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DeeKay

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Sorry if I am being a party pooper here but are we really having a grammar discussion on a runescape board? Yes, grammar will make many places better, however, in the gaming community bad grammar and leet speak is common and in fact helps differentiate our communities from others. Personally, I would be sad to see it go.

A noteworthy comment.

This makes me wonder whether the gaming community would begin to divide in the coming years. The (what I personally define) modern internet has been around for 15 years now - we've gone through a minority that was passionate about computers (1995-2000), to mass global acknowledgement (2000-2005), and grown into being pissed off by all the ****ing ******s that now swarm the internet.

There are small sparkles of mature (in many cases over 18) gaming groups here and there, and while it's not directly related to the ability to use fluent English, it might lead to overall improvement.


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I think there is a time and a place for correct grammar. As long as the point gets across from A to B, I don't think it really matters that the medium that the content is. That being said, there are certain circumstances where getting the point across from A to B requires correct spelling & grammar.

 

For a formal paper, correct spelling and grammar is important. From anything in a professional standpoint, correct spelling is very important. For playing a game, I am more worried about getting the fact that the tank needs to move before he get's KO'ed, instead of worrying if all of my words are spelled correctly.

 

Regarding the Picture.. Its definatly weather or not it affects your view of what is more important. Than again, their are alot of wierd people with a lose sense of what important is.

 

But in all seriousness. Firefox spellchecker = win. My view is, let the people who spell words wrong, spell them wrong. If you try and correct them they likely wont change how they spell the word anyways, making you and the other person only more frustrated.

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The OP seems to recognize that "U" is you and "r" is are. What's the problem?

 

I don't know? Maybe some players just find it extremely irritating since it just looks so... unnatural?

 

I don't mind so much the short-hand, and acronyms are fine by me, as long as they aren't abused, but when players use words like barrow or mercher... that kind of bugs me. You know someone spends way too much time on RS when they use the former. :P

 

If someone abuses short-hand to the point where it annoys me... then I just don't reply. Because yes I do find it irritating. It's not superiority complex or anything like that. It's just I find no excuse for it when many of have grown up using computers frequently and are capable of typing at reasonable speeds. Typing short-hand would actually be slower for me simply because I'm just not used to it! And reading is the same... I actually read short-hand slower, which is probably what I find so irritating about it.


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I salute you. What are your other two languages? I only know two languages fluently myself. I can read, write, and speak English, naturally, but I can read, write some, and understand spoken French. I'd say, on a measure of understanding, 100% English, 60-70% French, 30% Russian, 30% Spanish (I believe my understanding of the Russian and Spanish language would've gone up, as my ancestral roots are Russian and Cuban, if I wasn't put in an ESL for like, the first year of grade school. Ontario's education system is really messed...)

 

Finish and Swedish.My roots are from both Finland and Sweden but I live in Finland and studied in a Swedish school so i speak both of the languages good.

 

For people who want to know something about dyslexia: There are of course different kinds reading and spelling problems. My worst problem is that i cant read as fast as i think so half way trough a word i try to guess how it ends and quite often it goes wrong, so sometimes when i read long words i might have to read it 5 times before i know what it is. Another thing is using commas and punctures I just cant figure out where to put them :P

Spelling is also a problem (Firefox is correcting words for me so its not a huge problem of the forums) i dont have the "spelling ear" or what ever they call it in English witch means that i dont always know what letters i have to put in even some of the most simple words.

 

Never Written anything this long before :ohnoes:

Hope it makes you understand why some people misspell or dont use perfect grammar.


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(I wana live for ever,

or die trying...)

I have dyslexia so forgive me my bad grammar

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Well i always try to write as well as i can, but the fact that i learned Estonian grammar for 12 years instead of English makes it a bit harder. It also helps if you have the auto-grammar corrector along with firefox, which helps you learn a bit of grammar. As for bad grammar usage, i really, really hate the word ''zerker'' being used. I have yet ot hear anyone go zerk when they get mad... :rolleyes:

I know someone that does. Their anger disintegrates the "Ber" and the "s" must become a "z" to withstand the added force. :P

 

And I really dislike people who go far and away exceed the standards of acronym usage. Whole sentances become short jumbles of letters, and they wonder why no one answers them.


