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Tip.It Times - 1st August 2010


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#21
Tooneb
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About the first article:

"A promise is a promise and shoudl be kept" is a value everybody should try to keep. There are always unexpected events which make it impossible to keep a promise. However, if on forehand the possibility exists you cannot keep your promise, you should state so on forehand, so people know there is an exception why a promise cannot be kept. If Jagex didn't completly playtested an update before the release of the BTS they should reasonly know the possibility exists they cannot keep the promise. Therefore they shouldn't have made the promise the way they did now. If you read the BTS you can only conclude the update would have been released already.

I think Jagex should either tell the public about an update if it's completly ready to be released or not give a very specific date of release. The former solution assures they will be able to keep their promise 99% of the time, while the latter allows Jagex some space if they need some more time. I prefer the former, because there always will be people who cannot cope with vague promises.

About the second article:
It would be nice that people would show some respect to each other. However there are just too much selfish people and if you are playing runescape you just have to deal with that. If you cannot, you should not play a massive multipayer online roleplaying game. I am not advocating selfishness here, but with so many player there are so many thoughts about what is decent and therefore you cannot expect people to deal with other players the way you think is right. You also have to keep in mind people tend to be less decent if the chances of retribution are small and the benefits of not being decent are high. And that's the situation we are dealing with in Runescape.

#22
ghjkl
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Before kuradal's dungeon, when I felt like camping abbies, I just wear slayer helm, and tell non campers to gtfo. Was funny when they respected me and left.
 

#23
waheera1
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Racheya, you missed one of the most glaringly obvious reasons for peoples' discontent at recent failures by the Jagex team: twitter hints. The combination of a vague outline from BTS followed by specific weekly hints on twitter means that by Sunday evening, we are all able to find out what the week's updates should be. What I find most remarkable is that Jagex have still released twitter hints for both Dungeoneering 1.5 AND Clue Scroll updates this month, knowing full well that on Friday things were not ready for release and therefore leaving a pathetic 10 or so office hours in which to solve any problems on Monday and Tuesday morning. If an update is not ready on Sunday when the twitter hint goes out, they'd receive a much better reaction by not releasing a twitter hint for an update that most likely will not happen, rather than confirming an update that is meant to happen but clearly cannot.

Perhaps I'm unusual, in that because of the expectations placed on me in my line of work (punctuality and competence at the least), I expect the same of Jagex. If I promise to be somewhere doing a certain job at a certain time, I am either there or I lose my job. I expect the same high standards of Jagex when they beam out a promise of content updates so close to the projected release date.

As for the second article: politeness on slayer tasks is always a delight to come across. A good conversation always makes a task more enjoyable - I HATE steel/iron dragon tasks, since they take so long and rarely reward me with anything, but I met a friendly chap this evening to chat to and the experience improved ten-fold. It would be wonderful if people could simply engage common sense and communicate a bit better, in all aspects of the game, to make it what it is meant to be: fun.

#24
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Before kuradal's dungeon, when I felt like camping abbies, I just wear slayer helm, and tell non campers to gtfo. Was funny when they respected me and left.


Why would anyone ever respect someone who had the bad manners to say gtfo?

#25
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1. I used to follow the slaying etiquette. I still do when using a cannon, but when not, I tend to aggressively slay until even higher-levelled slayers are forced to hop worlds. Also, I keep the public chat off, so I don't really care what they have to say (or would want to say). Conversation isn't a way to train slayer, afk is.
2. I know how BTS works, but I don't read Jagex twitter. As long as they don't suddenly cancel (for indefinite amount of time) a promised update (delaying doesn't count), it is good for me. Also, I firmly believe in "we pay, we say" principle. I will threaten them with membership cancel as often as needed.

