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Zaaps1

Lunar Mages of Daemonhiem Beware: The Fremnnick do not approve of your spells

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Basically, there's a pretty annoying and mildly abusable bug that occurs when a Lunar mage exits Daemonhiem. In this post I will explain how it occurs, warn you about it, and discuss why it is important that this is fixed.

[hide=Longer Version]

The Problem (tl;dr = next section)

I've noticed this for the first day Dungeoneering was released, and I've noticed it today. I've noticed it multiple times in between. It appears Daemonhiem does not take kindly to Lunar mages.

 

When I noticed this bug the first time, it was the second time I finished a dungeon. Being an avid farmer, my mind instantly said: "Ok Zaaps, you had your fun, now your snapdragons are calling for you". Ok strange voice in my head, I'll go farm. Now I'm a big fan of the Lunar spellbook, and unless I'm at Rock Lobsters or Barrows, I am on Lunars. So naturally, I am going to cast Spellbook Swap so I can go to the elusive Troll Stronghold patch.

 

Problem: I leave Daemonhiem, get everything ready, and suddenly realize I am on modern magic! How is this possible? I was on Lunars when I entered, how the heck did I get onto modern magic? I did NOT cast Spellbook Swap prior to this. I confirmed this fact by checking my chatbox and by casting a Trollhiem teleport. Sure enough, there was nothing in my chatbox to suggest I casted Spellbook Swap and I was still on modern magic after I arrived at my destination. "Ok, no big deal, I'll just use the handy supercompost I've stored at the Lep for emergencies like these, this is probably just a little bug, I'll stay away from Dungeoneering for a week. It'll probably be fixed then." So after the farming run I break an astral tab, turn back to Lunars, and no harm done.

 

No wait! It gets better. A few weeks later, I once again emerge victorious out of the dungeons of Daemonhiem. Ever since that first encounter, I had no problems with it switching me back to modern magic. However, this time, when I cast Spellbook Swap and teleported to Trollhiem, I miraculously remained on modern magic, despite the fact that I had already used by 1 cast. Ok, another emergency farming run, no big deal. Just to test it out, I alched a few random things in my bank, just to make sure I couldn't revert to Lunars by casting enough modern magic spells. No dice. Slightly more annoyed, I still had no big problem with sacrificing another astral tab.

 

Soon, I came over some sort of strange teenage-blindness syndrome and discovered that I could use Vengeance in Daemonhiem. Cool, it's a really useful spell! Well one day, I'm killing Night-Gazer with my team. When it's almost dead, I cast Vengeance Me, just in case I get hit, I could possibly kill the eye-thingy a bit quicker. Turns out I never had to use that Vengeance, so all is well and the Dungeon ends (no primal plateskirt for me, though). "Hey look, it's farming run time again!" Luckily, I remained on Lunars (which is the strange thing MOST OF THE TIME, I DO NOT SWITCH TO MODERN MAGIC WHEN LEAVING OR CASTING SPELLBOOK SWAP). However, while running past the Mountain Trolls, I noticed a neat "Taste Vengeance!" over my head.

 

My Vengeance status from within Daemonhiem carried over to the Overworld.

 

To make a long story short, I have been experiencing both problems sporadically since then. It's really getting annoying, since I'm out of both Astral Tabs and GoP Tokens and can't muster enough willpower to play that minigame again. [/hide]

 

The Problem (tl;dr section)

While leaving a dungeon in Daemonhiem, there's a small chance you are switched from Lunar/Ancients to Modern Magic. If you cast Spellbook Swap after leaving Daemonhiem, you also may remain on Modern Magic after you cast your 1 Modern Magic spell.

 

While leaving a dungeon in Daemonhiem, if you have a standing Vengeance status, it will carry over to the Overworld, granting you the power of Vengeance even though you casted it in the dungeon.

 

 

 

[hide=Why this is a problem, and how to avoid this bug]

Why this is an Issue

There's plenty of room for bug abuse here. The obvious answer is that players can get free Vengeances. Not such a big deal, since it's only a few thousand coins saved, although it is a tad unfair for other players.

 

Also, there's not much players can do with "Cast a Lunar Spell + Instantly change and stay on Modern Magic". What's the worse that kid can do? Not much.

