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[DevBlog] Hit Marks: Damage Control

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I personally think they should just make a minimum hit of 1 every time and scrap the whole 0's and MISS.

Then attack would be useless. Jagex seems to be against deprecating major featuresbased on their past actions.

If they just changed all misses to 1's, then attack would still be useful if you wanted to hit over 1 :D

 

Plus, attack is required to weild weapons.

 

strength is required to hit over 1, not attack.

 

I know that, thats why i said, IF.

 

I bolded the quote for emphasis.

 

You're still not making sence. If we presume, that all misses will have a minimum hit of 1 (as you say) then with a + 200 attack bonus and 0 strength, all you'd hit would be a string of 1s. If, in the same situation, you had a +200 strength bonus and 0 attack, you'd hit a whole load of numbers greater than 1.

 

Unless there's something I'm not understanding.

 

No as in, just change all hits that would originally hit zero, to hit one. Its not that complex.

 

So if you have zero attack, youl just hit 1 all the time because your constantly "missing", with the occasional 1-200 because you actually hit.

 

If you have high attack, youl hit 1-100 all the time, because your hitting.


O.O

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Thanks for not reading my argument, really appreciated.

[spoiler=Made the replies WBM friendly :)]

 

Um... wrong dude. Your health bar does not update unless you take actual damage. The healsplats are for the benefit of your attacker, and teammates who would rather cast a heal than bless your grave if you start lagging bad.

 

Let me fix that. "But you can see your healthbar go up when you eat [while you're in combat] so that really is a poor argument to use." K nothing wrong now.

 

As for overcrowding on the hitsplats... looks like as of this time that has not even been addressed, as these pictures are of a greater demon, one of the tallest creatures out there. Give it some time, and of course watch out for double team claws because I find those hilarious.

 

Again, as long as HITsplats are guaranteed to show over healsplats, I can live with it (hell, a toggle would be a God-send). There are only four spots available for hit/heal splats on any given player or NPC (regardless of how tall the NPC is). As with my first example, Claws (which when using the spec will leave four splats), can theoretically hit really high on the first hit, but fail the next three (as an example). If you eat when that happens, the blob of purple covers the first (in this case massive) hit, you don't eat next round of combat, and boom KO. GF 50m in gear. Thanks for telling me how much a shark heals, Jagex :thumbup:.

 

 

Changed the font so you don't have to read "all that text" :rolleyes:

 

Every single thing you said was addressed the first time, but thank you for proving the following point!

I'm stuck repeating myself or explaining things one should already know before arguing this...

Bravo. I bet you'll reply with another one line response that either has no relevance whatsoever to the conversation again or something I addressed pages ago again.


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Some people had actually come up with a good point about this update. A bad point. How it would affect PVP. I didn't think about it at first until I saw someone post a thread about this on the RSOF. They said that this update would ruin PVP because you could be able to tell what attack style your enemy was using on you easier, but more importantly, exactly how much they were healing (if the healing splats were released with this update, which it is looking like they will due to the recent poll). This doesn't affect me because I don't PK much at all, but I did think they had a good point...


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He said he was going to post something on Monday, did he? I've not seen it posted in this topic and too lazy to go check for myself :P

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Changed the font so you don't have to read "all that text" :rolleyes:

 

Every single thing you said was addressed the first time, but thank you for proving the following point!

I'm stuck repeating myself or explaining things one should already know before arguing this...

Bravo. I bet you'll reply with another one line response that either has no relevance whatsoever to the conversation again or something I addressed pages ago again.

You may have responded, but didn't understand. I meant that it appeared the hit splats were being stacked vertically in the tests. While this works on a greater demon, who is as tall as a two story house, or that new thunderous guy who is as tall as a three story house, it probably just wont do for a small cave crawler. We'll have to wait to see what he comes up with to overcome this limitation.

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He said he was going to post something on Monday, did he? I've not seen it posted in this topic and too lazy to go check for myself :P

 

I did the work for you:

198-199-7-61486718

page 68.

