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#41
Nadril
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That plus you level up and have a talent tree that applies to all heroes and you need to grind out or buy heroes.

#42
Bows
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I play HoN a lot and am working on getting into playing it more competitively.

As far as LoL goes I have not played it however I think the mechanics that they changed over from DoTA are dumb and only helped to dumb down the game (towers doing more damage, no denies, gameplay is slower paced and fights last a lot longer). In all honesty I should play the game to help support my opinion but in all honesty I'm not trying to review the game here so why should I bother.

That is all I'm going to really say about the game. Like I said I don't feel comfortable "Debating" about a game I have never played.

So its another version of DotA with less heroes, no denies (._. noobgame), slower paced gameplay and longer teamfights?
I fail to see how this is better than DotA/HoN

To each his own, Felix.

#43
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I play HoN a lot and am working on getting into playing it more competitively.

As far as LoL goes I have not played it however I think the mechanics that they changed over from DoTA are dumb and only helped to dumb down the game (towers doing more damage, no denies, gameplay is slower paced and fights last a lot longer). In all honesty I should play the game to help support my opinion but in all honesty I'm not trying to review the game here so why should I bother.

That is all I'm going to really say about the game. Like I said I don't feel comfortable "Debating" about a game I have never played.

So its another version of DotA with less heroes, no denies (._. noobgame), slower paced gameplay and longer teamfights?
I fail to see how this is better than DotA/HoN


There are now over 60 champions in the game, of which I can play all except the new ones. I am one of those players who plays all the champs, and knows how to play against other champs, but then again to be in the top 500 you need to be able to do this. Obviously I have champions which am better at and those which I am worse at but I can still play the majority at a very high standard.

The no denies front, I think it actually adds to the game a bit. Rather than, haha I last hit that minion before you did therefore you get no exp or gold, in the same way in LoL you actually have to get the last hit and push the enemy players away without losing your last hits and pushing the lane as a whole, so it takes more skill in movement and the laning phase is more active rather than focussed on minions and levelling. It has not dumbed it down at all but just gives a different perspective and way you lane, if you lane at all for that matter.

The gameplay over all is faster since you can be out of your lane before 2 minutes and a lot of the time, I am personally out of my lane before 10 minutes, taking jungle buffs and ganking around even on a tank. I think fast teamfights aren't necessarily the best thing either, it means you have to get a good team position as a whole, and keep a good position, rather than just a good starting position with a fast teamfight. If you get your positioning wrong you can abuse the other teams overconfidence (For example 2v5 clutches in teamfights all down to positioning and skillshots) or something similar, and it keeps you thinking even if you do have the champion advantage.

The only major problem with this game is the fact that it does have that MMO feel to it. Rather than HoN where you get thrown straight into the deep end (Pretty much at least), this game takes time, you level up outside of the actual battles and you get the masteries and runes which you get to customise etc. This means it takes time to get to the higher level but if you aren't half decent by the time you get to level 30 then you probably should not be playing a game like this. And as Nadril said, grind grind grind.
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#44
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It's a pretty fun game, just started playing last month. I usually only play on an arranged team because about 90% of the time when I solo queue, at least one of my teammates leave.

I use Rammus and Gragas.

#45
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My thoughts:

The no denies front, I think it actually adds to the game a bit. Rather than, haha I last hit that minion before you did therefore you get no exp or gold, in the same way in LoL you actually have to get the last hit and push the enemy players away without losing your last hits and pushing the lane as a whole, so it takes more skill in movement and the laning phase is more active rather than focussed on minions and levelling. It has not dumbed it down at all but just gives a different perspective and way you lane, if you lane at all for that matter.


I have to disagree with this. If you think denies = slower gameplay or less active gameplay you are wrong. I couldn't see not having denies in a game like this, if gives the babysitter(s) in a lane something else to do other than harass. (also denies are 1/3 or 2/3 XP depending on your range from the creep)

The gameplay over all is faster since you can be out of your lane before 2 minutes and a lot of the time, I am personally out of my lane before 10 minutes, taking jungle buffs and ganking around even on a tank. I think fast teamfights aren't necessarily the best thing either, it means you have to get a good team position as a whole, and keep a good position, rather than just a good starting position with a fast teamfight. If you get your positioning wrong you can abuse the other teams overconfidence (For example 2v5 clutches in teamfights all down to positioning and skillshots) or something similar, and it keeps you thinking even if you do have the champion advantage.