 

However, and this is total speculation, if the bug switches you to Modern Magic as long as you cast a spell (eg. it doesn't have to be Spellbook Swap), then we have a problem. If a player can cast any Lunars/Ancient spell, then be able to fire off Fire Surges, this is a MAJOR BUG and would need to be immediately fixed. Why? Well let's say you are walking in single combat in a BH world. How would you like it if you were suddenly frozen and then teleblocked, then faced with a barrage of Fire Surges? That's not friendly.

 

Again, that is total speculation, as I am not sure whether only Spellbook Swap triggers this bug. Perhaps not, is the obvious reply. However, remember that you CAN revert back to Modern Magics simply by leaving a dungeon, so it's not impossible.

 

And of course, who wants to travel back to Lunar Isle to switch to Lunars all the time? Not this man.

 

Plus, the way I farm is a little unique. Since I am on Lunars, I plant the seed first, THEN fertilize the patch. This is because Fertile Soil will add supercompost to patches, even if they are occupied by weeds or plants. This method is slightly faster than doing it the reverse way and it's less clicks. Plus, prior to FTP3, it reduced the chance of being interrupted by weed growth, and it habit stayed.

 

Thus, if I only noticed I was on modern magic AFTER I planted the seed, I'd have a patch without supercompost. Not a big deal in the long run, but it's sure annoying.

 

How to Avoid this Bug

Assuming, of course, you WANT to avoid this bug. Generally, I noticed that I only revert to Modern Mage while I casted Spellbook Swap while on the premises of Daemonhiem. Thus, if you want to avoid leaving your Lunar Spellbook, you should teleport somewhere before casting the spell. Maybe glory to Edgeville, or something. Be aware, however, that does not always work. One time, this bug occured when I used Spellbook Swap at Mobilizing Armies, but that only happened once as opposed to the 5-7 times it happened in Daemonhiem.

 

Also, it's fairly rare. That doesn't mean, however, that you shouldn't take precautions. What's 1 glory tele anyway? Not much, and it's better than having to go all the way to Lunar Isle or wait for someone to Telegroup you.

 

I don't think many of you would complain if you had a free Vengeance ;), so that one isn't necessary to avoid.[/hide]

 

Conclusion

I just wanted to warn you all about this bug I have encountered quite a few times. I also wanted to see if anyone else had encounted the same problem, to make sure Jagex isn't out to get me. Anyway, thanks for your time, and if you want to speculate about the possibilities of abuse, that's fine with me.

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Quite a long read for a bug, but I enjoyed it :3


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You see, I only notice stuff like that AFTER I finish my rambling >.>

 

EDIT: Now with 35% less Wall-of-Text!

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I have never experienced this problem, as I am on the Modern Spellbook most of the time. However, I have heard other people complain about this.


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Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's only 1 veng. That's not gamebreaking.

 

Right, I'm not overly concerned about that. It's only a nuance.

 

I AM concerned about being able to switch to Modern Magic if you can cast any Lunar/Ancient spell.

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's only 1 veng. That's not gamebreaking.

 

Right, I'm not overly concerned about that. It's only a nuance.

 

I AM concerned about being able to switch to Modern Magic if you can cast any Lunar/Ancient spell.

The veng stops you from switching during sb swap or something? I'm sorry I really cba to read that wall... :x


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Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's only 1 veng. That's not gamebreaking.

 

Right, I'm not overly concerned about that. It's only a nuance.

 

I AM concerned about being able to switch to Modern Magic if you can cast any Lunar/Ancient spell.

The veng stops you from switching during sb swap or something? I'm sorry I really cba to read that wall... :x

 

While leaving a dungeon in Daemonhiem, there's a small chance you are switched from Lunar/Ancients to Modern Magic. If you cast Spellbook Swap after leaving Daemonhiem, you also may remain on Modern Magic after you cast your 1 Modern Magic spell.

 

Ok they're independent of each other. I've never had both occur at once, but I suppose it could happen.

 

What happens with the Spellbook Swap bug (a misnomer, but w/e) is that you will abruptly switch from your current spellbook to Modern Magic. You do not HAVE to use Spellbook Swap to trigger this bug, but it happens much more often if you do. It's only happened to me on the Lunar spellbook, so idk if it works for Ancients.