 

Yay he answered my question first which was:

Perhaps a dev blog video will be made later on about this? The video on the void knight was amazing and I expect a blog showing creation and explaining the new hit marks will be as well.

 

Ok, some more personal answers. Apologies - due to not being in the office on Friday and the weekend this has got a bit out of control. I've read all the posts from home though, so take a look through my following posts and hopefully I've answered your questions. Anything to do with "Miss", Critical hits, or GFX style I've not answered - but I've updated my first post.

 

---I ran out of lunchtime, so I only made it to page 20---

 

@catacalysm:

A dev video? - I've just done one for something else, but we'll see.

 

@Patriot and G Warrior107:

An interesting idea, if we can think of something to display the styles this might be something to explore, provided it doesn't get confusing if you are constantly under melee attack from all styles!

 

@Skyking168:

Appreciate your willingness to give it a try. Toggling is something I was looking into originally but due to the way the system works it doesn't look like something we can put in at this time.

 

@Lordnnamma:

This isn't a combat rework, more of a GFX/feedback change to the hitmark system.

 

@The Rickles:

Healsplats, something I left out of the blog. I'm still looking at these. They work a little differently and I'm still experimenting with what we can do with them in regards to who sees them.

 

@Aeroxmaster:

Thanks for your comment. The aim of this isn't to make combat easier. Most people should be unaffected as they probably already know the attack coming in on them. Granted it might make some things easier the first time you play them, but the chances are you'll still have a fair chance of getting it right without being told as the damage hits.

 

@No_Noobtubes:

The shields shouldn't be overpowered, they are balanced for the group they were aimed for - negating the increased damage the other new weapons can do. As for no one affording them, people have goals to obtain the rarer equipment. As for updating the GE, that's nothing to do with what I work on.

 

@ShadowReaver:

Poison and disease will follow the same system, so they will be faded if the poison on the NPC wasn't inflicted by you. Prayers in PvP do reduce damage but they won't show how much in terms of a soak-splat. I'll look into it as it's not a bad idea.

 

@Sneeriest:

Whilst your comment was about GFX, I thought it best to reply to say we are looking at ways to make sure the splats are fine for colourblind people and what you see at the moment is WIP.

 

@Magic0mystic, AC-130Above:

Good point. The bloodveld do have a "magical melee" attack - but perhaps in a way people haven't thought about. Usually when an NPC looks at it's chance to hit, it compares it to your defensive stats. For example if an NPC is going to crush you, it'll compare to your crush defence. Bloodvelds work differently in that they compare their melee attack vs your magic defence. The attack is actually just a melee one, but the way it gets there is magical. To that degree it'll show a melee hitmark. Hope that helps :)

 

@Pitty Pat:

Whilst I can't comment on the hitpoints/lifepoints change, I too have played for many years and as an ex-max I can see how you feel to parts of the game being changed. The attitude of "if it ain't broke don't fix it" I agree with, but I never said it was broken, or that I was trying to fix it and no change to how the combat system performs has been changed, this is mainly just visual feedback.

 

@Xana_anaX:

A fair point and I understand your concern as it is one I shared during the development of this aspect. That said the chance of punching vs full dragon is incredibly low and then the chance of the hit being 0 is also based on other factors. During the WIP time I've had with it I don't think I've seen a 1 being hit, it generally just misses, except now you know it was a miss. That said it is something I'm always watching.

 

@I R3k0 I:

I'm aware of the Pk concern with Heal-splats. They have a bit more flexibility that the rest so I'm exploring the options. They won't be put in if we're not happy with them.

 

@LL Turmoiler:

I'm sorry to hear you preferred the older game, but as the gaming world pushes forward, gaming companies also try to expand and keep their games upto date as well. I can't comment on allowing players to play in the old GFX modes as I'm not involved in any of that, although I'm aware we did re-open classic for a while. As for playing from 2004, you're not the only one, I've not overlooked your opinion. As for the comment about reading the forums and the god armour f2p, that's nothing to do with this thread and wasn't posted in a reaction to any recent update. If you have feedback on that I can only say take it to the suggestion forums, but be aware it is probably like that as a design decision.