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I think there is a time and a place for correct grammar. As long as the point gets across from A to B, I don't think it really matters that the medium that the content is. That being said, there are certain circumstances where getting the point across from A to B requires correct spelling & grammar.

 

For a formal paper, correct spelling and grammar is important. From anything in a professional standpoint, correct spelling is very important. For playing a game, I am more worried about getting the fact that the tank needs to move before he get's KO'ed, instead of worrying if all of my words are spelled correctly.

 

Regarding the Picture.. Its definatly weather or not it affects your view of what is more important. Than again, their are alot of wierd people with a lose sense of what important is.

 

But in all seriousness. Firefox spellchecker = win. My view is, let the people who spell words wrong, spell them wrong. If you try and correct them they likely wont change how they spell the word anyways, making you and the other person only more frustrated.

 

But you have to admit that a forum where correct grammar is encouraged has a much more mature and comfortable air about it, in the same way that sitting on a leather seat in an old library, with people quietly reading around you while sipping fine malt whisky is much more enjoyable than sitting on a hard plastic seat in Burger King, with noisy children flying around you while slurping a nearly banana milkshake.


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I know someone that does. Their anger disintegrates the "Ber" and the "s" must become a "z" to withstand the added force. :P

 

And I really dislike people who go far and away exceed the standards of acronym usage. Whole sentances become short jumbles of letters, and they wonder why no one answers them.

Especially common in dungeoneering-most of the conversation sounds like [email protected]


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I can see ripping on someone for mistaking they're/their/there your/you're and maybe its/it's, but stuff like effect vs affect and than vs then are both easy mistakes to make especially if you're tired and not thinking. I don't always have a perfect grasp on grammar rules myself, unless they're really obvious ones. I don't place that much importance on it unless I'm writing a report or something.

 

The only thing that really irritates me is when people use substitutions like "u" for you "r" for are and ect on a forum. I've used those substitutions ingame and in chat rooms, but they really have no place on a forum if you ask me. Also when someone replaces an "S" for a "Z" on possessives and plurals. Godawful. It dosen't make you look cool... -.-

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"u" and "r" are mildly annoying. If you use numbers or symbols in your words, then I'll punch you in the face and ignore you. All lowercase and punctuation don't really bother me at all. Honestly, I find typing lyk dis 2 take longer to type out than the correct way anyway. There's a difference between a forum and in game though. I hold much higher standards for forum posting than in game.


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Starting Playing RS: ages ago.

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Actually allot is a word. "I am going to allot 14 hours of my day to Runsecape"

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The main reason I dont communicate in 100% english is because the concentration to type out complete sentences with perfect grammar and capitalization interferes too much with the game

if you can understand it when u use "u" "r" "wen" and various common acronyms why shouldn't i use them?

I only shorten words or use common replacements (like b4 instead of before, or @ instead of at) when I can, I dont talk w17h num83r5 l13k a [email protected]$$

If I do misspell a word, I usually repeat that word right after, instead of look like a idiot.

 

EDIT:

Actually allot is a word. "I am going to allot 14 hours of my day to Runsecape"

lol


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Ultimately I think what gets us most is when people don't appropriate a reasonable amount of effort to at the very least make themselves look intelligent.

 

I've played in a largely text-centred game (now defunct) and the level of maturity there felt a lot higher than anything I could hope to expect from Runescape ever.


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In real life MMO you don't get 99 smithing by making endless bronze daggers.

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http://theoatmeal.com/comics/misspelling

Simply hang it above your monitors, and behold of the illusion of an increased IQ!

 

Anyhow, this is a discussion about the level of English in the RS community, and especially ingame. I'm one of those people who thinks that those players which have bad grammar and spelling, and do not suffer from a known condition, should rot eternally in hell.

 

More realistically, I believe that in an activity in which communication between players is exclusively text-based, it's crucial to be able to express yourself properly. The first two panels in this comic are an awesome example of how I imagine an other player using leetspeak.

I don't believe that everyone should be boring old gits that construct sentence as if they're in court (seeing as according to this there are around 500k words in English), rather stop making idiots of themselves when talking.

Taking 500 more milliseconds to type like this insted of typing liek dis leaves a much more pleasant impression in my eyes.

 

Opinions, gents.

That site should effect the clarity of the readers.