Again if you think people just stay in their lanes in DoTA/HoN you're wrong. Sure a hard carry will most likely rice farm their lane up a good bit but support players are constantly roaming around. The big thing in HoN (and still DoTA) right now is the Tri-lanes, where it is generally 1 carry and 2 support. The 2 support will stay out of lane as much as they can to give the carry solo XP while they stack creep camps, pull camps, gank other lanes... ect. Their entire goal is to just have that presence there.


Also positioning is much more important because in HoN/DoTA a misstep can mean a lot. It does put an emphasis on initiation but also puts an emphasis on proper positioning early on. Just because a fight is over quickly (generally) though doesn't mean positioning simply comes unimportant in a fight. In the middle of a fight if the soulstealer, for example, gets out of position to try and ult he'll get torn apart quickly. There is no breather room that you would get with a slower paced fight.


The only major problem with this game is the fact that it does have that MMO feel to it. Rather than HoN where you get thrown straight into the deep end (Pretty much at least), this game takes time, you level up outside of the actual battles and you get the masteries and runes which you get to customise etc. This means it takes time to get to the higher level but if you aren't half decent by the time you get to level 30 then you probably should not be playing a game like this. And as Nadril said, grind grind grind.


That's really the biggest issue I have with it. Other things I could maybe live without (but I prefer). That though is a deal breaker. The concept of having to level up your person in a competitive game is just dumb. Also having aspects other than the actual heroes statistics and skills that apply to them has to be a balancing NIGHTMARE.

#46
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My thoughts:
[snip]
Again if you think people just stay in their lanes in DoTA/HoN you're wrong. Sure a hard carry will most likely rice farm their lane up a good bit but support players are constantly roaming around. The big thing in HoN (and still DoTA) right now is the Tri-lanes, where it is generally 1 carry and 2 support. The 2 support will stay out of lane as much as they can to give the carry solo XP while they stack creep camps, pull camps, gank other lanes... ect. Their entire goal is to just have that presence there.

About tri lanes, in dota its generally two hide in forest and the one in the lane is usually a person with a ranged stun (Vengeful Spirit, Chaos Knight, Rogue Knight) and then he stuns and two pop out of the forest and deal a lot of damage in a short time (Slardar (Warstomp)+Jugger (Blade Fury, like 500dmg on lv1) work great). You get FB (+200g) and then you go back to the general 2 1 2 lane setup
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#47
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That's really the biggest issue I have with it. Other things I could maybe live without (but I prefer). That though is a deal breaker. The concept of having to level up your person in a competitive game is just dumb. Also having aspects other than the actual heroes statistics and skills that apply to them has to be a balancing NIGHTMARE.


I am thinking of WoW here for some reason, the game is relatively balanced at level 80 but before that some class are more powerful than others.

I didn't really feel that getting runes or levels give an unfair advantage because you acquire those easily while you are playing. The difference is really so small that you don't really notice anything, at least I don't. Balance wise nobody has ever complained about it so I have to assume it is done quite well, that or is very linear.

Then again I am not a very competitive player, I play to win but I could care less about that extra +.5% dodge chance.
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#48
Nadril
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That's really the biggest issue I have with it. Other things I could maybe live without (but I prefer). That though is a deal breaker. The concept of having to level up your person in a competitive game is just dumb. Also having aspects other than the actual heroes statistics and skills that apply to them has to be a balancing NIGHTMARE.


I am thinking of WoW here for some reason, the game is relatively balanced at level 80 but before that some class are more powerful than others.

I didn't really feel that getting runes or levels give an unfair advantage because you acquire those easily while you are playing. The difference is really so small that you don't really notice anything, at least I don't. Balance wise nobody has ever complained about it so I have to assume it is done quite well, that or is very linear.

Then again I am not a very competitive player, I play to win but I could care less about that extra +.5% dodge chance.


I just don't want to "grind" to get onto the competitive scene.

I'm not going to sit here and say I'm a competitive player in HoN (haven't played that long after all) but you still get the idea of what I'm getting at.

About tri lanes, in dota its generally two hide in forest and the one in the lane is usually a person with a ranged stun (Vengeful Spirit, Chaos Knight, Rogue Knight) and then he stuns and two pop out of the forest and deal a lot of damage in a short time (Slardar (Warstomp)+Jugger (Blade Fury, like 500dmg on lv1) work great). You get FB (+200g) and then you go back to the general 2 1 2 lane setup


Right now in HoN usually its a 4 man gank at the start. After the gank they either go to a 3 1 1 lane setup or a 2 2 1 setup. Thankfully tri-lane is sort of dying out in HoN which is good, it can be boring from a spectator PoV.

#49
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I just don't want to "grind" to get onto the competitive scene.

I'm not going to sit here and say I'm a competitive player in HoN (haven't played that long after all) but you still get the idea of what I'm getting at.