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#26
phantomkoi
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Article 2: Survival of the fittest, here's a scenario: There is a level 75 at mutated bloodvelds, no cannon. He kills some. Then a level 138 with a chaotic rapier, overloads and a cannon arrives and owns everything. According to your article, the level 138 should politely stand there and ask the level 75 who should change world while he could be getting experience. In runescape, the stronger player always wins. :thumbsup:


In that scenario, if I were the level 75, I would move, wouldn't you? Anyone slaying in the same area as a 138 tends to need to move if they also wish to slay efficiently (Or at all.) That doesn't mean that either player is impolite: it just emphasizes the enormous gulf in both players' abilities. I would call that an unfair scenario, as it doesn't seem particularly likely. But if you were there, as either player, there's nothing stopping you from either setting a boundary ("{Hey, can I have this spawn, they take me a minute" - I know quite a few people who'd say "sure knock yourself out" and quite a few who'd say "OMG I HAS CHAOTIC RAPIER ALL MONSTARZ IS MINE!" Obviously you don't lose anything by asking...) Also, your theoretical 138 is monopolizing every spawn in your scenario, which already makes him "impolite" by the loose guidelines I had in mind. Sure, that's likely (I have never seen an overload potion in action, sorry) but there's really more to respectful behavior than ability - there's also intent (perhaps your 138 is slaying and watching a movie?) speed, personal quantifiers...I have met rude level 45 slayers, and completely pleasant 138s. Of course, I've also met their opposites. And there are a lot of people in the middle - the guy who only has five minutes and is expecting to wipe out the last 40 monsters of a task (unrealistically), the person who's had a crappy day, people who regularly turn chat off to slay (making it hard to communicate) - there's a lot of people in the world, and we all have our own idiosyncrasies. Personally, I hate slayer, because while the idea of the skill is exciting, the constant stream of unparalleled rudeness just makes me procrastinate. There are certain monsters I won't kill, not because I can't, but because I know they're more prone to trash-talking (my ignore list doesn't have that many slots left) and general misbehavior. But that's me. You're welcome to write an opposing article - I'd like to see an argument in favor of what I think of as the seedier side of slaying.

In the end, as in most things, it's your game. You'll play it however you want. I can't change that, and I don't want to. All I pointed out is that it seems a great many people - an abnormal percentage as compared to, say, Farming, or what have you - are impolite and unpleasant while slaying. I feel that that's related to certain intrinsic elements of the skill, (the sense of urgency, the numbers in the tasks, etc) and all I want to do is remind them that slayer is merely a skill, and not a race, nor is it a reason to berate other players (would your 138 enjoy calling your level 75 a noob, I wonder? Because while most people ignore each other's levels while, say, smithing, they do ridicule them during slayer.) A little sensitivity to both other players and the environment is not difficult, nor should it hamper anyone's enjoyment of the game. Sure, you can turn chat off - but I've made a great many friends when I finally bite the bullet, shoulder my godsword, and head out to kill my however-many whatevers. I do understand the appeal of not needing to bank, and I definitely understand getting it over with fast, but I feel that's unrealistic given our degree of crowding and the popularity of the skill.

Anyway, if nobody ever says they want to see a change, then they can't really complain when it doesn't happen, can they? I don't mind hopping worlds to find one that suits my needs, and I don't mind sharing, and I certainly don't mind conversation. Maybe I'm in the minority. (Well, I probably am.) But these are my opinions, and nothing more. Thank you for taking the time to read this article and comment on it.

But if it makes you feel better, I'm definitely already sorry I wrote the article. This was my first one, and it's gonna be the last.

#27
firebird308
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That makes even less sense, since, barring dust devils or abby specs, you can tell if someone's on-task because they're wearing a slayer helm. If they're not, they aren't on-task. And the standard response to "[skill]?" is, as far as I know, "[my level in skill]" which still doesn't tell you that.

:blink:


I guess I'm never on task then, because I don't have a Slayer helm.

Then you're doing it wrong. Black masks are only ~2m. No slayer should be without one.


I am not paying two mil for a mask. And even if I was willing, I don't have the bank space.

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#28
phantomkoi
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That makes even less sense, since, barring dust devils or abby specs, you can tell if someone's on-task because they're wearing a slayer helm. If they're not, they aren't on-task. And the standard response to "[skill]?" is, as far as I know, "[my level in skill]" which still doesn't tell you that.

:blink:


I guess I'm never on task then, because I don't have a Slayer helm.

Then you're doing it wrong. Black masks are only ~2m. No slayer should be without one.


