir]

I can see why people dislike nationalism though.

 

Various reasons. First, because it has potential to incite war, which I think is the biggest issue. Second, because many times nationalism leads to racism/xenophobia. There are some other reasons, but I think these are the main ones.

Yeah, I said "I can." We read some Howard Zinn in history this past year actually - he lived near me apparently before he died.

[Romy]

I can see why people dislike nationalism though.

 

Various reasons. First, because it has potential to incite war, which I think is the biggest issue. Second, because many times nationalism leads to racism/xenophobia. There are some other reasons, but I think these are the main ones.

Yeah, I said "I can."

 

Sorry, lol. I blame the heat.

[OldJoe]

See Howard Zinn:

One of the effects of nationalist thinking is a loss of a sense of proportion. The killing of 2,300 people at Pearl Harbor becomes the justification for killing 240,000 in Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Interesting part, since that ended the Japanese involvement in WW2.

[Alg]

See Howard Zinn:

One of the effects of nationalist thinking is a loss of a sense of proportion. The killing of 2,300 people at Pearl Harbor becomes the justification for killing 240,000 in Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Interesting part, since that ended the Japanese involvement in WW2.

Y'know, when I read A People's History of the United States (It was something like that, right?), I thought Zinn had a good perspective of history. That statement changed my opinion of him a bit...

[magekillr]

There's a debate about whether or not the bombs were necessary, you know. And whether or not you agree, the fact that they were dropped directly on civilians with the intent on killing as many people as possible would normally have been considered a war crime. We were on the winning side, so it took a different perspective.

 

I'm of the camp of subscribing to the Doctrine of Double Effect: purposefully attacking civilians is wrong under any circumstance. This is a tough issue, one that not everyone will come close to agreeing on.

[Alg]

I meant that the statement there seems to suggest that he ignored the rest of the war that happened between those two events.

Yes, people could have, and probably did use Pearl Harbor to justify the bombings, but it's really not much different to use those two events to vilify nationalism when the real issue was the war.

[Jernlov]

I consider myself an English nationalist.

 

I underwent a pretty radical change not so long ago. I always used to complain about how bad England is and constantly whine in a cringe-worthy teenage way about "freedom" and "civil liberties" and various other things related. However, one day, I found myself having this great sense of pride in belonging to England. We have a very diverse background and I believe that preseving this is an important thing. I see myself as predominantly English rather than British, as well. A lot of people seem to unfortunately make a link with English nationalism and such groups as the British National Party, the National Front, the English Defence League and the England First Party - the only remotely English nationalist group out of those is the last one. I don't support racism or xenophobia. I'm simply a centre-right type who believes in putting England before Britain.

 

I would go into more depth about the campaign for an English parliament, but I believe that it isn't suitable for this thread. It's a controversial issue.

[dsavi]

I was more concerned with identity than with nationalism/patriotism but I suppose it doesn't matter that much (And it's a bit late to say it).

Now that's all well and good, but I also feel that I would like to feel I belong somewhere, I couldn't really tell you why.

Humans need to feel a sense of belonging and acceptance, whether it comes from a large social group, such as clubs, office culture, religious groups, professional organizations, sports teams, gangs, or small social connections (family members, intimate partners, mentors, close colleagues, confidants). They need to love and be loved (sexually and non-sexually) by others. In the absence of these elements, many people become susceptible to loneliness, social anxiety, and clinical depression. This need for belonging can often overcome the physiological and security needs, depending on the strength of the peer pressure; an anorexic, for example, may ignore the need to eat and the security of health for a feeling of control and belonging.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow%27s_hierarchy_of_needs#Love_and_Belonging I suppose that the more you belong to other groups such as those mentioned above, the less one feels the need to belong to their country. I'm in the same situation as you; I was born in Morocco, I moved to France two years later, I moved back to Morocco after 4 years, then to Germany for 2 years, and then to Canada. I think the latter is where most of my identity has been formed, and yet I still don't fully belong with a group of people who have lived around here forever -- if you make a reference to Sesame Street, I won't get it, because I didn't watch that show (and whenever I did, it was in French). Sometimes I think I'm a very poor Moroccan, but there's no helping it and I can't really blame myself for it. The only reason I see for people being patriotic is being thankful for what your country has given you, and giving back to your country. Being patriotic isn't about shouting your love for your country; it's about loving it.

 

I suppose that's true.

i'm not trying to be mean, but why does it sound like you dont have any friends where you live? make some friends, shows acceptance that you're just one of them

You might be right to a certain extent, but it's not like he's a basement dweller. I suppose you're not the most popular of them all, but not an authentic loser archetype, dsavi? (david?)

Close, it's Davis actually.

I am kind of in between. Due to the language I had problems making friends when I was younger, and at my age now, social lives pretty much revolve around drinking, which I have chosen not to do. It's a social thing, but it's not what we would call "social drinking" in the US; it is generally true that when people my age drink, they drink a lot. And I want to stay away from that.

[Omar]

I don't want to get into an alcohol discussion again, but here you can drink and be hated by everyone, and be straight edge without being shunned, and anything in between. Are people really into drinking that badly?

[dsavi]

Yes. Underage drinking is an extreme problem here.

[Skeptical]

I feel no sense of duty to my country: instead, my loyalty belongs to my friends, family, and our shared humanity.

[Giordano]

I feel no sense of duty to my country: instead, my loyalty belongs to my friends, family, and our shared humanity.

Change humanity to economy and you sound like a mobster. :wink:

[tortilliachp]

I am a citizen of the world, i am a citizen of the internet, but first of all I'm Norwegian. Even though I'm a dual citizen.

 

Thing with nationality: you don't notice the particularities of your own culture till you move somewhere else, and live there for a while (3 months plus would be my guess). That's something I would recommend everyone do, if economically possible: live abroad to broaden your horizons, and see what your culture actually entails. This new perspective will show you that "things that just are that way" are culturally determined to a much larger degree than you think.

[dsavi]

^ Definitely true. There are a lot of things that are considered pretty weird in Finland that are normal in America, like making eye contact with people you don't know in public.