I understand even though I never had that kind of mind set. I mean I think if you are playing against the player of your level, then the levels and runes etc should not matter correct?
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#50
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I just don't want to "grind" to get onto the competitive scene.

I'm not going to sit here and say I'm a competitive player in HoN (haven't played that long after all) but you still get the idea of what I'm getting at.


I understand even though I never had that kind of mind set. I mean I think if you are playing against the player of your level, then the levels and runes etc should not matter correct?


If it's the same skill level I don't want someone to win because they have a better rune or could unlock/buy the OP FoTM hero. You might think something like 5% isn't a big deal but in a competitive enviroment it is. In HoN heroes have shifted in and out of the metagame due to small buffs and nerfs.


Pretty much I just don't want to grind that [cabbage] up and then grind more because I wanna play a different style character. It's dumb.

#51
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I just don't want to "grind" to get onto the competitive scene.

I'm not going to sit here and say I'm a competitive player in HoN (haven't played that long after all) but you still get the idea of what I'm getting at.


I understand even though I never had that kind of mind set. I mean I think if you are playing against the player of your level, then the levels and runes etc should not matter correct?


If it's the same skill level I don't want someone to win because they have a better rune or could unlock/buy the OP FoTM hero. You might think something like 5% isn't a big deal but in a competitive enviroment it is. In HoN heroes have shifted in and out of the metagame due to small buffs and nerfs.


Pretty much I just don't want to grind that [cabbage] up and then grind more because I wanna play a different style character. It's dumb.


Yeah indeed, there was a character that everyone considered Tier 3/4 and then one different character got nerfed a little, meaning that other carries took place and this Tier 3/4 champion suddenly shot up to Tier 1. (Ezrael was nerfed, and Kassadin jumped up).

I would say I like to be competetive in LoL, but I've slowly become better than all the people I usually play with apart from the top people who are all top 50 or 100. But when they get online they have a set team which they play with and use this team at tournaments etc so I never really get to play with them.

And believe me, the tiniest nerf or buff can mean the world at the top game. With every patch people need to change metagames, and sometimes, the entirety of the metagame rests on one new champion or very slight changes to characters.

Personally, if I had gone into HoN first rather than LoL, I probably would be playing that rather than LoL, it's just that I've become accustomed to everything on LoL and am pretty good at it too, which is all the better considering it is free as well.

Also, I respect the fact that denying and such in lanes adds a different dimension too it, but does not necessarily make it easier or harder, just changes the way the lane is played. I think the overall playstyle and general metagame is similar, just because of the games they are, but everyone has there opinion of course. I would probably say that the best HoN players would beat the best LoL players given enough time to play LoL, or if the LoL players were given enough time with HoN, but still, it would be a good game. And yes, most HoN players will destroy LoL players to start because the high ELO people do not actually play that often, but rather will play against other top ELO in practice games because the queue time for top ELO is 20+ minutes.

Laning phase on LoL differs from US to EU, but EU tops US in the high ELO (Apart from that Nunu/Vlad combo which was totally [developmentally delayed]ed and the EU should have won, but the US played it well), so I will take it from an EU point of view. We will usually run 2 1 2 but ideally, a 2 1 1 with a jungle is better, so it will always be the preferred option, especially if our team can bag a decent mage/melee tank (Like Amumu or Galio) with a melee/semitank jungle (Olaf/Warwick/Udyr) then it's game on.
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#52
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The only thing I'm going to say is I don't think many top DoTA teams transfered over to LoL. We have some that moved onto HoN (and have a lot of big name sponsorships such as eG, SK, MSI, KD) but yeah.

It's probably still fair to say that some of the old school Asian DoTA teams would stomp any LoL or HoN players.

And yes, most HoN players will destroy LoL players to start because the high ELO people do not actually play that often, but rather will play against other top ELO in practice games because the queue time for top ELO is 20+ minutes.


No such thing as in houses? Thats where a lot of the top level play comes from that aren't scrims or tournament matches in HoN. Than again do you have any way to actually make a custom game or is it all matchmaking based?



It really is too bad you didn't play HoN though. Thoughts on games aside there is just a lot more going on tournament wise compared to LoL. LoL has their one big tournament but HoN has a ton of them going on plus a recent CEVO season. Plus the EU scene in HoN is just getting massive, new teams coming into the scene every day it seems like that give the current top teams (eG, MSI, KD) a run for their money. I'd love to get into the US scene personally but just don't have enough people on my team to do so. (Team giving the business [BZi] :D). Plus most of us have no DoTA experience so we're kind of beat out by the guys with like 8 years experience.