I wear my helm to train quite frequently: it's just a habit. I tend to wear it for most combat, even though it doesn't do a great deal of good for non-slayer applications. But right, the entire point here is that you are looking for indications of intent, which would make you, to me, a polite slayer. And for the record, I didn't mean the phrase "Slayer?" to incorporate quick-chat options. It's just what I usually ask people who are determined to compete with me over, say, spiritual mages (because the most efficient three are the Sara ones just inside the dungeon.) If we're both slaying, then I'll move to either a different area or a different world. Eventually they leave, or what have you. Or they don't, and I have to kill the ones on the second level. No big deal to me - I have the agility level that I know a great many people don't. And the second platform has either three or four - it's not that bad even with prayer off, and it's fast with it on. To me, asking questions like this is both a way to show respect and an exercise in creative problem-solving. I don't feel I lose anything by treating others as I'd like them to treat me.

But again, that's me, and I am neither an accomplished slayer nor an expert one. I don't cannon tasks. I'm okay with taking an hour to kill a couple hundred dust devils, especially if I can have a conversation during. Thank you for reading the article.

#29
Troacctid
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Then you're doing it wrong. Black masks are only ~2m. No slayer should be without one.


I am not paying two mil for a mask. And even if I was willing, I don't have the bank space.

Yes, exactly. You're doing it wrong. No offense or anything--you're doing it wrong on purpose and you know you're doing it wrong, so there's nothing wrong with it. Besides, well, you know. :ugeek:

I wear my helm to train quite frequently: it's just a habit. I tend to wear it for most combat, even though it doesn't do a great deal of good for non-slayer applications. But right, the entire point here is that you are looking for indications of intent, which would make you, to me, a polite slayer. And for the record, I didn't mean the phrase "Slayer?" to incorporate quick-chat options. It's just what I usually ask people who are determined to compete with me over, say, spiritual mages (because the most efficient three are the Sara ones just inside the dungeon.) If we're both slaying, then I'll move to either a different area or a different world. Eventually they leave, or what have you. Or they don't, and I have to kill the ones on the second level. No big deal to me - I have the agility level that I know a great many people don't. And the second platform has either three or four - it's not that bad even with prayer off, and it's fast with it on. To me, asking questions like this is both a way to show respect and an exercise in creative problem-solving. I don't feel I lose anything by treating others as I'd like them to treat me.

But again, that's me, and I am neither an accomplished slayer nor an expert one. I don't cannon tasks. I'm okay with taking an hour to kill a couple hundred dust devils, especially if I can have a conversation during. Thank you for reading the article.

Okay, fair enough, but I think you go too far in presenting it as a guideline for proper slayer etiquette. Cutthroat or not, that's above and beyond the call of courtesy. (Easily misinterpreted, too.)

#30
Jonanananas
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That makes even less sense, since, barring dust devils or abby specs, you can tell if someone's on-task because they're wearing a slayer helm. If they're not, they aren't on-task. And the standard response to "[skill]?" is, as far as I know, "[my level in skill]" which still doesn't tell you that.

:blink:


I guess I'm never on task then, because I don't have a Slayer helm.

Then you're doing it wrong. Black masks are only ~2m. No slayer should be without one.


I am not paying two mil for a mask. And even if I was willing, I don't have the bank space.


Don't have the bankspace for something as important as a black mask? What the hell is your bank cluttered with?

Also, care to elabore WHY you're not paying that money? In efficieny standards, it's definitely worth it(although I would wait some time atm, as they seem to be merched)

#31
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On the subject of slaying, I can be pretty brief. Some people wish to gain as much XP per unit of time they're playing, and as such don't have time for being nice. They are relentless in their pursuit of maximum XP and don't care about what a bunch of people they don't know think about them. If you (speaking to the reader of this post, not just the article's author) want to be a gentleman, sure, go ahead. If the person you're sharing the room with is well-mannered, awesome. But at all times be aware that some people play solely for gathering as much XP as humanly possible and won't be playing nice. Whether such an attitude is good or bad is up for debate (personally think it's rather detrimental to the game's atmosphere), but if you expect every newcomer to set up a cannon you'll be relieved if they don't; and if they do, you can just shrug and move on, saving yourself a lot of frustration.