 

@Bearsmith:

You get it :)

 

@Swendler1337:

Your opponents attack and your defence creates the misses. The attackers strength determines the zeroes.

 

@Twindrags3:

Familiars damage dealt will be vibrant to the owner and the person it hit, having a separate icon is something I was looking into, no promises, but it will show what type of damage the familiar used (so a range one for the steel titans attack for example). The "diamond" formation is gone in WIP, its using a column and [email protected] question.

 

@Dan Halen:

Thanks for your opinion. Making core systems such as this toggle-able is far more complex than other things as many players can see what is going on the screen at the same time (not like customising incoming PM's). As I've said before we aren't copying any other game, we are just trying to bring in some functionality/feedback/visuals improvements.

 

@Wokdonka:

I can't really get into defence acting as damage reduction.. but I'd love to think it could be one day. For now it does in a side way - as in leveling defence means you can wear damage reduction equipment that lower levels cannot.

 

@Chode Squad:

No changes are being made as response to the power of any item in the game with this update, this is to allow increased feedback support for people who (at the moment) have no feedback on what their equipment is doing.

 

@Nathan11:

This uses a very similar system to the original, just expanded so it can support a bit more. The underlying answer here is that it shouldn't introduce any lag based on the new functionality. I've not seen any slowdown, but it's something we strain the WIP servers on at some point to ensure its the case.

 

@xMr Impact:

I'm nothing to do with GP or the GE so I can only say take the concern elsewhere from this thread to the suggestions forums where it'll hopefully be bought to the attention of the appropriate people. As for noobfriendly - I thought people hated Modern Warfare 2 because its a camp-fest.

 

@Sky Invictus:

I'll try and get a moment to look at what feedback the spirit shields will show, thanks.

 

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He said he was going to post something on Monday, did he? I've not seen it posted in this topic and too lazy to go check for myself :P

 

I did the work for you:

198-199-7-61486718

page 68.

 

Cheers, thanks a lot. Lots of interesting things there :).

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Changed the font so you don't have to read "all that text" :rolleyes:

 

Every single thing you said was addressed the first time, but thank you for proving the following point!

I'm stuck repeating myself or explaining things one should already know before arguing this...

Bravo. I bet you'll reply with another one line response that either has no relevance whatsoever to the conversation again or something I addressed pages ago again.

You may have responded, but didn't understand. I meant that it appeared the hit splats were being stacked vertically in the tests. While this works on a greater demon, who is as tall as a two story house, or that new thunderous guy who is as tall as a three story house, it probably just wont do for a small cave crawler. We'll have to wait to see what he comes up with to overcome this limitation.

Looks like it has been addressed actually.

?198,199,7,61486718,goto,3"]Mod Chris L

Six hitsplats for everyone. One problem down, 20 to go...


Player since 2004. All skills 1M+ XP.

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"If it were possible to cure evils by lamentation..., then gold would be a less valuable thing than weeping." - Sophocles

"Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws." - Plato

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I like the overall concept. If it was me developing this, I'd consider these:

 

1. Healsplats should be visible to all, but they are of a lower priority than Hitsplats, so they don't appear if the 6 slots are filled.

2. No icons to the side. Instead, the type of damage (defined by what defensive qualities it considers when hitting or missing, so magical melee is considered magic) is shown by the shape of the splat itself. Also, differentiate between slash, crush, and stab.

3. Consider an animation for damage being blocked, similar to a magic squib or a reflect curse, eliminating the need for a 'Misssplat' entirely.