 

IF IT DOES, then we have a problem, because if you can ice barrage -> teleblock, you can force someone to fight you in PvP.

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's only 1 veng. That's not gamebreaking.

 

Right, I'm not overly concerned about that. It's only a nuance.

 

I AM concerned about being able to switch to Modern Magic if you can cast any Lunar/Ancient spell.

The veng stops you from switching during sb swap or something? I'm sorry I really cba to read that wall... :x

 

While leaving a dungeon in Daemonhiem, there's a small chance you are switched from Lunar/Ancients to Modern Magic. If you cast Spellbook Swap after leaving Daemonhiem, you also may remain on Modern Magic after you cast your 1 Modern Magic spell.

 

Ok they're independent of each other. I've never had both occur at once, but I suppose it could happen.

 

What happens with the Spellbook Swap bug (a misnomer, but w/e) is that you will abruptly switch from your current spellbook to Modern Magic. You do not HAVE to use Spellbook Swap to trigger this bug, but it happens much more often if you do. It's only happened to me on the Lunar spellbook, so idk if it works for Ancients.

 

IF IT DOES, then we have a problem, because if you can ice barrage -> teleblock, you can force someone to fight you in PvP.

oooh

Yes, I've had that happen to me a couple of times when I was originally on ancients. How would you manage an ice barrage+ tb when the bug switches your book to normal though?


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Well remember this is speculation and under the assumption that a player can figure out how to execute this bug every time.

 

You'd go into a PvP world. You're on Ancients right now. You cast Ice Barrage, due to the bug, casting this spell causes you to revert to Modern Magic. Once you are on Modern Magic, you can cast teleblock.

 

You can then proceed to Fire Surge the hell out of that guy, or just AGS or claw him or something, and he can neither run nor teleport.

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Well remember this is speculation and under the assumption that a player can figure out how to execute this bug every time.

 

You'd go into a PvP world. You're on Ancients right now. You cast Ice Barrage, due to the bug, casting this spell causes you to revert to Modern Magic. Once you are on Modern Magic, you can cast teleblock.

 

You can then proceed to Fire Surge the hell out of that guy, or just AGS or claw him or something, and he can neither run nor teleport.

If ice barrage splashes the entire plan is in turmoil. Besides, the same thing can be done exclusively on normal with just 5 seconds less hold time. It's not all that bad.

Now if you could switch back to ancients permanently after switching to normal, TB+ Ancients= people gonna have a problem.

I'd be fine with tb+ ancients tho...


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Right, it could miss, but what if it doesn't.

 

Why do people so adamantly oppose a remote-spellbook switching feature other than Spellbook Swap? It's because the potential 400+ Ice Barrage damage + claw/AGS spec is practically a guaranteed KO and there's NOTHING your target can do about it.

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Right, it could miss, but what if it doesn't.

 

Why do people so adamantly oppose a remote-spellbook switching feature other than Spellbook Swap? It's because the potential 400+ Ice Barrage damage + claw/AGS spec is practically a guaranteed KO and there's NOTHING your target can do about it.

We'll, Jagex will probably add something like that in the future anyways and we have crap like that now. So its nothing new really.


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Well, I've definitely noticed this. More then once I've exited Damonheim on standard, even though I always try to stay on Lunars.

 

But, how is the venge thing a glitch? You cast vengeance on yourself, the spell effect carries until you log out or you use it. Theoretically, it should work the opposite way too - I don't get why this is a bug.

 

But yeah, if you somehow got ancients working with barrage and telebock, that'd be quite the bug to abuse. Can't see it working though, seeing as the spellswap bug only works with, well, spellswap. If it changes you from ancients to standard when you leave, that's annoying but not game breaking. But spellswap doesn't randomly switch you to standard after a spell, it just doesn't switch back. So unless Ancient Spellbook got spellswap, it's not a problem. If they do, you can teleblock then ice barrage anyways.