#53
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BZi represent.

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#54
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@Nadril: Of course the old school Asain DotA teams would stomp any HoN or LoL players, lol. That's basically a given, universal fact.

#55
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It's probably still fair to say that some of the old school Asian DoTA teams would stomp any LoL or HoN players.

And yes, most HoN players will destroy LoL players to start because the high ELO people do not actually play that often, but rather will play against other top ELO in practice games because the queue time for top ELO is 20+ minutes.


No such thing as in houses? Thats where a lot of the top level play comes from that aren't scrims or tournament matches in HoN. Than again do you have any way to actually make a custom game or is it all matchmaking based?


Yeah this is what I mean, all the top players do in house games so they don't get matchmaked against awful people. But for most people matchmaking is the main way of playing.

League of Legends also has an SK Gaming team and Counter Logic Gaming team but there aren't really many tournaments at all.

I would play HoN but I don't want to dish out money to play it yet since I can't really remember it all that well.
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Great game being quite new to LoL.

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#57
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So many deaths... :shock:

I recently took up LoL (like a few weeks ago maybe?) and it's the first game of this type I've ever played before, but it's a really fun game. I've pretty much quit RS becuase of this now. I mostly play Ashe, as she was the first champ I played becuase she was my free week champion that was recommended to me, and I'd like to think I've got pretty good at playing her. Actually just got a solo ace last game, much better than when I started and went 1/15/3 :grin:
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#58
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So many deaths... :shock:

I recently took up LoL (like a few weeks ago maybe?) and it's the first game of this type I've ever played before, but it's a really fun game. I've pretty much quit RS becuase of this now. I mostly play Ashe, as she was the first champ I played becuase she was my free week champion that was recommended to me, and I'd like to think I've got pretty good at playing her. Actually just got a solo ace last game, much better than when I started and went 1/15/3 :grin:

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#59
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Longest game I have ever personally played, 6 baron kills that game. Funnily enough though, the 5 of us (I'm LOLCANADA btw) did a random match make before this game, and lost in ~40 mins to the three level 30s, the 23 and a random, and the game after that, we played them again. They had been trolling us pretty hard, and we trolled back, so we knew we'd need to win this game. We pretty much were guaranteed to win at like 40 minutes or so, and that's when they started to shut up, but it would take another hour to actually win. >.<
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#60
Nadril
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Me and my roomate got bored this weekend and downloaded LoL. These are my thoughts from 2 days of playing:



I started off choosing "expert" for my skill level. I was hoping this meant I wouldn't have to deal with absolute [developmentally delayed]ation but, of course, I did. A lot of these games currently seem to be decided by who has the most smurf accounts and who has the least leavers/afk. Coming from HoN where I almost never had to deal with people leaving its a bit awkward to say the least.

I've been going mid for the most part or laning with my roomate. Mid I generally just stomp their smurf player. I still am annoyed because even though i'm a good last hitter that doesn't really... matter. I still manage to out CS my opponent (what is a good CS rate @10m anyways?) but it sucks that I can't really deny them to get them under leveled and in some matchups harass just isn't an option. (I'm used to mid in hon where I'll out harass my opponent a ton, LoL it feels like we both sort of sit back and creep).

Team fights I will say do end pretty quickly, despite what I thought before. Currently it gets to a point where there is just a ton of aoe going off and since I don't know what half of these heroes do it just ends fast.

Character wise I've played mostly Fiddlesticks, Ryze, Tristana and working on Twisted Fate now. Ryze I've had some good luck with (21/1 one game). Tristana and Twisted Fate my issue is just dealing with the large amount of tanky characters there always seems to be on the enemy team. I can get really good farm but they just eat up all my damage. If there anything that is like a BKB for this game? I feel like there aren't that many damage + survivability items or I haven't looked hard enough.

You mentioned earlier that TS uses AP but from what I read in guides it pretty much said go attack damage and such because AP was nerfed for him. Trying to figure out what items to use on him to carry hard.


Back onto my thoughts though I think that, ultimatly, LoL just feels like a "chill" version of DoTA. There is no rage, everyone can pretty much use items effectively and "carry" a game. (in the loose sense of the word). I'm sure it changes but there is a lot more leeway in lanes which is decent. I don't think it's a competitively viable game still by any means and from a spectator point of view I still think HoN is more interesting to watch. I also do feel like HoN is more polished and the animation is better than LoL still.

But ultimately? It's kind of fun.

---


Currently level 10. When do people stop being such downies and when do I stop having a leaver+ a game. Also what are some good carry style heroes to take over a game with.

edit: towers still piss me off to no end compared to dota/hon.

e2:

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