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Returning lost dung rewards


Urza285

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Heh, so you want cheaper prices after losing it because you the only way you can get the currency is a skill?

 

Are you illiterate or something? Was that my only argument?

 

SPOILERS: No, it wasn't.

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Chaotic weapons are the best weapons in the game for almost every situation.

So what? Is that why you want a cheaper prices? You don't get cheaper prices if you lose your divine ss. Why do you want it cheaper then?

Assuming you can make 5M/h, and getting a chaotic weapon takes 30 hours (normal for the average dungeoneer, if a bit low), it's worth at least 150M.

So what? Is that why you want a cheaper prices? You don't get cheaper prices if you lose your red h'ween mask. Why do you want it cheaper then?

People don't go out their way to get chaotic weapons like they do with activities. It's THE most important part of leveling dungeoneering.

So what? You need to do something else besides your daily activities to get the currency? If you enjoy dungeoneering, you should not want lower prices because the tokens come while you're having fun. If you're just doing dungeoneering for the chaotic equipment, then you should be more careful where you take that weapon.

 

Admit it: the only reason you want the price lower for the 2nd time you buy is because you don't like doing all that effort to get it again. And guess what? It is exactly the same with other expensive items, but maybe you like gathering gp more?

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If I die when mining rune, I don't lose the ability to mine rune, do I? If I am training slayer and an abyssal demon kills me, do I lose 3m xp?

 

Skills are earnt abilities. Minigames/Activites are earnt items.

 

While I still believe dungeoneering is more of a minigame than a skill, if Jagex is going to call it a skill, they should make it work like one. At least the ability to buy it back for something other than tokens would be nice...

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The only problem is that a chaotic item is, in fact, an item an not an ability. If jagex made it so you could buy it for cash from the smuggler once you got 80 dungeoneering, there would be no problem. If you die with your chaotic item, you don't lose the ability to wield/wear it, do you? You just lose the item on its own.

 

Edit: and no you don't lose the ability to mine rune, but you do lose your pickaxe, and if you want to mine rune again, you'll have to buy it back. For full price.

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Chaotic weapons are the best weapons in the game for almost every situation.

So what? Is that why you want a cheaper prices? You don't get cheaper prices if you lose your divine ss. Why do you want it cheaper then?

Assuming you can make 5M/h, and getting a chaotic weapon takes 30 hours (normal for the average dungeoneer, if a bit low), it's worth at least 150M.

So what? Is that why you want a cheaper prices? You don't get cheaper prices if you lose your red h'ween mask. Why do you want it cheaper then?

People don't go out their way to get chaotic weapons like they do with activities. It's THE most important part of leveling dungeoneering.

So what? You need to do something else besides your daily activities to get the currency? If you enjoy dungeoneering, you should not want lower prices because the tokens come while you're having fun. If you're just doing dungeoneering for the chaotic equipment, then you should be more careful where you take that weapon.

 

Admit it: the only reason you want the price lower for the 2nd time you buy is because you don't like doing all that effort to get it again. And guess what? It is exactly the same with other expensive items, but maybe you like gathering gp more?

 

1. Divine Spirit Shields are an extremely rare drop from the Corporeal Beast. Want to know the difference between monster drops and items obtained from skills or activities? Monster drops are entirely random.

 

2. See my first answer. Red Halloween Masks are buyable on the GE. If you lose one and you already have the money to buy another, you can do so. If you lose a CLS, you lose the only true benefit of leveling Dungeoneering. You can get one back if you happen to have 200k tokens, but you got those 200k tokens from training the SKILL (not minigame, not camping a boss monster). If I buy full Bandos and lose it, I've only lost GP, not skill experience. If I hit 80 DGing, buy a CLS, then lose it, my 80 DGing is now tantamount to firemaking (read: useless).

 

3. You're absolutely right. I do not want to put in the same effort to get a second chaotic weapon. You know what else would be fair? If you die while using overloads, ALL of your overloads (and extremes, because overloads are made from extremes) should disappear from your bank. That way, you have to earn the GP a second time JUST FOR THE OVERLOADS, as it's useless to have a herblore level higher than 96.

 

Admit it: Rewards from skills should be treated much differently than items bought by GP or items earned through activities.

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The only problem is that a chaotic item is, in fact, an item an not an ability.

 

You've hit it. The biggest problem is that the rewards are purely items. Yes, TECHNICALLY at a certain level you gain the ability to use it, but since you almost always get the tokens much LATER than you get the level, this restriction is nominal only. Can you access rune rocks before you can mine them? Hell yes. Can you access a Scroll of Life before the required level to use it? Hell no. So sure you can say "by getting 80 dungeoneering, you earn the ability to wield a CLS", but that means nothing. The real restriction here isn't the level, it's the tokens.