I thought the article was well and humorously written, so I'm sad to see that author's calling it already. Don't quit just because you got some criticism, it comes with the job.


As for the outrage over the update, I too raised an eyebrow at how seriously pissed off some people seemed to be. Some even claimed that Jagex were bad at what they do (developing software/games) because of their inability to stick to their schedule. By that definition, just about every software developer in existence would be awful. Take big brother Blizzard, for example. Early in 2007, when The Burning Crusade, a WoW expansion, hit retail, Blizzard said they were aiming to release a new expansion every year. Yet the next expansion, Wrath of the Lich King, shipped 20 months later, and right now we're close to 19 months into Wrath and while the latest expansion, Cataclysm, is in beta at the moment, it sure doesn't look like it's anywhere near ready for release. Yet I don't see anyone claiming Blizzard is a bad software developer.

On the other hand, consider Ritual Entertainment. They were developing a pretty high-profile shooter back in 1998 called Sin. It wasn't quite polished yet, but their publisher (guess who :lol:) wanted it out before the holidays. Beta versions were sent to game magazines, with claims that bugs would end up being fixed. Sure, the game looked and sounded great, and disregarding the various quirks and glitches gameplay was pretty solid. Reviews generally praised the game. At my local toy store, one of the employees was into games pretty big and had visited the E3 that year. He said there were three major shooters on showcase. The first, Duke Nukem Forever, was awesome in every which way imaginable. Then there was Sin, which was less awesome but still looked promising. Oh, and then there was some game called Half-life which he thought looked pretty [cabbage]ty. Duke's new game has been canned after years of being stuck in development hell, Sin was released on schedule but it was so buggy and sluggish that you could literally start loading a level, go to the bathroom to take a dump and come back to see that it was STILL busy loading, and Half-life went on to win 300 game of the year awards. Sure, Sin was patched up afterwards, but the patch was so large that it'd take about three years to download over dial-up, which was the standard back then. Ritual kept to their schedule, sure, but I don't see anyone calling them good developers for it (even if admittedly Activision was to blame for it).

Jagex kind of suffered the same dilemma, though on a smaller scale. Either release the update now and make the game unplayable for a bunch of people, or delay it and release a polished update. Personally, I think they made the right call here. Keep in mind that game development as a bit of a sciency edge to it. Say, some office guy has to grind through a dozen of boring reports and write a dozen equally boring assessments. Nothing out of the ordinary is going to happen there, so if he's been given sufficient time yet doesn't manage to finish his assessments he's clearly been slacking. On the other hand, as was explained in last week's forum post, something unexpected went wrong with the graphics update. It happens. However, they did seem to hint strongly at a certain release date through tweets, if they hadn't done so they probably would've prevented some of the outcry from happening. Lesson learned, I suppose.

#32
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Personally, I hate slayer, because while the idea of the skill is exciting, the constant stream of unparalleled rudeness just makes me procrastinate.


+1

I don't hate the skill, just the people I occasionally have to be around to train it. I'd rather spend time world hopping to get away from cannoneers, unbalanced slayer:monster ratio and idiots than trying to be the Big Bad.
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#33
blakdragon39
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I liked the slaying article. Never hurts to be polite to people, but a lot of people don't really seem to care. :(
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#34
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I dont find it to hard to deal with players at all. All it takes is a little knowhow on where to slay. killing regular bloodvields? go to the room next to mutateds, its always empty. killing black demons, try the new dungeon. killing metal drags? there are 4 or 5 options to take. all in all its not that hard to find a empty or neer empty spot, the most amount of hops i've had to do on a slayer task in the last year is 2, it also helps to know what kind of worlds are good for slayer.
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#35
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Both very good articles.

O GAWD NOES TEH UPDAET IZ LATE, I NO KAN PLY TIL I HAS UPDATE

Sure, you can be annoyed that it didn't work, but it's not Jagex's fault and there's no reason to riot/rant/flame about it.