4. A gold edge around a splat to signify a maximum hit.

5. If you're feeling adventurous, do some animated splats for those with higher graphics settings.

6. Stat reduction splats?


~ W ~

 

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1. Healsplats should be visible to all, but they are of a lower priority than Hitsplats, so they don't appear if the 6 slots are filled.

 

Please god no, don't give the pkers any more to complain about...

 

I can just see it... "Swordfish noob"


O.O

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1. Healsplats should be visible to all, but they are of a lower priority than Hitsplats, so they don't appear if the 6 slots are filled.

 

Please god no, don't give the pkers any more to complain about...

 

I can just see it... "Swordfish noob"

 

As in because Swordfish are relatively cheap or because of the sheer act of healing yourself (*shock horror*)? In any case, they'll find excuses to make another 'x noob' insult anyway. It won't do any harm.


~ W ~

 

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Good point. The bloodveld do have a "magical melee" attack - but perhaps in a way people haven't thought about. Usually when an NPC looks at it's chance to hit, it compares it to your defensive stats. For example if an NPC is going to crush you, it'll compare to your crush defence. Bloodvelds work differently in that they compare their melee attack vs your magic defence. The attack is actually just a melee one, but the way it gets there is magical. To that degree it'll show a melee hitmark. Hope that helps

 

I don't get it.


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Good point. The bloodveld do have a "magical melee" attack - but perhaps in a way people haven't thought about. Usually when an NPC looks at it's chance to hit, it compares it to your defensive stats. For example if an NPC is going to crush you, it'll compare to your crush defence. Bloodvelds work differently in that they compare their melee attack vs your magic defence. The attack is actually just a melee one, but the way it gets there is magical. To that degree it'll show a melee hitmark. Hope that helps

I don't get it.

An usual melee attack compares the attacker's MELEE ATTACK stat with the defender's MELEE DEFENSE stat after which (if it hits) it deals MELEE damage. Bloodvelds attack compares the bloodveld's MELEE ATTACK stat with the defender's MAGIC DEFENSE stat and deals MELEE damage .. thus a magical melee attack.

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Good point. The bloodveld do have a "magical melee" attack - but perhaps in a way people haven't thought about. Usually when an NPC looks at it's chance to hit, it compares it to your defensive stats. For example if an NPC is going to crush you, it'll compare to your crush defence. Bloodvelds work differently in that they compare their melee attack vs your magic defence. The attack is actually just a melee one, but the way it gets there is magical. To that degree it'll show a melee hitmark. Hope that helps

I don't get it.

An usual melee attack compares the attacker's MELEE ATTACK stat with the defender's MELEE DEFENSE stat after which (if it hits) it deals MELEE damage. Bloodvelds attack compares the bloodveld's MELEE ATTACK stat with the defender's MAGIC DEFENSE stat and deals MELEE damage .. thus a magical melee attack.

 

 

Ah now I get it.


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Good point. The bloodveld do have a "magical melee" attack - but perhaps in a way people haven't thought about. Usually when an NPC looks at it's chance to hit, it compares it to your defensive stats. For example if an NPC is going to crush you, it'll compare to your crush defence. Bloodvelds work differently in that they compare their melee attack vs your magic defence. The attack is actually just a melee one, but the way it gets there is magical. To that degree it'll show a melee hitmark. Hope that helps

 

I don't get it.

 

I'm curious to see how Jagex would show that as well.

 

Personally I don't mind. As long as it doesn't cause more lag.


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1. Healsplats should be visible to all, but they are of a lower priority than Hitsplats, so they don't appear if the 6 slots are filled.

 

Please god no, don't give the pkers any more to complain about...

 

I can just see it... "Swordfish noob"

 

As in because Swordfish are relatively cheap or because of the sheer act of healing yourself (*shock horror*)? In any case, they'll find excuses to make another 'x noob' insult anyway. It won't do any harm.

 

Nope, because people seem to /wrists if you have food better than theres.

 

And yes, they complain about everything, but no need to make it worse. Plus, i simply don't like the idea of people knowing what im eating or what im doing.


O.O

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