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ITT: Op is trying to appear .... intelligent by saying grammar is important.

 

 

However, contrary to popular belief, as stated previously, grammar is nothing but a tool of language. A way of communicating ideas, and I honestly don't think that it should be a judgement of the ideas themselves, which it typically is. I type like a 4th grader in game, and in forum. It's easier, why wouldn't I? Stop being so pretentious "when people say 'omg like can i has borrow dAT gs" I have no idea what they are saying. Simply deplorable." Mmmk. So I'm guessing while your obvious grammatical skills are so amazing, your comprehension must be badddd. He was asking if he could borrow your godsword, and to be frank I find it pathetic that some people pretend to not be able to understand people.

 

Also: Obt is technically a grammar communist, so... Watch out. He might try to redistribute some of your punctuation marks.


I have all the 99s, and have been playing since 2001. Comped 4/30/15 

My Araxxi Kills: 459::Araxxi Drops(KC):

Araxxi Hilts: 4x Eye (14/126/149/459), Web - (100) Fang (193)

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Boss Pets: Supreme - 848 KC

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ITT: Op is trying to appear .... intelligent by saying grammar is important.

 

 

However, contrary to popular belief, as stated previously, grammar is nothing but a tool of language. A way of communicating ideas, and I honestly don't think that it should be a judgement of the ideas themselves, which it typically is. I type like a 4th grader in game, and in forum. It's easier, why wouldn't I? Stop being so pretentious "when people say 'omg like can i has borrow dAT gs" I have no idea what they are saying. Simply deplorable." Mmmk. So I'm guessing while your obvious grammatical skills are so amazing, your comprehension must be badddd. He was asking if he could borrow your godsword, and to be frank I find it pathetic that some people pretend to not be able to understand people.

 

Also: Obt is technically a grammar communist, so... Watch out. He might try to redistribute some of your punctuation marks.

 

ITT: Pseudo-intellectuals try to pretend that grammar isn't important.

 

Hey, since language is nothing but a tool that humans use for communication, lets say its not important and grasp of language is not an indicator of intelligence. Really nice logic. By the way, just wondering, why is your post so grammatically correct if it doesn't matter? Looks like you're trying to make sense when you write. Don't be so pretentious. :rolleyes:


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I type sentences that are grammatically correct, do I get a prize of some sort? Hopefully it's a spelling bee ribbon, I sure do love those.

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ITT: Op is trying to appear .... intelligent by saying grammar is important.

 

 

However, contrary to popular belief, as stated previously, grammar is nothing but a tool of language. A way of communicating ideas, and I honestly don't think that it should be a judgement of the ideas themselves, which it typically is. I type like a 4th grader in game, and in forum. It's easier, why wouldn't I? Stop being so pretentious "when people say 'omg like can i has borrow dAT gs" I have no idea what they are saying. Simply deplorable." Mmmk. So I'm guessing while your obvious grammatical skills are so amazing, your comprehension must be badddd. He was asking if he could borrow your godsword, and to be frank I find it pathetic that some people pretend to not be able to understand people.

 

Also: Obt is technically a grammar communist, so... Watch out. He might try to redistribute some of your punctuation marks.

 

ITT: Pseudo-intellectuals try to pretend that grammar isn't important.

 

Hey, since language is nothing but a tool that humans use for communication, lets say its not important and grasp of language is not an indicator of intelligence. Really nice logic. By the way, just wondering, why is your post so grammatically correct if it doesn't matter? Looks like you're trying to make sense when you write. Don't be so pretentious. :rolleyes:

 

ITT: herp derp srry L

 

 

so wat i ment waz dat sumtimes i rite v gud somtimes i rite v bad but i dnt rly try liek good hard to do either one. yerp. i mean which ever 1 i want i do. like scooby doo.

 

 

Is that better? And fyi, don't say pseudo intellectual because it sounds cool. And no, I said grammar is a tool of language. Nice reading comprehension. And I guess you've never take a logic class, so I'm not going to touch that hot potato. All I'm saying (which I know you know, but ignored to try and be an ass) is that don't get mad at people for typing how they want to type. Sometimes you may see type in a proper manner, other times I may just post random sentences that rhyme with L at the end. Its whatever I feel like.