I hate it when I'm killing ANY monster and someone just comes and takes the spot and I politely ask them to hop, and they say "no u noob lol". Entitled sons of [bleep]es.
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#36
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To the first article, what happend to the days when experienced scapers such as RSw44 or TS Stormage actually written something interesting with good insight? >.> The main article on the tip it time nowadays is nothing more than a rant section. I understand if you as a writer is frustrated at players complaining at Jagex for delaying an update. I mean god forbid you never heard it before. But is it really that worthwhile to put it on the main article? Tip It Times used to be an enjoyment for me and now after today's last straw following a string of bad articles I think I'll end my tradition of reading the times which began 2 years ago just because the editors no longer care who writes them. I remember when RSw44 was still writing, every week he'd post something interesting about the RS economy and gave me new insights into the workings of the GE. Or when Necro wrote his on the history of major RS bugs, that was always a fun walk down memory lane. But nowadays for nearly 2 months the articles seems to be just about people rambling on about their boring lives and the same old cliches (with a few diamonds in the roughs thanks to TS on the decline of the times, Forsakenmage on her fictional, and RSw44's return about Jagex cover ups).

Rants like this don't deserve to be on the times, if it does then I'd go spend 15 minute writing about everything in RS that's ever irritated me and I'll be able to provide tip it with a year's worth of writing. Leave these rants for the forum discussions, and actually let the intelligent insights flow on the times.

Article #2: Your guide to slayer seems like a guide to be polite. Unfortunately in the present rs state of efficiency I doubt many people would care about spawn stealing or cannoning in a crowded area. Although I agree wholeheartedly with the "heated" discussion about those slayer's "girlfriends"


Why do articles like this not deserve to be on the times? If you have ideas for articles, by jove please say! Please try yourself coming up with ideas for articles for a year then we will see how many 'original' ideas you can come up with. Criticising a public articles topic when you are not prepared to do it yourself is a null criticism.

Good articles imo. I agree with the slayer one, but I am one of the shrinking group of players not concerned in the slightest with efficiency and just playing the game to waste time and have fun.
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#37
MstrMonopoly
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To the first article, what happend to the days when experienced scapers such as RSw44 or TS Stormage actually written something interesting with good insight? >.> The main article on the tip it time nowadays is nothing more than a rant section. I understand if you as a writer is frustrated at players complaining at Jagex for delaying an update. I mean god forbid you never heard it before. But is it really that worthwhile to put it on the main article? Tip It Times used to be an enjoyment for me and now after today's last straw following a string of bad articles I think I'll end my tradition of reading the times which began 2 years ago just because the editors no longer care who writes them. I remember when RSw44 was still writing, every week he'd post something interesting about the RS economy and gave me new insights into the workings of the GE. Or when Necro wrote his on the history of major RS bugs, that was always a fun walk down memory lane. But nowadays for nearly 2 months the articles seems to be just about people rambling on about their boring lives and the same old cliches (with a few diamonds in the roughs thanks to TS on the decline of the times, Forsakenmage on her fictional, and RSw44's return about Jagex cover ups).

Rants like this don't deserve to be on the times, if it does then I'd go spend 15 minute writing about everything in RS that's ever irritated me and I'll be able to provide tip it with a year's worth of writing. Leave these rants for the forum discussions, and actually let the intelligent insights flow on the times.

Article #2: Your guide to slayer seems like a guide to be polite. Unfortunately in the present rs state of efficiency I doubt many people would care about spawn stealing or cannoning in a crowded area. Although I agree wholeheartedly with the "heated" discussion about those slayer's "girlfriends"


Why do articles like this not deserve to be on the times? If you have ideas for articles, by jove please say! Please try yourself coming up with ideas for articles for a year then we will see how many 'original' ideas you can come up with. Criticising a public articles topic when you are not prepared to do it yourself is a null criticism.

Good articles imo. I agree with the slayer one, but I am one of the shrinking group of players not concerned in the slightest with efficiency and just playing the game to waste time and have fun.


On Slayer, for me, efficiency = fun. On other skills, such as Magic, I will happily plop my ass down and watch television while spamming the 5 key.


I piety the fool.