 

Edit: and no you don't lose the ability to mine rune, but you do lose your pickaxe, and if you want to mine rune again, you'll have to buy it back. For full price.

 

So grab a free bronze pickaxe and go on your merry way. How much LONGER does it take to get a CLS than any random pickaxe off the street?

 

Dungeoneering is best compared to slayer. You can stand side-by-side with a Dark Beast and let it beat the crap out of you, but if you die you can still kill Dark Beasts.

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Chaotic weapons don't protect over much. If they had the same alch value as spirit shields/dfs then we wouldn't have this problem. Honestly who made them prot less than whips?

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Well, then there are 2 sollutions:

a) Lower the price off all items, again

b) Increase the amount of tokens gained from dungeons

 

Something like buying it back cheaper the 2nd time just doesn't make any sense at all.

 

 

1. Divine Spirit Shields are an extremely rare drop from the Corporeal Beast. Want to know the difference between monster drops and items obtained from skills or activities? Monster drops are entirely random.

 

I was talking about a bought one, or else there would be no connection.

 

2. See my first answer. Red Halloween Masks are buyable on the GE. If you lose one and you already have the money to buy another, you can do so. If you lose a CLS, you lose the only true benefit of leveling Dungeoneering. You can get one back if you happen to have 200k tokens, but you got those 200k tokens from training the SKILL (not minigame, not camping a boss monster). If I buy full Bandos and lose it, I've only lost GP, not skill experience. If I hit 80 DGing, buy a CLS, then lose it, my 80 DGing is now tantamount to firemaking (read: useless).

 

Chaotic items are buyable from the smuggler. If you lose one and you already have the tokens to buy another, you can do so. If you lose a H'ween mask, you lose the only true benefit of earning money. You can get one back if you happen to have 130m cash, but you got those 130m cash by working for it, and it wasn't done in just 9 hours (no party room). If I buy a Chaotic item and lose it, I've only lost tokens, not skill experience. If I hit 130m, buy a H'ween mask, then lose it, my 130m is now gone (read: gone).

 

See what I did there?

 

 

3. You're absolutely right. I do not want to put in the same effort to get a second chaotic weapon. You know what else would be fair? If you die while using overloads, ALL of your overloads (and extremes, because overloads are made from extremes) should disappear from your bank. That way, you have to earn the GP a second time JUST FOR THE OVERLOADS, as it's useless to have a herblore level higher than 96.

 

It is only fair if you have only one overload. I'm not saying that if you lose a CLS but happen to have a 2nd one in your bank, that you have to lose the other to?

 

Admit it: Rewards from skills should be treated much differently than items bought by GP or items earned through activities.

 

Effort to gain GP = Effort to gain tokens

Fun to gain GP != Fun to gain tokens

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I rarely do this, but I think I'll forgo arguing this time around. You're clearly too stupid to comprehend the difference in value between GP and Dungeoneering experience (or you're just trolling, but I honestly believe you to be THAT stupid).

 

It comes down to this: I like my skill experience. I do not want to lose my skill experience. Chaotic weapons ARE skill experience. GP is not skill experience. I can only assume that you're a highly inefficient player who knows nothing of the costs (both time and money) of leveling a skill passed 50.

 

Have a nice day, and read the first quote in my signature until it sinks into your head.

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If you want to go that way, fine, then this will also be my last post on this topic and subject. Just try to look at it the way it is: It is an item. If you buy it, you have it, if you lose it, you don't. It is not a skill, it is not an ability, it is just an item, like there are thousands of them in runescape. The only difference is the currency you buy it with, and how to get that currency. That is the only difference between this item and a bronze dagger.

 

/argument

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If you want to go that way, fine, then this will also be my last post on this topic and subject. Just try to look at it the way it is: It is an item. If you buy it, you have it, if you lose it, you don't. It is not a skill, it is not an ability, it is just an item, like there are thousands of them in runescape. The only difference is the currency you buy it with, and how to get that currency. That is the only difference between this item and a bronze dagger.

 

/argument

 

But there's the problem.

 

It IS a skill.

 

It IS an ability

 

It is NOT an item.

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If you want to go that way, fine. Just try to look at it the way it is: It is an item. If you buy it, you have it, if you lose it, you don't. It is not a skill, it is not an ability, it is just an item, like there are thousands of them in runescape. The only difference is the currency you buy it with, and how to get that currency. That is the only difference between this item and a bronze dagger.

 

/argument

 

Who am I kidding? I can't stop arguing.