I have all the 99s, and have been playing since 2001. Comped 4/30/15 

My Araxxi Kills: 459::Araxxi Drops(KC):

Araxxi Hilts: 4x Eye (14/126/149/459), Web - (100) Fang (193)

Araxxi Legs Completed: 5 ---Top (69/206/234/292/361), Middle (163/176/278/343/395), Bottom (135/256/350/359/397)
Boss Pets: Supreme - 848 KC

If you play Xbox One - Add me! GT: Urtehnoes - Currently on a Destiny binge 

 

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ITT: Op is trying to appear .... intelligent by saying grammar is important.

 

 

However, contrary to popular belief, as stated previously, grammar is nothing but a tool of language. A way of communicating ideas, and I honestly don't think that it should be a judgement of the ideas themselves, which it typically is. I type like a 4th grader in game, and in forum. It's easier, why wouldn't I? Stop being so pretentious "when people say 'omg like can i has borrow dAT gs" I have no idea what they are saying. Simply deplorable." Mmmk. So I'm guessing while your obvious grammatical skills are so amazing, your comprehension must be badddd. He was asking if he could borrow your godsword, and to be frank I find it pathetic that some people pretend to not be able to understand people.

 

Also: Obt is technically a grammar communist, so... Watch out. He might try to redistribute some of your punctuation marks.

 

ITT: Pseudo-intellectuals try to pretend that grammar isn't important.

 

Hey, since language is nothing but a tool that humans use for communication, lets say its not important and grasp of language is not an indicator of intelligence. Really nice logic. By the way, just wondering, why is your post so grammatically correct if it doesn't matter? Looks like you're trying to make sense when you write. Don't be so pretentious. :rolleyes:

 

ITT: herp derp srry L

 

 

so wat i ment waz dat sumtimes i rite v gud somtimes i rite v bad but i dnt rly try liek good hard to do either one. yerp. i mean which ever 1 i want i do. like scooby doo.

 

 

Is that better? And fyi, don't say pseudo intellectual because it sounds cool. And no, I said grammar is a tool of language. Nice reading comprehension. And I guess you've never take a logic class, so I'm not going to touch that hot potato. All I'm saying (which I know you know, but ignored to try and be an ass) is that don't get mad at people for typing how they want to type. Sometimes you may see type in a proper manner, other times I may just post random sentences that rhyme with L at the end. Its whatever I feel like.

 

Obviously you dont know what pseudo-intellectual means if you think I used the word to look cool. Also, I didn't know "logic classes" existed. You're out of your league buddy, dont try to damage control your way out of this one. Feelings have nothing to do with being coherent when writing.


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Grammar shouldn't require much effort if you're a native speaker.

 

One thing which really irks me is when people use the completely wrong word. Whilst 'barrow' is annoying when meaning 'borrow', 'lend' is even worse if 'borrow' was the intended meaning.


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ITT: Op is trying to appear .... intelligent by saying grammar is important.

 

 

However, contrary to popular belief, as stated previously, grammar is nothing but a tool of language. A way of communicating ideas, and I honestly don't think that it should be a judgement of the ideas themselves, which it typically is. I type like a 4th grader in game, and in forum. It's easier, why wouldn't I? Stop being so pretentious "when people say 'omg like can i has borrow dAT gs" I have no idea what they are saying. Simply deplorable." Mmmk. So I'm guessing while your obvious grammatical skills are so amazing, your comprehension must be badddd. He was asking if he could borrow your godsword, and to be frank I find it pathetic that some people pretend to not be able to understand people.

 

Also: Obt is technically a grammar communist, so... Watch out. He might try to redistribute some of your punctuation marks.

 

ITT: Pseudo-intellectuals try to pretend that grammar isn't important.

 

Hey, since language is nothing but a tool that humans use for communication, lets say its not important and grasp of language is not an indicator of intelligence. Really nice logic. By the way, just wondering, why is your post so grammatically correct if it doesn't matter? Looks like you're trying to make sense when you write. Don't be so pretentious. :rolleyes:

 

ITT: herp derp srry L

 

 

so wat i ment waz dat sumtimes i rite v gud somtimes i rite v bad but i dnt rly try liek good hard to do either one. yerp. i mean which ever 1 i want i do. like scooby doo.