#38
Maulmachine
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To the first article, what happend to the days when experienced scapers such as RSw44 or TS Stormage actually written something interesting with good insight? >.> The main article on the tip it time nowadays is nothing more than a rant section. I understand if you as a writer is frustrated at players complaining at Jagex for delaying an update. I mean god forbid you never heard it before. But is it really that worthwhile to put it on the main article? Tip It Times used to be an enjoyment for me and now after today's last straw following a string of bad articles I think I'll end my tradition of reading the times which began 2 years ago just because the editors no longer care who writes them. I remember when RSw44 was still writing, every week he'd post something interesting about the RS economy and gave me new insights into the workings of the GE. Or when Necro wrote his on the history of major RS bugs, that was always a fun walk down memory lane. But nowadays for nearly 2 months the articles seems to be just about people rambling on about their boring lives and the same old cliches (with a few diamonds in the roughs thanks to TS on the decline of the times, Forsakenmage on her fictional, and RSw44's return about Jagex cover ups).

Rants like this don't deserve to be on the times, if it does then I'd go spend 15 minute writing about everything in RS that's ever irritated me and I'll be able to provide tip it with a year's worth of writing. Leave these rants for the forum discussions, and actually let the intelligent insights flow on the times.

Article #2: Your guide to slayer seems like a guide to be polite. Unfortunately in the present rs state of efficiency I doubt many people would care about spawn stealing or cannoning in a crowded area. Although I agree wholeheartedly with the "heated" discussion about those slayer's "girlfriends"


Why do articles like this not deserve to be on the times? If you have ideas for articles, by jove please say! Please try yourself coming up with ideas for articles for a year then we will see how many 'original' ideas you can come up with. Criticising a public articles topic when you are not prepared to do it yourself is a null criticism.

Good articles imo. I agree with the slayer one, but I am one of the shrinking group of players not concerned in the slightest with efficiency and just playing the game to waste time and have fun.

They don't deserve to be on the times because the article in question, Racheya's, was her direct response to a forum argument. Where the exact same insults where used, and answered. Rather than glean anything from this, Racheya chose to portray those complaining in a negative light. Frequently calling them kids and making further over generalized. In a sense, it was just trolling. I have an idea for an article, a rebuttal to the point offered by Racheya. Oh wait, there's already a thread for that, created before the article was even written.

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#39
vox1st
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vox1st

    Unicorn Horn

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To think, some people wondered why Jagex removed BTS. This is exactly why, the Behind the Scenes is not a promise or a definite schedule, itÂ’s just an estimation of what they expect to be released this month. When working with computers and programming, you quickly learn that it is incredibly easy for things to mess up and become problematic over the smallest thing. Delays are almost guaranteed.


Its actually more like Jagex revealing what they were PLANNING to do. Many people don't realize that in the videogame business, plans aren't usually fufilled like expected. Research the development of any major video game and you will find this to be true. One example is that for "halo 2" they planned for it to include all the levels and plot of halo 3 as well, but the game had to be split to save time, as well as major graphical downgrading, cutting down many campaign levels to fractions of the intended sizes, and scrapping tons of fun level ideas. The game's end was a cliffhanger by purely running out of time, not on purpose. Runescape devs have actually a very good record of keeping their promises. I was really excited for treasure trails, but I knew it would be a huge update, I don't care that it isn't out yet, I want them to get it right so release day is great. The fact that many people have no idea what it takes to code a game leaves them to think its an easy task. Code line 103 could be what is making line 41,922 mess up.(runescape has over 44,000 lines of code) For all we know this update could take massive testing. Also because so many computers and browsers are different, it is nearly impossible to get it right the first time. They do a pretty darn good job I think.

Now in terms of what the content is, and the people who think it up, those people need to be put in time out for crummy and hasty plans without thinking about what would be junk and a waste of time for coders(castle wars update) and what would make players happy(make a team balancing system for castle wars)
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#40
Kalafai
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Kalafai

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I have to say this. If we are in multicombat, and you have a cannon. Set it up! I can out dps a cannon on one monster, and thus that monster is faster for me, and you can still be getting your quick kills. Just don't complain about me moving over closer to you.




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