 

Your argument is based on semantics. :rolleyes: It is directly tied to Dungeoneering experience whether you like it or not. If you can prove, definitively, that the value of skill experience (dungeoneering experience, specifically) is a 1:1 ratio to the value of GP, you will have a point. Seeing as how you cannot prove this, you are wrong.

 

Once again, your levels are far too low for you to have any concept of the value of a skill.

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I'm going to take these arguments to private messages...

 

There's no need. This is a discussion. If you send me anything through PM, I will post it and rebut it here.

 

EDIT:

 

I am talking about the currency, not the experience.

 

The currency IS the experience. Once again, how is this not getting through your head?

 

 

Here a quote from you: Chaotic weapons are actually valued at much higher than 50M. Assuming you can make 5M/h, and getting a chaotic weapon takes 30 hours (normal for the average dungeoneer, if a bit low), it's worth at least 150M.

 

So 150m = 200k tokens, wich means 1 token (or 10x, but that doesn't matter because we are talking about the currency here) is worth 750gp.

 

I was assessing the theoretical GP value of the experience. There is no actual correlation between GP and dungeoneering experience.

 

You can go get tokens without caring about the dung xp, same as you can get whip drops without caring about the slay xp.

 

Absolutely, but skills are presumably trained for some sort of benefit. In the case of dungeoneering, the benefit is a chaotic weapon. Just because YOU train skills for [cabbage]s and giggles does not mean that skills are not first-and-foremost a way of enhancing your ability to compete with others or to help with something in some way. The benefit of training slayer is the ability to slay abyssal demons and other monsters. The benefit of training dungeoneering is access to chaotic weapons. Your argument works against you.

 

Also, funny argument, talking about my lvls and saying I can't possible have any experience about the value of a skill. Look at my FoG rating, and take about 8 minutes per game, 14 rating per game, and tell me how much hours that is, and then compare it to your 30 hours for the chaotic weapon.

 

Like I said, you have no concept of efficiency. Eight minutes per game is pretty bad, and it takes significantly less time to obtain a full set of battle robes (the only reason to play FoG other than fun) than it does to obtain a chaotic weapon.

 

Oh yeah, and post it if you want, I said i'm not going to post, but you can.

 

We'll see about that.

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I rarely do this, but I think I'll forgo arguing this time around. You're clearly too stupid to comprehend the difference in value between GP and Dungeoneering experience (or you're just trolling, but I honestly believe you to be THAT stupid).

 

It comes down to this: I like my skill experience. I do not want to lose my skill experience. Chaotic weapons ARE skill experience. GP is not skill experience. I can only assume that you're a highly inefficient player who knows nothing of the costs (both time and money) of leveling a skill passed 50.

 

Have a nice day, and read the first quote in my signature until it sinks into your head.

 

+1. He doesn't understand the difference between a SKILL and getting levels granting ABILITIES and MINIGAMES and being able to buy REWARDS.

 

The level needed is negligible here, in most cases. Once you get the LEVEL to use chaotic, and buy the weapon, you shouldn't have to spend the same amount ALL OVER AGAIN. It should have around half price.

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You bought an item, not an ability.

You earned an ability, not an item.

The item is the chaotic item, the ability is the ability to wield it.

If you earned the item, you should not have to spend tokens.

 

Also, my last message to morningrise:

 

Like I said, a chaotic item is an item, if you die while having on you still have the ability to wield one (if you have the other skills, of course)

Lost it? Big whoop, go get 2m dung xp and don't die again. Like I said (again) if you lose your precious divine, big whoop, go make enough money to buy one again. The only difference is the way the currency is obtained, and since you since the only thing we can use to compare the two currencies is time, we can come to a rough estimate of 750gp/token. Want more numbers? An onyx costs 14,8m gp or 2,7m tokkul. If we use this to get the tokkul/gp ratio, we get 0,18 tokkul/gp, wich we can use to get the token/tokkul ratio, wich is about 136,8 tokkul/token. See where I'm aiming at? You can compare currencies, and so you can compare the effort put in to getting them. 5m gp/hr? 6667 tokens/hr? Why would one have a cheap-return system? So you only have to put half the effort needed in it, while the other still need full effort? And did I forget to mention that you still have the ability to wield your chaotic weapon after you lose it? If you lose the weapon, you lose the weapon and weapon only.

"But you need to get 2m xp all over again! I have trained so hard to be able to wield that weapon, and now I need to do it again! I earned the skill lvl to own that weapon!"

Yeah right, I earned enough money for a santa hat but lost it, back for half price? No way.

Go hug your CLS before you lose it. Oh wait, you don't even have 80 dung yet, you can't possible know the value of having 80 dungeoneering!