 

 

Is that better? And fyi, don't say pseudo intellectual because it sounds cool. And no, I said grammar is a tool of language. Nice reading comprehension. And I guess you've never take a logic class, so I'm not going to touch that hot potato. All I'm saying (which I know you know, but ignored to try and be an ass) is that don't get mad at people for typing how they want to type. Sometimes you may see type in a proper manner, other times I may just post random sentences that rhyme with L at the end. Its whatever I feel like.

 

Obviously you dont know what pseudo-intellectual means if you think I used the word to look cool. Also, I didn't know "logic classes" existed. You're out of your league buddy, dont try to damage control your way out of this one. Feelings have nothing to do with being coherent when writing.

 

 

Well you did do one thing right, you truly did confuse me. I made a simple post, and while I did make a jab at the op, I didn't even know you existed when it comes to this post. And now you're a martyr for the sake of grammar-logic? I mean you literally flipped out for no reason. (Can you give me a viable reason...?)

 

1) Explain how I'm a psuedo-intellectual and I may concede that point.

 

2) Yes they do exist, and to be honest I think everyone should take them, most people (not saying you necessarily) have no true idea what logic is.

 

3) Damage control? When did I do damage control?


I have all the 99s, and have been playing since 2001. Comped 4/30/15 

My Araxxi Kills: 459::Araxxi Drops(KC):

Araxxi Hilts: 4x Eye (14/126/149/459), Web - (100) Fang (193)

Araxxi Legs Completed: 5 ---Top (69/206/234/292/361), Middle (163/176/278/343/395), Bottom (135/256/350/359/397)
Boss Pets: Supreme - 848 KC

If you play Xbox One - Add me! GT: Urtehnoes - Currently on a Destiny binge 

 

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ITT: Op is trying to appear .... intelligent by saying grammar is important.

 

 

However, contrary to popular belief, as stated previously, grammar is nothing but a tool of language. A way of communicating ideas, and I honestly don't think that it should be a judgement of the ideas themselves, which it typically is. I type like a 4th grader in game, and in forum. It's easier, why wouldn't I? Stop being so pretentious "when people say 'omg like can i has borrow dAT gs" I have no idea what they are saying. Simply deplorable." Mmmk. So I'm guessing while your obvious grammatical skills are so amazing, your comprehension must be badddd. He was asking if he could borrow your godsword, and to be frank I find it pathetic that some people pretend to not be able to understand people.

 

Also: Obt is technically a grammar communist, so... Watch out. He might try to redistribute some of your punctuation marks.

 

ITT: Pseudo-intellectuals try to pretend that grammar isn't important.

 

Hey, since language is nothing but a tool that humans use for communication, lets say its not important and grasp of language is not an indicator of intelligence. Really nice logic. By the way, just wondering, why is your post so grammatically correct if it doesn't matter? Looks like you're trying to make sense when you write. Don't be so pretentious. :rolleyes:

 

I suppose you never read my first post in this thread then. In no way does Improper grammar indicate that the person using it has a careless disregard for it. When it comes to communicating on-line, writing is the most preferred tool. A sub-set of that, in a lax community such as this, would be preference. Preference is determined by bias; in other words, you know when to use which kind of way depending on where you are, and who you are talking to.

 

I choose to use proper grammar here, because none of these people around me know me personally, and I want to make a good impression, and not come off as an idiot by using "1337sp34k" in an environment, where, many people have opposing views and are able to present them intelligently so others can see where they are coming from.

 

I also am imperfect, just like you, and others around you, and everyone else on this planet. I make mistakes with grammar all the time. Should I be chastised and scrutinized for it? No, especially considering that...a very small mistake, such as using "their" for "there", where applicable, has no life-threatening results.

 

Small mistakes are also relative. I'm imperfect, but I shouldn't be chastised for any grammatical mistake, because it has no large end result, as should you. It's not as if you or I pressed the wrong button somewhere on a nuke and now everyone is going to die in five minutes. No.

 

As I said earlier, there are no strict rules towards proper grammar in this community. When I say this, I mean you don't get banned just because you wrote "their" when you should have wrote "there". (which happens in a forum I go to occasionally, and let me tell you, the absolute strictness of proper grammar there has a very large effect on what kind of people make up your community) Here, I feel that, in a casual topic, as long as you can understand the other, you should be fine.