 

It's still damned annoying, being switch to standard. I like Lunar Magic, because if I *really* want a standard or ancient spell, spellswap. Then again, I'm actually alching my random crap now, and enchanting rings from nests o.O


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This has driven me nuts since it started, and it's been like this since before the ring updates... It really doesn't help when I string amulets with the Lunar book and do farm runs with Swap spellbooks to pass the time between dungeons.

 

This must be fixed Jagex! <_<

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Why can't we just have all 3 spellbooks at once? Same with both prayers and curses.

 

To switch, you can simply click on the "tab" within the spellbook/prayer. If you wanted to switch from ancients to lunars, you can click on the lunar tab to switch.

 

It's THAT simple, why not make the system like that? :rolleyes:


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Luckily it hasnt happened to me, it sounds really annoying. Especially for someone who doesnt keep a pile of lunar tabs handy.

 

About the wildy theory though, I don't think it would work. Speculation here as it hasnt happened to me (and people rarely spellbook swap to ancients) but surely if you spellbook swapped for a barrage, you will remain in ancients, not suddenly changed from ancients to regular, right?

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Why can't we just have all 3 spellbooks at once? Same with both prayers and curses.

 

To switch, you can simply click on the "tab" within the spellbook/prayer. If you wanted to switch from ancients to lunars, you can click on the lunar tab to switch.

 

It's THAT simple, why not make the system like that? :rolleyes:

 

Because if you can TB + barrage + venge someone, they are going to die. Period. We can't switch between prayers/curses and the three spellbooks because it'd be horribly unbalanced. You give up certain advantages to have other advantages.


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Why can't we just have all 3 spellbooks at once? Same with both prayers and curses.

 

To switch, you can simply click on the "tab" within the spellbook/prayer. If you wanted to switch from ancients to lunars, you can click on the lunar tab to switch.

 

It's THAT simple, why not make the system like that? :rolleyes:

 

Because if you can TB + barrage + venge someone, they are going to die. Period. We can't switch between prayers/curses and the three spellbooks because it'd be horribly unbalanced. You give up certain advantages to have other advantages.

 

How about switching spellbooks would remove all the effects the previous spellbook had? LIke remove the teleblock or vengeance, or the freeze from the ice barrage.

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Why can't we just have all 3 spellbooks at once? Same with both prayers and curses.

 

To switch, you can simply click on the "tab" within the spellbook/prayer. If you wanted to switch from ancients to lunars, you can click on the lunar tab to switch.

 

It's THAT simple, why not make the system like that? :rolleyes:

 

Because if you can TB + barrage + venge someone, they are going to die. Period. We can't switch between prayers/curses and the three spellbooks because it'd be horribly unbalanced. You give up certain advantages to have other advantages.

 

How about switching spellbooks would remove all the effects the previous spellbook had? LIke remove the teleblock or vengeance, or the freeze from the ice barrage.

 

Would still be OP to have all of those options, spells, and teleports at your fingertips.


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To clarify a few things:

 

1. Vengeance is not supposed to remain active in the Overworld. Like everything else in Daemonhiem, it should reset when you leave. You don't keep boosted stats, why should you keep Vengeance?

 

2. It is not exclusive to Spellbook Swap. My reasoning is that if you can trigger this bug simply by leaving Daemonhiem, then you might be able to trigger it with any spell.

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I was Barraging Rock Lobs. I decided to go do a few floors with friends. When I came out I was :( My camel poop was out too.


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I think the bigger issue here is not the possible ability to abuse the bug, but the fact that this shouldn't be happening at all. It is a bug whether it is heavily abusable or not, and should be brought up so that it can be fixed.


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I think the bigger issue here is not the possible ability to abuse the bug, but the fact that this shouldn't be happening at all. It is a bug whether it is heavily abusable or not, and should be brought up so that it can be fixed.

 

Yes, I agree, every bug needs to be prompted fixed.

 

But I think the sheer magnitude of bug reports Jagex receives makes that a little difficult. So it's important to point about dangerous potential abuses so Jagex can prioritize which bugs they deal with first.

 

For example, I'd rather have this bug fixed than some grammar error in Roving Elves.

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You don't keep boosted stats...

Actually, I remember coming out of a 5 man mass in daemonhiem with 107 magic. Don't know if it effected anything though.


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