 

Fun fact: to get a full Brobes set at the same speed as a chaotic weapon, one should win 196 fog matches in 10 minutes each, without losing a single time.

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You bought an item, not an ability.

You earned an ability, not an item.

The item is the chaotic item, the ability is the ability to wield it.

 

 

Yes, that's technically how it is.

 

Ask yourself though, is that how it should be?

 

Plus, I'll refer you to what I said before about the fact that earning the "ability" to wield chaotic is only a nominal restriction. It has no real power. In Dungeoneering, the levels aren't what restrict you, it's the tokens. You can say that "at x dunge you get the ability to use y", but in essence, it's meaningless.

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You bought an item, not an ability.

You earned an ability, not an item.

The item is the chaotic item, the ability is the ability to wield it.

If you earned the item, you should not have to spend tokens.

 

Also, my last message to morningrise:

 

Like I said, a chaotic item is an item, if you die while having on you still have the ability to wield one (if you have the other skills, of course)

Lost it? Big whoop, go get 2m dung xp and don't die again. Like I said (again) if you lose your precious divine, big whoop, go make enough money to buy one again. The only difference is the way the currency is obtained, and since you since the only thing we can use to compare the two currencies is time, we can come to a rough estimate of 750gp/token. Want more numbers? An onyx costs 14,8m gp or 2,7m tokkul. If we use this to get the tokkul/gp ratio, we get 0,18 tokkul/gp, wich we can use to get the token/tokkul ratio, wich is about 136,8 tokkul/token. See where I'm aiming at? You can compare currencies, and so you can compare the effort put in to getting them. 5m gp/hr? 6667 tokens/hr? Why would one have a cheap-return system? So you only have to put half the effort needed in it, while the other still need full effort? And did I forget to mention that you still have the ability to wield your chaotic weapon after you lose it? If you lose the weapon, you lose the weapon and weapon only.

"But you need to get 2m xp all over again! I have trained so hard to be able to wield that weapon, and now I need to do it again! I earned the skill lvl to own that weapon!"

Yeah right, I earned enough money for a santa hat but lost it, back for half price? No way.

Go hug your CLS before you lose it. Oh wait, you don't even have 80 dung yet, you can't possible know the value of having 80 dungeoneering!

 

Fun fact: to get a full Brobes set at the same speed as a chaotic weapon, one should win 196 fog matches in 10 minutes each, without losing a single time.

if it takes you 10 minutes to beat someone in fog your doing something horribly HORRIBLY wrong

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if it takes you 10 minutes to beat someone in fog your doing something horribly HORRIBLY wrong

 

That was aimed at a comment of morningrise, and don't forget there are 2 rounds...

 

 

Yes, that's technically how it is.

 

Ask yourself though, is that how it should be?

 

Plus, I'll refer you to what I said before about the fact that earning the "ability" to wield chaotic is only a nominal restriction. It has no real power. In Dungeoneering, the levels aren't what restrict you, it's the tokens. You can say that "at x dunge you get the ability to use y", but in essence, it's meaningless.

 

That is what I'm trying to say people, with the current situation, changing the re-buy cost would just be unfair compared with the tradable items.

If you want your cls back faster, there should be things like dungeons that give more tokens but less xp, only accesible after lvl 80 or so.

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You bought an item, not an ability.

You earned an ability, not an item.

The item is the chaotic item, the ability is the ability to wield it.

If you earned the item, you should not have to spend tokens.

 

Also, my last message to morningrise:

 

Like I said, a chaotic item is an item, if you die while having on you still have the ability to wield one (if you have the other skills, of course)

Lost it? Big whoop, go get 2m dung xp and don't die again. Like I said (again) if you lose your precious divine, big whoop, go make enough money to buy one again. The only difference is the way the currency is obtained, and since you since the only thing we can use to compare the two currencies is time, we can come to a rough estimate of 750gp/token. Want more numbers? An onyx costs 14,8m gp or 2,7m tokkul. If we use this to get the tokkul/gp ratio, we get 0,18 tokkul/gp, wich we can use to get the token/tokkul ratio, wich is about 136,8 tokkul/token. See where I'm aiming at? You can compare currencies, and so you can compare the effort put in to getting them. 5m gp/hr? 6667 tokens/hr? Why would one have a cheap-return system? So you only have to put half the effort needed in it, while the other still need full effort? And did I forget to mention that you still have the ability to wield your chaotic weapon after you lose it? If you lose the weapon, you lose the weapon and weapon only.

"But you need to get 2m xp all over again! I have trained so hard to be able to wield that weapon, and now I need to do it again! I earned the skill lvl to own that weapon!"