 

It DOES get annoying if the person messaging you overdoses on "1337sp34k" and can be an eyesore to read, but the occasional grammar slip-up, such as using "there" instead of "their" or vice-versa depending on the context is fine.

 

Remember that this isn't as if you're writing an essay worth 30% of your English mark. And another thing, as well as coming down to preference, as I choose to write using correct grammar because I think it looks neater, if you think using grammar correctly while defending the mis-use of it is hypocritical or illogical, you would be very wrong.

 

It simply indicates that others who advocate such are more open-minded than yourself, and know that either: when communicating online, usage of correct grammar comes down to preference, provided the person using has a pre-existing grasp of the grammar needed to do so, OR that the person writing to you may be someone who does not have a native background in the English language (immigrants, for one) or have a disability like dyslexia which can be frustrating for them.

 

They are people just like you, who are intelligent just like you, but you need to have empathy when judging someone just by how they use grammar. If you judge people by their grammar without knowing where they come from first, how does this reflect you in real life: You can't judge people by how they speak, or dress, or look, but you can judge others by how they judge you. Point in-case, the ones doing the judging first are usually the close-minded ones, evidently such as yourself.

 

Furthermore, regarding shorthand speak, as a way of measuring intelligence (what kind?), you would actually need to have a pre-existing grasp of English grammar to even use shorthand subsequently, otherwise how would you know how to use shorthand such as "u", "r", "y" "b/c" in the correct context (shorthand which is used on-line for convenience, and rightly so)? So that invalidates your point.

 

Another thing is that, as I said before, as far as the internet is concerned, grammar usage is not a reliable indicator of intelligence. Why? Because the trade-off of shorthand, which you mistake for incorrect grammar, for convenience is generally accepted in an environment where correct grammatical usage comes down to preference. BUT people know when to switch usage.

 

It's why open-minded people such as myself can use shorthand and use proper grammar as well, but I know when to use which one and where. For example, I would normally use shorthand/"leet"when talking to friends. BUT that's okay because they can understand me, and they know personally enough to know I'm not an idiot.

 

BUT for people who don't know me as well (not in real life), such as in debate forums, where there are many people with opposing views that we discuss, I would use proper grammar so I don't come across as an idiot, and so that, when discussing a topic, I can at least hope that others will take me seriously by how I present myself, and I would treat them the same.

 

In other words, bias is one factor that determines when I use proper grammar.

 

Let me put it this way: If proper grammar is not an indicator of grasp of a language (it isn't), it cannot be an indicator of intelligence, for the reasons I stated above.

 

One final note, in my opinion (this does happen and will, but is not always the case, so take this with a grain of salt):

 

I have stated this before in this thread, and I will again. If you use proper grammar as a way to bash others who don't or can't use it properly, as if you're writing an English essay, you're a tool.

 

A tool with a deep inferiority complex, criticizing those who can't speak in your language properly, despite everyone being imperfect.

 

Why do you do it? To achieve the feeling that you're better than them, to fill in that area of ability you might not be so good in, and feel others scrutinize you for, although you're prone to the same mistakes.

 

Because only insecure people would stoop down so low as to bash others, who are trying to master YOUR NATIVE language so that you can understand them, where as you probably only know one, English, and they know at least two.

 

You try speaking in their native language properly and see what happens. Maybe they'll be kinder to you. OR, maybe they're dyslexic and no matter how hard they try, they screw up a sentence. But they try.

 

OR, it comes down to preference. In a casual-themed topic unlike this one, some lax grammar /shorthand would be accepted, because you don't need to be Einstein to tell everyone what your favorite RuneScape past-time is, or something.

 

In an debate topic such as this one, but particularly in an anonymous setting, where people who don't know you personally, evidently have many contrasting (but biased) viewpoints, as I said before, you need to present yourself intelligently so that others can take you seriously.

 

/post

 

(and hopefully, /thread).


RIP RU_Insane. August 3rd, 2005 - November 11th, 2012.
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The fact that some of you know the word and there for able correct people means the initial communication was a success.

 

 

This is the internet, not a project or a resume. We are only communicating not handing out grades.

 

the Internet grammar natzi is the worst of the worst and there is a special place in hell for them.

 

Deal with it, some people spell [cabbage] wrong.


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