Yeah right, I earned enough money for a santa hat but lost it, back for half price? No way.

Go hug your CLS before you lose it. Oh wait, you don't even have 80 dung yet, you can't possible know the value of having 80 dungeoneering!

 

Fun fact: to get a full Brobes set at the same speed as a chaotic weapon, one should win 196 fog matches in 10 minutes each, without losing a single time.

 

This post was originally a PM to Rsriemis. I've edited out the insults.

 

You just ignored every single argument I've made to reiterate your incorrect point for the umpteenth time.

 

FUN FACT: I have 99 in the slowest skill in the game. I think I would know the concept of the value of skill experience. Never once did I say that one needs a level to grasp a concept. It is necessary, however, to have some semblance of experience to grasp a concept. You literally have not a single high-level skill. You have not put in the time and effort required to even begin to understand the value of said time and effort. I've put more time into slayer than you've put into your entire account and FoG rating TWICE over.

 

FUN FACT: It takes less than 8 hours of FoG to get a full battle robes set. I know because I've done it, and I'm in the process of doing it again.

 

FUN FACT: GP is not skill experience. Skill experience is not GP. I don't know how I can make this any clearer to you.

 

FUN FACT: A chaotic weapon IS skill experience. It is not just an item. SEMANTICS SEMANTICS SEMANTICS. I don't know if you know this, but YOU ARE ARGUING SEMANTICS AND THIS ISSUE IS NOT BLACK AND WHITE SO STOP DEBATING LIKE IT IS.

 

FUN FACT: Just so you don't get any ideas, I'm going to reiterate that GP is not skill experience. Losing a Santa Hat is literally NOTHING like losing a CLS. Santa Hats are limited items that have no purpose and are not tied to skill experience in any way, shape, or form. A chaotic weapon is the opposite. This is undeniable.

 

FUN FACT: Yeah, again, DGing tokens are not a typical currency. They are experience in physical form. Onyx gems can be obtained in a variety of ways, none of which are tied to skill levels, so your comparison to tokkul is asinine.

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if it takes you 10 minutes to beat someone in fog your doing something horribly HORRIBLY wrong

 

That was aimed at a comment of morningrise, and don't forget there are 2 rounds...

 

 

Yes, that's technically how it is.

 

Ask yourself though, is that how it should be?

 

Plus, I'll refer you to what I said before about the fact that earning the "ability" to wield chaotic is only a nominal restriction. It has no real power. In Dungeoneering, the levels aren't what restrict you, it's the tokens. You can say that "at x dunge you get the ability to use y", but in essence, it's meaningless.

 

That is what I'm trying to say people, with the current situation, changing the re-buy cost would just be unfair compared with the tradable items.

If you want your cls back faster, there should be things like dungeons that give more tokens but less xp, only accesible after lvl 80 or so.

id accually go for that 90% tokens 10% exp lol for a 55k exp dg it would be 5.5k tokens but if u swich it 5.5k exp and 55k tokens but it wouldnt work because tokens can be spent on exp :S =p but with the update 200k tokens wont be as hard for a higher lvl dungeoneer especcially for 120

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Yes, that's technically how it is.

 

Ask yourself though, is that how it should be?

 

Plus, I'll refer you to what I said before about the fact that earning the "ability" to wield chaotic is only a nominal restriction. It has no real power. In Dungeoneering, the levels aren't what restrict you, it's the tokens. You can say that "at x dunge you get the ability to use y", but in essence, it's meaningless.

 

That is what I'm trying to say people, with the current situation, changing the re-buy cost would just be unfair compared with the tradable items.

If you want your cls back faster, there should be things like dungeons that give more tokens but less xp, only accesible after lvl 80 or so.

 

 

No it wouldn't. Other buyable items aren't meant to be purely skill-obtained the way DG items are. There's is nothing wrong in changing Dungeoneering rewards to a system that it should have adopted in the first place.

 

Those high token-low xp dungeons sound nice, but aren't necessary if Jagex would just make a simple system fix.

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id accually go for that 90% tokens 10% exp lol for a 55k exp dg it would be 5.5k tokens but if u swich it 5.5k exp and 55k tokens but it wouldnt work because tokens can be spent on exp :S =p but with the update 200k tokens wont be as hard for a higher lvl dungeoneer especcially for 120

 

Sorry for double post.

 

Why wouldn't it work? 5.5k tokens + 55k xp. If you spent all tokens on xp, that 60.5k xp. If you took 5.5k xp and 55k tokens, then spent the tokens on xp you'd get 60.5k xp too, or am I missing something?

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